Why do we have to spoil other players' game?

katanagirl1

Theros wrote: »

If i go and let be kill. Respawn time in 3s
If i go, fight to kill someone and when i die, i need to wait 20s to respawn. Looking for PC for 20s. it's just annoying!
The faster PvP end... the better

I don’t think you understand that you only get AP from killing another player. Not fighting means no AP.

FlopsyPrince

blxdes wrote: »

Forcing people to do content they don't want? Let's look at it from a PVP perspective:

1. Psijic Skill Line: PVE
2. Mages Skill Line: PVE
3. Undaunted skill Line: PVE
4. Overland Gear: PVE
5. Dungeon Sets: PVE
6. Trial Sets: PVE
7. Mythic Items: PVE

Now, be thankful that people have given you some options to get your caltrops or war horn.

Which of those hide tickets behind them?

I have only done the first 2 to completion, perhaps the 3rd without realizing it. I miss out on many things.

This event is lousy because it forces targets for gankers.

LashanW

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

This event is lousy because it forces targets for gankers.

Or people who know how to prepare early.

I did 14 Imperial city dailies and 14 Cyrodiil scout/town quests across 3-5 characters a couple of days before the event started. All my tickets are now secured without having to do any PvP (you barely meet other people in low pop PvP zones outside of the event). Not that I dislike PvP, I just didn't want to deal with lag.

Beardimus

Theros wrote: »

hafgood wrote: »

"...
And I do think asking why you hate it is reasonable. Players are more understanding when someone gives reasons rather than a blanket I hate it statement.

Simple!
I play Elder Scrolls since Arena. Elder Scrolls is my favorite game! I just love it!!! And Elder Scrolls+PvP don't make any sence. (Not for me) If i wanna play PvP games, in my opinion anyother PvP game is better for that then Elder Scrolls.
But if i wanna play role-playing game, there's not better then Elder Scrolls! There's NOT!
In ESO (PvE) you have Story, Nice quests, nice sounds, Crazy crafics its a [snip] crazy world! It's amazing.
In ESO (PvP) i dont even care what you have. Because it's PvP... make no sence for me. Elder Scrolls + PvP dont make any sence.

[Edited for Censor Bypass]

You are in a cage of your own making.

Think how dull it is for PvPers needing to Scry etc...

Just find a way to make it less painful for yourself. You want to roleplay, just go repair walls in Cyrodiil or slot a Restro and spam heals

Or just do the PVE QUESTS.

Going into battleground and dying is the least efficient way.

Why not ask the best non PVP ways to achieve what you want. There's already a wealth of ideas on this thread

thorwyn

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

blxdes wrote: »

Forcing people to do content they don't want? Let's look at it from a PVP perspective:

1. Psijic Skill Line: PVE
2. Mages Skill Line: PVE
3. Undaunted skill Line: PVE
4. Overland Gear: PVE
5. Dungeon Sets: PVE
6. Trial Sets: PVE
7. Mythic Items: PVE

Now, be thankful that people have given you some options to get your caltrops or war horn.

Which of those hide tickets behind them?

I have only done the first 2 to completion, perhaps the 3rd without realizing it. I miss out on many things.

This event is lousy because it forces targets for gankers.

We are not talking about tickets and we are not talking about an event, we are talking about SKILL LINES. And yes, PvP folks have to do all the PvE stuff if they want to get all the skill lines and equipment. Just like OP has to play some PvP to get the skill line he wants. [snip] Deliberately sabotaging your team and the players who queued up for a BG giving their best and trying to put up a fight is a form of grief play and should be treated accordingly.

[edited for baiting]

Hvíthákarl

They should just add a PvP way to do the other events for those not interested in PvE and a couple non-PvP IC and cyro servers for people who don't like PvP. Everybody wins*. Forcing ppl to engage with content they absolutely despise is toxic both for those players and those who enjoy it. Some people don't have a lot of time for playing and the last thing they want is to spend their leisure time in a game mode they dislike.

