And what If I don't want to help the "Queen"?!?!

merpins

The aldmeri dominion of TES 5 is not the same as the aldmeri dominion of ESO.

In TES 5, they are portrayed as a group of fascist, xenophobic dictators that force the other races and kingdoms of tamriel to follow their doctrine, accept their leadership as the leadership, and submit to them. For those that don't submit, they do everything in their power to instigate and subvert the powers that be in the nations that aren't submitting against one another as to weaken their military strength so their can quickly and decisively take over with force. Hence their instigation of the civil war in Skyrim.

In ESO, the main faction of high elves lead by Queen Ayrenn is trying to unite the three major kingdoms on their side of Tamriel, subverting the xenophobic and isolationist propaganda that is touted be her contemporaries. By uniting the people under her banner, she can bring about a more inclusive and friendly coalition of kingdoms to try and unite all of Tamriel under her banner, as from her point of view, neither the Covenant nor the Pact are suited to the throne.

In my opinion, the people in the Pact are not suitable to lead tamriel. The queen of the high elves and the king of the bretons are both much more qualified people to become the next ruler of the white-gold-tower. Ayrenn beats out Emeric since Emeric's agenda uses politics to kind of skirt around the issues with the Orcs, whereas Ayrenn faces those problems in her nation head on. The Pact on the other hand is like... "We all hate eachother, but... Even though we're still racist, we hate all the other nations more than our racism, so lets come together and fight back before we get back to hating eachother."
They're honest about it to some extent, but in the end it would just cause a civil war if they won.

Also, the war is ended canonically by Tiber Septim anyway, Talos himself. Who you root for to win doesn't matter in the long run anyway.

RealLoveBVB

That's where the role playing part begins. In the "3 banner alliance" quest lines you don't experience your own story, but the ones of the dominion, pact and the covenant.

It's a written story already, which you can't influent.

That's like traveling back 100 or 200 years in real life and experiencing someone's story, no matter if you like the person or not. But you can't influence the outcome anymore.

Danel_Vadan

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

The problem is that you cannot simply walk away from this one without abandoning the basic main questline and advancing to Cold Harbour (if AD is your alliance).

The only thing you need to advance to Coldharbour is to complete the Harborage quests. Vanus will visit you and send you to Stirk even if you haven't done any of the Alliance questlines.

Elendir2am

AD 3 is product of subjugation by Talos. Talos used Numidium, weapon of mass destruction, so he could be emperor of whole Tamriel. It look to be ok for all altmer haters.

One thing I like about AD storyline is, that it don't paint them as all good shoes. We see dark aspects of altmers, bosmers and khajiits and they can deal with it insted of denial we see at DC storyline.

Last things, we are wood elves like forest, not woof elves like barking. It isn't woof elves and khajiits like dogs and cats.

S0Z0H

proprio.meb16_ESO wrote: »

Then the OP should have chosen another race or bought the any race any alliance token or the imperial one... t

MovesLikeJaguar wrote: »

The aldmeri dominion of TES 5 is not the same as the aldmeri dominion of ESO.

In TES 5, they are portrayed as a group of fascist, xenophobic dictators that force the other races and kingdoms of tamriel to follow their doctrine, accept their leadership as the leadership, and submit to them. For those that don't submit, they do everything in their power to instigate and subvert the powers that be in the nations that aren't submitting against one another as to weaken their military strength so their can quickly and decisively take over with force. Hence their instigation of the civil war in Skyrim.

In ESO, the main faction of high elves lead by Queen Ayrenn is trying to unite the three major kingdoms on their side of Tamriel, subverting the xenophobic and isolationist propaganda that is touted be her contemporaries. By uniting the people under her banner, she can bring about a more inclusive and friendly coalition of kingdoms to try and unite all of Tamriel under her banner, as from her point of view, neither the Covenant nor the Pact are suited to the throne.

In my opinion, the people in the Pact are not suitable to lead tamriel. The queen of the high elves and the king of the bretons are both much more qualified people to become the next ruler of the white-gold-tower. Ayrenn beats out Emeric since Emeric's agenda uses politics to kind of skirt around the issues with the Orcs, whereas Ayrenn faces those problems in her nation head on. The Pact on the other hand is like... "We all hate eachother, but... Even though we're still racist, we hate all the other nations more than our racism, so lets come together and fight back before we get back to hating eachother."
They're honest about it to some extent, but in the end it would just cause a civil war if they won.

Also, the war is ended canonically by Tiber Septim anyway, Talos himself. Who you root for to win doesn't matter in the long run anyway.

