So, can the double slotting requirement for summoned combat pets ever be change?

Jusey1

Probably my least favorite thing about being a Warden is that I can't use one of my Warden ultimates without sacrificing my back bar ultimate. It stresses me out heavily and this also applies to the Sorcerer summons too... I just don't understand the reasoning behind this at all. Should we get a change on this in some way?

Parrot1986

The change to do this would require some changes to the skills in line with other classes which summon pets/adds which remove the ability to have them as permanent spawned and require ongoing activation to keep them active.

This is the compromise warden bear and sorc pets have so changing the double slot you would need to change how you engage with them as well.

AcadianPaladin

I'm fine with the warden. I want my ultimate to help me all the time, not just when I tap my ultimate key. Bear does a good job of this. Plus, I never use the bear's special ability so my ult is always 500. So. . . I use the passive CP that gives me extra health regen based on how much ult I have. 2k health regen + whatever you normally have is a pretty nice passive HoT.

The sorc, on the other hand, is a problem. I have a long running magsorc and have tried it all. What I've decided is that sorc pets are not worth the skill slot cost by a wide margin so I run without pets. I'd love to be able to single bar sorc pets so they stay summoned when you go to the other bar, but to use their special ability you have to be on the bar you have them slotted to. For me, that would change the calculations enough to consider using sorc pets. Four slots for an ugly monkey and Miss Flappy is just too high a cost for me.

phaneub17_ESO

Think of how spell buffs work when changing instances like going into a new zone, entering a delve or dungeon; they drop off regardless of how much duration remains. If they were to make pet spells say have a 15 to 60 minute duration after casting, they would be despawned when changing zones among other things making their consistency less reliable and having to resummon them often.

I wouldn't be against them doing it that way, but I don't do hard enough content where summoning them repeatedly is a concern. To others it may be frustrating having to constantly summon the pets multiple times when changing hard locations or they expire in the middle of combat unexpectedly. Console players will need a better buff window to better accommodate the change as well so they can see when it's about to expire.

Hescrow

Transform pets as companions is it possible ?

WrathOfInnos

I'm sure it's possible to make pets indefinite while only having them on a single bar. Psijic Mend Wounds works fine like this, activate it from the back bar and it continues working after swapping to front. Similar story for Sorcerer's overload ultimate, so I see no technical limitation to a single barred Warden bear.

The question is whether it should be changed. On one hand Sorc and Warden are relatively weak compared to other classes currently, so it is a good time to buff them. However it would make pet builds mote dominant on both these classes, and as a result Sorc or Warden with no pets would remain terrible. Maybe allow single bar pets, but nerf their damage slightly to prevent it being mandatory. Then skills like Bound Aegis and Endless Fury could get a buff to help non-pet builds.

Jusey1

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

The question is whether it should be changed. On one hand Sorc and Warden are relatively weak compared to other classes currently, so it is a good time to buff them. However it would make pet builds mote dominant on both these classes, and as a result Sorc or Warden with no pets would remain terrible. Maybe allow single bar pets, but nerf their damage slightly to prevent it being mandatory. Then skills like Bound Aegis and Endless Fury could get a buff to help non-pet builds.

Honestly, I think a good start would to buff a few abilities across the board to help them back up, including this buff to the combat pets so that you no longer need to spend DOUBLE the slots for them, then nerf later if needed. In the case of the Warden's bear, the damage isn't that high to justify nerfing it after doing this change (especially since you would need to swap to the bar with the ultimate to actually use the bear's strongest attack anyways).

Removing this insane double bar requirement would be a big deal as it would open up the classes a bit more, especially Sorcerer and give more freedom of choice to the game, that ZOS is so much screaming about with the game these days.

BretonMage

Parrot1986 wrote: »

The change to do this would require some changes to the skills in line with other classes which summon pets/adds which remove the ability to have them as permanent spawned and require ongoing activation to keep them active.

This is the compromise warden bear and sorc pets have so changing the double slot you would need to change how you engage with them as well.

