Very over glaring problem

Alchimiste1

you are literally just ignoring all valid arguments.

Caluurions gives you a 10k burst
A set that gives 500 weapon/spell damage will add about 1000 tooltip to your damage abilities.( not comparable)

Proc shouldn't be allowed to crit. To the person saying their caluurions only hits for 4-5k I don't know how that's possible since my caluurions was hitting for more than that prior to the cp rework when we got an extra 1k spell/weapon damage and prior to it being allowed to crit.

I get some people want to defend caluurions because they like using it so much, but I'm just saying the truth.
And to your remark being pver, I'm probably like top 5(pvp) stamblades on my server but guess I don't know what I'm saying.
I've lost interest in this post, people who are unbias know exactly how strong caluurion is.

OBJnoob

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

OBJnoob wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

btw caluurions proc from stealth/cloak, so saying its dodgeable is nice but too bad you can't even see the animation for it

caluurions hits for 10k+ on even well armored and mechanical good players. 15k maybe on really squishy players

Doesn’t matter if you can see the animation for it or not… it doesn’t proc from stealthing it procs from attacking, which makes you visible. But again that doesn’t matter. Because caluurion or not the number one most used defense against nbs is to roll dodge as soon as you’re attacked from stealth. And this is why caluurion probably misses tons of times. Because the best defense against it, at the exact time you need it, is also the best defense against almost every other variety of nb as well.

But this thread is sort’ve a joke anyway I think because some person is claiming to routinely x players, occasionally as many as 15, but one or two caluurion nbs can insta delete that same person? I just don’t believe anyone that good at something so hard could be bad at something so easy.

Caluurions can most certainly hit while you are invis , I don't feel like sharing why. Caluurion is a 10k + PROC that can land at the same time as when you stun someone . It is not healthy / balanced set.

with lucky rng caluurions will proc when your Suprise attack stun someone or incap them forcing them to take a 25k burst.
Like I said there is nothing that comes even close as a set to caluurions on nb I think that should be saying something. Again I'm a nb main and I'm not being bias. The truth is caluurions allows for people who . . . lets say are new/decent at stamblade to do things they would have no chance of doing without.

I mostly play no proc and I have never made for a very good nb… so I’m fully prepared to be proven wrong… just not by someone who x’s 15 people but dies to caluurion. Not by someone who has a mythical non meta build that beats meta builds but won’t share it. Not by someone who says I’m wrong but won’t bother elaborating.

Whether or not there’s a way to get caluurion to proc and work out of stealth as or alongside an opener… you yourself called it “lucky” to get it to proc off a surprise attack stun or an incap. So basically the exact situations I was talking about. Break free. Then roll dodge. It’s what you should be doing whether or not they have caluurion. And if they do the timing is perfect to dodge it.

Even as a no proc player when I do duel or play battlegrounds caluurion is like the easiest proc to see in the world. It’s basically the only proc I DO avoid.

Alchimiste1

OBJnoob wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

OBJnoob wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

btw caluurions proc from stealth/cloak, so saying its dodgeable is nice but too bad you can't even see the animation for it

caluurions hits for 10k+ on even well armored and mechanical good players. 15k maybe on really squishy players

Doesn’t matter if you can see the animation for it or not… it doesn’t proc from stealthing it procs from attacking, which makes you visible. But again that doesn’t matter. Because caluurion or not the number one most used defense against nbs is to roll dodge as soon as you’re attacked from stealth. And this is why caluurion probably misses tons of times. Because the best defense against it, at the exact time you need it, is also the best defense against almost every other variety of nb as well.

But this thread is sort’ve a joke anyway I think because some person is claiming to routinely x players, occasionally as many as 15, but one or two caluurion nbs can insta delete that same person? I just don’t believe anyone that good at something so hard could be bad at something so easy.

Caluurions can most certainly hit while you are invis , I don't feel like sharing why. Caluurion is a 10k + PROC that can land at the same time as when you stun someone . It is not healthy / balanced set.

with lucky rng caluurions will proc when your Suprise attack stun someone or incap them forcing them to take a 25k burst.
Like I said there is nothing that comes even close as a set to caluurions on nb I think that should be saying something. Again I'm a nb main and I'm not being bias. The truth is caluurions allows for people who . . . lets say are new/decent at stamblade to do things they would have no chance of doing without.

I mostly play no proc and I have never made for a very good nb… so I’m fully prepared to be proven wrong… just not by someone who x’s 15 people but dies to caluurion. Not by someone who has a mythical non meta build that beats meta builds but won’t share it. Not by someone who says I’m wrong but won’t bother elaborating.

