New Patch will make Innate Axiom literally give nothing.

MindOfTheSwarm

Now that all skills scale with Max Stats. What will Innate Axiom actually offer? I mean it wasn’t a popular set to begin with but with the new patch it’s going to be worth even less. Needs a rework to help it fit into the new system in my opinion.
Perhaps buff it to 600. Still would remain niche in my opinion but help it compete with the new patch.

the1andonlyskwex

I'm confused about how hybrid scaling devalues a buff to all class abilities. It's nothing like Pelinal's Aptitude (which was already changed), and it still offers more SD/WD than something like Julianos.

McTaterskins

If it goes to 600, it's getting dusted off and getting double barred on my templar or mag dk

Finedaible

I kind of forgot about this set. It is kind of limited, but it may finally be an interesting choice for once.

MindOfTheSwarm

Don’t forget that War Maiden still offers 600. I mean if your playing a Magplar War Maiden is practically a better version of Innate Axiom anyway.

MashmalloMan

Why would a set that only buffs class skills need a buff when this patch will offer the most versatility we've ever seen in terms of using any class skill you want? If anything, the set is more viable than before, some classes can go entirely class skills with the exception of a back bar weapon dot for enchants. It's much harder to go all 1 damage type or all 1 weapon line for example.

Sets that have static bonuses are easily weighed against each other. When you compare it to 300 from something like Hundings vs 400 from something like Automaton, 400 is a fair place to have it at. It's stronger than Hundings by 33%, but also not crazy strong because frankly it shouldn't be... static set bonuses are always weighted lower than proc condition counterparts. When you get into 450+ territory, you're usually dealing with proc set conditions or kiss/curse situations.

I'd say it's a bit unjust to use an example of War Maiden, a set that has no right having as much damage as it does as the basis for buffing Innate. Imo, all the damage type and weapon damage effecting sets need to be standardized. Some sets effect 2 damage types, some are 600, some are 400. It's all over the place, the only logic behind it is based on those damage types being less effective "back in the day" but that is no longer the case as every damage type now has a status effect and much more abilities have become available to utilize those bonuses where as before, morph choice was pretty cut and dry. As much crap as we like to give ZOS for unpopular morph choices, it was MUCH worse 3-4 years ago. Compounded with issues of CP 1.0 locking you into Magical or Martial damage types.

1. War Maiden (magic) = 600
2. Swamp Raider (poison + disease) = 600
3. Automaton (physical + bleed) = 400
4. Silks of the Sun (flame) = 400
5. Ysgramor's Birthright (frost) = 400
6. Netch's Touch (shock) = 400

Also, f we're saying War Maiden should be 600 because Magic damage as a damage type is not as powerful, than why is the Frost and Shock sets at 400 when they're objectively the least common and weakest damage types compared to Flame that also has 400. To top it off, Magplars have the closest thing to a 100% damage type focus which means they can utilize the set effectively, while a Warden can't use Ysgramor and a Sorc can't use Netch's Touch due to a lack of damage type focus in their kits.

It's just overall a mess, there is no logic behind War Maiden. If you're a magplar not as concerned with healing bonuses, I'd enjoy War Maiden while it lasts because it's enevitably going to be knocked down a peg.

If I could rebalance them, I'd do 400 for a damage type set, 500 for a weapon skill line set since you can't even fit both bars with weapon skills and leave Innate at 400 since you can fill both bars with class skills.

the1andonlyskwex

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Why would a set that only buffs class skills need a buff when this patch will offer the most versatility we've ever seen in terms of using any class skill you want? If anything, the set is more viable than before, some classes can go entirely class skills with the exception of a back bar weapon dot for enchants. It's much harder to go all 1 damage type or all 1 weapon line for example.

Sets that have static bonuses are easily weighed against each other. When you compare it to 300 from something like Hundings vs 400 from something like Automaton, 400 is a fair place to have it at. It's stronger than Hundings by 33%, but also not crazy strong because frankly it shouldn't be... static set bonuses are always weighted lower than proc condition counterparts. When you get into 450+ territory, you're usually dealing with proc set conditions or kiss/curse situations.

I'd say it's a bit unjust to use an example of War Maiden, a set that has no right having as much damage as it does as the basis for buffing Innate. Imo, all the damage type and weapon damage effecting sets need to be standardized. Some sets effect 2 damage types, some are 600, some are 400. It's all over the place, the only logic behind it is based on those damage types being less effective "back in the day" but that is no longer the case as every damage type now has a status effect and much more abilities have become available to utilize those bonuses where as before, morph choice was pretty cut and dry. As much crap as we like to give ZOS for unpopular morph choices, it was MUCH worse 3-4 years ago. Compounded with issues of CP 1.0 locking you into Magical or Martial damage types.