Yep. I don't like having to double bar the pets, but I definitely prefer it to having to resummon them, or having them nerfed (back) to Oblivion. I do remember complaining about it when I first started playing, but having thought about it over the years, this is probably the best and fairest solution still.

Ryuvain

I would probably go back to playing sorc if pets were single bar. I truly hate how necro pets work, since they are just a glorified dot/hot.

If they were single bar, I don't think it would be the end of the world as others put it. They're incredibly weak passively and do, at best, 1 normal dot skill worth of damage if you have both pets out. Using better dots instead of pets would still be better if you're going for max damage.

Necrotech_Master

Ryuvain wrote: »

I would probably go back to playing sorc if pets were single bar. I truly hate how necro pets work, since they are just a glorified dot/hot.

If they were single bar, I don't think it would be the end of the world as others put it. They're incredibly weak passively and do, at best, 1 normal dot skill worth of damage if you have both pets out. Using better dots instead of pets would still be better if you're going for max damage.

i also dislike most of the necromancer pets, i was extremely disappointed to find that i couldnt have permanently summoned pets like a sorc

and i also agree that they are nothing more than fancy looking dmg/healing, i mean the warden netch is considered a pet too, but its about as non-pet like as the necromancer wraith

MEBengalsFan2001

Jusey1 wrote: »

Probably my least favorite thing about being a Warden is that I can't use one of my Warden ultimates without sacrificing my back bar ultimate. It stresses me out heavily and this also applies to the Sorcerer summons too... I just don't understand the reasoning behind this at all. Should we get a change on this in some way?

I believe summoned pets should be treated like buffs if you swap bar when the pet is not on the bar. If you swap back to the bar where the pet is on, it resets the counter.

For instance, primary bar you have twilight. You go to the secondary bar, twilight now has a 25 second counter. If you stay on the secondary bar for 26 seconds your pet is unsummoned.

I would probably make the counter 12-16 seconds range. A lower timer forces players to keep to the bar that has the pet.

Jusey1

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

Jusey1 wrote: »

Probably my least favorite thing about being a Warden is that I can't use one of my Warden ultimates without sacrificing my back bar ultimate. It stresses me out heavily and this also applies to the Sorcerer summons too... I just don't understand the reasoning behind this at all. Should we get a change on this in some way?

I believe summoned pets should be treated like buffs if you swap bar when the pet is not on the bar. If you swap back to the bar where the pet is on, it resets the counter.

For instance, primary bar you have twilight. You go to the secondary bar, twilight now has a 25 second counter. If you stay on the secondary bar for 26 seconds your pet is unsummoned.

I would probably make the counter 12-16 seconds range. A lower timer forces players to keep to the bar that has the pet.

Honestly, I feel like 45 seconds would be better to give people time to use their backbar and get back to the frontbar asap, even if they get stunned. I think this idea is the best compromise ZOS can do if they don't want to remove the requirement. Allows player to keep them one bar while still able to use both bars effectively.

Finedaible

Honestly, I wish they would simply make all backbar slotted skills effectively "active" (as if they were front-barred), that way we could use pets and build for passives a little bit easier, and avoid confusion for new players regarding what "slotted" or "active" even mean.

Like, for example, there are times when I would like to increase my critical rating slightly via NB's Pressure Points passive yet it is not always optimal to have all of those skills on my front bar.

PvP_Exploiter

Then they would need to last as long as other single-bar pets, such as Netch, Dark Shade, and Skeletal Archer/Mage

Larcomar

It would be awfully nice. I remeber making a warden werewolf. Then realising ofc that, no, I couldn't have my bear too. That said, wardens don't have it too bad. Try being a sorc. The pet class. Running scamp and bird, you just have no bar space. Given you obv neew woe on the back bar, a spammable on the front bar and ofc crystal frags slotted, it is seriously limiting and gets kind of boring after a while.

duagloth

Id rather have necro pets be dbl bar and last longer

Jusey1

duagloth wrote: »

Id rather have necro pets be dbl bar and last longer

Please No.