Whether or not there’s a way to get caluurion to proc and work out of stealth as or alongside an opener… you yourself called it “lucky” to get it to proc off a surprise attack stun or an incap. So basically the exact situations I was talking about. Break free. Then roll dodge. It’s what you should be doing whether or not they have caluurion. And if they do the timing is perfect to dodge it.

Even as a no proc player when I do duel or play battlegrounds caluurion is like the easiest proc to see in the world. It’s basically the only proc I DO avoid.

No you just failed to understand, I call it lucky when caluurion doesn't proc from stealth but rather when you are going offensive. Yes I know its surprising but nb doesn't always need to be in cloak 80% of the time to fight. And to further my point you will not be able to avoid a good rng caluurion + stun combo. That to me isn't balanced mechanics.

I like nb I don't think stealth or nb needs a nerf, I think a set called caluurions needs adjusting.

DrSlaughtr

Lot of stuff up top so I'll just put my replies here.

Caluurions does NOT HIT THE TARGET while you're invisible. It procs on the light or heavy attack that crits. You have ONE second to roll dodge or block. Either will do, but you really should just roll dodge unless you are on the tanky side. Saying that it procs while you're invisible is completely wrong. The mere act of attacking someone breaks your invisibility. So please, let's stop with these fake claims. If you have video evidence, please share, and I'll be the first to say yeah, they gotta fix this. But I have NEVER attacked someone while invisible and not been revealed.

Secondly, if your tooltip for calurrions says 15k, that will not hit the recap for 15k. Even if it crits, which I'm not sure it does, because the last time they allowed procs to crit, Caluurions was the one set they blocked from it. But let's assume it does. There are several sources of mitigation that it has to go through before it actually lands. On my NB, I have never seen it hit me harder than 7k. On my magDK? 2-3k tops. What most people die to is all the other damage they weave in over 2 global cooldowns UNLESS the target is vulnerable, such as on siege, or very low health, like another NB.

But hey, let's say for sake of argument, you look at your recap and see an 8k caluurions proc. Is that any worse than an 8k dizzy? Is that anywhere than a 12k flame lash? It isn't. In fact it's less so, because I can be murdered in 3 seconds. A magDK can go around casting flame lash on everyone, critting them to death, with very little of a dent in their resources and eating every source of damage thrown at them because of absurdly overtuned heals and ridiculous sources of mitigation.

It's this simple. Run slippery. Or radiant mage light. When they can't CC you, you can immediately defend. Once they blow their load, pop a detect and kill them. Done. If you still do one of those and get killed, then I'm sorry but sometimes we fake die in a fake game. You can't come here bragging about face tanking 15 people but then complain that a NB CC'd you from behind and you died to all that damage.

Take away caluurions, fine, but you have to give us something back in order to compete at the standard level that ZOS has set forth over the years. But then players will just complain about that, and that, and that, because all they want to do is 1vX without worrying about the opposition's nightblades taking them out. The whole point of this class in PVP is to counter that playstyle. You want to be able to face tank 15 players. I want to flank you with all the extra damage and pen buffs I get from that and take you out. Them's the breaks.

Alchimiste1

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Lot of stuff up top so I'll just put my replies here.

Caluurions does NOT HIT THE TARGET while you're invisible. It procs on the light or heavy attack that crits. You have ONE second to roll dodge or block. Either will do, but you really should just roll dodge unless you are on the tanky side. Saying that it procs while you're invisible is completely wrong. The mere act of attacking someone breaks your invisibility. So please, let's stop with these fake claims. If you have video evidence, please share, and I'll be the first to say yeah, they gotta fix this. But I have NEVER attacked someone while invisible and not been revealed.

Secondly, if your tooltip for calurrions says 15k, that will not hit the recap for 15k. Even if it crits, which I'm not sure it does, because the last time they allowed procs to crit, Caluurions was the one set they blocked from it. But let's assume it does. There are several sources of mitigation that it has to go through before it actually lands. On my NB, I have never seen it hit me harder than 7k. On my magDK? 2-3k tops. What most people die to is all the other damage they weave in over 2 global cooldowns UNLESS the target is vulnerable, such as on siege, or very low health, like another NB.

But hey, let's say for sake of argument, you look at your recap and see an 8k caluurions proc. Is that any worse than an 8k dizzy? Is that anywhere than a 12k flame lash? It isn't. In fact it's less so, because I can be murdered in 3 seconds. A magDK can go around casting flame lash on everyone, critting them to death, with very little of a dent in their resources and eating every source of damage thrown at them because of absurdly overtuned heals and ridiculous sources of mitigation.

