A Way to Split ESO Between PVE and PvP?

Amottica

Stamicka wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Stamicka wrote: »

Danikat wrote: »

Stamicka wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Is it possible, Of course, it is possible.

However, Zenimax is copying characters from a live server to one that is not live. They have made it clear they have no interest in building the tool necessary for copying characters to a live server which is very different than what they do with the PTS. They have also stated they have no interest in splitting the population of the servers into smaller groups.

It will also increase the operating costs significantly as that will require six additional server setups to accommodate the NA/EU for all three platforms, doubling what they have now. The PTS uses only one server setup for all the PTS needs.

Basically, it is much more likely that Zenimax would develop AUS/NZ servers before even considering this. This is also an idea they have rejected for the second reason I gave.

Sorry to rain on the parade.

There is currently no PvP only server, so it would be the same as copying to the PTS. What I’m describing requires a copy to a server that is not live. They would have to make the PvP servers for this.

As to your comment about having to make 6 different servers, I mentioned that cross platform for the PvP side may be beneficial. With cross platform you would only need one PvP server for NA and one for EU. This would probably be beneficial since PvP is kind of dead with current one server populations.

The problem is periodically synching the two, the PTS doesn't do that. When it's updated everything that was on there before is overwritten and lost. Any progress you've made and any differences between your PTS and live characters are gone and doesn't come back. (And not just because they swap between NA and EU, even when it swaps back anything you did before is gone.) That's why it's not possible to just play on the PTS, every 2 weeks everything you've done gets deleted. (And of course they never copy data from the PTS to live.)

According to ZOS they don't have the technology to do data transfers any other way - they can import data to a blank database but cannot add it in or update it without wiping what was there before. That's why account transfers from PC to consoles could only happen once and all had to happen at the same time.

So they could make a separate PvP server, but it would be the same as the console transfers: you get a one-time copy of your account on the PvP server and then the two are separate from that point on. Anything you do in PvP has no impact on your PvE account and vice versa.

Yes, they would have to change how data is stored and synced in order to make this change work. I personally think it would be worth the investment.

You originally said this would be copying characters to a server that was not live since these six proposed PvP servers would not be live yet. However, now you want the information to be continuously copied back and forth between live severs. That is something I already pointed out Zenimax has said they do not want to do such a thing.

It is interesting to see the suggestion that this would be worth the investment even though no one has to pay anything beyond ~10 USD (on sale) to play PvP in ESO. It seems more like a huge net loss which would not be a good investment. As I noted previously, Zenimax would have done this long ago if they thought it would increase profits.

Sorry to rain on the parade.

There would still be copying to a server that is not live, which we know is possible. After that initial copy has been done, as you rank up in PvP or maybe when you get an achievement in PVE, this would information would have to be synced maybe once a week so that both servers reflect the same information. It is not possible to rank up in PVE while on the PvP server. Likewise it would not be possible to get a PVE achievement while on the PvP server. This may make it easier to create system that can store and sync these states. I wouldn’t think this would be a hard task, and it would be much different than copying entire characters.

Here’s the thing, they’re going to have to invest something into PvP either way and apparently they currently are. If you’re losing customers because your product is not working (which is what has been happening) then it’s time to invest in some fixes. There’s also the potential for bringing in a new demographic. Don’t act like you know what is financially best for the company unless you work for them.

1. You are asking for them to transfer information to live servers. That is what syncing is. It is irrelevant that they can transfer information to a server that is not live when asking them to constantly transfer information back and forth between live servers.

2. The "need" to invest something into PvP vs doubling their operating costs in both equipment needs and managing the game as two separate games are very different. They also do not need to invest much into PvP. FIxing the performance in Cyrdoiil is most important and some tweaks to BGs is really all that is "needed".

3. Oh, I do not know what is financially best for Zenimax but I do know, from owning my own business, that no well-managed business will just double their expenses without doing the homework to see if they have a real chance to receive a return form the investment (ROCE). Many businesses have failed because they overreach. This is business 101.

Adding here. As I pointed out earlier, and someone else has pointed out, there is not even a server that serves SEA/AUS/NZ so I really doubt Zenimax is going to create six new servers for the geography the existing servers already serve.

Nestor

They don't need to break the game in two. Just have two different skill sets, one for PvP and one for PvE. There are a few ways to do this, same skills different effects or different skill trees for PvP in addition to what they have now.

Of course it would be tricky with Class Skills to integrate that into this system. Perhaps a Third Morph that only works in PvP. With the move to Mag or Stamina having the same impact on stats, this could be doable. Use the Armory system to change out skills or Morphs as needed depending Zone

colossalvoids

They potentially could split the game in two, one being IC and Cyro with BG queues and the other one being all other zones but pvp ones, meaning obviously no pve Cyrodiil or IC as it would be just ridiculous and against the game and zone design. But how would they "synchronise" is would be an issue potentially, potential lost data, specific days for it etc. I'd better have different skillset for pvp zones, so skills could be balanced over the zone you're in with ability to swap between in houses to setup builds via armory, using dummies and so forth.

hafgood

They won't split the game as others have said its not financially viable and they clearly see PvP as a relevant part of the game (if you don't believe me read the press releases for Midyear Mayhem).