[snip]
[edited for baiting]

VaranisArano

BlackArgonian wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

BlackArgonian wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Theros wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Theros wrote: »

If i go and let be kill. Respawn time in 3s
If i go, fight to kill someone and when i die, i need to wait 20s to respawn. Looking for PC for 20s. it's just annoying!
The faster PvP end... the better

You did at least pick up the Scroll of Pelinal's Ferocity from Cyrodiil so you get double AP from these matches you're deliberately losing, right?

yes ofc! but.... i just hate PvP!
Waiting 20s when i die and other times 3s for no reason at all....
Go to Cyrodill and travel all map for 30 minutes to farm some skyshards, and start all over again cuz other aliance kill me...
Nothing in PvP make any sense in this game. Nothing!
I get all almost all Shards in Cyrodill https://prnt.sc/ytXRRUeCj_1Z but the last 4 real dont understand how in the hell i will get them (im Daggerfall)
Alliance war is at Lv.8... i try to max this skill line with event and i hope never return here again.
Like i say b4, PvP in ESO don't make any sence. I just hate it!

Do you have specific questions we can help explain? ESO doesn't explain how PVP works particularly well, but it does generally follow on logical principles.

To be fair, ESO doesn't explain much of anything well, that has been relegated to add-ons for the majority of difficult content people actually care about like Veteran Trials.

And honestly if people want to feed or afk in battlegrounds it's not a problem, I always tell raging battlegrounds flamers go find some friends to queue with instead of abusing strangers.

One of the major problems with PvP is how I basically have to make a character dedicated to PvP, I need CP, gear sets, Impenetrable traits, potions and poisons etc.

PvE gear was made completely useless by these factors so don't blame PvE players if they don't want to basically remake their characters for 1 event that is generally disliked by the community.

It's bad sportsmanship to deliberately throw a BG match instead of attempting to play as intended.

I suggest you take your own advice. Should you desire to feed the enemy, at least have the decency to queue up with your group of 3 friends so you all agree to throw or sit out the match together rather than ruin the match for random teammates who have a reasonable expectation that everyone who willingly queues up for a Battlegrounds match is going to try.

Don't abuse the goodwill of strangers yourself, just because you don't want to prepare to play a game mode you queued up for.

Yeah but with the current state of PvP if you go in with PvE gear you get melted in two seconds, so is going in PvE gear considered feeding to you? You cannot force random players to do what you want, look at the fake tank dilemma.

Intentional feeding and getting obliterated is basically the same thing.

You want to fight? Go queue for a fight. Want to win? Get a competent team, no different than Veteran Trials. Want a fair fight? Go duel in the desert.

The distinction I'm drawing is one of sportsmanship.

I'd far rather have a random teammate who tries and fails, than a random teammate who's deliberately refusing to try and worse, deliberately throwing the match.

I've been that new PVPer. I've been that player trying and failing because I was new to BGs and had the wrong gear and wrong tactics. Heck, I'm still not very good at Battlegrounds, and Deathmatch is my worst mode.

What I've never done is deliberately feed myself to the enemy team to scupper my teammates' chances or sit in the respawn point instead of playing a game mode I willingly queued up for. There's an obvious difference there.


You're right. I can't force you to do anything - see fake tanks.

I can let you know that in my opinion, I'd rather see you and any other PVEer in Battlegrounds try and fail. Throwing the match is bad sportsmanship and disrespectful to your random teammates.

If you are going to do it anyway, take your own advice and bring a group of friends so at least you don't disrespect your random teammates.

BronzeCaiman

thorwyn wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

blxdes wrote: »

Forcing people to do content they don't want? Let's look at it from a PVP perspective:

1. Psijic Skill Line: PVE
2. Mages Skill Line: PVE
3. Undaunted skill Line: PVE
4. Overland Gear: PVE
5. Dungeon Sets: PVE
6. Trial Sets: PVE
7. Mythic Items: PVE

Now, be thankful that people have given you some options to get your caltrops or war horn.

Which of those hide tickets behind them?

I have only done the first 2 to completion, perhaps the 3rd without realizing it. I miss out on many things.

This event is lousy because it forces targets for gankers.

We are not talking about tickets and we are not talking about an event, we are talking about SKILL LINES. And yes, PvP folks have to do all the PvE stuff if they want to get all the skill lines and equipment. Just like OP has to play some PvP to get the skill line he wants. [snip] Deliberately sabotaging your team and the players who queued up for a BG giving their best and trying to put up a fight is a form of grief play and should be treated accordingly.

You can play PvP without any DLC, 2 of the 3 DLCs ever made permanently free are Battlegrounds and Imperial City. You might be at a disadvantage because you can´t hide in a corner and meditate without Psijic Order, and Scrying and Excavations had to have gear thrown into them otherwise they wouldn´t be profitable. Look at how people cry over not getting a system that involves combat in any way. PvP players will have to participate in 90% of the game to get more things yes (5% of it is pvp, the other 5% is trials) that is only logical for the company to make money. Also that content and can be done with only light attacks as it is inclusive and simple. You are not being asked to go complete a Veteran Trial to go dig up a mythic.