MudcrabAttack

I really like the damage of the bear, kind of hate to see it get reduced

DrSlaughtr

It requires double bar because of the benefits you get with a perma side kick to help you kill things (and give big burst heals for sorcs.)

Consider what all you get in comparison to other class pets that only last a few seconds.

Jusey1

TheEndBringer wrote: »

It requires double bar because of the benefits you get with a perma side kick to help you kill things (and give big burst heals for sorcs.)

The big burst heals for sorcs requires activation of the ability, so that doesn't count. As for having side kicks, they aren't as useful for the sorcerer though. My last sorcerer I had did way much more dps without them, and he still had a burst heal through other means (you don't need the heal from the summons). It's not worth double slotting them. It's way much better to slot a full set of AOEs, passive buffs, and good spam-ables.

As for the Warden bear... It does helps a lot more, but being unable to have a secondary back-up ultimate is a huge deal. Compare to other ultimates that you could be having, the bear feels weak. This is probably one of the reasons why Wardens feel bad. They need the bear to help their dps but being forced to slot it twice also hurts as you still want a secondary ultimate for other reasons. So removing the requirement or at least giving us some time (such as 45 seconds) before the summon despawns would help a lot.

DrSlaughtr

Jusey1 wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

It requires double bar because of the benefits you get with a perma side kick to help you kill things (and give big burst heals for sorcs.)

The big burst heals for sorcs requires activation of the ability, so that doesn't count. As for having side kicks, they aren't as useful for the sorcerer though. My last sorcerer I had did way much more dps without them, and he still had a burst heal through other means (you don't need the heal from the summons). It's not worth double slotting them. It's way much better to slot a full set of AOEs, passive buffs, and good spam-ables.

As for the Warden bear... It does helps a lot more, but being unable to have a secondary back-up ultimate is a huge deal. Compare to other ultimates that you could be having, the bear feels weak. This is probably one of the reasons why Wardens feel bad. They need the bear to help their dps but being forced to slot it twice also hurts as you still want a secondary ultimate for other reasons. So removing the requirement or at least giving us some time (such as 45 seconds) before the summon despawns would help a lot.

I think you're missing the point. It has nothing to do with smacking a dummy. If you do higher fps without them then what's the issue? Unless you just want more more more without any give.

Look at unstable clan fear.

Command the powers of Oblivion to send a Daedric clannfear to fight at your side. The clannfear's headbutt deals 358 Physical Damage, while its tail spike hits nearby enemies for 358 Physical Damage after 1 second. Once summoned, you can activate the clannfear's special ability for 4500 Magicka, healing you for 5121 and the clannfear for 2560. The clannfear remains until killed or unsummoned.

Your little dino is doing direct damage, cone damage, and a big heal. You get all this nearly permanent. There's no running cost to having it active.

All the other pets and morphs offer similar big benefits and the only drawback is that you have to double bar it. If you could just single bar it you could run every pet available on your back bar. It would be ridiculous. I understand that players always want to expand the react of their characters but you have to look at the effect it would have in other areas of the game.

Amottica

The issue is those pets requiring a double slot are essentially permanently summoned and we press the slot to activate the special attack vs summoning them again. This is an important distinction and cannot be changed. The player needs to be able to control the healing matriarch's heal and the little scamp does AoE damage as its special attack vs single target. The Warden's bear also has a special attack that costs ultimate and would essentially be worthless without that.

The summons for the Necromancer are all short-term summons and have no special ability to activate. It is a very different design.

So the answer to the question seems to be a no.

Ryuvain

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Jusey1 wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

It requires double bar because of the benefits you get with a perma side kick to help you kill things (and give big burst heals for sorcs.)

The big burst heals for sorcs requires activation of the ability, so that doesn't count. As for having side kicks, they aren't as useful for the sorcerer though. My last sorcerer I had did way much more dps without them, and he still had a burst heal through other means (you don't need the heal from the summons). It's not worth double slotting them. It's way much better to slot a full set of AOEs, passive buffs, and good spam-ables.