Ya I'm aware of what the Queen is trying to do, my point is , is that it's debatable whether that's a actually a good thing for Nirn. No one asked to unite together , no one asked for inclusion , and how they define unity and inclusion is not the same for every species.

The queen is just too stupid to understand that, cuz high elfs think they are the "chosen ones" that must control and lead the way. Painted in "virtue" and "love", all smoke screens to hide their arrogance and intolerance of other cultures and other norms. It's a perfect way to decieve the masses. "We come in peace " as they hide a dagger behind their back. Lol

This is why they needed a "Assinate Her Majesty" quest and a "Summerset On Fire" quest line lol.

Arunei

There's a worrying amount of dislike here, especially since Ayrenn isn't a bad person. She's young for an Altmer, like...teenager young in terms of human years. Let that put things into perspective. How many teenagers are fully functional on an emotional and mental level?

S0Z0H

Arunei wrote: »

There's a worrying amount of dislike here, especially since Ayrenn isn't a bad person. She's young for an Altmer, like...teenager young in terms of human years. Let that put things into perspective. How many teenagers are fully functional on an emotional and mental level?

Queen Ayrenn is 28 years old. She ain't no "teenager".
And she is a bad person for assuming everyone shares her same definition of prosperity and unity.
High Elves are the type that like to intervene in other countries to try and fix others issues while not fixing there own. They , under the guise of "goodwill" and "spreading peace " , they occupy your land and steal your resources. Typical High Elf behavior.

NylAR

Kinda confused why people always jump to the most difficult and even gamebreaking potential solutions or options to the idea of disagreeing with your faction's motives.

This issue could be as simple as creating only a couple new NPCs on each side of the Alliances, and just ONE ( well 3 actually ) quest chains. You'd start a quest for defection to a different alliance and one of the prerequisites to accepting it could be:

a) having a ton of gold as a sort of "redemption" fee for your "crimes" for a faction change token cause let's face it, bureaucracy is a thing and zenimax loves to make people grind .

b) having a faction change token in your possession cause cause we all know Zeni isn't going to make this change for free like ever.

c) Allowing this change for free until a certain character level (a sort of trial period per se, assuming you don't have a max level on your account yet).

What about this??

Bobby_V_Rockit

Pretend your character got executed, then start a new one in a different alliance.

Arunei

S0Z0H wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

There's a worrying amount of dislike here, especially since Ayrenn isn't a bad person. She's young for an Altmer, like...teenager young in terms of human years. Let that put things into perspective. How many teenagers are fully functional on an emotional and mental level?

Queen Ayrenn is 28 years old. She ain't no "teenager".
And she is a bad person for assuming everyone shares her same definition of prosperity and unity.
High Elves are the type that like to intervene in other countries to try and fix others issues while not fixing there own. They , under the guise of "goodwill" and "spreading peace " , they occupy your land and steal your resources. Typical High Elf behavior.

Altmer can live up to 200-300 years old. They age slower and around her age WOULD be the equivalent of a human in their late teens. She's basically a kid in the eyes of her people, why do you think she's so naive?

So no, she's not a bad person. Most people around that age aren't really emotionally or mentally mature. Calling her a bad person for that is like claiming teenagers are bad people for every bad decision they make.

Olauron

S0Z0H wrote: »

Imperials are the type that like to intervene in other countries to try and fix others issues while not fixing there own. They , under the guise of "goodwill" and "spreading peace " , they occupy your land and steal your resources. Typical Imperial behavior.

S0Z0H wrote: »

Bretons are the type that like to intervene in other countries to try and fix others issues while not fixing there own. They , under the guise of "goodwill" and "spreading peace " , they occupy your land and steal your resources. Typical Breton behavior.

S0Z0H wrote: »

Dark Elves are the type that like to intervene in other countries to try and fix others issues while not fixing there own. They , under the guise of "goodwill" and "spreading peace " , they occupy your land and steal your resources. Typical Dark Elf behavior.

Fixed that for you.

Kiralyn2000

And even in single-player RPGs, you're limited in your choices by what the devs wrote.

Sure, in Skyrim, you can choose between Imperials or Stormcloaks (for all the minor differences that gives). But you can't side with the Thalmor. Or kill all three and take over yourself. Or become a prophet of Alduin, and usher in the apocalypse.

(or, as sometimes came up in "Skyrim's a terrible RPG" rants on the original Skyrim forums, you can't Just Be A Farmer. Yes, there were people complaining "Why does this game force me to be a World Saving Hero?!?! Why can't I just be Joe Random Villager? Awful RPG, no choices!" /eyeroll)

DP99

MovesLikeJaguar wrote: »

The aldmeri dominion of TES 5 is not the same as the aldmeri dominion of ESO.