I would bet my Xanmeer that the reason we don´t get any new skill lines is because the nightmare it would be to balance in PvP. When I am in BGs and I see a guy go 0/10 with two restoration staves I don´t report him for griefing, because in my mind he was trying to play, same goes for a nightblade hiding because he only wants to try to killsteal. At the end of the day battlegrounds is only a vehicle for rewards like AP, your score adds damn near nothing to your AP gained. You can lose with 0 score and get 7k AP, you can win with 0 score and get 10,000 AP. If you have 4k score in either case, you get maybe 500 AP more.

How about we talk about the real issues, how Cyrodiil wants PvP players to go kill delve bosses for a AP buff, how there is no pacifist mode for Cyrodiil, how rewards in battlegrounds don´t even reward participation, and how overinflated the AP required to get to Grand Overlord actually is. They constantly have to incentivize PvP because at the end of the day, just like how its only 5% of the game, only 5% of the playerbase actually enjoys it and wants to participate for fun, which is the point of video games.

Anyone who says PvP is actually a major part of the game and a selling point is in denial. Its just sad IMO how it has to affect PvE because PvP will never be in a place the community will agree on. The Elder Scrolls has only been PvP focused in spin off titles such as The Elder Scrolls: Legends and The Elder Scrolls: Blades.

[edited to remove quote]

Arunei

BlackArgonian wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

BlackArgonian wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Theros wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Theros wrote: »

If i go and let be kill. Respawn time in 3s
If i go, fight to kill someone and when i die, i need to wait 20s to respawn. Looking for PC for 20s. it's just annoying!
The faster PvP end... the better

You did at least pick up the Scroll of Pelinal's Ferocity from Cyrodiil so you get double AP from these matches you're deliberately losing, right?

yes ofc! but.... i just hate PvP!
Waiting 20s when i die and other times 3s for no reason at all....
Go to Cyrodill and travel all map for 30 minutes to farm some skyshards, and start all over again cuz other aliance kill me...
Nothing in PvP make any sense in this game. Nothing!
I get all almost all Shards in Cyrodill https://prnt.sc/ytXRRUeCj_1Z but the last 4 real dont understand how in the hell i will get them (im Daggerfall)
Alliance war is at Lv.8... i try to max this skill line with event and i hope never return here again.
Like i say b4, PvP in ESO don't make any sence. I just hate it!

Do you have specific questions we can help explain? ESO doesn't explain how PVP works particularly well, but it does generally follow on logical principles.

To be fair, ESO doesn't explain much of anything well, that has been relegated to add-ons for the majority of difficult content people actually care about like Veteran Trials.

And honestly if people want to feed or afk in battlegrounds it's not a problem, I always tell raging battlegrounds flamers go find some friends to queue with instead of abusing strangers.

One of the major problems with PvP is how I basically have to make a character dedicated to PvP, I need CP, gear sets, Impenetrable traits, potions and poisons etc.

PvE gear was made completely useless by these factors so don't blame PvE players if they don't want to basically remake their characters for 1 event that is generally disliked by the community.

It's bad sportsmanship to deliberately throw a BG match instead of attempting to play as intended.

I suggest you take your own advice. Should you desire to feed the enemy, at least have the decency to queue up with your group of 3 friends so you all agree to throw or sit out the match together rather than ruin the match for random teammates who have a reasonable expectation that everyone who willingly queues up for a Battlegrounds match is going to try.

Don't abuse the goodwill of strangers yourself, just because you don't want to prepare to play a game mode you queued up for.

Yeah but with the current state of PvP if you go in with PvE gear you get melted in two seconds, so is going in PvE gear considered feeding to you? You cannot force random players to do what you want, look at the fake tank dilemma.

Intentional feeding and getting obliterated is basically the same thing.

You want to fight? Go queue for a fight. Want to win? Get a competent team, no different than Veteran Trials. Want a fair fight? Go duel in the desert.

There's literally no excuse you can make that changes the fact of feeding or afk'ing during a BG is a selfish thing to do. There's a huge difference between actually trying and not making even the slightest effort, even if the outcome is the same. You're essentially forcing your team into having only 3 members and ruining their experience simply because you can't be bothered into actually trying for the match.

