Daily crafting writs

Kwik1

I am wondering if there is any big reason to actually use skill points to raise my crafting skills for doing daily crafting quests. I have 12 toons all maxed crafters that I do daily writs for.

I don't need gold...

I don't need writs...

I don't need inspiration...


Things I do need are:

I need yellow mats like wax, alloy, rosin, etc

I need surveys


Is there really a reason to put any points into my crafting skills for my alts? Should I raise certain skills a few points? Do surveys or yellow mats drop more at higher crafting like if I put 10 points into blacksmithing compared to leaving at 1?

tmbrinks

Surveys, no: 1 in 8 regardless of level

Gold mats, yes: Significantly higher drop rate at max level (~3% at lowest level versus 30% at max level) - (for jewelry you can't even get gold at level 1 only green/blue)

Kwik1

Ok thanks. I will keep them maxed for the gold mats

Obsidian3

On my crafting alts I only have points in max level, hireling and the research ones while I
am researching. I made a new alt account, and I got all the crafting toons to six traits on all pieces and am getting really nice Master Writ Drops on those toons. Survey drop rate on them is complete *** though.

deleted221106-002999

Don't forget hirelings, too - if you're logging in to do crafting dailies those hireling mats are a bonus, especially when gold mats appear.

Bitter_Apple21

Interested on this subject.

4 toons, with one of them a master crafter. I definitely see the gold mats appear on his writs whereas I do not remember seeing them on any of the other three.

I held back advancing the other three cause I had the instinct that I would be burning thru the raw material to do the writs if I promoted the other 3 toons. My sense is that the qty I need vs the return on the writ will at one point draw them down.

I do get the surveys from the other three and hand them off to the master so that I get top level stuff from the surveys.

The question is, has anyone seen any sort of "line in the sand" so to speak about how many toons can be at top vs level 1 where things sort of break even. I think I saw one post about "self sustaining" or something along those lines.

Was thinking of testing by putting 1-2 skills per toon (on the other three) up to max and see what is happening to the raw material, but any advice or ideas will help.

deleted221106-002999

@Bitter_Apple21

If you need gold mats then do craft dailies at highest level, if you prefer/need gold do them at lowest level.

Lowest level craft dailies are pretty much self-sustaining. Highest level craft writs, without extra farming, will require you to buy mats periodically. Hirelings help mitigate this somewhat.

For recipes, have a range of characters with different provisioning skill levels.

There's no point in doing mid-level craft dailies for other crafts.

tmbrinks

Bitter_Apple21 wrote: »

Interested on this subject.

4 toons, with one of them a master crafter. I definitely see the gold mats appear on his writs whereas I do not remember seeing them on any of the other three.

I held back advancing the other three cause I had the instinct that I would be burning thru the raw material to do the writs if I promoted the other 3 toons. My sense is that the qty I need vs the return on the writ will at one point draw them down.

I do get the surveys from the other three and hand them off to the master so that I get top level stuff from the surveys.

The question is, has anyone seen any sort of "line in the sand" so to speak about how many toons can be at top vs level 1 where things sort of break even. I think I saw one post about "self sustaining" or something along those lines.

Was thinking of testing by putting 1-2 skills per toon (on the other three) up to max and see what is happening to the raw material, but any advice or ideas will help.

You will notice a slight "burning" of your materials doing writs at maximum level. For WW/BS/Clothing you get most of what you use back (about 85%) from the material return (you get 15 normally and 10 at a random lower level), or from the surveys (which you get 1/8th of the time). With the increased passive from plentiful harvest (up to 50% now, even though it's testing at 40%), you come close to break even. If you quest (and pick up resources or pick up heavy sacks while doing so) you'll almost be able to do those without ever purchasing.

Jewelry, you will notice a decrease over time. They return less resources when you do them (they do use less as well), but you'll only get back about 70% of what you need to be self sufficient.

That all being said. The increase in profit you make from doing max level writs versus doing them at a lower level to "break even", far and away pays for you to just buy the materials to continue to do max level writs, ESPECIALLY for jewelry. You literally have a 0% chance of getting chromium doing jewelry writs at minimum level, but a 25% chance of getting one at max level (with about a 15% chance of that being 2 grains, and a 1% chance of that being a full plating, for an effective drop rate of about 30%), and just getting ONE of those will pay for your materials for the next month, that you would have used "extra".