As for the Warden bear... It does helps a lot more, but being unable to have a secondary back-up ultimate is a huge deal. Compare to other ultimates that you could be having, the bear feels weak. This is probably one of the reasons why Wardens feel bad. They need the bear to help their dps but being forced to slot it twice also hurts as you still want a secondary ultimate for other reasons. So removing the requirement or at least giving us some time (such as 45 seconds) before the summon despawns would help a lot.

I think you're missing the point. It has nothing to do with smacking a dummy. If you do higher fps without them then what's the issue? Unless you just want more more more without any give.

Look at unstable clan fear.

Command the powers of Oblivion to send a Daedric clannfear to fight at your side. The clannfear's headbutt deals 358 Physical Damage, while its tail spike hits nearby enemies for 358 Physical Damage after 1 second. Once summoned, you can activate the clannfear's special ability for 4500 Magicka, healing you for 5121 and the clannfear for 2560. The clannfear remains until killed or unsummoned.

Your little dino is doing direct damage, cone damage, and a big heal. You get all this nearly permanent. There's no running cost to having it active.

All the other pets and morphs offer similar big benefits and the only drawback is that you have to double bar it. If you could just single bar it you could run every pet available on your back bar. It would be ridiculous. I understand that players always want to expand the react of their characters but you have to look at the effect it would have in other areas of the game.

Can we stop acting like pet passive damage is amazing? They're seriously weak and the main reason to run them is their actives.

Amottica

Ryuvain wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Jusey1 wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

It requires double bar because of the benefits you get with a perma side kick to help you kill things (and give big burst heals for sorcs.)

The big burst heals for sorcs requires activation of the ability, so that doesn't count. As for having side kicks, they aren't as useful for the sorcerer though. My last sorcerer I had did way much more dps without them, and he still had a burst heal through other means (you don't need the heal from the summons). It's not worth double slotting them. It's way much better to slot a full set of AOEs, passive buffs, and good spam-ables.

As for the Warden bear... It does helps a lot more, but being unable to have a secondary back-up ultimate is a huge deal. Compare to other ultimates that you could be having, the bear feels weak. This is probably one of the reasons why Wardens feel bad. They need the bear to help their dps but being forced to slot it twice also hurts as you still want a secondary ultimate for other reasons. So removing the requirement or at least giving us some time (such as 45 seconds) before the summon despawns would help a lot.

I think you're missing the point. It has nothing to do with smacking a dummy. If you do higher fps without them then what's the issue? Unless you just want more more more without any give.

Look at unstable clan fear.

Command the powers of Oblivion to send a Daedric clannfear to fight at your side. The clannfear's headbutt deals 358 Physical Damage, while its tail spike hits nearby enemies for 358 Physical Damage after 1 second. Once summoned, you can activate the clannfear's special ability for 4500 Magicka, healing you for 5121 and the clannfear for 2560. The clannfear remains until killed or unsummoned.

Your little dino is doing direct damage, cone damage, and a big heal. You get all this nearly permanent. There's no running cost to having it active.

All the other pets and morphs offer similar big benefits and the only drawback is that you have to double bar it. If you could just single bar it you could run every pet available on your back bar. It would be ridiculous. I understand that players always want to expand the react of their characters but you have to look at the effect it would have in other areas of the game.

Can we stop acting like pet passive damage is amazing? They're seriously weak and the main reason to run them is their actives.

But the fact remains that there is a clear requirement to activate the summons for the special attack that cannot be changed. The Warden is the prime example that this requirement since it would become a free ultimate otherwise.

It is also good to have different design and not make everything the same. The sorc summons are good designs and work well.

BXR_Lonestar

Jusey1 wrote: »

Probably my least favorite thing about being a Warden is that I can't use one of my Warden ultimates without sacrificing my back bar ultimate. It stresses me out heavily and this also applies to the Sorcerer summons too... I just don't understand the reasoning behind this at all. Should we get a change on this in some way?

The only way they can make "double-barring pets" not a thing is if those pets have a duration. That's not fun either IMO. Think of how "pets" work for Necro's. Just not really great IMO.

