Crown selling need a proper system.

Fhritz

I think ZoS need to implement a proper crown/gold exchange system, or at least a "Gift w/ CoD" . Whether you are for or against crown selling, we can all agree that this "economy" is authorized but not regulated (the "buyer beware" rule) , and have a GREAT influence on inflation and trading, so I think making a flat exchange value or making QoL improvements for this kind of exchange is needed!

Beilin_Balreis_Colcan

Fhritz wrote: »

I think ZoS need to implement a proper crown/gold exchange system, or at least a "Gift w/ CoD" . Whether you are for or against crown selling, we can all agree that this "economy" is authorized but not regulated (the "buyer beware" rule) , and have a GREAT influence on inflation and trading, so I think making a flat exchange value or making QoL improvements for this kind of exchange is needed!

The World Crown Exchange channel on Discord is good for gold/crown exchanges, with various checks and rules to cut down on cheating. I've only used it once, but it worked well enough.

Arunei

vsrs_au wrote: »

Fhritz wrote: »

I think ZoS need to implement a proper crown/gold exchange system, or at least a "Gift w/ CoD" . Whether you are for or against crown selling, we can all agree that this "economy" is authorized but not regulated (the "buyer beware" rule) , and have a GREAT influence on inflation and trading, so I think making a flat exchange value or making QoL improvements for this kind of exchange is needed!

The World Crown Exchange channel on Discord is good for gold/crown exchanges, with various checks and rules to cut down on cheating. I've only used it once, but it worked well enough.

Those prices are also often much higher than people selling them straight because of that security. Even then, people can still flake out, and a lot of people don't use social media, including Discord, for any number of personal reasons. It would be easier and safer for everyone if ZOS would just make an official way of selling Crowns, but then if they did they'd have to actively regulate it and take responsibility for anyone that still did get scammed. As it is now they don't have to do that because the current "system" is unofficial.

bmnoble

Just make it so you can list your crowns in guild stores, let the buyer spend them on what they want, cut the unnecessary step of gifting the item out of the process completely.

Let gifting be just that gifting stuff to friends.

kargen27

bmnoble wrote: »

Just make it so you can list your crowns in guild stores, let the buyer spend them on what they want, cut the unnecessary step of gifting the item out of the process completely.

Let gifting be just that gifting stuff to friends.

Crowns are not in game currency. They are tied to your account outside the game. Not sure creating a currency in game that draws from account outside of game is an easy task.

bmnoble

kargen27 wrote: »

bmnoble wrote: »

Just make it so you can list your crowns in guild stores, let the buyer spend them on what they want, cut the unnecessary step of gifting the item out of the process completely.

Let gifting be just that gifting stuff to friends.

Crowns are not in game currency. They are tied to your account outside the game. Not sure creating a currency in game that draws from account outside of game is an easy task.

Just add a bunch of vouchers equal to different values of crowns to the crown store, you buy the voucher you list it on the guild store and when used by the buyer adds the number of crowns to the players account or if the seller changes their mind they can use the voucher themselves to return the crowns to their account.

Or make it so you have a third purchase option in the crown store instead of buying it for your self, gifting it, a buy unbound option so you can list the items from the crown store in guild traders.

Avishag

vsrs_au wrote: »

Fhritz wrote: »

I think ZoS need to implement a proper crown/gold exchange system, or at least a "Gift w/ CoD" . Whether you are for or against crown selling, we can all agree that this "economy" is authorized but not regulated (the "buyer beware" rule) , and have a GREAT influence on inflation and trading, so I think making a flat exchange value or making QoL improvements for this kind of exchange is needed!

The World Crown Exchange channel on Discord is good for gold/crown exchanges, with various checks and rules to cut down on cheating. I've only used it once, but it worked well enough.

I am trying to buy a Crow merchant assistant, since december, on the ONLY still working Crown discord, that I know. And without any success.. Crown sellers are making deals, with around 1% of those flooding the channel, with requests, day and night. Personally, I would be very happy with an in-game system, regulated by Zos!

Techwolf_Lupindo

Fhritz wrote: »

Whether you are for or against crown selling, we can all agree that this "economy" is authorized but not regulated (the "buyer beware" rule) , and have a GREAT influence on inflation and trading, so I think making a flat exchange value or making QoL improvements for this kind of exchange is needed!

