The New Time Gate of Leveling Undaunted (Fixed in PTS Patch 7.3.4)

ThreeToedPoli

UPDATED!!!
As of Patch 7.3.4 the values of completing pledges and quests has been increased, as well as adding trail completions to the list of things to award Undaunted exp. Here is the list:



This changes the below calculations quite drastically, as the completion of every dungeon story quest In the game will give 1200 Exp, which is pretty much undaunted 9 by itself.

So anything else underneath this sentence is older information.
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Honestly I'm not very good at structuring long form posts but I believe that this subject should have more light shone on it, so here goes.

With the new Account Wide Achievement system being added into game there has been a few questionable applications, which I won't get in to here, but I would like to lay out the Undaunted changes for all to see.

On Live you currently earn undaunted through a mixture of achievements and quests, namely pledges and completing dungeons. The thing is, there are a lot of extra achievements that you can complete for bonus undaunted. A good couple examples are Vateshran Hollows achievements and the miscellaneous dungeon achievements such as "Dungeon Damage Dealer" and "Dungeon Healer". These achievements can earn you anything from 5 to 40 skill leveling each, which at the early stages can help unlock skills, and at the late stage can help to get those final few points. Pledges earn you 10 for a normal difficulty completion, 20 for a completion on vet hard mode.

On PTS these achievements have been all removed, and have been replaced with a one and done 10 skill line experience for completing the dungeon quest. This means that from completing all the dungeons within the game (base game and DLC) you gain 480 Undaunted. Pledges were supposed to get an increase of skill gained, but it's week 4 of the pts and they are still the same as on live. So assuming (dangerous to do as they could change this) this is set in stone, people are hard now capped at how much undaunted they could earn in a day.

Using an example of 2 entirely fresh characters who have never set foot in a dungeon before:

On live:
Player A accepts a pledge for Fungal Grotto 1
Completes Speed Run(10), No death(10) , Hard Mode(10), Completion(10) and vet completion(10) achievements
Completes Dungeon Quest
Hans in hard mode pledge quest completion(20)
Earns a total of 70 undaunted points


On PTS:
Player B accepts a pledge for Fungal Grotto 1
Completes Speed Run, No death , Hard Mode, Completion and vet completion achievements
Completes Dungeon Quest(10)
Hans in hard mode pledge quest completion(20)
Earns a total of 30 undaunted points

I'm not sure how other people honestly feel about these changes, but I feel that the downside to this change is too great. It will adversely affect new players and old players alike, with players forced to have a grind like never before.

What does everyone else think? Is there an upside I am missing?

EDIT:
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EDIT 2:
As mentioned by PeacefulAnarchy later in the thread, you can share Bolgrul's Undaunted delve quests, meaning you can actually earn a maximum of 210 undaunted exp per day, which is also available to do on Live.

FrancisCrawford

The obvious workaround is to spend crowns for the unlock.

deleted221106-002999

Apparently they intend to adjust the pledge reward upwards but like OP I've not seen this implemented.

As far as I know, the players that know about these incoming changes are rushing to complete undaunted and a few other things before this sorry mess goes live.

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

The obvious workaround is to spend crowns for the unlock.

Yes, indeed. Funny how that solution appears to be the simplest and most expedient. You could almost imagine it was by design.

Jaimeh

There's also the ''this one's on me achieve'' that gave considerable points, I suppose this gets removes as well?

zsitvaij

Jaimeh wrote: »

There's also the ''this one's on me achieve'' that gave considerable points, I suppose this gets removes as well?

Removed? Of course not! The achievement is there to earn a single time!

Giving points? Even once? Of course not!

Enjoy the grind : D

Zezin

ThreeToedPoli wrote: »

Honestly I'm not very good at structuring long form posts but I believe that this subject should have more light shone on it, so here goes.

With the new Account Wide Achievement system being added into game there has been a few questionable applications, which I won't get in to here, but I would like to lay out the Undaunted changes for all to see.