DrSlaughtr

Ryuvain wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Jusey1 wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

It requires double bar because of the benefits you get with a perma side kick to help you kill things (and give big burst heals for sorcs.)

The big burst heals for sorcs requires activation of the ability, so that doesn't count. As for having side kicks, they aren't as useful for the sorcerer though. My last sorcerer I had did way much more dps without them, and he still had a burst heal through other means (you don't need the heal from the summons). It's not worth double slotting them. It's way much better to slot a full set of AOEs, passive buffs, and good spam-ables.

As for the Warden bear... It does helps a lot more, but being unable to have a secondary back-up ultimate is a huge deal. Compare to other ultimates that you could be having, the bear feels weak. This is probably one of the reasons why Wardens feel bad. They need the bear to help their dps but being forced to slot it twice also hurts as you still want a secondary ultimate for other reasons. So removing the requirement or at least giving us some time (such as 45 seconds) before the summon despawns would help a lot.

I think you're missing the point. It has nothing to do with smacking a dummy. If you do higher fps without them then what's the issue? Unless you just want more more more without any give.

Look at unstable clan fear.

Command the powers of Oblivion to send a Daedric clannfear to fight at your side. The clannfear's headbutt deals 358 Physical Damage, while its tail spike hits nearby enemies for 358 Physical Damage after 1 second. Once summoned, you can activate the clannfear's special ability for 4500 Magicka, healing you for 5121 and the clannfear for 2560. The clannfear remains until killed or unsummoned.

Your little dino is doing direct damage, cone damage, and a big heal. You get all this nearly permanent. There's no running cost to having it active.

All the other pets and morphs offer similar big benefits and the only drawback is that you have to double bar it. If you could just single bar it you could run every pet available on your back bar. It would be ridiculous. I understand that players always want to expand the react of their characters but you have to look at the effect it would have in other areas of the game.

Can we stop acting like pet passive damage is amazing? They're seriously weak and the main reason to run them is their actives.

It doesn't have to be amazing. It doesn't have to add 10k to your DPS. That's not what they're meant to do. They aren't many to play the game for you. They are essentially companions. They never go away. You can agro npcs for you. You can direct them to stack other targets. You can user them as shields. Just because they don't hit for 5k+ damage a swipe didn't mean they aren't beneficial. It's also part of their class identity.

Either they're the way they are now or they are summoned for 10 seconds then go away.

Jusey1

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

The only way they can make "double-barring pets" not a thing is if those pets have a duration.

No, they don't need to give them a duration at all. They can still be active without double-barring and wouldn't be hard to code or do. We already have other abilities that stays active permaly even after you bar swapped.

Amottica wrote: »

But the fact remains that there is a clear requirement to activate the summons for the special attack that cannot be changed. The Warden is the prime example that this requirement since it would become a free ultimate otherwise.

Your argument makes no sense though because the active ability party of a summon REQUIRES you to activate it yourself, so you still need to swap back to the bar that has your summon anyways. It isn't a "free ultimate otherwise". It's just it's own ultimate, just like any other, but requires to be double barred for no good reason.

This also applies to the Sorc summons. They offer very little as a passive, especially compare to other passives you can get, and are mostly used for their active abilities, not to have them passively. This double bar nonsense is just unnecessary. With the Sorcerer especially since the pets don't actually do enough to justify double barring them.

The bear is a bit more tolerable but still makes the Warden class suffer too much cause giving up both ultimate slots to one is severely harmful to your kit as you are losing out on using one of many good ultimates.

TheEndBringer wrote: »

If you could just single bar it you could run every pet available on your back bar. It would be ridiculous.

If it becomes an issue like this, they could just give them a cooldown mechanic from despawning when swapping bars like mentioned plenty of times in this thread, such as if you swap off they will stay only for like 45 seconds before automatic despawning. This will make them still require to be on your active bar, but you don't need to double bar them anymore as you can use your backbar for buffs and debuffs, while keeping your main ability usage on the front bar with your summons.

Ryuvain

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Ryuvain wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Jusey1 wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

It requires double bar because of the benefits you get with a perma side kick to help you kill things (and give big burst heals for sorcs.)