In TES 5, they are portrayed as a group of fascist, xenophobic dictators that force the other races and kingdoms of tamriel to follow their doctrine, accept their leadership as the leadership, and submit to them. For those that don't submit, they do everything in their power to instigate and subvert the powers that be in the nations that aren't submitting against one another as to weaken their military strength so their can quickly and decisively take over with force. Hence their instigation of the civil war in Skyrim.

In ESO, the main faction of high elves lead by Queen Ayrenn is trying to unite the three major kingdoms on their side of Tamriel, subverting the xenophobic and isolationist propaganda that is touted be her contemporaries. By uniting the people under her banner, she can bring about a more inclusive and friendly coalition of kingdoms to try and unite all of Tamriel under her banner, as from her point of view, neither the Covenant nor the Pact are suited to the throne.

In my opinion, the people in the Pact are not suitable to lead tamriel. The queen of the high elves and the king of the bretons are both much more qualified people to become the next ruler of the white-gold-tower. Ayrenn beats out Emeric since Emeric's agenda uses politics to kind of skirt around the issues with the Orcs, whereas Ayrenn faces those problems in her nation head on. The Pact on the other hand is like... "We all hate eachother, but... Even though we're still racist, we hate all the other nations more than our racism, so lets come together and fight back before we get back to hating eachother."
They're honest about it to some extent, but in the end it would just cause a civil war if they won.

Also, the war is ended canonically by Tiber Septim anyway, Talos himself. Who you root for to win doesn't matter in the long run anyway.

Yes, exactly. It's not like there's not huge apparent racism in the other factions. The Pact shouldn't even exist, lol! And, the Covenant has a lot of in-fighting and distrust as well due to bad blood between the races. Jorunn is a loud-mouthed braggart and Emeric is a buffoon. Ayrenn might be a bit naïve in her idealism, but at least she's the only one that actually leads her faction with the backing of the races behind her in unity. There might be some minor in-fighting in the Dominion as well, but anything shown is very minimal compared to what the other two factions are going through. The queen just wants everyone to get along, and her work with her own faction has shown that it can be done, not like what the other two so-called kings have failed to accomplish.

ElvenOverlord

S0Z0H wrote: »

Supreme_Atromancer wrote: »

ElvenOverlord wrote: »

What are you going on about? The Bosmer and Khajiit are members by choice through diplomacy and serve on the Thalmor. Any hatred and discrimination they face you literally fight against it and the Queen elevates the Khajiit and Bosmer to equal status with the Altmer and opened up Summerset to all outsiders.

Username checks out

There wasn't a vote I don't think, there's woof elf and Khajit that do not like the Dominion. "Opening Up" Summerset is supposed to be a positive thing? Who says? We already see the Thalmor's trechory further in time via Skyrim. To hell with the Thalmor.

Yes it's a positive thing. Ayrenn chastises her people for being closed minded and cutting themselves off from the world and says they can no longer do that. By opening up Summerset she pushes back against the xenophobic belief that only Altmer should have the privilege of beholding the beauty of Summerset. And Ayrenn used diplomacy and years of travel to form an alliance with the khajiit and Bosmer. You really just don't seem to know the lore, playing through the storyline explains all this. The King of the Bosmer and the Mane of the Khajiit all believe in her and are friends with her and agreed to join the Dominion, she earned their trust.

You're condemning the Altmer in eso for what the Thalmor do thousands of years later in Skyrim. The fact is the Thalmor you see in Skyrim was a radical and fringe group in Summerset society that was largely ignored. They took advantage of the Oblivion Crisis to murder the royal leaders of Summerset and seize power. The Dominion you see in ESO is not the same dominion you see Skyrim. And the resistance against the Thalmor is alive and well in Summerset in the events of Skyrim.

Ayrenn proved herself and her good intentions when she steps out of the Orrery in the Dominion storyline. It exposes who you are on the inside like it exposed the truth about her brother and turned him into the monster he really was. If Ayrenn was not a worthy queen she would have met the same fate. The story itself disproves your opinion of her. You can say she's young, inexperienced, impetus, overly idealistic or delusional but she's not phoney. Those criticisms actually have merit. She's literally leading the fight against the Heritance, the true racists. Any racism in the Dominion storyline is fought against.

Personally, you can not like her that's fine. But saying she's phony or racist or comparing the Dominion in ESO to the one in Skyrim is contradicted by the story itself.

ElvenOverlord

DP99 wrote: »

MovesLikeJaguar wrote: »

The aldmeri dominion of TES 5 is not the same as the aldmeri dominion of ESO.