1. War Maiden (magic) = 600
2. Swamp Raider (poison + disease) = 600
3. Automaton (physical + bleed) = 400
4. Silks of the Sun (flame) = 400
5. Ysgramor's Birthright (frost) = 400
6. Netch's Touch (shock) = 400

Also, f we're saying War Maiden should be 600 because Magic damage as a damage type is not as powerful, than why is the Frost and Shock sets at 400 when they're objectively the least common and weakest damage types compared to Flame that also has 400. To top it off, Magplars have the closest thing to a 100% damage type focus which means they can utilize the set effectively, while a Warden can't use Ysgramor and a Sorc can't use Netch's Touch due to a lack of damage type focus in their kits.

It's just overall a mess, there is no logic behind War Maiden. If you're a magplar not as concerned with healing bonuses, I'd enjoy War Maiden while it lasts because it's enevitably going to be knocked down a peg.

If I could rebalance them, I'd do 400 for a damage type set, 500 for a weapon skill line set since you can't even fit both bars with weapon skills and leave Innate at 400 since you can fill both bars with class skills.

My understanding is that War Maiden and Swamp Raider are 600 because there aren't any DPS weapons whose light attacks do magic, poison, or disease damage.

I assume Innate Axiom is only 400 because it can buff heals, unlike the sets that buff by damage type.

MashmalloMan

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Why would a set that only buffs class skills need a buff when this patch will offer the most versatility we've ever seen in terms of using any class skill you want? If anything, the set is more viable than before, some classes can go entirely class skills with the exception of a back bar weapon dot for enchants. It's much harder to go all 1 damage type or all 1 weapon line for example.

Sets that have static bonuses are easily weighed against each other. When you compare it to 300 from something like Hundings vs 400 from something like Automaton, 400 is a fair place to have it at. It's stronger than Hundings by 33%, but also not crazy strong because frankly it shouldn't be... static set bonuses are always weighted lower than proc condition counterparts. When you get into 450+ territory, you're usually dealing with proc set conditions or kiss/curse situations.

I'd say it's a bit unjust to use an example of War Maiden, a set that has no right having as much damage as it does as the basis for buffing Innate. Imo, all the damage type and weapon damage effecting sets need to be standardized. Some sets effect 2 damage types, some are 600, some are 400. It's all over the place, the only logic behind it is based on those damage types being less effective "back in the day" but that is no longer the case as every damage type now has a status effect and much more abilities have become available to utilize those bonuses where as before, morph choice was pretty cut and dry. As much crap as we like to give ZOS for unpopular morph choices, it was MUCH worse 3-4 years ago. Compounded with issues of CP 1.0 locking you into Magical or Martial damage types.

1. War Maiden (magic) = 600
2. Swamp Raider (poison + disease) = 600
3. Automaton (physical + bleed) = 400
4. Silks of the Sun (flame) = 400
5. Ysgramor's Birthright (frost) = 400
6. Netch's Touch (shock) = 400

Also, f we're saying War Maiden should be 600 because Magic damage as a damage type is not as powerful, than why is the Frost and Shock sets at 400 when they're objectively the least common and weakest damage types compared to Flame that also has 400. To top it off, Magplars have the closest thing to a 100% damage type focus which means they can utilize the set effectively, while a Warden can't use Ysgramor and a Sorc can't use Netch's Touch due to a lack of damage type focus in their kits.

It's just overall a mess, there is no logic behind War Maiden. If you're a magplar not as concerned with healing bonuses, I'd enjoy War Maiden while it lasts because it's enevitably going to be knocked down a peg.

If I could rebalance them, I'd do 400 for a damage type set, 500 for a weapon skill line set since you can't even fit both bars with weapon skills and leave Innate at 400 since you can fill both bars with class skills.

My understanding is that War Maiden and Swamp Raider are 600 because there aren't any DPS weapons whose light attacks do magic, poison, or disease damage.

I assume Innate Axiom is only 400 because it can buff heals, unlike the sets that buff by damage type.

War Maiden will buff Resto Staff attacks. It's still a possible valid arguement as to why they chose to do it that way and I applaud you for that catch as I didn't even think of that, but light/heavy attacks only account for around 10-13% of your DPS, 15-20% if you're using a VMA Destro. Offering a 50% boost to skills because of 10-20% of your light/heavy damage not being effected seems a bit heavy handed.