When crown gifting came out, not sure when, but ZoS stated it was allowed to gold extange for it. In about a month or two, the encomity of the gold sellers bots was destroyed by a lot. I personally think it was of the most effective ways to get rid of gold farming bots.

I think a good improvement is to allow COD on crown items. But leave it up to the market to set rates. With the "buyer beware" out of the equation, the rates may improve.

zaria

Arunei wrote: »

vsrs_au wrote: »

Fhritz wrote: »

I think ZoS need to implement a proper crown/gold exchange system, or at least a "Gift w/ CoD" . Whether you are for or against crown selling, we can all agree that this "economy" is authorized but not regulated (the "buyer beware" rule) , and have a GREAT influence on inflation and trading, so I think making a flat exchange value or making QoL improvements for this kind of exchange is needed!

The World Crown Exchange channel on Discord is good for gold/crown exchanges, with various checks and rules to cut down on cheating. I've only used it once, but it worked well enough.

Those prices are also often much higher than people selling them straight because of that security. Even then, people can still flake out, and a lot of people don't use social media, including Discord, for any number of personal reasons. It would be easier and safer for everyone if ZOS would just make an official way of selling Crowns, but then if they did they'd have to actively regulate it and take responsibility for anyone that still did get scammed. As it is now they don't have to do that because the current "system" is unofficial.

Yes it kind of work, used systems like this, but its sub optimal. You have to set off time for them to find an seller and then meet up. The barrier for becoming an seller is much higher.
Easiest way to solve this is to have the crown store sell an box with crowns, this can be sold in guild stores, traded or gifted.
Then used it will give the crowns to the account.

Beilin_Balreis_Colcan

Arunei wrote: »

vsrs_au wrote: »

Fhritz wrote: »

I think ZoS need to implement a proper crown/gold exchange system, or at least a "Gift w/ CoD" . Whether you are for or against crown selling, we can all agree that this "economy" is authorized but not regulated (the "buyer beware" rule) , and have a GREAT influence on inflation and trading, so I think making a flat exchange value or making QoL improvements for this kind of exchange is needed!

The World Crown Exchange channel on Discord is good for gold/crown exchanges, with various checks and rules to cut down on cheating. I've only used it once, but it worked well enough.

Those prices are also often much higher than people selling them straight because of that security. Even then, people can still flake out, and a lot of people don't use social media, including Discord, for any number of personal reasons. It would be easier and safer for everyone if ZOS would just make an official way of selling Crowns, but then if they did they'd have to actively regulate it and take responsibility for anyone that still did get scammed. As it is now they don't have to do that because the current "system" is unofficial.

I never claimed it was perfect. The OP was lamenting the lack of a gold/crown exchange, and this is one option. Also, I'm unsure that ZOS can even do anything about this. The legal implications of implementing an in-game exchange between game currency (gold) and another currency (crowns) paid for by real-world money would be interesting.

FluffWit

Apparently WOW has a system for it. You buy a token for the item and trade that. So if tell you I want Proudspire Manor- (the house that's on sale for 4800 crowns right now) you buy a token for it for 4800 crowns.

If I don't show up with the cash you can consume it yourself, trade it directly with someone else, or list it in a guild store.

Simple. Almost entirely eliminates scamming. We need it.

Sarannah

This would make the game pay-to-win, as there would be a way to directly buy gold. The fact that ZOS allows crownselling/buying, does not mean they should do anything with it. Technically I do not think crownselling is even allowed through the TOS.

I do understand where the idea is coming from though, and scammers are terrible. Scammers should all be banned in my opinion. But this would be a PR disaster for an MMO where some (new) players already can't differentiate the crownstore from pay-to-win. And it is better for ZOS to avoid such bad PR. (Not to mention the fallout when someone would buy gold, and notice it would have been cheaper on another guildtrader. Players would feel bad for losing real money, and would ask for transactions to be reversed.)

proprio.meb16_ESO

Its just not gonna happen.

Crowns are rl money, ingame gold is not. As long as there's a separation there are not legal issues.