On Live you currently earn undaunted through a mixture of achievements and quests, namely pledges and completing dungeons. The thing is, there are a lot of extra achievements that you can complete for bonus undaunted. A good couple examples are Vateshran Hollows achievements and the miscellaneous dungeon achievements such as "Dungeon Damage Dealer" and "Dungeon Healer". These achievements can earn you anything from 5 to 40 skill leveling each, which at the early stages can help unlock skills, and at the late stage can help to get those final few points. Pledges earn you 10 for a normal difficulty completion, 20 for a completion on vet hard mode.

On PTS these achievements have been all removed, and have been replaced with a one and done 10 skill line experience for completing the dungeon quest. This means that from completing all the dungeons within the game (base game and DLC) you gain 480 Undaunted. Pledges were supposed to get an increase of skill gained, but it's week 4 of the pts and they are still the same as on live. So assuming (dangerous to do as they could change this) this is set in stone, people are hard now capped at how much undaunted they could earn in a day.

So using Undaunted 9 as the end goal of leveling, it takes 1300 exp to unlock, which on the PTS will take 12 days of Hard mode pledges to unlock the at earliest.

Using an example of 2 entirely fresh characters who have never set foot in a dungeon before:

On live:
Player A accepts a pledge for Fungal Grotto 1
Completes Speed Run(10), No death(10) , Hard Mode(10), Completion(10) and vet completion(10) achievements
Completes Dungeon Quest
Hans in hard mode pledge quest completion(20)
Earns a total of 70 undaunted points


On PTS:
Player B accepts a pledge for Fungal Grotto 1
Completes Speed Run, No death , Hard Mode, Completion and vet completion achievements
Completes Dungeon Quest(10)
Hans in hard mode pledge quest completion(20)
Earns a total of 30 undaunted points

I'm not sure how other people honestly feel about these changes, but I feel that the downside to this change is too great. It will adversely affect new players and old players alike, with players forced to have a grind like never before.

What does everyone else think? Is there an upside I am missing?

EDIT:
Sorry I forgot to mention the absolute hard cap of earning undaunted would be 70 a day.

On the Q&A they stated that they will give xp on the completion of the dungeon quest.

PeacefulAnarchy

ThreeToedPoli wrote: »

Sorry I forgot to mention the absolute hard cap of earning undaunted would be 70 a day.

You can do multiple delve dailes a day, there are 15 of them. If your goal is to grind undaunted ASAP that's 150 a day with no dungeons.

Zezin wrote: »

ThreeToedPoli wrote: »

This means that from completing all the dungeons within the game (base game and DLC) you gain 480 Undaunted. .

On the Q&A they stated that they will give xp on the completion of the dungeon quest.

That's the 480, 48 dungeons*10 for quest completion.

ThreeToedPoli

Zezin wrote: »

On the Q&A they stated that they will give xp on the completion of the dungeon quest.

Yes, I mention that, the completion on the quest is worth 10 points.

The more I think about this the worse it feels, people have rightly mentioned that it could be a financially based change. The only thing about that is you can only target people who have already unlocked undaunted 10, so it's a case of trying to milk long time players as much as they can? This is the first time I think they have actually nerfed leveling of a skill you can buy in the Crown Store, Fighters Guild, Mages Guild and Psijic all are they same length of grind since their inception or at least One Tamriel.

ThreeToedPoli

PeacefulAnarchy wrote: »

You can do multiple delve dailes a day, there are 15 of them. If your goal is to grind undaunted ASAP that's 150 a day with no dungeons.

Oh thank God I forgot something, It's been so long since I've shared one of those quests that I forgot they were even shareable!

KMarble

PeacefulAnarchy wrote: »

ThreeToedPoli wrote: »

Sorry I forgot to mention the absolute hard cap of earning undaunted would be 70 a day.

You can do multiple delve dailes a day, there are 15 of them. If your goal is to grind undaunted ASAP that's 150 a day with no dungeons.