The big burst heals for sorcs requires activation of the ability, so that doesn't count. As for having side kicks, they aren't as useful for the sorcerer though. My last sorcerer I had did way much more dps without them, and he still had a burst heal through other means (you don't need the heal from the summons). It's not worth double slotting them. It's way much better to slot a full set of AOEs, passive buffs, and good spam-ables.

As for the Warden bear... It does helps a lot more, but being unable to have a secondary back-up ultimate is a huge deal. Compare to other ultimates that you could be having, the bear feels weak. This is probably one of the reasons why Wardens feel bad. They need the bear to help their dps but being forced to slot it twice also hurts as you still want a secondary ultimate for other reasons. So removing the requirement or at least giving us some time (such as 45 seconds) before the summon despawns would help a lot.

I think you're missing the point. It has nothing to do with smacking a dummy. If you do higher fps without them then what's the issue? Unless you just want more more more without any give.

Look at unstable clan fear.

Command the powers of Oblivion to send a Daedric clannfear to fight at your side. The clannfear's headbutt deals 358 Physical Damage, while its tail spike hits nearby enemies for 358 Physical Damage after 1 second. Once summoned, you can activate the clannfear's special ability for 4500 Magicka, healing you for 5121 and the clannfear for 2560. The clannfear remains until killed or unsummoned.

Your little dino is doing direct damage, cone damage, and a big heal. You get all this nearly permanent. There's no running cost to having it active.

All the other pets and morphs offer similar big benefits and the only drawback is that you have to double bar it. If you could just single bar it you could run every pet available on your back bar. It would be ridiculous. I understand that players always want to expand the react of their characters but you have to look at the effect it would have in other areas of the game.

Can we stop acting like pet passive damage is amazing? They're seriously weak and the main reason to run them is their actives.

It doesn't have to be amazing. It doesn't have to add 10k to your DPS. That's not what they're meant to do. They aren't many to play the game for you. They are essentially companions. They never go away. You can agro npcs for you. You can direct them to stack other targets. You can user them as shields. Just because they don't hit for 5k+ damage a swipe didn't mean they aren't beneficial. It's also part of their class identity.

Either they're the way they are now or they are summoned for 10 seconds then go away.

Who said I wanted them to play the game for me?

They don't aggro in trails or queue.

They seriously only do half a real dot skills worth of damage passive, and that's being generous. Slot both and you pay 4 bars for 1 dot.


I don't hate pets, in fact my main is a sorc. Stopped playing them since pets weren't fun anymore due to overnerfs. Necro pets are even worse due to just being a walking dot/hot.

Also who says they have to be this way or like necro? You know the devs?

I just want pets to be decent again. Them being untargetable during dungeons/trails makes them feel inconsistent. They could've make them much tankier during those instead.

I even think necro pets would be better off being targetable. But along with that increase their power.

DrSlaughtr

Ryuvain wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Ryuvain wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Jusey1 wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

It requires double bar because of the benefits you get with a perma side kick to help you kill things (and give big burst heals for sorcs.)

The big burst heals for sorcs requires activation of the ability, so that doesn't count. As for having side kicks, they aren't as useful for the sorcerer though. My last sorcerer I had did way much more dps without them, and he still had a burst heal through other means (you don't need the heal from the summons). It's not worth double slotting them. It's way much better to slot a full set of AOEs, passive buffs, and good spam-ables.

As for the Warden bear... It does helps a lot more, but being unable to have a secondary back-up ultimate is a huge deal. Compare to other ultimates that you could be having, the bear feels weak. This is probably one of the reasons why Wardens feel bad. They need the bear to help their dps but being forced to slot it twice also hurts as you still want a secondary ultimate for other reasons. So removing the requirement or at least giving us some time (such as 45 seconds) before the summon despawns would help a lot.

I think you're missing the point. It has nothing to do with smacking a dummy. If you do higher fps without them then what's the issue? Unless you just want more more more without any give.

Look at unstable clan fear.