It's this simple. Run slippery. Or radiant mage light. When they can't CC you, you can immediately defend. Once they blow their load, pop a detect and kill them. Done. If you still do one of those and get killed, then I'm sorry but sometimes we fake die in a fake game. You can't come here bragging about face tanking 15 people but then complain that a NB CC'd you from behind and you died to all that damage.

Take away caluurions, fine, but you have to give us something back in order to compete at the standard level that ZOS has set forth over the years. But then players will just complain about that, and that, and that, because all they want to do is 1vX without worrying about the opposition's nightblades taking them out. The whole point of this class in PVP is to counter that playstyle. You want to be able to face tank 15 players. I want to flank you with all the extra damage and pen buffs I get from that and take you out. Them's the breaks.

are you really trying to tell people that caluurions only hits for 2-3k tops against a magdk lmao
yeah alright, you don't know what you are talking about.
this is my last post on this thread because some people really just can't fathom the idea that caluurions isn't balanced.

WaywardArgonian

I'm fairly sure I've run into the type of groups you're referring to on NA/Blackreach and the issue is the playstyle, not the builds they're using. Even if you take 15 inexperienced NBs who all run training gear, they're still likely to drop you if they ulti-dump you as a solo player. It can be a bit annoying but in the end it's just a couple of people having fun trolling other players like that.

If you want to annoy them, just roll a Nightblade yourself, slot detect pots, and pick them off one by one as they target PVE'ers. Bow gankers and full damage Magblades are the easiest classes to kill if you have a little situational awareness. That there's 15 of them is an indication that maybe not all of them are top tier players anyway.

ZOS_Hadeostry

Greetings,

As we've had to remove a few non-constructive comments due to baiting, please remember that while it’s all right to disagree or even debate with each other, provoking conflict, baiting, inciting, mocking, etc. is never acceptable in the official The Elder Scrolls Online community.

While we completely understand everyone has their own opinions, thoughts, feelings and even frustrations, we want the forums to be a civil and constructive platform for the game and its community as a whole. You can review the Community Rules here

SillyGT

It is so frustrating having this in the game. I explained what was going on to a family member that has never played a video game in their life. They response was "that is no fun, there's strategy involved" I'm fully aware eso in not a strategy game but for someone who literally has never played video games in their life they can see how unbalanced it is without even trying to understand the concept of the game.

EF321

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Caluurions does NOT HIT THE TARGET while you're invisible. It procs on the light or heavy attack that crits. You have ONE second to roll dodge or block.

Did you mean: You have ONE second to attempt to break free, and pray it works before you are dead.

DrSlaughtr

EF321 wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Caluurions does NOT HIT THE TARGET while you're invisible. It procs on the light or heavy attack that crits. You have ONE second to roll dodge or block.

Did you mean: You have ONE second to attempt to break free, and pray it works before you are dead.

You can instantly break free unless there is a desync which isn't the NB's fault. Desyncs can happen to anyone from any class. Also there is one skill that prevents the cc all together and a Champion Slot that can auto break free.

If there was no Caluurions and you died to incap, which is also easily dodged, that would be what I'd be reading complaints about.

DrSlaughtr

I can show you a screen grab of Caluurions.

DrSlaughtr

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Lot of stuff up top so I'll just put my replies here.

Caluurions does NOT HIT THE TARGET while you're invisible. It procs on the light or heavy attack that crits. You have ONE second to roll dodge or block. Either will do, but you really should just roll dodge unless you are on the tanky side. Saying that it procs while you're invisible is completely wrong. The mere act of attacking someone breaks your invisibility. So please, let's stop with these fake claims. If you have video evidence, please share, and I'll be the first to say yeah, they gotta fix this. But I have NEVER attacked someone while invisible and not been revealed.

Secondly, if your tooltip for calurrions says 15k, that will not hit the recap for 15k. Even if it crits, which I'm not sure it does, because the last time they allowed procs to crit, Caluurions was the one set they blocked from it. But let's assume it does. There are several sources of mitigation that it has to go through before it actually lands. On my NB, I have never seen it hit me harder than 7k. On my magDK? 2-3k tops. What most people die to is all the other damage they weave in over 2 global cooldowns UNLESS the target is vulnerable, such as on siege, or very low health, like another NB.