There is a limit of 50 dailies max/day

Zezin

KMarble wrote: »

PeacefulAnarchy wrote: »

ThreeToedPoli wrote: »

Sorry I forgot to mention the absolute hard cap of earning undaunted would be 70 a day.

You can do multiple delve dailes a day, there are 15 of them. If your goal is to grind undaunted ASAP that's 150 a day with no dungeons.

There is a limit of 50 dailies max/day

Are writs included in that? Because I'm pretty sure I do way more than that on my account.

spartaxoxo

Zezin wrote: »

KMarble wrote: »

PeacefulAnarchy wrote: »

ThreeToedPoli wrote: »

Sorry I forgot to mention the absolute hard cap of earning undaunted would be 70 a day.

You can do multiple delve dailes a day, there are 15 of them. If your goal is to grind undaunted ASAP that's 150 a day with no dungeons.

There is a limit of 50 dailies max/day

Are writs included in that? Because I'm pretty sure I do way more than that on my account.

Yes. 50 per character max, not account.

Zezin

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Zezin wrote: »

KMarble wrote: »

PeacefulAnarchy wrote: »

ThreeToedPoli wrote: »

Sorry I forgot to mention the absolute hard cap of earning undaunted would be 70 a day.

You can do multiple delve dailes a day, there are 15 of them. If your goal is to grind undaunted ASAP that's 150 a day with no dungeons.

There is a limit of 50 dailies max/day

Are writs included in that? Because I'm pretty sure I do way more than that on my account.

Yes. 50 per character max, not account.

Honestly I don't think I have time in my day to do that many 😅 but that's just me.

KMarble

Zezin wrote: »

KMarble wrote: »

PeacefulAnarchy wrote: »

ThreeToedPoli wrote: »

Sorry I forgot to mention the absolute hard cap of earning undaunted would be 70 a day.

You can do multiple delve dailes a day, there are 15 of them. If your goal is to grind undaunted ASAP that's 150 a day with no dungeons.

There is a limit of 50 dailies max/day

Are writs included in that? Because I'm pretty sure I do way more than that on my account.

yes. all dailies are. It's 50/day/char. Before you say all people have to do is do 50 undaunted dailies on 3 chars (or whatever other number that adds to 150) let me remind me that you have to level the skill line per character. That part won't be shared.

kringled_1

Sharing the delve dailies will get you further than 10/day but realistically you won't get to 150/day unless you have a pool of 40-50 people on tap willing to look.

zsitvaij

kringled_1 wrote: »

Sharing the delve dailies will get you further than 10/day but realistically you won't get to 150/day unless you have a pool of 40-50 people on tap willing to look.

I have every undaunted/mg/fg daily distributed to alt accounts that I can share back to myself, but somehow I don't see myself actually doing so again.

Lauranae

humm something i dont undersand i guess.

I have maxed undaunted. And thought i was done.

Are they removing the one i completed and asking me to level again the line ?

PeacefulAnarchy

Lauranae wrote: »

humm something i dont undersand i guess.

I have maxed undaunted. And thought i was done.

Are they removing the one i completed and asking me to level again the line ?

No, it's about people leveling new alts.

zsitvaij

PeacefulAnarchy wrote: »

No, it's about people leveling new alts.

And it's not like people will continue that after this, LOL, what would even be the point? Just to hurt yourself on leveling antiquities/undaunted point by single point?

Zezin

zsitvaij wrote: »

PeacefulAnarchy wrote: »

No, it's about people leveling new alts.

And it's not like people will continue that after this, LOL, what would even be the point? Just to hurt yourself on leveling antiquities/undaunted point by single point?

To play a new class? It's not just about role play you know, the game has dungeons, trials, PvP, solo arenas etc.

Lauranae

PeacefulAnarchy wrote: »

Lauranae wrote: »

humm something i dont undersand i guess.

I have maxed undaunted. And thought i was done.

Are they removing the one i completed and asking me to level again the line ?

No, it's about people leveling new alts.