The crown-gold exchange (you actually receive a gift, not crowns - this is a fundamental part of the bargain) is a grey zone zos may close an eye on... but cannot endorse in any way.

Arunei

Sarannah wrote: »

This would make the game pay-to-win, as there would be a way to directly buy gold. The fact that ZOS allows crownselling/buying, does not mean they should do anything with it. Technically I do not think crownselling is even allowed through the TOS.

I do understand where the idea is coming from though, and scammers are terrible. Scammers should all be banned in my opinion. But this would be a PR disaster for an MMO where some (new) players already can't differentiate the crownstore from pay-to-win. And it is better for ZOS to avoid such bad PR. (Not to mention the fallout when someone would buy gold, and notice it would have been cheaper on another guildtrader. Players would feel bad for losing real money, and would ask for transactions to be reversed.)

Gina herself has said selling Crowns is fine because it's exchanging one in-game currency for another. If it was against the ToS she wouldn't have said it's fine and people wouldn't do it so openly that they make threads asking for it to actually be regulated.

Also nothing about selling Crowns is or would be pay to win. There's nothing in the CS that gives you a large advantage over those who don't buy it and can ONLY be obtained from the CS. Everything in there is either cosmetic or convenience. And even if it was, selling Crowns being official wouldn't be what would make it so, it would be so regardless.

Paulytnz

I agree it needs to be finally added. They have it in Guildwars 2 and it works perfectly fine there. A couple of advantages I can see happening if this is added:

1 - Crown sellers might feel safer about selling their crowns and sell more. In fact you may get more people now interested in doing this since they are protected more - thus more crown sales for ZOS.

2 - For buyers, now you can buy crowns and simply add them to YOUR stack. No more needing to find the right seller selling the right amount you need. For example if I want to buy a new house that is for sale for 14k crowns and I have say 10k crowns myself, I don't need to buy the full 14k off someone, I can now simply buy just 4k worth and buy that house.

Who wouldn't want these bonuses in the game?

ArchangelIsraphel

FluffWit wrote: »

Apparently WOW has a system for it. You buy a token for the item and trade that. So if tell you I want Proudspire Manor- (the house that's on sale for 4800 crowns right now) you buy a token for it for 4800 crowns.

If I don't show up with the cash you can consume it yourself, trade it directly with someone else, or list it in a guild store.

Simple. Almost entirely eliminates scamming. We need it.

Blade x Soul also had a system for it, where you could directly put your gold up for trade and people would buy it with their premium currency. You never had to even speak to a player or even know who they were, the interface automated it entirely.

proprio.meb16_ESO

Arunei wrote: »

Gina herself has said selling Crowns is fine because it's exchanging one in-game currency for another.

Not doubting your word, but out of pure curiosity, when and where did she say that?
I really cant recall such a statement... on the opposing hand, i've seen about a million threads like this one pop up and die without anything being done. Maybe i'm wrongly assuming it's something zos is not willing to do, but i think i've never read an official statement about it in one direction or the other.

FaylenSol

bmnoble wrote: »

Just add a bunch of vouchers equal to different values of crowns to the crown store, you buy the voucher you list it on the guild store and when used by the buyer adds the number of crowns to the players account or if the seller changes their mind they can use the voucher themselves to return the crowns to their account.

Or make it so you have a third purchase option in the crown store instead of buying it for your self, gifting it, a buy unbound option so you can list the items from the crown store in guild traders.

This basically. Zenimax just needs to look at the Bond system Runescape has and copy that. Just put the "Bond" in the Crown Store as an item that is tradeable and can be consumed for Crowns. Bonus points if it can be consumed for ESO+ (like 15 days worth).

I would seriously not complain if Zenimax just straight up ripped the Bond system from Runescape off. Being able to pay for ESO+ or Crowns via Gold in an official way? Yes please.

Lysette

The easiest would be being able to convert a certain amount of crowns into a single tradable token, which can be used in the guild trader system and once bought be reconverted into actual crowns. The concurrence to others offering crowns would as well help to stabilize the value resp. price of crowns. Furthermore this would provide information about the amount of crowns traded and at which prices (ok, using trading add-ons that is). This would inject gold which collected dust before into the market though, which is likely to raise the price of crowns until it will stabilize somewhere.