But hey, let's say for sake of argument, you look at your recap and see an 8k caluurions proc. Is that any worse than an 8k dizzy? Is that anywhere than a 12k flame lash? It isn't. In fact it's less so, because I can be murdered in 3 seconds. A magDK can go around casting flame lash on everyone, critting them to death, with very little of a dent in their resources and eating every source of damage thrown at them because of absurdly overtuned heals and ridiculous sources of mitigation.

It's this simple. Run slippery. Or radiant mage light. When they can't CC you, you can immediately defend. Once they blow their load, pop a detect and kill them. Done. If you still do one of those and get killed, then I'm sorry but sometimes we fake die in a fake game. You can't come here bragging about face tanking 15 people but then complain that a NB CC'd you from behind and you died to all that damage.

Take away caluurions, fine, but you have to give us something back in order to compete at the standard level that ZOS has set forth over the years. But then players will just complain about that, and that, and that, because all they want to do is 1vX without worrying about the opposition's nightblades taking them out. The whole point of this class in PVP is to counter that playstyle. You want to be able to face tank 15 players. I want to flank you with all the extra damage and pen buffs I get from that and take you out. Them's the breaks.

are you really trying to tell people that caluurions only hits for 2-3k tops against a magdk lmao
yeah alright, you don't know what you are talking about.
this is my last post on this thread because some people really just can't fathom the idea that caluurions isn't balanced.

For whatever reason the image uploader would not add the image. Hopefully posting an imgur link isn't against TOS. https://imgur.com/a/71xgd9s

That guy hit me ON MY NB who wears 5 light armor pieces while I was on siege, defenseless, without Major Resolve. Now, that is on the low end. Normally it gets around 5 to 6k on me. So let's please stop with this. If the tooltip is 13k, you aren't getting hit with 13k. You have Major Resolve, Armor, Battle Spirit, possibly vampire 3, possibly major protect, etc etc. Most NBs only run around 13k pen. Why aren't we complaining about my Ice Comet tooltip of 26k? My Soul Harvest tooltip is not far behind, and that fires at 70 ultimate.

Let's say you have a skill like Surprise Attack. If I look at the tooltip on my light armor build with very low spell damage, it's around 7k buffed. If I look at it on my older Stygian/Heartland build with 7k weapon damage, the tooltip pushes to just over 8k. Making the argument that running just straight damage and pen will allow my NB on his patch to compete against all the over the top heals and mitigation that exists right now is just not accurate to the current landscape. There is no amount of damage and penetration that can be added via sets, mundus and race that will allow me to fight every other class.

I HATE running Caluurions but let's not pretend like this is new. Before update 32, it was the evils of mechanical acuity. During no proc, it was our ability to stack damage and pen. It's a tale as old as time.

Please, let's just be honest here. Some players just don't want to die to NBs, and they will be upset no matter what build we use. It's unfortunate, because there have never been so many NB counters in the game as there are today. Even adding just one to your toolkit will drastically limit our ability to kill you before dying ourselves or being forced to retreat and give up persuit.

mav983

Ummm… ganking is harder right now than it had ever been. Literally, the only class in the game right now worse than Nightblade is Warden (sorry to all you Warden lovers, you have my pity). If you think Nightblades are toxic, go tower hump with the current undying DK and Templar builds. The bubble in its current form has made it to where I can’t dent templars with 8k weapon damage and 12k pen and the fossilize spam with broken cool-downs make it to where you have 0 mobility. Not to mention the OP heals.

Alchimiste1

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Lot of stuff up top so I'll just put my replies here.

Caluurions does NOT HIT THE TARGET while you're invisible. It procs on the light or heavy attack that crits. You have ONE second to roll dodge or block. Either will do, but you really should just roll dodge unless you are on the tanky side. Saying that it procs while you're invisible is completely wrong. The mere act of attacking someone breaks your invisibility. So please, let's stop with these fake claims. If you have video evidence, please share, and I'll be the first to say yeah, they gotta fix this. But I have NEVER attacked someone while invisible and not been revealed.

Secondly, if your tooltip for calurrions says 15k, that will not hit the recap for 15k. Even if it crits, which I'm not sure it does, because the last time they allowed procs to crit, Caluurions was the one set they blocked from it. But let's assume it does. There are several sources of mitigation that it has to go through before it actually lands. On my NB, I have never seen it hit me harder than 7k. On my magDK? 2-3k tops. What most people die to is all the other damage they weave in over 2 global cooldowns UNLESS the target is vulnerable, such as on siege, or very low health, like another NB.

