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Stamsorc getting weaker?
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Tiphis✭✭✭✭gariondavey wrote: »xylena_lazarow wrote: »
The stronger classes don't need to invest an entire 5pc in sustain. This just compounds the class's weakness. I don't see how any "good" stamsorc wouldn't still perform better on a different class.gariondavey wrote: »The stam sorc I all know are not having sustain issues. Many just back bar wretched vitality and use sugar skulls.
I roll stamsorc with sculls and no sustain sets. Sorc sustain is top-tier already.
Unless you are spamming Conversion i think you are definitely over exaggerating it a wee bit. Aside from Conversions big burst of regen. It gives you 120 stam/s or 240 stam recovery however you want to view it. You must be running all infused with stam recovery. Or heavy attacking non-stop
Tbh sorc sustain isn't that awful if you're skillful with it. My stam sorc is using sugar skulls with only about 1200 regen but I am in 6 medium so roll dodges are pretty cheap and I use SnB backbar so back bar blocking is also cheap. It's not op sustain by any means but I can manage that because I have good enough killing power to get the 2h sustain buff active and LoS/roll dodge/jump block when necessary.
I usually position myself where I can give myself time if I'm close to being stam checked, so the low sustain never penalizes me much unless I have a literal mini-zerg of players on me. Which in that case, there's not much I can do in that instance, even with better sustain
Frontbar I am guessing is 2h? Rally? Execute? 2h gives huge increase to stam regen on kill and also rally gives minor endurance. If you are bow I assume you are just kiting around with streak. Either way comparatively. Look at DK sustain with applying poison/burn. Templars mit buff and repentance. StamSorcs no longer have a real edge on sustain.
No stamplar I know runs repentance in anything other than ravenwatch. I personally haven't used repentance in years but do see others using it in ravenwatch, but never in cp ic or bgs.
I see it fairly often. Maybe just depends on their setup. But either way it is very high regen especially if you can get kills... Which Templars easily can.
I mean magplars and magdks are basically just OP. HarSustain really is the least of Stamsorcs problems. Its fantastic already, you can easily sustain full weapon enchantments without any Sustain sets and never run out of Stamina.
Aside that Stamsorc as class didn't exactly got weaker itself over the years, it just never got a lasting buff, while everything around it got stronger.
First (and only class related one) big change was the kill of the passive Amplitude, which ended its random chance to execute. Kill potential -> gone.
Then it became rule that a Magnecro can outspeed you with just Race against time. Stamsorc fastest class -> gone.
After that they nerfed crit to the ground, but never adjusted Critsurge. Stamsorcs passive healing -> gone.
Then they nerfed popular sets like Briarheart that replaced the loss of Critsurge, which made playing Stamsorc based on Crit pointless, which in turn lowered its healing and damage even further. Stamsorcs Burstpotential, Healing -> lowered.
Finally with the change of the CP, which to be fair hit all classes, Stamsorc lost a lot of defensive stars, which it desperately needed since its passive Skills are all offensive. Stamsorcs Survivabillity -> gone.
After that it was only played in a niche using Overload + Crystal Weapon + Crushing Weapon, which was massively OP and could nuke anything, but got nerfed now that you can't Overload out of sneak, and can't combine Crystal Weapon with any other skill of that kind. Niche -> gone
Stamsorc can only be used for a fast burst combo, which isn't even taken out of its class kit in general, but mostly bound to D Swing or similar from the weapon lines, which in todays meta where everyone runs 40k Health and 33k Armor and still deals more damage than you, is basically a lost cause. I still do play my Stamsorc and to this day no class feels more like home to me but the reward is low. You are just not competitive to any other class especially now that DoT Builds are so strong again, because Stamsorc has absolutely no counter to it. No Heal strong enough, no purge, no HoT.
Also pulling of a complete burst rotation on a fast Stamsorc build in todays lag is near impossible, because you and your opponents are constantly position desynched and its more likely you die to your D Swing being stuck till you hit the ground.
Although having sustain tied to dark deal means you are interrupted a lot for a free cc for the enemy. Only sustain mechanism in the game that is counterable.1 -
Hescrow✭✭
You mean overload right?I feel like stamsorc is in a better spot from a CP/Cyro standpoint than it is in BGs simply because you have access to the best ultimate for large scale PvP
It has been nerfed with the impossibility to combine crystal weapon and imbue weapon now.