As was said, take your own advice and queue with others who don't care about winning or losing, rather than being a source of frustration to a random team. I don't understand why people find having basic respect for their fellow players so difficult.

hafgood

Why should there be a pacifist mode for Cyrodiil? Whether you like it or not Cyrodiil is a PvP zone and the reason why there are PvP events is not to show PvPers some love, its to get people to try another aspect of the game that they may not have tried before. The idea is to get people interested in PvP.

Making pacifist modes or PvE versions ends that engagement and stops people experiencing PvP and finding out that it is no more toxic than a PUG dungeon run and a lot more fun.

VaranisArano

BlackArgonian wrote: »

thorwyn wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

blxdes wrote: »

Forcing people to do content they don't want? Let's look at it from a PVP perspective:

1. Psijic Skill Line: PVE
2. Mages Skill Line: PVE
3. Undaunted skill Line: PVE
4. Overland Gear: PVE
5. Dungeon Sets: PVE
6. Trial Sets: PVE
7. Mythic Items: PVE

Now, be thankful that people have given you some options to get your caltrops or war horn.

Which of those hide tickets behind them?

I have only done the first 2 to completion, perhaps the 3rd without realizing it. I miss out on many things.

This event is lousy because it forces targets for gankers.

We are not talking about tickets and we are not talking about an event, we are talking about SKILL LINES. And yes, PvP folks have to do all the PvE stuff if they want to get all the skill lines and equipment. Just like OP has to play some PvP to get the skill line he wants. All those complaints about "oh, I hate blablabla" and "oh, ZOS is forcing me to yadda yadda" are entitled nonsens. Deliberately sabotaging your team and the players who queued up for a BG giving their best and trying to put up a fight is a form of grief play and should be treated accordingly.

You can play PvP without any DLC, 2 of the 3 DLCs ever made permanently free are Battlegrounds and Imperial City. You might be at a disadvantage because you can´t hide in a corner and meditate without Psijic Order, and Scrying and Excavations had to have gear thrown into them otherwise they wouldn´t be profitable. Look at how people cry over not getting a system that involves combat in any way. PvP players will have to participate in 90% of the game to get more things yes (5% of it is pvp, the other 5% is trials) that is only logical for the company to make money. Also that content and can be done with only light attacks as it is inclusive and simple. You are not being asked to go complete a Veteran Trial to go dig up a mythic.

I would bet my Xanmeer that the reason we don´t get any new skill lines is because the nightmare it would be to balance in PvP. When I am in BGs and I see a guy go 0/10 with two restoration staves I don´t report him for griefing, because in my mind he was trying to play, same goes for a nightblade hiding because he only wants to try to killsteal. At the end of the day battlegrounds is only a vehicle for rewards like AP, your score adds damn near nothing to your AP gained. You can lose with 0 score and get 7k AP, you can win with 0 score and get 10,000 AP. If you have 4k score in either case, you get maybe 500 AP more.

How about we talk about the real issues, how Cyrodiil wants PvP players to go kill delve bosses for a AP buff, how there is no pacifist mode for Cyrodiil, how rewards in battlegrounds don´t even reward participation, and how overinflated the AP required to get to Grand Overlord actually is. They constantly have to incentivize PvP because at the end of the day, just like how its only 5% of the game, only 5% of the playerbase actually enjoys it and wants to participate for fun, which is the point of video games.

Anyone who says PvP is actually a major part of the game and a selling point is in denial. Its just sad IMO how it has to affect PvE because PvP will never be in a place the community will agree on. The Elder Scrolls has only been PvP focused in spin off titles such as The Elder Scrolls: Legends and The Elder Scrolls: Blades.

Last I heard from Lambert's stream, the technical reason we don't have new skill lines is due to limitations on last generation consoles limiting the Devs abilities to give players new animations, due to the way all player animations have to be readied in order to prevent T-posing.

But by all means, blame PVP if you desire.

Frankly, as a PVPer, ZOS doesn't have the least problem with throwing unbalanced skills and gear sets into PVP in the first place, so I don't see why they'd develop scruples now.

ZOS_Icy

Greetings!

We've locked this thread to prevent any further spiraling and due to its non-constructive nature. While we completely understand everyone has their own opinions, thoughts, feelings and even frustrations, we want the forums to be a civil and constructive platform for the game and it's community as a whole.

Thank you for your understanding.