So if that is their reasoning, it's completely mute imo. For starters, out of all the damage types, Templar has the easiest time leaning 100% into that type with DK's as a close second for Fire damage. Swamp Raider effects Poison and Disease damage which should account for the lack of light/heavy's if that was the case.

If that was the reason, a comparitive bonus of +30-50 would be more in line than 200. With something like this and these being older sets, it's more likely a lack of judgement on ZOS's part lol.

the1andonlyskwex

MashmalloMan wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Why would a set that only buffs class skills need a buff when this patch will offer the most versatility we've ever seen in terms of using any class skill you want? If anything, the set is more viable than before, some classes can go entirely class skills with the exception of a back bar weapon dot for enchants. It's much harder to go all 1 damage type or all 1 weapon line for example.

Sets that have static bonuses are easily weighed against each other. When you compare it to 300 from something like Hundings vs 400 from something like Automaton, 400 is a fair place to have it at. It's stronger than Hundings by 33%, but also not crazy strong because frankly it shouldn't be... static set bonuses are always weighted lower than proc condition counterparts. When you get into 450+ territory, you're usually dealing with proc set conditions or kiss/curse situations.

I'd say it's a bit unjust to use an example of War Maiden, a set that has no right having as much damage as it does as the basis for buffing Innate. Imo, all the damage type and weapon damage effecting sets need to be standardized. Some sets effect 2 damage types, some are 600, some are 400. It's all over the place, the only logic behind it is based on those damage types being less effective "back in the day" but that is no longer the case as every damage type now has a status effect and much more abilities have become available to utilize those bonuses where as before, morph choice was pretty cut and dry. As much crap as we like to give ZOS for unpopular morph choices, it was MUCH worse 3-4 years ago. Compounded with issues of CP 1.0 locking you into Magical or Martial damage types.

1. War Maiden (magic) = 600
2. Swamp Raider (poison + disease) = 600
3. Automaton (physical + bleed) = 400
4. Silks of the Sun (flame) = 400
5. Ysgramor's Birthright (frost) = 400
6. Netch's Touch (shock) = 400

Also, f we're saying War Maiden should be 600 because Magic damage as a damage type is not as powerful, than why is the Frost and Shock sets at 400 when they're objectively the least common and weakest damage types compared to Flame that also has 400. To top it off, Magplars have the closest thing to a 100% damage type focus which means they can utilize the set effectively, while a Warden can't use Ysgramor and a Sorc can't use Netch's Touch due to a lack of damage type focus in their kits.

It's just overall a mess, there is no logic behind War Maiden. If you're a magplar not as concerned with healing bonuses, I'd enjoy War Maiden while it lasts because it's enevitably going to be knocked down a peg.

If I could rebalance them, I'd do 400 for a damage type set, 500 for a weapon skill line set since you can't even fit both bars with weapon skills and leave Innate at 400 since you can fill both bars with class skills.

My understanding is that War Maiden and Swamp Raider are 600 because there aren't any DPS weapons whose light attacks do magic, poison, or disease damage.

I assume Innate Axiom is only 400 because it can buff heals, unlike the sets that buff by damage type.

War Maiden will buff Resto Staff attacks. It's still a possible valid arguement as to why they chose to do it that way and I applaud you for that catch as I didn't even think of that, but light/heavy attacks only account for around 10-13% of your DPS, 15-20% if you're using a VMA Destro. Offering a 50% boost to skills because of 10-20% of your light/heavy damage not being effected seems a bit heavy handed.

So if that is their reasoning, it's completely mute imo. For starters, out of all the damage types, Templar has the easiest time leaning 100% into that type with DK's as a close second for Fire damage. Swamp Raider effects Poison and Disease damage which should account for the lack of light/heavy's if that was the case.

If that was the reason, a comparitive bonus of +30-50 would be more in line than 200. With something like this and these being older sets, it's more likely a lack of judgement on ZOS's part lol.