But hey, let's say for sake of argument, you look at your recap and see an 8k caluurions proc. Is that any worse than an 8k dizzy? Is that anywhere than a 12k flame lash? It isn't. In fact it's less so, because I can be murdered in 3 seconds. A magDK can go around casting flame lash on everyone, critting them to death, with very little of a dent in their resources and eating every source of damage thrown at them because of absurdly overtuned heals and ridiculous sources of mitigation.

It's this simple. Run slippery. Or radiant mage light. When they can't CC you, you can immediately defend. Once they blow their load, pop a detect and kill them. Done. If you still do one of those and get killed, then I'm sorry but sometimes we fake die in a fake game. You can't come here bragging about face tanking 15 people but then complain that a NB CC'd you from behind and you died to all that damage.

Take away caluurions, fine, but you have to give us something back in order to compete at the standard level that ZOS has set forth over the years. But then players will just complain about that, and that, and that, because all they want to do is 1vX without worrying about the opposition's nightblades taking them out. The whole point of this class in PVP is to counter that playstyle. You want to be able to face tank 15 players. I want to flank you with all the extra damage and pen buffs I get from that and take you out. Them's the breaks.

are you really trying to tell people that caluurions only hits for 2-3k tops against a magdk lmao
yeah alright, you don't know what you are talking about.
this is my last post on this thread because some people really just can't fathom the idea that caluurions isn't balanced.

For whatever reason the image uploader would not add the image. Hopefully posting an imgur link isn't against TOS. https://imgur.com/a/71xgd9s

That guy hit me ON MY NB who wears 5 light armor pieces while I was on siege, defenseless, without Major Resolve. Now, that is on the low end. Normally it gets around 5 to 6k on me. So let's please stop with this. If the tooltip is 13k, you aren't getting hit with 13k. You have Major Resolve, Armor, Battle Spirit, possibly vampire 3, possibly major protect, etc etc. Most NBs only run around 13k pen. Why aren't we complaining about my Ice Comet tooltip of 26k? My Soul Harvest tooltip is not far behind, and that fires at 70 ultimate.

Let's say you have a skill like Surprise Attack. If I look at the tooltip on my light armor build with very low spell damage, it's around 7k buffed. If I look at it on my older Stygian/Heartland build with 7k weapon damage, the tooltip pushes to just over 8k. Making the argument that running just straight damage and pen will allow my NB on his patch to compete against all the over the top heals and mitigation that exists right now is just not accurate to the current landscape. There is no amount of damage and penetration that can be added via sets, mundus and race that will allow me to fight every other class.

I HATE running Caluurions but let's not pretend like this is new. Before update 32, it was the evils of mechanical acuity. During no proc, it was our ability to stack damage and pen. It's a tale as old as time.

Please, let's just be honest here. Some players just don't want to die to NBs, and they will be upset no matter what build we use. It's unfortunate, because there have never been so many NB counters in the game as there are today. Even adding just one to your toolkit will drastically limit our ability to kill you before dying ourselves or being forced to retreat and give up persuit.

what does one picture of you dying to a 3.6k caluurion prove ? I could send you multiple screenshots of caluurion hitting for over 10k, honestly just save me the time and go look at stamnbs who are good. Go watch some pelican videos or even pain in the axe when he's on nb. Im pretty sure within the first 5 minutes of actual combat you'll see a big caluurion proc.

you're using light armor on a stamblade ? listen I don't know what type of inefficient build you are using but my caluurions tooltip when I played was probably around 19k. yes obviously it doesn't hit for 19k because of pvp mitigation but you're forgetting that it can also crit so yes it can easily hit for 10k+.

I don't know why you are putting words in my mouth. I have never said that nb with caluurions is the best thing in cyrodiil. Caluurions is something that makes for not fun game mechanics. Same with templar having accessing to an unblockable CC from range that can be combo'd with a meteor. Because mechanics like that are unavoidable no skill involved.

you also didn't address any of my points, name one set that comes close to caluurions for nb ?

Side note; caluurions got a delay timer , I wonder what happens if you go into cloak after having triggered it?

ZOS_GregoryV

Greetings all!

After review, we have decided to close this thread due to Flaming. Flaming is a violation of the Community Rules, and is stated as follows:

• Flaming: It’s okay to disagree and debate on the official ESO forums, but we do ask that you keep all disagreements civil, constructive, and on-topic. If a discussion gets heated and turns into a debate, remember that you should stick to debating the post and/or thread topic. It is never appropriate to resort to personal comments or jabs about those participating in the thread discussion.

If there may be any questions in regards to the rules, please take a few moments to review them here.

Thank you for your understanding,
-Greg-