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1yQDUjYNQVsIFl0ktkbkSlfYPkzP6pgCOTMQ-qCuzfaI/edit#gid=478860738

Here is the breakdown (on two tabs) of the expected profit on max level versus minimum level. They aren't even in the same ballpark (and I need to update the values as the data is dated, but I'm not playing as much for other reason)

tl dr. Do your writs at maximum level. Hard stop.

Bitter_Apple21

@tmbrinks

Great and thank you very much.

I had not considered any CP element of this.

And yes, to your point, during events (not just heavy bags), I actually end up spending time going around to harvest stuff. I tend to try and remember "runs or routes" where there seems to be a high concentration of items to farm, and I tend to run those daily when an event is in some region.

Much appreciated and thanks.

alberichtano

Kwik1 wrote: »

I am wondering if there is any big reason to actually use skill points to raise my crafting skills for doing daily crafting quests. I have 12 toons all maxed crafters that I do daily writs for.

I don't need gold...

I don't need writs...

I don't need inspiration...


Things I do need are:

I need yellow mats like wax, alloy, rosin, etc

I need surveys


Is there really a reason to put any points into my crafting skills for my alts? Should I raise certain skills a few points? Do surveys or yellow mats drop more at higher crafting like if I put 10 points into blacksmithing compared to leaving at 1?

I haven't really researched this, but from what I have seen, the chances of getting gold mats and surveys goes up the higher your skill rank. Specifically I maxed the Jewelry-skill on all but one alt, and that alt never gets gold mats (and barely even green or blue as far as I can recall), whereas those that maxed the skill get gold mats, sometimes even a full gold plating an very rare occassions, and surveys a bit more often.

It should be noted that I have the crafting CP-stars maxed on all but one alt (which is not the same as the one that hasn't maxed jewelry).

So I would say that yes, maxing skills is good if you want better rewards.

Inspiration, however... not sure why it is even given after maxing the skill, as it does absolutely nothing.

alberichtano

tmbrinks wrote: »

Bitter_Apple21 wrote: »

Interested on this subject.

4 toons, with one of them a master crafter. I definitely see the gold mats appear on his writs whereas I do not remember seeing them on any of the other three.

I held back advancing the other three cause I had the instinct that I would be burning thru the raw material to do the writs if I promoted the other 3 toons. My sense is that the qty I need vs the return on the writ will at one point draw them down.

I do get the surveys from the other three and hand them off to the master so that I get top level stuff from the surveys.

The question is, has anyone seen any sort of "line in the sand" so to speak about how many toons can be at top vs level 1 where things sort of break even. I think I saw one post about "self sustaining" or something along those lines.

Was thinking of testing by putting 1-2 skills per toon (on the other three) up to max and see what is happening to the raw material, but any advice or ideas will help.

You will notice a slight "burning" of your materials doing writs at maximum level. For WW/BS/Clothing you get most of what you use back (about 85%) from the material return (you get 15 normally and 10 at a random lower level), or from the surveys (which you get 1/8th of the time). With the increased passive from plentiful harvest (up to 50% now, even though it's testing at 40%), you come close to break even. If you quest (and pick up resources or pick up heavy sacks while doing so) you'll almost be able to do those without ever purchasing.

Jewelry, you will notice a decrease over time. They return less resources when you do them (they do use less as well), but you'll only get back about 70% of what you need to be self sufficient.

That all being said. The increase in profit you make from doing max level writs versus doing them at a lower level to "break even", far and away pays for you to just buy the materials to continue to do max level writs, ESPECIALLY for jewelry. You literally have a 0% chance of getting chromium doing jewelry writs at minimum level, but a 25% chance of getting one at max level (with about a 15% chance of that being 2 grains, and a 1% chance of that being a full plating, for an effective drop rate of about 30%), and just getting ONE of those will pay for your materials for the next month, that you would have used "extra".