Norgh

I suspect they would just turn off gifting rather go through the process to create a system for trading.

Lysette

Norgh wrote: »

I suspect they would just turn off gifting rather go through the process to create a system for trading.

Why would they - this system is actually there to gift things to friends without getting something in return but a thank you.

It would actually make money for ZOS - crowns have to be bought by someone first to be traded. If there is s secure system to do that a lot more would buy crowns and convert them into gold, that they do not have to work for gold, but can just enjoy the game without this hassle. And these crowns are used up by those buying them - so to have a constant influx of crowns, people have to buy more crowns, which benefits ZOS - this worked very well in other games and gave companies implementing such systems an increase in sales.

I would certainly sell crowns, if there would be a secure system to do that - I do not like having to work for gold in the game. There are a bunch of housing items I would really like, but I lack the gold to buy those. With such a system I could just spend some real world money and make me and those selling this furniture happy - and as well those getting my crowns.

Treeshka

The easiest solution would be making majority of items in the Crown Store act like a tradable item between players. Lets say if i buy a costume from Crown Store with my own Crowns, it should come to my inventory and i can decide whether to use it on my own account or sell it to other players via trading or putting it up to Guild Stores. This way i can ensure that i will not get scammed and with guild trading extra gold will be taken from the game, helping with the inflation.

Meiox

Guild Wars 2 has a nice system, where the exchange rate depends on supply/demand

ZiggyTStardust

I remember Rich talking about it when he was streaming once. I beleive the reason they don't have it was legal concerns. He acknowledged that Guilds Wars 2 have one but he didn't know the specific legalities

Arunei

proprio.meb16_ESO wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

Gina herself has said selling Crowns is fine because it's exchanging one in-game currency for another.

Not doubting your word, but out of pure curiosity, when and where did she say that?
I really cant recall such a statement... on the opposing hand, i've seen about a million threads like this one pop up and die without anything being done. Maybe i'm wrongly assuming it's something zos is not willing to do, but i think i've never read an official statement about it in one direction or the other.

My wording was a bit off because it's been years and my memory is terrible, but here are the responses about it:

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote:

To clarify, trading an in-game item for other in-game items is allowed; trading in-game items for real-world money or other out-of-game items is strictly prohibited.

From here

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote:

A Crown Store item is considered an in-game item.

From here

Lysette

ZiggyTStardust wrote: »

I remember Rich talking about it when he was streaming once. I beleive the reason they don't have it was legal concerns. He acknowledged that Guilds Wars 2 have one but he didn't know the specific legalities

Well, these concerns can be dropped, because a lot of gaming companies have systems like that - take EVE for example, PLEX is a service token (pilot license extension), which can be used for subscription or to pay for special services like character transfer between accounts and such. They are tradable - this is legal and in use for many years already. One side is buying them with real world money to get ingame currency by selling them and the other side either to pay their subscription with PLEX or to reward corp members with subscription time this way or to simply keep wealth in this easily convertible form.

I guess it is obvious that this way long term players are always subscribed, but rarely ever pay for subscription with real world money, but buy those PLEX from other players who need the cash with ingame currency. And character transfer between accounts paid for with PLEX can as well happen between accounts of different players - very flexible system with a safe way to even sell a complete character. Skills are tradable as well in EVE - imagine you could sell your overflowing CP to other players, wouldn't that be great?

The win for the company is that this way as well those players, who would normally not pay for subscription are as well subscribed, because they buy those PLEX from the market, for which another player has paid real world money. Ergo a lot more subscriptions paid for for the company as well from those who would normally not pay for a subscription. It is win for everybody. And these players need PLEX every month, so there is a steady stream of demand for it - perfect system.

proprio.meb16_ESO

Arunei wrote: »

proprio.meb16_ESO wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

Gina herself has said selling Crowns is fine because it's exchanging one in-game currency for another.

Not doubting your word, but out of pure curiosity, when and where did she say that?
I really cant recall such a statement... on the opposing hand, i've seen about a million threads like this one pop up and die without anything being done. Maybe i'm wrongly assuming it's something zos is not willing to do, but i think i've never read an official statement about it in one direction or the other.