1) I didn't originate the light attack reasoning, it comes up on these forums pretty regularly and I assume it was mentioned in a patch note or dev stream at some point.
2) Resto staff is irrelevant because an extra 200 SD/WD won't come anywhere close to making up for the DPS loss compared to using a different weapon type (particularly because resto staff doesn't have any skills that are buffed by War Maiden).
3) magDK and magNB are both better able to lean into a single damage type than magPlar. DK because they can augment their class skills with inferno staff skills (while still only having 1.5 class skills that don't do flame damage), and NB because literally all of their skills do magic damage.
4) I'm not really sure how ZOS decided on 600 SD/WD instead of something like 450 or 500. It's clear that they seem to have favored standardization of the individual set effects over actual real-world balance though. Because of the specific skills that are affected, Swamp Raider is clearly much worse than War Maiden, and Netch's Touch is clearly worse than Silks of the Sun, despite providing the same amounts of SD/WD.
5) None of these sets are really outliers in terms of power. The strongest (War Maiden) isn't in any meta builds, and the weakest (probably Netch's Touch) still isn't among the worst sets in the game.
6) This thread is about Innate Axiom, which is totally different because it affects both damage and healing and all classes can build for it if they want to.

WrathOfInnos

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

1) I didn't originate the light attack reasoning, it comes up on these forums pretty regularly and I assume it was mentioned in a patch note or dev stream at some point.

This was never mentioned by devs, it is a player theory and I believe it is incorrect. As mentioned, resto light attacks are buffed by War Maiden, which gives 600 Spell Damage. We cannot simply dismiss this due to low damage output of that one weapon, especially when Frost Staff exists as a tanking weapon with no offensive bonus on Ancient Knowledge.

Maybe a better example is to look at the sets that are the opposite to Innate Axiom. Spider Cultist gives 600 and affects Light Attacks. Sword Singer gives 600 and affects Light Attacks. Sword Dancer gives 600 and affects Light Attacks. All 3 of these sets work with more abilities than Ysgramor or Netch, it makes zero sense that they are stuck at 400.

Axiom could easily give 600 as well, every decent build uses at least 1-2 weapon skills, and often other non-class skills (like barbed trap). Combine that with the lack of light attacks and 600 seems very reasonable.

Silks of the Sun and Automaton would be the only concern if all these sets were increased to 600 to be consistent, since both of these can be used effectively with meta weapons and various class skills. Still, I don't believe either would be overpowered given the great sets we have available these days. Even for builds that are 100% dedicated to one damage type that 600 Weapon/Spell Damage works out to about 8% DPS on the 5pc. This is similar to what Tzogvin, Advancing Yokeda or Kinra gives, but all of those work better as a front bar set, carrying over to back bar for up to 5s, and they apply to more damage types (as well as things like enchant procs which do not scale with Silks or Automaton). I think it would just end up giving a decent beginner gear set option to magDK's and stam sorcs before they could obtain better gear, or if they struggled with the stacking mechanics on other sets, similar to something like Deadly for templars.

the1andonlyskwex

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Maybe a better example is to look at the sets that are the opposite to Innate Axiom. Spider Cultist gives 600 and affects Light Attacks. Sword Singer gives 600 and affects Light Attacks. Sword Dancer gives 600 and affects Light Attacks. All 3 of these sets work with more abilities than Ysgramor or Netch, it makes zero sense that they are stuck at 400.

This is nonsense. Innate Axiom affect 3 skill lines (on any given character), while your examples of sets that provide 600 SD/WD only affect one; and Netch obviously affects more skills than Spider Cultist because it affects all of the same destruction staff skills (assuming you have a lightning staff equipped), plus several class skills.

WrathOfInnos

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Maybe a better example is to look at the sets that are the opposite to Innate Axiom. Spider Cultist gives 600 and affects Light Attacks. Sword Singer gives 600 and affects Light Attacks. Sword Dancer gives 600 and affects Light Attacks. All 3 of these sets work with more abilities than Ysgramor or Netch, it makes zero sense that they are stuck at 400.

This is nonsense. Innate Axiom affect 3 skill lines (on any given character), while your examples of sets that provide 600 SD/WD only affect one; and Netch obviously affects more skills than Spider Cultist because it affects all of the same destruction staff skills (assuming you have a lightning staff equipped), plus several class skills.

The example was to disprove the belief that sets that affect both light attacks and certain categories of skills cannot have 600 Spell Damage, they certainly can and do.

I disagree with your evaluation of Netch vs Spider Cultist. SC buffs Force Pulse, while NT only affects 1/3 of its hits. Even if someone was wearing NT (including a hypothetical buffed version) they would be better off using an Inferno Staff back bar with Lightning Staff only on front bar. This is because Wall of Fire is ~35% better than Wall of Storms, and the set would not nearly make up this difference. When using Elemental Rage, it would also be placed on back bar so that an ultimate with better passives can be used on the front bar. This results in a scenario where SC buffs 3 skills, while NT buffs 1/3 of one.
Nobody is using Flame Reach or Shock Reach on a damage build, so their scaling is irrelevant, and Ele Drain obviously is unaffected. That leaves only Ele Ring/Pulsar as debatable, as it would be buffed by the same amount by either set, in the scenario that Netch was buffed to 600.