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1yQDUjYNQVsIFl0ktkbkSlfYPkzP6pgCOTMQ-qCuzfaI/edit#gid=478860738

Here is the breakdown (on two tabs) of the expected profit on max level versus minimum level. They aren't even in the same ballpark (and I need to update the values as the data is dated, but I'm not playing as much for other reason)

tl dr. Do your writs at maximum level. Hard stop.

Dang, I missed that you wrote what I just said but much better.

WabanakiWarrior

I remember meeting a guy who claimed your crafting achievements on your toon impact the drop rate of rewards. That was his reason for grinding out 10+ grand master crafters. Can anyone confirm this?

tmbrinks

WabanakiWarrior wrote: »

I remember meeting a guy who claimed your crafting achievements on your toon impact the drop rate of rewards. That was his reason for grinding out 10+ grand master crafters. Can anyone confirm this?

More motif knowledge does equal more master writs.

More research knowledge does equal more master writs.

Both of those achievements are required to get grand master crafter.

Achievements have no bearing on rewards such as surveys (1 in 8 regardless of level), gold improvement materials (depends only on the level of writ done), etc..

katanagirl1

I have had some trouble with adding toons and not doing trait research on them and having that drastically lower the number of master writs my main character received. Of course I don’t track tons of data (I’d rather be playing instead) but after adding 2 toons with only equipment crafting skills leveled up to 50 I was getting one master writ every 3 months or so. It was dreadful for someone trying to use vouchers to buy random furnishing plans.

After 6-8 months of this I broke down and did all the research on the alts and got them basic motifs and now I get typically 1-3 master writs per day. Go figure.

Bitter_Apple21

@katanagirl1 @tmbrinks

Question for you two on the writs. I have 4 toons, one is master on all the crafting ones.

I get the master writs, but although I have the traits, etc, it is the style motifs that I do not have. Am I doing something wrong or is it just that, yes, I to go out all over the place to try and farm the motif chapters (or buy them from guilds) and style materials.

I have such a large collection of woodworking and armor gear, it is taking up storage space. The only one that doesn't have the style is the jewelry, but the upgrade plating on those is hard to come by.

Advice?

Dagoth_Rac

Bitter_Apple21 wrote: »

@katanagirl1 @tmbrinks

Question for you two on the writs. I have 4 toons, one is master on all the crafting ones.

I get the master writs, but although I have the traits, etc, it is the style motifs that I do not have. Am I doing something wrong or is it just that, yes, I to go out all over the place to try and farm the motif chapters (or buy them from guilds) and style materials.

I have such a large collection of woodworking and armor gear, it is taking up storage space. The only one that doesn't have the style is the jewelry, but the upgrade plating on those is hard to come by.

Advice?

Yes, motif knowledge is a big factor in getting Clothing/Blacksmith/Woodwork master writs. There are diminishing returns, though. Learning 10 full motifs will increase your changes by more than the additional 10 motifs that take you to learning 20 full motifs, etc. So try to learn a decent collection of full motifs but you dont need to go overboard and learn all 563458362342 motifs in game. Every new complete motif helps, but it can be like a 0.01% chance once you know enough. The increased chance from learning a new motif is very tiny after you know a certain amount of motifs.

tmbrinks

Bitter_Apple21 wrote: »

@katanagirl1 @tmbrinks

Question for you two on the writs. I have 4 toons, one is master on all the crafting ones.

I get the master writs, but although I have the traits, etc, it is the style motifs that I do not have. Am I doing something wrong or is it just that, yes, I to go out all over the place to try and farm the motif chapters (or buy them from guilds) and style materials.

I have such a large collection of woodworking and armor gear, it is taking up storage space. The only one that doesn't have the style is the jewelry, but the upgrade plating on those is hard to come by.

Advice?

The master writs you get will be from a random motif in the game (there's usually a lag behind the newest of the motifs so you don't get those right away, but there have been instances previously of getting master writs for motifs that weren't even out yet)

Personally, if you're doing master writs for the vouchers, I'd just sell the ones you don't have the motifs for and buy equivalent ones that you do know them for (or just sell and take longer to get the vouchers)

Bitter_Apple21

@tmbrinks

Never thought of selling them.

