Werewolves and Endgame PvE

Jaraal

DigiAngel wrote: »

I'm glad I stumbled on this thread....I just managed to get (pretty much by accident, so I didn't grind for it) the Shapeshifter's Chain. After reading this...and not seeing used in practically ANY build online..guess I'll just skip the WW experiment.

Yeah, all you have to do is look at how few werewolves there are in the game to know it's not a meta build in any form. Plus the fact that if you build for ww strengths, you are at a disadvantage when not a wolf. And the biggest disadvantage for them is that they have no ultimate to use while transformed, and neither can they generate any. There wouldn't be constant talk of a toggle if we could build ultimate while fighting, like everybody else in the game can.

Vevvev

Jaraal wrote: »

DigiAngel wrote: »

I'm glad I stumbled on this thread....I just managed to get (pretty much by accident, so I didn't grind for it) the Shapeshifter's Chain. After reading this...and not seeing used in practically ANY build online..guess I'll just skip the WW experiment.

Yeah, all you have to do is look at how few werewolves there are in the game to know it's not a meta build in any form. Plus the fact that if you build for ww strengths, you are at a disadvantage when not a wolf. And the biggest disadvantage for them is that they have no ultimate to use while transformed, and neither can they generate any. There wouldn't be constant talk of a toggle if we could build ultimate while fighting, like everybody else in the game can.

That not able to generate ultimate while transformed also plagues Vampires and Necromancers. Probably the most annoying feature of transformation abilities in this game -.-

Shagreth

Vevvev wrote: »

That not able to generate ultimate while transformed also plagues Vampires and Necromancers. Probably the most annoying feature of transformation abilities in this game -.-

Yeah, that just boggles my mind. I still think a toggle would be better, with a separate feeding system. Seeing how infrequent changes to vampires and werewolves are -- my guess is that we 'may' see something significant in 2 or 3 years.

CP5

Honestly it would be nice if there was incentive to use alternate forms, perhaps some sort of buff after dropping form, encouraging you to use it even if not at all times but at least engaging with it outside the current 'all or nothing' approach.

wolfie1.0.

Imo zos should have or should just make vamps and werewolves their own classes.

Techwolf_Lupindo

ankerous wrote: »

I don't know if it still works the same but I'll test tonight but I absolutely guarantee that it at least did work because the WW guild I was in all used them and we did multiple trials while in WW mode almost the entire time even when we had to explain mechanics to people new to the trial.

Are there any active werewolf PvE guilds left on PC NA?

If you have "Call of the Pack" werewolf passive skill maxed out, in a group of two or more werewolves in werewolf form, you can wait till the timer gets down to 20%, use a ravage health potion and the timer will slowing increase to max. If single, you have to use it when timer is max and the ravage health potion will extend the total time in werewolf form out of combat for minutes. However, it will slowly decrease as the single werewolf recovery passive is just equal to the countdown.

I used this trick last week. So it still works. Just make sure you do not have the "Snakeblood" passive from the Alchemy crafting skill line. It reduce the duration of negative effects of potions and that you do not want as that skill passive will reduce that ravage health potion duration to seconds or less.

ankerous

Techwolf_Lupindo wrote: »

Are there any active werewolf PvE guilds left on PC NA?

If you have "Call of the Pack" werewolf passive skill maxed out, in a group of two or more werewolves in werewolf form, you can wait till the timer gets down to 20%, use a ravage health potion and the timer will slowing increase to max. If single, you have to use it when timer is max and the ravage health potion will extend the total time in werewolf form out of combat for minutes. However, it will slowly decrease as the single werewolf recovery passive is just equal to the countdown.

I used this trick last week. So it still works. Just make sure you do not have the "Snakeblood" passive from the Alchemy crafting skill line. It reduce the duration of negative effects of potions and that you do not want as that skill passive will reduce that ravage health potion duration to seconds or less.

Glad to hear it still works as I was thinking about doing at least a WW again for solo content. I just couldn't remember the name of the passive offhand. I never used Call of the Pack but I had gotten pretty adept at using the potions to sustain form for a long time anyway.

p00tx

Shagreth wrote: »

So, vampires clearly have no place in vet trials, probably the same can be said for werewolves. I guess the only way for someone to be allowed to run WW in a trial would be to go with a static group of friends. Pack leader seems to be the only truly significant thing they bring to the table but that can be replaced by a certain set. Am I missing anything?

It's a little sad that both (vampire and ww) skill-lines are (probably) deliberately being kept out of PvE, they should, at the very least, be able to adequately replace X role if need be, but probably not be top tier since that would 'force' players to be one.

@ZOS_Kevin something to consider perhaps, maybe both lines could do with a minor rework to finally have a place in 'competitive' play.

If you enjoy werewolf at all, I would reconsider asking this. They have a habit of being invariably heavy handed when fulfilling requests to buff a class or subclass. Then, once they see it being incredibly successful in content, they nerf it into near or total uselessness.

Jaraal

ankerous wrote: »

Techwolf_Lupindo wrote: »

Are there any active werewolf PvE guilds left on PC NA?