And for duel stamsorc is at the very bottom now, cannot test against magdk and magplar but not only them, magcro/stamcro and warden with big heal/sustain for all of them...
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Hescrow✭✭
A simple Roll dodge and you are out lol. Come on Guy negate is the worst ultimate in the game. Even fossilize from dk is better and it is not an ulti...Edited by Hescrow on April 12, 2022 8:35AM0 -
Tiphis✭✭✭✭
A simple Roll dodge and you are out lol. Come on Guy negate is the worst ultimate in the game. Even fossilize from dk is better and it is not an ulti...
Negate is a very situational ult, it can either be the best or the worst. In a bg with a coordinated team you can bomb under it and will get at least 1 kill usually.1 -
L_Nici✭✭✭✭✭
✭Negate is a sad excuse for an ultimate. It was great once as Stamsorc was still the fastest on the field, nowadays most players have so much speed momentum, that they are out of it, without even trying.
Thats why I find it so funny that Ballgroups bring up Negate as a counter to their playstyle. It simply isn't. Ballgroups are to fast thanks to Race against time and snare immunities. Its more likely that the ballgroup passed your negate area, while its still being casted. Also the server doesn't realise an enemy in Negate quick enough, which means that they usually can still cast at least once more before they actually get silenced. Which is one time to late.Edited by L_Nici on April 12, 2022 6:04PMA very special girl
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divnyi✭✭✭✭✭
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Start with caltrops, coordinate with group to AoE stun at the same time, throw in AoE immobilize into the mix.
In bigger groups if every sorc rolls Negate, you chain them. Once opponent gets out from the first one, additional negate follows. 3 consecutive negates remove pretty much any coordinated group because it shuts down heals for so long that it's practically anti-heal burst.
It is the best ultimate in the game because it bypasses CC restrictions: stun has 7s timer and can be immuned out by pot, snare/root can be immuned out with items or skills. Silence area has no timer and shuts down most of the dangerous things, alongside with doing good damage.
It is the kind of skill that is increasingly better if you run coordinated strong team and can kill coordinated strong teams. It is not only Cyro meta, but group BG too. SoloQ BGs tho, I don't run it.2 -
Hescrow✭✭Come on it is a niche situation negate.
Think more common like crystal weapon which is not a Real spammable for me. And it is why stamsorc is weak mainly.
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Wolfpaw✭✭✭✭✭
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A simple Roll dodge and you are out lol. Come on Guy negate is the worst ultimate in the game. Even fossilize from dk is better and it is not an ulti...
I love it when players try to dodge out of our dc/smash/negate dump.2 -
universal_wrath✭✭✭✭✭gariondavey wrote: »Stamsorc got huge buffs this patch. Huge.
Curse. Endless fury.
^ This. And stamsorc was never in a bad place to begin with. Literally every meta every patch I've seen such a strong stamsorcs in BGs that it leaves you wonder why you didn't master the class yet.
OP, if you want to stack crystal and imbued for burst, why not using Snipe instead? It basically does the same, 0.8s of charge time and in 0.2s you have next GCD, also more damage. Check this out:
https://youtu.be/aT-_CNI_kvg
Do notice that this vid is from the previous patch. Fury deals even more damage now with bigger crit.
This is just a magsorc with extra steps, lol. Swap bow for inferno and snipe for crystal frament and you get the better version.1 -
universal_wrath✭✭✭✭✭One_Bad_Bosmer wrote: »gariondavey wrote: »Stamsorc got huge buffs this patch. Huge.
Curse. Endless fury.
Those are more inherent magsorc skills. How am I as a 2h STAMSORC going to run those. Again sounds like more hybrid bs or just time to switch to magsorc. They buffed nothing aside from adding 5 seconds to hurricane. SMH
Because now all skills scale on highest stats. Theory and in practice are two different things.
I think what most of the people are saying is the only way to be a top tier PVP stamsorc is to all run the same bow build?
If i see a well played templar or DK die to a stamsorc (OTHER than this bow build) I would be amazed.