In TES 5, they are portrayed as a group of fascist, xenophobic dictators that force the other races and kingdoms of tamriel to follow their doctrine, accept their leadership as the leadership, and submit to them. For those that don't submit, they do everything in their power to instigate and subvert the powers that be in the nations that aren't submitting against one another as to weaken their military strength so their can quickly and decisively take over with force. Hence their instigation of the civil war in Skyrim.

In ESO, the main faction of high elves lead by Queen Ayrenn is trying to unite the three major kingdoms on their side of Tamriel, subverting the xenophobic and isolationist propaganda that is touted be her contemporaries. By uniting the people under her banner, she can bring about a more inclusive and friendly coalition of kingdoms to try and unite all of Tamriel under her banner, as from her point of view, neither the Covenant nor the Pact are suited to the throne.

In my opinion, the people in the Pact are not suitable to lead tamriel. The queen of the high elves and the king of the bretons are both much more qualified people to become the next ruler of the white-gold-tower. Ayrenn beats out Emeric since Emeric's agenda uses politics to kind of skirt around the issues with the Orcs, whereas Ayrenn faces those problems in her nation head on. The Pact on the other hand is like... "We all hate eachother, but... Even though we're still racist, we hate all the other nations more than our racism, so lets come together and fight back before we get back to hating eachother."
They're honest about it to some extent, but in the end it would just cause a civil war if they won.

Also, the war is ended canonically by Tiber Septim anyway, Talos himself. Who you root for to win doesn't matter in the long run anyway.

Yes, exactly. It's not like there's not huge apparent racism in the other factions. The Pact shouldn't even exist, lol! And, the Covenant has a lot of in-fighting and distrust as well due to bad blood between the races. Jorunn is a loud-mouthed braggart and Emeric is a buffoon. Ayrenn might be a bit naïve in her idealism, but at least she's the only one that actually leads her faction with the backing of the races behind her in unity. There might be some minor in-fighting in the Dominion as well, but anything shown is very minimal compared to what the other two factions are going through. The queen just wants everyone to get along, and her work with her own faction has shown that it can be done, not like what the other two so-called kings have failed to accomplish.

Not to actually defend the Pact, but its existence kinda makes sense. Lets look at all the factors. It was an alliance formed out of necessity during the Akaviri invasion, it was a bond forged in war. You meet a number of Pact members of all three races who fought and bled alongside one another. They worked hard through great difficulty to form the Pact.

Also, in the storyline you hear and see how fragile the Pact is and the mistrust that still exist between Dunmer and Argonians. Also many Argonians refused to join and you can see a group in Grahtwood that refused to join with their former slave owners. Only 3 or 4 Argonian tribes are members of the Pact. Black Marsh as a whole aren't a part of it. The Telvanni and the Dres all refused to join cause it would mean giving up their slaves and the Telvanni have a neutal and independent streak anyway. Slave labor is more important to those two than the other houses. Also only eastern Skyrim is part of the Pact, Western Skyrim kinda looks down on their more "barbaric and uncivilized" brethren and their new elven and lizard allies.

So you have a Pact that is fragile and the storyline portrays it as such. Many in all three races have refused to join and the bond forged in the Akaviri war is one of the few things holding it together. I think given all the circumstances its pretty realistic. I 100% agree with everything else you stated though.

LalMirchi

S0Z0H wrote: »

LalMirchi wrote: »

S0Z0H wrote: »

...
We need the option to not help the phoney Queen and allow us to go against the Dominion.
...

Nothing phoney about this queen if you read the lore https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Ayrenn

Young, yes. Idealistic, yes. Impetus, yes. But definitely not phoney. https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Ayrenn

Perhaps you are a follower of High Kinlady Estre?

That would not be wise says my dear friend Razum-dar

razum dar is a sell out and a simp. To hell with him lol

I do think Raz would have a rather pointy interlude that would put both your mind and body to rest.

Viem

That's some interesting perspective you raised there OP.

Olauron

ElvenOverlord wrote: »

Ayrenn proved herself and her good intentions when she steps out of the Orrery in the Dominion storyline. It exposes who you are on the inside like it exposed the truth about her brother and turned him into the monster he really was. If Ayrenn was not a worthy queen she would have met the same fate.