I recently just joined a guild, so that is where I would sell them (if the guild is approved to sell things - do I have that correct?)

Thanks.

tmbrinks

Bitter_Apple21 wrote: »

@tmbrinks

Never thought of selling them.

I recently just joined a guild, so that is where I would sell them (if the guild is approved to sell things - do I have that correct?)

Thanks.

As long as the guild has at least 50? (I think, might be 100) members it unlocks the guild store. If your guild has bid on a kiosk then everybody can shop there. If not, only your own guild members can (by interacting with an in-game banker)

Depending on the guild, might take some time for them to sell, and there's a ton of variability in what they'll sell for based on materials, style stones, style, traits needed, etc...

Bitter_Apple21

@tmbrinks

Thanks.

katanagirl1

As for getting more motifs you can farm the ones that drop from reward coffers in zone dailies for free, and even some of the more recent ones can be bought for cheap because everyone has been farming the crap out of them for both motif pages and structural furnishing plans for months.

Just a reminder that for the motifs with pages (not the full purple books for Daedric, Ancient Elf, etc.) only count towards your knowledge and master writ drop chance if you know all of the pages.

Bitter_Apple21

@katanagirl1

Thanks.

I attempted to do that for a "Deadwaters' (I think) motif out of Murkmire. However, I think I ran it for 5 days straight and got one page.

That got me "throwing" my hands up in the air that this was going to take forever.

Let alone, I think it is Celestial, I have to run Caldwell Silver to get that book.

I guess I just did not realize, the level of additional effort that is specifically needed for the writs that I end up picking up.

If have have already got them, that was easy. It is the ones that I do not have, that triggered the question of if "am I doing something wrong".

Thanks again. Much appreciated.

katanagirl1

Yeah the drop rates are low so you just do as many of them every day on as many toons as you can stand it. This is one of those long haul things.

For master writs you can use that as an excuse to buy that particular page, especially if it’s a legendary or epic nirnhoned with more vouchers.

I believe the anniversary event is coming up, that is a great time to get motifs from reward boxes and the guild traders are flush with cheaper pages as well then.

Bitter_Apple21

@Katagiri

Thanks. I had not thought of a focus during events. I will definitely give that a try.

From someone with diminishing bank storage space, thanks.

Bitter_Apple21

Folks

A different version of this question. For the crafting writs, the take away for me is that all except Jewelry will come close to breaking even if all toons get "bumped up", and I increase the gold improvement mats being collected.

Fine.

However, on the Alchemy/Provisioning/Enchanting, are there any downsides to getting all up to max? My focus is on the purple ingredients like Bervez juice, etc. Would it be true that the more toons I have up at max the more of those ingredients will - overall - be collected when I hand in the writs?

I cannot see anything wrong on the alchemy or the provisioning, and perhaps I might burn thru the higher level enchant stones, but that is my question.

deleted221106-002999

Hirelings are a stable and reliable source of purple provisioning mats - as far as I know, they're the only provider other than the actual daily rewards for provisioning crafting.

Alchemy mats are trivial if you go to imperial city - 500 tel-var stones gets you a sachel containing roughly the equivalent of an alchemy survey map but it also can include fungi and powdered mother of peal(latter rarely).

At highest level, mudcrab chitin is the alchemy mat you'll need to farm since there's no source I know of outside of flensing mudcrabs (anniversary event maybe and some other events might rop them; not sure?). Would love to learn of other sources, though. Violet coprinus is another mat I usually need periodically to keep doing the craft dailies.

Oko rune is most used in all enchanting dailies; incidental farming and, again, hirelings, help.

Can't see in any disadvantage of doing those three (alchemy, provisoning and enchanting) at highest craft level except, maybe, provisioning - having a spread of craft levels for turning in provisioning dailies generates the mid-tier recipes (for master writ generation any purple recipes are desirable).

Other than the ingredients used in the craft dailies you will generate a surplus of mats from rewards.

@tmbrinks is likely to have definitive empirical data.

tmbrinks

It's pretty much as @Comrade_Ogilvy said.