Skills do scale with highest offensive stats now, but if you want to use those new skills you need to build more ibto magicka and use it as main source. If you use magicka skills constantly as stam sorc, you gimp your sustain, better play as magsorc instead.1 -
Hescrow✭✭
A simple Roll dodge and you are out lol. Come on Guy negate is the worst ultimate in the game. Even fossilize from dk is better and it is not an ulti...
I love it when players try to dodge out of our dc/smash/negate dump.[/quouniversal_wrath wrote: »gariondavey wrote: »Stamsorc got huge buffs this patch. Huge.
Curse. Endless fury.
^ This. And stamsorc was never in a bad place to begin with. Literally every meta every patch I've seen such a strong stamsorcs in BGs that it leaves you wonder why you didn't master the class yet.
OP, if you want to stack crystal and imbued for burst, why not using Snipe instead? It basically does the same, 0.8s of charge time and in 0.2s you have next GCD, also more damage. Check this out:https://youtu.be/aT-_CNI_kvg
Do notice that this vid is from the previous patch. Fury deals even more damage now with bigger crit.
This is just a magsorc with extra steps, lol. Swap bow for inferno and snipe for crystal frament and you get the better version.
We don't all follow meta.
If we want to play stamsorc as 2h for example it is not same.
In duels with bow you cannot go too far away otherwise you loose.
Only bg and cyro but I like play lightning with 2h. It is so original that's why i play this game.
No other mmo give you the chance to be a warrior casting lightning.Edited by Hescrow on April 14, 2022 8:35AM0 -
divnyi✭✭✭✭✭
✭universal_wrath wrote: »gariondavey wrote: »Stamsorc got huge buffs this patch. Huge.
Curse. Endless fury.
^ This. And stamsorc was never in a bad place to begin with. Literally every meta every patch I've seen such a strong stamsorcs in BGs that it leaves you wonder why you didn't master the class yet.
OP, if you want to stack crystal and imbued for burst, why not using Snipe instead? It basically does the same, 0.8s of charge time and in 0.2s you have next GCD, also more damage. Check this out:https://youtu.be/aT-_CNI_kvg
Do notice that this vid is from the previous patch. Fury deals even more damage now with bigger crit.
This is just a magsorc with extra steps, lol. Swap bow for inferno and snipe for crystal frament and you get the better version.
Can't stack 3 spammable/burst sources of damage in 1 GCD as mag, outside curse, which is telegraphed.0 -
universal_wrath✭✭✭✭✭universal_wrath wrote: »gariondavey wrote: »Stamsorc got huge buffs this patch. Huge.
Curse. Endless fury.
^ This. And stamsorc was never in a bad place to begin with. Literally every meta every patch I've seen such a strong stamsorcs in BGs that it leaves you wonder why you didn't master the class yet.
OP, if you want to stack crystal and imbued for burst, why not using Snipe instead? It basically does the same, 0.8s of charge time and in 0.2s you have next GCD, also more damage. Check this out:https://youtu.be/aT-_CNI_kvg
Do notice that this vid is from the previous patch. Fury deals even more damage now with bigger crit.
This is just a magsorc with extra steps, lol. Swap bow for inferno and snipe for crystal frament and you get the better version.
Can't stack 3 spammable/burst sources of damage in 1 GCD as mag, outside curse, which is telegraphed.
In current patch, you can only stack 2 spammable as both stamina and magicka. Both imbu weapon and crystal weapon now cancel each other so you can only have 1 active buff of either one of them. So as stamina, you can use imbue weapon/crystal+snipe+LA. Magicka counterpart can use imbue+crystal fragment+LA if they wanted, but they seem to not need that to kill people. Also, overload now have funmy interaction with crystal weapon and imbue weapon and I believe it cancel both if it was used.
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divnyi✭✭✭✭✭
✭universal_wrath wrote: »Magicka counterpart can use imbue+crystal fragment+LA if they wanted
It wouldn't work as 2s is very short.0 -
universal_wrath✭✭✭✭✭universal_wrath wrote: »Magicka counterpart can use imbue+crystal fragment+LA if they wanted
It wouldn't work as 2s is very short.
How it won't work but imbue/crystal+snipe+LA works?0 -
divnyi✭✭✭✭✭
✭universal_wrath wrote: »universal_wrath wrote: »Magicka counterpart can use imbue+crystal fragment+LA if they wanted
It wouldn't work as 2s is very short.