My wording was a bit off because it's been years and my memory is terrible, but here are the responses about it:

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote:

To clarify, trading an in-game item for other in-game items is allowed; trading in-game items for real-world money or other out-of-game items is strictly prohibited.

From here

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote:

A Crown Store item is considered an in-game item.

From here

Thanks a lot for the links and the kind answer

I'm still convinced the one outlined is a deliberate grey zone (due to legal reason) which zos wont make more clear anytime soon (if ever), and therefore no official exchange system will ever be made.

But youre totally right. She indeed agreed, indirectly, that trading crowns for gold is allowed.

Lysette

proprio.meb16_ESO wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

proprio.meb16_ESO wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

Gina herself has said selling Crowns is fine because it's exchanging one in-game currency for another.

Not doubting your word, but out of pure curiosity, when and where did she say that?
I really cant recall such a statement... on the opposing hand, i've seen about a million threads like this one pop up and die without anything being done. Maybe i'm wrongly assuming it's something zos is not willing to do, but i think i've never read an official statement about it in one direction or the other.

My wording was a bit off because it's been years and my memory is terrible, but here are the responses about it:

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote:

To clarify, trading an in-game item for other in-game items is allowed; trading in-game items for real-world money or other out-of-game items is strictly prohibited.

From here

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote:

A Crown Store item is considered an in-game item.

From here

Thanks a lot for the links and the kind answer

I'm still convinced the one outlined is a deliberate grey zone (due to legal reason) which zos wont make more clear anytime soon (if ever), and therefore no official exchange system will ever be made.

But youre totally right. She indeed agreed, indirectly, that trading crowns for gold is allowed.

It is not really a trade this way - those are 2 gifting operations - in a trade you could complain, if one side is not fulfilling his/her obligation, but in ESO you cannot - if the other side is not fulfilling what he/she promised, you got scammed and that's it. There is no security in this and that is why it would be better to have a secure trading system in place.

Gaeliannas

The can't really sell "Crown Tokens" and allow them to be sold in game on Traders, because you buy them with real world $$$, and they tax most in-game sales, which puts them in a weird legal position I believe. Also, if the token was somehow stolen in game, guild bank theft, etc... it would be consider a federal/international crime in most countries and depending on the amount involved, could be a very serious one. Never mind how it could be used to launder real world money.

zaria

Gaeliannas wrote: »

The can't really sell "Crown Tokens" and allow them to be sold in game on Traders, because you buy them with real world $$$, and they tax most in-game sales, which puts them in a weird legal position I believe. Also, if the token was somehow stolen in game, guild bank theft, etc... it would be consider a federal/international crime in most countries and depending on the amount involved, could be a very serious one. Never mind how it could be used to launder real world money.

How is this different from the current gifting system where you have an far larger chance of getting scammed.
They tax an gold transaction then sold in an guild store as its an gold transaction once you have both the crown box in the crown store

Lysette

Gaeliannas wrote: »

The can't really sell "Crown Tokens" and allow them to be sold in game on Traders, because you buy them with real world $$$, and they tax most in-game sales, which puts them in a weird legal position I believe. Also, if the token was somehow stolen in game, guild bank theft, etc... it would be consider a federal/international crime in most countries and depending on the amount involved, could be a very serious one. Never mind how it could be used to launder real world money.

Like Gina said, crowns are ingame tokens - this would all not be a sale, but a transaction with ingame tokens. Nothing of that is a real world trade and is therefore not something the legal system is concerned with. Nothing of that can be converted into real dollars as well, so the money laundry aspect is not given as well. Not that it would actually be a problem, Second Life for example has the ability to convert Linden Dollars, the ingame currency, back into real world dollars - but those are verified accounts where the owner of the account is a known person and the income from that is taxed in real life. This is all legally possible, one just has to want to do it, and then a way can be found to do it.

Stealing ingame tokens is not a real world crime either - in EVE you murder people for their stuff all the time, corp asset will get stolen by fraudulent members and stuff like that is very common there - none of that is a real world crime - it is just gameplay. EVE is around for nearly 2 decades - about 19 years - if it would be a legal problem, they wouldn't be there anymore.