You will burn through mats doing alchemy at max level (Violet Coprinus, Mudcrab Chitin, etc..) but the rewards of the surveys and other mats gotten are well worth it. Can just sell some of those every now and then to buy the others you need, and the survey flowers sell fast

Enchanting will use up Oko (since there's 2 used per 3 day cycle, as opposed to 1 of the others)

Provisioning, do at whatever level you want recipes at. Levels 1-3 are faction specific, levels 4-6 are not.

Bitter_Apple21

@tmbrinks @Comrade_Ogilvy

Thanks. I had seen early on the Violet being used on some top potions so I started collecting those a ways back. Mudcrab, did not know any other source other than the crabs but on the one toon I have at max, he - I do not think - has been use that very often. But yes, I tend to try and farm that as I am overlanding...

Good to know about OKO, I will check what I have built up on the one toon.

Both your points on provisioning caught my eye however.

@Comrade_Ogilvy

I do not understand the subject of mid tier. I initially thought that since all my toons being now above CP160, I would only want to consume high level food and drink buffs.

Is there a benefit to just collecting the mid tier recipes and learning them (but not using them) or am I missing something - typically?

@tmbrinks

Your comment about faction specific caught me eye. Does that mean that if I have more toons at max, I will be increasing the odds of getting "different" max recipes from different factions? Or, and I just thought of this, my one max toon is Aldmeri, but I have two others are Ebonheart, and when they are up to max, the recipes that will drop as rewards will be different ones from the Aldmeri recipes I receive? That would be a bonus.

tmbrinks

Bitter_Apple21 wrote: »

@tmbrinks @Comrade_Ogilvy

Thanks. I had seen early on the Violet being used on some top potions so I started collecting those a ways back. Mudcrab, did not know any other source other than the crabs but on the one toon I have at max, he - I do not think - has been use that very often. But yes, I tend to try and farm that as I am overlanding...

Good to know about OKO, I will check what I have built up on the one toon.

Both your points on provisioning caught my eye however.

@Comrade_Ogilvy

I do not understand the subject of mid tier. I initially thought that since all my toons being now above CP160, I would only want to consume high level food and drink buffs.

Is there a benefit to just collecting the mid tier recipes and learning them (but not using them) or am I missing something - typically?

@tmbrinks

Your comment about faction specific caught me eye. Does that mean that if I have more toons at max, I will be increasing the odds of getting "different" max recipes from different factions? Or, and I just thought of this, my one max toon is Aldmeri, but I have two others are Ebonheart, and when they are up to max, the recipes that will drop as rewards will be different ones from the Aldmeri recipes I receive? That would be a bonus.

No, at max level (and levels 4 and 5) the recipes gotten are the same regardless of faction.

They're only different for levels 1-3

As far as "mid-tier"... most players only do their provisioning writs at maximum level, so those recipes (other than the purple ones) are all but useless. But many players spend so little time in the CP10-150 phase, and don't do their provisioning writs at those levels, that the recipes that drop from level 2-5 provisioning writs are rare and worth a decent amount of coin to sell for both the blue quality and the purple quality.

In the grand scheme, it's "icing" on the cake for what you make from writs. If you don't want to worry about "min-maxing" your writs, just do them all at max level.

Bitter_Apple21

Gotcha now.

I had gotten a sense of this when I asked about crafting strategy, where I think you mentioned collecting gold on the stuff.

Thanks.

deleted221106-002999

tmbrinks wrote: »

No, at max level (and levels 4 and 5) the recipes gotten are the same regardless of faction.

They're only different for levels 1-3

As far as "mid-tier"... most players only do their provisioning writs at maximum level, so those recipes (other than the purple ones) are all but useless. But many players spend so little time in the CP10-150 phase, and don't do their provisioning writs at those levels, that the recipes that drop from level 2-5 provisioning writs are rare and worth a decent amount of coin to sell for both the blue quality and the purple quality.

In the grand scheme, it's "icing" on the cake for what you make from writs. If you don't want to worry about "min-maxing" your writs, just do them all at max level.

I think I have 1 max and had 1 at 4 and other at 2 and 3 for recipes, usually for redistribution/sale; I hadn't noticed the top two tiers produced the same ones. Thanks for the really helpful clarification.