If you have "Call of the Pack" werewolf passive skill maxed out, in a group of two or more werewolves in werewolf form, you can wait till the timer gets down to 20%, use a ravage health potion and the timer will slowing increase to max. If single, you have to use it when timer is max and the ravage health potion will extend the total time in werewolf form out of combat for minutes. However, it will slowly decrease as the single werewolf recovery passive is just equal to the countdown.

I used this trick last week. So it still works. Just make sure you do not have the "Snakeblood" passive from the Alchemy crafting skill line. It reduce the duration of negative effects of potions and that you do not want as that skill passive will reduce that ravage health potion duration to seconds or less.

Glad to hear it still works as I was thinking about doing at least a WW again for solo content. I just couldn't remember the name of the passive offhand. I never used Call of the Pack but I had gotten pretty adept at using the potions to sustain form for a long time anyway.

Yeah TBH there'd probably be zero werewolves in game without potions. They are the only thing keeping the playstyle alive at this point.

FluffWit

In pvp Werewolfs are still insanely strong. I'm friends with two of the best Xers on my server and it's just absurd watching what they do. I tried the poison thing and it's pretty hilarious- was in Cyrodiil in werewolf form for like 90 minutes straight because of that.

Anyways point is how do you buff them up for end game pve without making them even more powerful in pvp?

Shagreth

p00tx wrote: »

If you enjoy werewolf at all, I would reconsider asking this. They have a habit of being invariably heavy handed when fulfilling requests to buff a class or subclass. Then, once they see it being incredibly successful in content, they nerf it into near or total uselessness.

I've been around enough to know that this is the vicious cycle of mmorpg's, it can't be helped. Then, if lucky -- someone will have a great idea and voila, the class is fixed, until it's not again. It's rather cynical to think like that, that's like asking for the game to stay in beta state because X change might break it instead of improving it. I know, a somewhat hyperbolic example, but still, I stand my ground.

p00tx

FluffWit wrote: »

In pvp Werewolfs are still insanely strong. I'm friends with two of the best Xers on my server and it's just absurd watching what they do. I tried the poison thing and it's pretty hilarious- was in Cyrodiil in werewolf form for like 90 minutes straight because of that.

Anyways point is how do you buff them up for end game pve without making them even more powerful in pvp?

Change some of of their skill morphs to scale differently against dungeon/trial bosses than they do against players. They've been doing this with sets since the advent of minor slayer.

Shagreth

FluffWit wrote: »

In pvp Werewolfs are still insanely strong. I'm friends with two of the best Xers on my server and it's just absurd watching what they do. I tried the poison thing and it's pretty hilarious- was in Cyrodiil in werewolf form for like 90 minutes straight because of that.

Anyways point is how do you buff them up for end game pve without making them even more powerful in pvp?

Hidden modifier? Minus X% against players, not sure if ZOS does this though. Also, werewolves are nothing special in the hands of the average player in PvP. Sure, someone extremely proficient is going to do wonders with them, but they shouldn't be balancing around people like them. Sadly they do, more often than not. Also, in the case of werewolves, it's mostly people not knowing how to play against them, thus some may have the idea that they're OP.

CP5

Shagreth wrote: »

FluffWit wrote: »

In pvp Werewolfs are still insanely strong. I'm friends with two of the best Xers on my server and it's just absurd watching what they do. I tried the poison thing and it's pretty hilarious- was in Cyrodiil in werewolf form for like 90 minutes straight because of that.

Anyways point is how do you buff them up for end game pve without making them even more powerful in pvp?

Hidden modifier? Minus X% against players, not sure if ZOS does this though. Also, werewolves are nothing special in the hands of the average player in PvP. Sure, someone extremely proficient is going to do wonders with them, but they shouldn't be balancing around people like them. Sadly they do, more often than not. Also, in the case of werewolves, it's mostly people not knowing how to play against them, thus some may have the idea that they're OP.

Exactly, a skilled pvper can make anything look overpowered, but an average pvper as a werewolf is dead meat.

NeeScrolls

Techwolf_Lupindo wrote: »

Are there any active werewolf PvE guilds left on PC NA? .

i ran into (like literally RAN INTO lol ) a group of WW's in Imperial City recently and...well...let's just say they didn't feel very "underpowered" to me & my corpse.

kringled_1

That could well be just a function of numbers. I'm pretty squishy in IC but I don't usually find werewolves a huge threat one at a time (there's a few players that are exceptions).

Ryuvain

Still play both werewolf and vampire, but at least vamps can do any content.

Still cant do werewolf healer. And werewolf tank requires you to sacrifice a set just to be able to taunt, which sucks.

Still want to be able to play as vampire lords and werewolf behemoths, even if they were just a temporary ultimate or something. Both vamps and werewolves need updates, moreso werewolves.

Mostly play this game for khajiit, argonians, werewolves, and vampires. So ANY update or additions would be great. These things are what make eso stand out from other mmos imo.

Jaraal

Ryuvain wrote: »

Still cant do werewolf healer. And werewolf tank requires you to sacrifice a set just to be able to taunt, which sucks.