There aren't many class skills that would benefit from Netch's Touch, but the ones that are could probably use the buff. Skeletal Arcanist is one of the weakest "DoTs" in the game, and Mystic Siphon is effectively a dead morph with every Magicka Necromancer preferring Detonating Siphon for more damage (except those using Elemental Catalyst). For Sorcerers, the Storm Atronach is a good skill, but has lost a lot of potential after the nerf to Major Berskerk (25% to 10%), followed by everyone getting that buff through Kinra's, letting it see more damage from a set seems fair. Lightning Flood remains one of the weakest AoE skills, and is still objectively worse than just using Mystic Orb, if NT could reverse this that would be great. Endless Fury/Mage's Wrath are a similar story, their mediocre damage rarely justifies a bar slot, something I cannot imagine saying for Impale or Radiant Oppression, so if a set can reverse this problem then I welcome it.

Not really sure what you're arguing for tbh, do you think Innate Axiom and Netch's Touch are balanced at 400? It's easy to prove that they are weaker than alternatives.

the1andonlyskwex

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Not really sure what you're arguing for tbh, do you think Innate Axiom and Netch's Touch are balanced at 400? It's easy to prove that they are weaker than alternatives.

Here's my argument, broken down into simple points.
1) ZOS is never going to make these sets meta, so first you need to lower your expectations.
2) A buff to Innate Axiom to anywhere close to 600 SD/WD would immediately (and obviously) make it better than War Maiden (mostly because it will buff both damage and healing).
3) A buff to Netch's Touch to anywhere close to 600 SD/WD would immediately (and obviously) make it better than Spider Cultist if not for the fact that inferno staffs are overpowered compared to lightning staffs.
4) The above 2 points generalize to pretty much all of the pairwise comparisons between these sets.
5) The argument for buffing these sets gets even weaker when you start comparing them to things like Scathing Mage (with it's poor uptime) or New Moon Acolyte (with its casting cost penalty).
6) ZOS can't just buff all of these sets because Silks of the Sun would become overpowered for magDKs if it were buffed by any significant amount.
7) ZOS has committed to standardizing their sets, and so they're not going to adjust the SD/WD of all of these sets individually based on the specific skills (and procs) that they affect.
8) Even if ZOS did decide to drop their whole standardization concept, it probably wouldn't be good for overall balance because there are just too many sets that would need adjusting and could have unanticipated interactions.


Ultimately, it's just not worth arguing for buffs to any of these sets. Just equip something else and move on.

WrathOfInnos

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Not really sure what you're arguing for tbh, do you think Innate Axiom and Netch's Touch are balanced at 400? It's easy to prove that they are weaker than alternatives.

Here's my argument, broken down into simple points.
1) ZOS is never going to make these sets meta, so first you need to lower your expectations.
2) A buff to Innate Axiom to anywhere close to 600 SD/WD would immediately (and obviously) make it better than War Maiden (mostly because it will buff both damage and healing).
3) A buff to Netch's Touch to anywhere close to 600 SD/WD would immediately (and obviously) make it better than Spider Cultist if not for the fact that inferno staffs are overpowered compared to lightning staffs.
4) The above 2 points generalize to pretty much all of the pairwise comparisons between these sets.
5) The argument for buffing these sets gets even weaker when you start comparing them to things like Scathing Mage (with it's poor uptime) or New Moon Acolyte (with its casting cost penalty).
6) ZOS can't just buff all of these sets because Silks of the Sun would become overpowered for magDKs if it were buffed by any significant amount.
7) ZOS has committed to standardizing their sets, and so they're not going to adjust the SD/WD of all of these sets individually based on the specific skills (and procs) that they affect.
8) Even if ZOS did decide to drop their whole standardization concept, it probably wouldn't be good for overall balance because there are just too many sets that would need adjusting and could have unanticipated interactions.


Ultimately, it's just not worth arguing for buffs to any of these sets. Just equip something else and move on.