Command the powers of Oblivion to send a Daedric clannfear to fight at your side. The clannfear's headbutt deals 358 Physical Damage, while its tail spike hits nearby enemies for 358 Physical Damage after 1 second. Once summoned, you can activate the clannfear's special ability for 4500 Magicka, healing you for 5121 and the clannfear for 2560. The clannfear remains until killed or unsummoned.

Your little dino is doing direct damage, cone damage, and a big heal. You get all this nearly permanent. There's no running cost to having it active.

All the other pets and morphs offer similar big benefits and the only drawback is that you have to double bar it. If you could just single bar it you could run every pet available on your back bar. It would be ridiculous. I understand that players always want to expand the react of their characters but you have to look at the effect it would have in other areas of the game.

Can we stop acting like pet passive damage is amazing? They're seriously weak and the main reason to run them is their actives.

It doesn't have to be amazing. It doesn't have to add 10k to your DPS. That's not what they're meant to do. They aren't many to play the game for you. They are essentially companions. They never go away. You can agro npcs for you. You can direct them to stack other targets. You can user them as shields. Just because they don't hit for 5k+ damage a swipe didn't mean they aren't beneficial. It's also part of their class identity.

Either they're the way they are now or they are summoned for 10 seconds then go away.

Who said I wanted them to play the game for me?

They don't aggro in trails or queue.

They seriously only do half a real dot skills worth of damage passive, and that's being generous. Slot both and you pay 4 bars for 1 dot.


I don't hate pets, in fact my main is a sorc. Stopped playing them since pets weren't fun anymore due to overnerfs. Necro pets are even worse due to just being a walking dot/hot.

Also who says they have to be this way or like necro? You know the devs?

I just want pets to be decent again. Them being untargetable during dungeons/trails makes them feel inconsistent. They could've make them much tankier during those instead.

I even think necro pets would be better off being targetable. But along with that increase their power.

Who says? Pretty much everyone. If you could just back bar them as is, you would have zero drawback from running multiple pets. You'd flip back to get your burst heal or whatever damage morph you use, meanwhile they are fighting for you, and whether you like it or not, respectfully, it DOES make a difference. And yes, they absolutely CAN agro for you if you do it right. Not to mention the whole directing them to attack off targets with heavy attacks while you focus on the main target.

They require double bars for multiple reasons, as I have pointed out. One, they do damage, even if you choose the heal morphs. This damage DOES MATTER in both PVE and PVP. Just because they aren't hitting for 5k a pop doesn't mean their damage doesn't hurt or stack with your damage to help you kill targets. It does. If it was completely inconsequential I would never see pets. I see them all the time.

If you could just stick pets on your backbar, nothing is stopping you from running practically all of them while not compromising your attack bar. This means you would have total access to your full damage, as well as access to multiple pet damages, AND run necropotence to completely juice you up with no drawbacks.

I'm sorry if you can't see this side of it. No one forces you to run pets on a sorc. They are completely optional. And yet still, despite sorcs being able to run and gun without pets, people still run them in PVP, the land where "I run this for RP purposes" never works. Twilight Matriarch is in the top 3 burst heals in the game while ALSO attacking for you the entire time!

But hey, maybe we just don't see eye to eye on this, and that's okay too. Have a good day!

Jestir

The double bar requirement for the sorcerer pets are a huge part of the reason they are most popular new player class in the game

It simplifies the build, gives new players some damage that can somewhat carry them before they even know what a light attack or bar swap is, survivability when solo and strong passives

What they should do is give some other tools in their class kit enough oomph so that no pet builds aren’t a straight loss or can even outperform pet builds, not change how the pets work (outside of the horrendous pet AI, and how they physically block other players from interacting with things)

Jusey1

Bleakz wrote: »

What they should do is give some other tools in their class kit enough oomph so that no pet builds aren’t a straight loss or can even outperform pet builds, not change how the pets work (outside of the horrendous pet AI, and how they physically block other players from interacting with things)

Except no pet builds is better by default simply because you have more abilities. The Sorcerer pets needs work. I see no reason to waste bar space for pets right now, none. Especially more so once Update 33 comes out.