Thank you!! as for alt, if i decide to play their way, i will just spend my subs to buy the full undaunted line. That is certain that i will not go through all this again.

Lauranae

What is happening of the main story and achievements ? Does that mean we dont have to redo this ?

Zezin

Lauranae wrote: »

What is happening of the main story and achievements ? Does that mean we dont have to redo this ?

Just the achievements, you still have to do the quests and such for stuff like skill points.

Lauranae

OK. Thank you! i get it better. The explanations are not so clear from ZOS. i wish they would have explained all that way better and not with such short delay.

KittyHazWares

This is a good thing for people like me.. Because when I make a new toon for say, PvP, I don’t feel like leveling PvE skills to be decent and usually people in dungeon queue die 20 times and never get a speed or no death. There’s no person I know that would want to spend all day helping someone do dungeons that aren’t the pledges just to level undaunted. It’s easy on newer players and “solo” people to do normal dungeon quest. I just buy the line because it’s such a pain.

Saieden

Here is some more detailed math I did a while back. Even if they double or triple the XP, I don't think this is remotely acceptable. Bear in mind these all assuming you do these things every day. This is only to get to Undaunted level 9 for the final passive unlock:

Delve: 10 (150 per day possible)
N/Vet: 10
HM: 20
Quests: 10 each (240 base game, 240 DLC as of U33 )

0 quests before 45, HM base pledges, normal dlc:
1300 / 90 = 14 days, 40 remaining.

Average player levelling an alt. All base game quests before 45, Base HMs, Normal DLC, 1 delve:
(1300 - 240) / 70 = 15 days, 10 remaining.

Super vets doing 3 HM pledges, base quests done, no delves:
(1300 - 240) / 70 = 15 days + 10 remaining

For new players, having done all base quests by 45 (Normal pledges and 1 delve, no DLC/ESO plus):
(1300 - 240) / 30 = 35 days, 10 remaining.

For new players, having done all base quests by 45 (Normal pledges and 1 delve, + DLC):
(1300 - 240) / 50 = 21 days, 10 remaining.

Fastest, Daily Delve Group Grind (15 player quest share), all base game quests completed, all HM pledges:
(1300 - 240) / 220 = 4 days, 180 remaining.

ajkb78

ThreeToedPoli wrote: »

PeacefulAnarchy wrote: »

You can do multiple delve dailes a day, there are 15 of them. If your goal is to grind undaunted ASAP that's 150 a day with no dungeons.

Oh thank God I forgot something, It's been so long since I've shared one of those quests that I forgot they were even shareable!

It's a pain in the ass though, because hardly anyone shares them. Maybe that will change, but I'd like it better if they made it so that you could just get all 15 each day, one after another, without having to rely on quest sharing. This is the way Cyrodiil town quests work.

KMarble

zsitvaij wrote: »

PeacefulAnarchy wrote: »

No, it's about people leveling new alts.

And it's not like people will continue that after this, LOL, what would even be the point? Just to hurt yourself on leveling antiquities/undaunted point by single point?

?

I don't think I understand what you're saying.

I leveled up my first character on all skill lines for fun (I had no idea what I was doing, so I did everything), but as I began to understand the game better, I was planning on leveling certain skill lines on certain characters because they're useful depending on the role I play.

Wolfpaw

KittyHazWares wrote: »

This is a good thing for people like me.. Because when I make a new toon for say, PvP, I don’t feel like leveling PvE skills to be decent and usually people in dungeon queue die 20 times and never get a speed or no death. There’s no person I know that would want to spend all day helping someone do dungeons that aren’t the pledges just to level undaunted. It’s easy on newer players and “solo” people to do normal dungeon quest. I just buy the line because it’s such a pain.

Yup best crown purchase, even now.

kringled_1

So the 7.3.4 notes finally update this aspect and on the face of it, it should be quicker to level undaunted on a new character. They actually adjusted the amounts gained up over where I thought would be close to live. The addition of trials is also nice here.

ThreeToedPoli