I agree with most of the things you said, but about this, to be entirely honest,
"As for the Osseous Orrery: can anyone really claim to comprehend the full intentions of Anumaril in his metamorphosis to instrumentality? Do we even know how many axes of circumpenetration its arms rotate through?" — Morian Zenas, "Commentaries on Beredalmo"
First, this is an Ayleid Orrery. When an Ayleid Orrery regards you as worthy, you are simply praying that this is over and you have the same number of hands and legs you had before. When an Ayleid Orrery regards you as worthy, the last thing you think is that is because you are xenophilic and humble.
Second, this is the creation of Anumaril. Anumaril "the Mortuum Vivicus" king of Abagarlas. Anumaril "the Staff of Towers" arch-mage. Anumaril "the Will, and Shall, and Must" stopper of the walking tree. When you are named worthy by Anumaril, you should ask "why" twice. Or thrice.
For all we know, Naemon could be unworthy to rule the White-Gold Tower for his ogrim-dumb sacrifice ("For how could I let you risk your life in this contraption without testing it first, dear sister?"), and Ayrenn could be worthy to rule the White-Gold Tower for her determination to rule. The story with Orrery is open to interpretations (and this is good).

ElvenOverlord

Olauron wrote: »

ElvenOverlord wrote: »

Ayrenn proved herself and her good intentions when she steps out of the Orrery in the Dominion storyline. It exposes who you are on the inside like it exposed the truth about her brother and turned him into the monster he really was. If Ayrenn was not a worthy queen she would have met the same fate.

I agree with most of the things you said, but about this, to be entirely honest,
"As for the Osseous Orrery: can anyone really claim to comprehend the full intentions of Anumaril in his metamorphosis to instrumentality? Do we even know how many axes of circumpenetration its arms rotate through?" — Morian Zenas, "Commentaries on Beredalmo"
First, this is an Ayleid Orrery. When an Ayleid Orrery regards you as worthy, you are simply praying that this is over and you have the same number of hands and legs you had before. When an Ayleid Orrery regards you as worthy, the last thing you think is that is because you are xenophilic and humble.
Second, this is the creation of Anumaril. Anumaril "the Mortuum Vivicus" king of Abagarlas. Anumaril "the Staff of Towers" arch-mage. Anumaril "the Will, and Shall, and Must" stopper of the walking tree. When you are named worthy by Anumaril, you should ask "why" twice. Or thrice.
For all we know, Naemon could be unworthy to rule the White-Gold Tower for his ogrim-dumb sacrifice ("For how could I let you risk your life in this contraption without testing it first, dear sister?"), and Ayrenn could be worthy to rule the White-Gold Tower for her determination to rule. The story with Orrery is open to interpretations (and this is good).

Thanks for the insight. I didn't know much about the origins of the Orrery or where it came from. I only knew it was Ayleid since it was in an ayleid ruin. It actually being created by Anumaril though is pretty interesting and raises a few questions. I do see that apparently he was trying to recreate a White-Gold Tower but ultimately failed due to incompatibility between Bosmer magic and belief and those of the Ayleid

NotaDaedraWorshipper

S0Z0H wrote: »

NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »

S0Z0H wrote: »

more earth shattering decision like found in Skyrim should be allowed.

Have you even played Skyrim? You can choose to side with either the Imperials or Stormcloaks, and the decisions are pretty game altering lol.

The point is, you have built in choices. The lore overall still presses on and the story continues as the writers intended , but you , as a player pick a side. You even can find a way to decide a more middle path.
That's how brilliant Skyrim is.

Yes, which is why I'm laughing? Imperials or Stormcloaks an earth shattering, decision, that's funny. Yesterday I wore blue instead of red and bought the same groceries as usual but of a different brand and from the store that lies to the east instead of the one to the west. Earth shattering.
Not only is Skyrim a singleplayer game and not a MMO, but it has pretty much always only given you the illusion of choice. If Skyrim has earth shattering decisions, then why can't you side with the Thalmor? Why can't you side with the Silver Hand? Where is the option to not be a werewolf, or have The Companions storyline not all linear where you're group pressured to become a werewolf only to cure it later? Side with Astrid instead of traditional Brotherhood? Why can't you side with Mercer in the TG? The "choices" are often completely meaningless or like you're choosing between A or A and both result in B.

You also seem stuck in Skyrim and thinks of the Thalmor as they are there, not what they are in the second era. There has been at least three different Aldmeri Dominions throughout Elder Scrolls. You can also literally pick to not side with the Queen by choosing one of the other two factions.

SerafinaWaterstar

Kudos to those explaining TES lore to the OP but not sure its worth it from reading their responses. Would almost consider it a kind of “trolling” as they seem to deliberately not understand what is made very clear in the game……

I personally don’t see why EP have an idiot Nord as their leader, but that’s the story so I just pretend the Argonians allow it rather than it being Almalexia or the the whole Tribunal. Which would be far worse.