1) A buff to these sets wouldn't make them meta, it would make them usable
2) Depends on the context, the healing won't matter for group PVE, and War Maiden still has the advantage of buffing Mystic Orb and Degeneration
3) Probably, but Inferno is overpowered compared to lightning so that scenario does not exist. I wouldn't say Spider Cultist is the goal for balancing sets anyway, it is pretty useless and almost always worse than something generic like Julianos
5) Scathing and New Moon were butchered, hardly an interesting comparison
6) Silks could be balanced separately if needed, for example it used to have a health bonus instead of damage and that could be returned if the 5pc was buffed and determined to be too strong. Tbh I doubt this would happen because Silks would not be meta even at 600. Look at dummy parses for example, the best setup is Bahsei + Advancing or Bahsei + Kinra. This is a scenario where Siroria's 520 Spell Damage to all skills + perfected magicka bonus would be easily maintainable, work flawlessly on front bar only (unlike silks) and it's still not even worth slotting.
7) The standardizing missed a few, that's the point that should be corrected
8) It seems the standardization effort has been abandoned anyway, which is a shame since it did briefly allow some things to be balanced. What was the last set release that fit the formula? It seems like most new sets are trash, and only a few stand out far ahead of anything else.

We all do use other sets, but everyone wearing the same 3 things is dull. Doesn't mean we should give up on pointing out which things were missed in balancing.

Tannus15

balance by spreadsheet feels like the logical, rational way to balance sets in ESO, but even a cursory glance at how the rest of the game is balanced will show that it doesn't work.

flame damage is not equivalent to shock or ice damage, and pretending that they are so the sets can all use the same number values is lazy at best, and dishonest at worst.

look at frostbite vs ysgramor:

frostbite : Increases your damage done with Frost abilities by 8%. Increases your damage done against Chilled enemies by 4%. Increases your damage done against enemies afflicted with Minor Brittle by 2%

ysgramor : Adds 400 Weapon and Spell Damage to your Frost Damage abilities.

frostbite can increase your frost damage by up to 14%, more than the new bahsei. That is a lot more than 400 spell/weapon damage and it's still only really good on a mag warden.

that's how far behind frost is vs flame.

you could have a shock version that did something like 20% increase to shock damage and mag sorcs would still probably be better off with bahsei and double inferno.

MindOfTheSwarm

The discrepancy between the elemental damage types is down to how many spells of a given type there are in the game. Simply put, DK can go full Flame whereas Sorc cannot do the same for Shock likewise a Warden cannot do the same for Frost. This is why Ysgramor and Netch are weaker than Silks.
War Maiden however is very strong, as others have said Magblade can go full Mag and get good mileage out of it.
However, I don’t think it needs nerfing. It makes Resto actually competitive to Destro staff in terms of its weaving abilities.

ACamaroGuy

I use Innate Axiom with War Maiden on my MagPlar for the PvP event thing. Now I do run Battlegrounds (can't get into Cyrodiil) to gather AP.

Everest_Lionheart

For what it’s worth regarding War Maiden from a PvE perspective, no doubt Magplar gets the most mileage out of this set but it’s outside the top 5 in terms of overall damage coming in behind Kinras, Deadly, AY, Tzogvin and PON. It performs about on par with Siroria without the need to worry about mobility.

Most of us are using Deadly + Bahsei and Kilt because sets like Kinras are better suited to your ranged players because inferno staves are more reliable in terms of targeting for light attacks, weird how that works I know.

I have tried WM on magblade and it really shines in execute but is outperformed by Kinras, Tzogvin and PON quite easily and is about on par with Medusa.

I would say things overall are balanced quite well with overland sets slightly outperforming crafted sets and dungeon sets slightly outperforming overland.

The more important thing to keep in mind though is skill level of that layer using these sets. Kinras is way more difficult to use effectively than those other sets yet only pulls out slightly ahead in the endgame level of player. Smart money says if you aren’t regularly raising or perfecting your rotation that you should settle for sets like deadly, Tzogvin, Medusa and PON where your uptimes will be significantly better and your DPS higher as a result.

Same ring true for body sets. Not everyone can live on the edge of zero magicka in a raid to make Bahsei outperform sets like the tried and trusted mothers sorrow or false gods but those sets still have their place as well. Not everyone is built to run one let alone two sets with proc conditions. I think it’s best to simplify if you can and have a lower but more consistent ceiling.

That’s what War Maiden is on Magplar. A lower but reliable DPS set that opens up harder content to less experienced players.

kojou

I think they should add a CP constellation that lets us universally change our damage type, so if I want to do all frost damage on my Nightblade I can.

Then some of these sets would actually make sense. As it is they all are sub-par to better options.