Bash?

Lumenn

To breath new life to a nitch play style you tied bash dmg to power bash therefore giving them a spamable. Cool. Bash is a low cost, low dmg skill but why not? Then in the last patch you dropped bash dmg from 1500 to 500? If you sacrifice a whole 5 piece set AND an enchantment AND max out your skill line what did bash do? 3k? 3.5k dmg if you completely built for it? (I'm not at home so can't run the numbers) Your 7 trait craft set at base adds 950 dmg. You dropped 1000dmg. Yes, you cut bash cost by 10% on an low cost skill.

I don't have a bash set but was considering it but I'm not seeing anything in the 5 piece set that would make it worth it just to break even to before the nerf, not compared to other sets.

I do wish sword and board got more respect for dps though. Bludgeon with a giant mace and we bypass armor np. Fight with a maneuverable heavy shield and you got nothing. Yes, it gives more defense. So do special traits on even light armor. So do Magicka shields etc. But we don't cut dps on any other defense ability/set except sword and board. Imagine the outrage if you cast a Magicka shield and your dps dropped by a third, or used reinforced/nirn but it drops dps for every piece it's on. Oh well

Edit, punct.

Treeshka

I just wish bash has never nerfed down at the first place by eighty percent.

Mayrael

OP I don't think you fully understand the reasons behind that decision. They've done this because bash builds could do more damage than DPS builds while also having huge resistances. We shouldn't have both.

Lumenn

Treeshka wrote: »

I just wish bash has never nerfed down at the first place by eighty percent.

And now they just did it again by 66% for a spamable to "help" bash builds....I admit I'm baffled and am missing the logic somewhere @ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_GinaBruno can you relay the "nitch" communities confusion regarding this last minute nerf?

Lumenn

Mayrael wrote: »

OP I don't think you fully understand the reasons behind that decision. They've done this because bash builds could do more damage than DPS builds while also having huge resistances. We shouldn't have both.

Cool. Then add a dps penalty to Magicka shields, defense traits. If my hit with a shield does nothing, your block with a staff or sword should be nerfed to nothing. Logic right? Let's just make it simple, the more resistance you have, the less dps.

Fact is I've seen many dps builds still sport high resistance/defense.(just look in cyro) If a robe wearing Magicka player can dps and use Magicka shields, or sets can automatically give you shields w/o pushing a button bash builds can be dps. You build for it and sacrifice a set/enchantment. I don't see why a wooden shield is penalized but your forcefield or defensive traits aren't.

Lumenn

So I just looked up the enchantment (I didn't remember it's a jewelry enchantment) so you can get a bit more dmg than I thought, but you have to actively build for ONE skill, that's just been nerfed another 66% if you give up your 3 jewelry enchantments(any regens, weapon/spell damage whatever floats your boat).

Bash NEEDS to do more dmg not less. If I give up overall weapon damage to build for one skill, a 5 PC set for one skill, cp for one skill, and it only does a few k more than a light attack with a mace? I should just build for dps, match that number, and get stamina back for my swing rather than cost(however negligible) stamina. Can bash crit? any of our gurus here know?

As I said before I don't have one but was considering it, (dev you're right it's definitely nitch, you give up a LOT for just one skill.) Thanks for the spamable I guess?

Sleep724

Yea, I don’t understand Zos logic here. Bash was already a niche play style. It was the spammable, not something else. They could of just changed the resentment mechanic on power slam into what it is on the pts now and leave bash alone.

katorga

Mayrael wrote: »

OP I don't think you fully understand the reasons behind that decision. They've done this because bash builds could do more damage than DPS builds while also having huge resistances. We shouldn't have both.

Is it really that much of an issue compared to my ability to run into a crowd with a bomb build and getting 20-30 simultaneous kills?

Bash builds are niche and inefficient. The new powerbash SKILL may be overtuned and do too much damage, but the core ability bash is meh. If powerbash does too much damage, adjust the skill, not nerf the entire core ability.

jecks33

there is a fresh 114k dps bash parse on youtube from Skinny Cheeks

https://youtube.com/watch?v=QT2n-AfwIIc

Lumenn

jecks33 wrote: »

there is a fresh 114k dps bash parse on youtube from Skinny Cheeks

https://youtube.com/watch?v=QT2n-AfwIIc

In the video he also explains that was before being nerfed, and is guessing that instead of the 4k from bash NOW you MIGHT get 2k optimal.

OBJnoob

Bash ignores the normal gcd system and can be done 3 times a second. That's why it was nerfed by 66%.

Lumenn

OBJnoob wrote: »

Bash ignores the normal gcd system and can be done 3 times a second. That's why it was nerfed by 66%.

You can wipe out 20-30 people off one proc, at a distance, from stealth, at no resource cost, but a bash you completely sacrifice everything for to build one skill, have to be in position, and keeping your opponent in one place while you just bash until your out of stamina to avoid gcd is a concern? 👍

OBJnoob

Just trying to help you understand. Its not a coincidence that you can do it 3 times as often and they nerfed it by 2 of those 3rds.

I'm not trying to persuade you one way or the other it just seemed extremely relevant and nobody had mentioned it yet.

Lumenn

OBJnoob wrote: »

Just trying to help you understand. Its not a coincidence that you can do it 3 times as often and they nerfed it by 2 of those 3rds.

I'm not trying to persuade you one way or the other it just seemed extremely relevant and nobody had mentioned it yet.

I get ya. But you have to understand that they SEVERELY nerfed it in the past for that reason, and just did it again because they tied it to a skill to...breath life...into bash builds. Not because bash was too strong, but because tying it to a skill made the skill too strong. Nerf the skill, not the core, reverse it all, or better yet let bash shine. It isn't like theyre killing 30 people in seconds(a point I may add I don't disagree with, grenades, landmines, why not bomber builds. But that's a different thread 😋

katorga

jecks33 wrote: »

there is a fresh 114k dps bash parse on youtube from Skinny Cheeks

https://youtube.com/watch?v=QT2n-AfwIIc

Ah the famous LA/Skill/Bash weave. A miserable set of fingerwork to achieve lower pve dps than more common and easier to perform dps builds. It doesn't matter.

Powerbash, otoh, has been showing some massive numbers. Dropping a 30K powerbash is probably an issue for pvp, and pve, but that one is an odd duck, it scales off stats, not resistances like bash, but it also gets credit from bash sets, enchants, etc.

fripplethorn

Power Slam was a mistake. Instead of fixing the mistake, they gutted the build altogether. But they left Power Slam, lol. Which now hits for less than Molten Whip. AND to get it to come even close to whip, you give up healing, mobility, and sustain. Where whippers have nearly unlimited levels of it all. This was an uninformed overreaction to a few outlier screenshots of Power Slam on PvE mobs.

Same patch... Zos: We want to encourage niche builds. And Zos: guts Heavy Attack and Bash builds to non-viability.

It would be nice for the right hand and the left hand to get together and offer an actual explanation as to why the niche builds were killed off while stupidly out of hand things like MagDK, permablock nonsense, Living Dark, and Dark Convergence spam are left running rampant.

/SMH

katorga

fripplethorn wrote: »

Same patch... Zos: We want to encourage niche builds. And Zos: guts Heavy Attack and Bash builds to non-viability.

Perfect summation.