It really is time to stop this anti PvP rubbish. There are as many issues within PvE as there are in PvP. Both sides need each other and should just be seen as two sides of the same coin.

I do agree that it wouldn't harm for sets or skills to operate differently in PvE to PvP but I wouldn't want to see specific sets that only work on one or the other or skills that only work in one or the other.

It's time we started embracing both sides of the game, we need to stop this artificial division that we as players do.

I am neither PvEr nor PvPer. I am both. I am a player of ESO and proud to enjoy all it has to offer.

AcadianPaladin

I do endorse that the game really needs PvE, PvP and solo players to thrive. So each of those endeavors are legitimate and important. Besides, many players enjoy moving between PvE and PvP.

That said, my concern is that there are mechanics and skills that are great in one environment but toxic in the other, so how to best address that without simply nerfing anything and everything that causes a problem in either PvE or PvP. That is, my concern is to avoid further condemning the game to mediocrity.

I don't know if additional servers set up for PvP only is the answer or Battle Spirit can handle the problem or now. Perhaps @Nestor is right that considering certain skills, morphs or gear for PvE or PvP only might help. As a PvE'er, I don't know enough about PvP to really help much on the fix. I just know I hate changes that for me in PvE are just plain dumb, unnecessary and reduce the fun of combat in PvE.

Arunei

They've ready proven they can split PvE and PvP in several different ways. There's Battle Spirit, which puts debuffs on you ONLY when in Cyrodill, as well as things like the low pop bonus, Emperor buffs, and Scroll/Home Keep bonuses. They have some campaigns where CP or proc sets are disabled. They made one of Blood Mist's morphs work ONLY in PvP.

ZOS has the ability to balance specific skills or mechanics or sets for PvP without them affecting PvE and vice versa. It's not like every single set, skill, or mechanic needs to have PvP and PvE versions, only certain ones where the change for PvP would adversely affect PvE and, again, vice versa.

katanagirl1

It is true that the issues in PVP have been making their way into PVE. If you are not seeing them in PVE it is probably because you aren’t doing trials, group dungeons, or much combat at all.

The rework for PVP should not be considered a waste of time by PvE players. It should benefit the game as a whole if the issues are finally addressed.

daim

Sounds good. To make it simple remove all gear from pvp and also allow only pvp skills in pvp to make it balanced for everyone. Then we wouldnt need to have daily whining threads about balancing issues and the devs would save themselves for breaking sets and skills all the time.

dmnqwk

PvP balance has always been a problem for MMOs

Guild Wars 1 did an interesting job in how it had skills work differently in PvP to PvE
WoW never had balance and I played all 3 druid specs (feral dps is NOT a real spec and never was!) depending on which one functioned well enough at the time.
Swtor had healers way too strong until they nerfed them harshly enough
ESO has battle spirit, which is terrible as a way to fix things.

What each of them tend to have is a common problem when tanks and healers are added to the mix, in that no MMO I've played has successfully found a way to fairly balance tanks/healers in the mix. Every game tries to screw over tank and healer players in PvP, to mitigate the huge impact they have there, and ESO is no different with the terrible Battle Spirit fiasco.

Best way to handle PvP is force tank/healers in the mix. I mean, it'll be funny when Battlegrounds are all 1 tank 1 healer 2 dps groups but then a group gets 2 'fakes' and is pummelled into oblivion (without battle spirit being there). Cyro no-cp would be more fun to be in my warden didn't lose access to equilibrium (because it relies on the self healing).

I would definitely love to see them treat PvP better by enforcing role-balance and removing Battle Spirit!

Fizzyapple

I say we get rid of the Altmer.

Bosmer pride.

pleximus

Would be great if they separated them and made pvp cross-platform. I don't know much about coding but wouldn't that lessen the strain on the current megaservers if they didn't have to focus on pvp? Making it cross-platform and one single server instead of NA/EU while simultaneously increasing the population cap to what it was at the start. There are so many possibilities that could be opened up. And Microsoft have more than enough money to spend on enhancing the quality of ESO. It would be in their best interest.

Lazarus_Rising

I strongly advocate that players start to split and do both content

Stamicka

daim wrote: »

Sounds good. To make it simple remove all gear from pvp and also allow only pvp skills in pvp to make it balanced for everyone. Then we wouldnt need to have daily whining threads about balancing issues and the devs would save themselves for breaking sets and skills all the time.

I’d still like there to be gear, just no procs and probably a different CP system. I do agree that this would help alleviate the constant balance tail chasing that we find ourselves in.