Werewolves are also handicapped because they don't have access to weapon passives, nor are they able to cleanse/purge harmful effects like any other player in the game can. They also take increased damage from certain sources that other classes do not. They also can't use siege weapons, even though they can somehow use doorknobs and whatnot with their beefy mitts. Makes no sense.

Astrid

Shagreth wrote: »

So, vampires clearly have no place in vet trials, probably the same can be said for werewolves. I guess the only way for someone to be allowed to run WW in a trial would be to go with a static group of friends. Pack leader seems to be the only truly significant thing they bring to the table but that can be replaced by a certain set. Am I missing anything?

It's a little sad that both (vampire and ww) skill-lines are (probably) deliberately being kept out of PvE, they should, at the very least, be able to adequately replace X role if need be, but probably not be top tier since that would 'force' players to be one.

@ZOS_Kevin something to consider perhaps, maybe both lines could do with a minor rework to finally have a place in 'competitive' play.

Vampires absolutely do have a place in endgame trials, just not necessarily the way you think they do. Toggle on magplar can pull some absolutely disgusting dps.

WW is a PvP/Rp thing tbh.

Jaraal

CP5 wrote: »

Honestly it would be nice if there was incentive to use alternate forms, perhaps some sort of buff after dropping form, encouraging you to use it even if not at all times but at least engaging with it outside the current 'all or nothing' approach.

They should allow some sort of customizations. Player characters have thousands of combinations of looks, whereas werewolves can be either black or white. And it annoys me that my female characters have the ubiquitous male identifying visual cues of the current ww model.

Shagreth

Jaraal wrote: »

[They should allow some sort of customizations. Player characters have thousands of combinations of looks, whereas werewolves can be either black or white. And it annoys me that my female characters have the ubiquitous male identifying visual cues of the current ww model.

Some customization for the werewolf form would indeed be nice, same for the Vampire Scion. I'd argue that our characters models in general could do with a nice touch-up (have you seen the toes? stuff of nightmares) but yeah, that's for another topic.

CP5

This is the updated model, this comparison shot is from Senk3tsu back in 2014.



Just for those interested.

Ryuvain

CP5 wrote: »

This is the updated model, this comparison shot is from Senk3tsu back in 2014.



Just for those interested.

Beta look was better imo.
Although behemoth looks better than beta.

RisenEclipse

I would honestly love to be a vampire. I did it on my one character and love how it makes her look. But... I sometimes PvP... And being a vampire is a death sentence lol Plus I do like doing group content and there is a ridiculous amount of fire in a lot of them. So with vamp and ww, I got the bites for both, got all their achievements and dyes... and promptly cured myself afterwards. A shame too. I would love to see more people use monster characters.

Vevvev

RisenEclipse wrote: »

I would honestly love to be a vampire. I did it on my one character and love how it makes her look. But... I sometimes PvP... And being a vampire is a death sentence lol Plus I do like doing group content and there is a ridiculous amount of fire in a lot of them. So with vamp and ww, I got the bites for both, got all their achievements and dyes... and promptly cured myself afterwards. A shame too. I would love to see more people use monster characters.

Elusive Mist, Swarming Scion, and stage 3+ is how you make vampire in PvP not a death sentence. Take advantage of the tools vampire has, use active positioning, and keep sustain in mind and you'll do well.

Ryuvain

RisenEclipse wrote: »

I would honestly love to be a vampire. I did it on my one character and love how it makes her look. But... I sometimes PvP... And being a vampire is a death sentence lol Plus I do like doing group content and there is a ridiculous amount of fire in a lot of them. So with vamp and ww, I got the bites for both, got all their achievements and dyes... and promptly cured myself afterwards. A shame too. I would love to see more people use monster characters.

A LOT of players use vamp stage 3 for undeath. The ultimate and mist form are pretty good too.

huskandhunger

yeah can we get a rework on both vampire and werewolves please?

RaikaNA

Jaraal wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Honestly it would be nice if there was incentive to use alternate forms, perhaps some sort of buff after dropping form, encouraging you to use it even if not at all times but at least engaging with it outside the current 'all or nothing' approach.

They should allow some sort of customizations. Player characters have thousands of combinations of looks, whereas werewolves can be either black or white. And it annoys me that my female characters have the ubiquitous male identifying visual cues of the current ww model.

I would like to change my vanilla werewolf into a Werewolf Behemoth


and have the same skills as one.

merpins

They just need to balance pve and pvp separately, and then they can address the power of WW. Vampire on the otherhand just blows in its current state and needs a third rework to be viable, or a major revamp.

Ryuvain

RaikaNA wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Honestly it would be nice if there was incentive to use alternate forms, perhaps some sort of buff after dropping form, encouraging you to use it even if not at all times but at least engaging with it outside the current 'all or nothing' approach.

They should allow some sort of customizations. Player characters have thousands of combinations of looks, whereas werewolves can be either black or white. And it annoys me that my female characters have the ubiquitous male identifying visual cues of the current ww model.

I would like to change my vanilla werewolf into a Werewolf Behemoth


and have the same skills as one.

Ikr. The one you play as in the dungeon is so fun. And that moveset is basically already complete as well.