How it won't work but imbue/crystal+snipe+LA works?
Crystal is 4s. You put it up, snipe -> LA + other skill (Endless Fury in my case). Imbue won't work.
Crystal, Imbue, LA+skill used to work before with the same idea - to stack for 3x spammable burst. Not anymore.0 -
WeylandLabs✭✭✭✭✭I been playing 1 class and 1 character for 7 years Stam sorc in PvP and taking breaks between it I can say this is really hard. Coming from marketing business analytics, seems the trend is is flawed with not how its balanced but with "who" is balancing it.
I feel around 2018-19 ZOS pretty much knew they weren't going to fix PvP and created things around light and heavy attacks to mitigate latency. Thus a meta of light attacks and heavy attacks was born, what ZOS doesn't take into accounts is playstyles. Bye homogenizing things you are left with a pattern of ability's that hinder playstyles and creative diverse builds to create. - REASON WHY I PLAYED - Creativity was rewarded to helping you win battles.
But this is irrelevant the I like the game in itself but the company is in my opinion trying to delay, procrastinate, dodge there careers to make this a 15 year game. I feel we had our time and the good times are now lost in old dlcs before this became about what can i buy to make my character powerful. Its an illusion now.
The old player base that stayed playing good luck something tells me your not in it for the PvP and good times. Zos is marketing to new players types and bringing in a new era of gamers. We are a lost cause for those who understand the truth.
However if it hadn't been for the frustration of ZOS I wouldn't have gotten into Blockchain gaming, where we " the players " control whos in charge. That's an industry I'm extremely excited for and willing to invest my life and money in. Bye doing so it will benefit me also financially so I thanks ZOS for pushing me to understand new tech.
As for Stam Sorcs I really wish there was an ESO classic with yearly servers - I live in the 2016 - 2017 server !
That's something id buy 1000%0 -
Aznox✭✭✭✭✭Edited by Aznox on April 17, 2022 9:21PMAznox
PC EU
Khajiit Orc Bosmer Stamina Sorcerer and Werewolf Stage 3 Vampire
I live in Battlegrounds
Theorycrafting enthusiast
Official Cheese Lord
CP1500+ club0 -
WeylandLabs✭✭✭✭✭Who reads these posts in the heavily bias policed forums anyway ? lol Just a place to scream into underwater...
Yet I have so many questions towards the game, but I'm afraid i can answer them myself.0 -
universal_wrath✭✭✭✭✭universal_wrath wrote: »universal_wrath wrote: »Magicka counterpart can use imbue+crystal fragment+LA if they wanted
It wouldn't work as 2s is very short.
How it won't work but imbue/crystal+snipe+LA works?
Crystal is 4s. You put it up, snipe -> LA + other skill (Endless Fury in my case). Imbue won't work.
Crystal, Imbue, LA+skill used to work before with the same idea - to stack for 3x spammable burst. Not anymore.
Both are highly telegraphed, I only work in gank situation or when target distacted fighting other players. The more time you take to prepare your combo infront of others, the easier it is to for them to figure it out and avoid it.
I just hope for proper rework of the sorcerer skills next patch to to compensate for the changesxylena_lazarow wrote: »
Fyi, there is non for stamina.0 -
xylena_lazarow✭✭✭✭✭
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They got rid of that in u33 and replaced it with a duration extension (pretty big nerf).universal_wrath wrote: »Most likely with bleed stacking 3×
The weapon lines need instant cast spammables that don't require an arena weapon to be good. Stinging Slashes lets you RP as a stam DK on your stamsorc to some extent, but limits builds.PC/NA || CP/Cyro || RIP soft caps2 -
Aznox✭✭✭✭✭xylena_lazarow wrote: »
Yes, very good all-around option, the new bleed duration system is a slight damage nerf, but it feeds crit surge nicely while you are on defense.Edited by Aznox on April 18, 2022 8:34AMAznox
PC EU
Khajiit Orc Bosmer Stamina Sorcerer and Werewolf Stage 3 Vampire
I live in Battlegrounds
Theorycrafting enthusiast
Official Cheese Lord
CP1500+ club0
