Proposal: ESO-

Amottica

The crafting bag is a big draw for ESO+. Considering the cost of the DLCs that are released each year is significantly less than subscribing the bag is probably the biggest reason to pay more and subscribe vs buying the DLCs outright.

Zenimax very likely knows the business value of locking the bag behind the ESO+ making it doubtful they will grant access to it for anything less than a full subscription. The creation of this thread merely reinforced this.

Sorry.

gariondavey wrote: »

hafgood wrote: »

gariondavey wrote: »

So you think the access to like 15 dlc is worth 5 dollars a month, yet a bag is worth 15 dollars a month. Lol. Interesting...

I don't but as the majority of people who subscribe seem to want the craft bag it's always going to be in the top tier, its never going to be in a lower tier because Zos know a lot of people will drop tiers to just get the craft bag. They would lose more than they would gain, they know this, thats why there is no tiered system

Well I survive just fine without the craft bag. The dlc is what I am most after, and that can be done through gold to crowns. I don't think that the majority of players do it just for the craft bag. I could be wrong on that, but that just seems weird to me.

And you are correct about this. Players do not subscribe merely because of the crafting bag. It is the whole enchilada that they are paying for and enjoying. That is access to all DLCs, the added bank space, and the crafting bag. It is merely that the bag is the shiniest object.

gariondavey

Amottica wrote: »

The crafting bag is a big draw for ESO+. Considering the cost of the DLCs that are released each year is significantly less than subscribing the bag is probably the biggest reason to pay more and subscribe vs buying the DLCs outright.

Zenimax very likely knows the business value of locking the bag behind the ESO+ making it doubtful they will grant access to it for anything less than a full subscription. The creation of this thread merely reinforced this.

Sorry.

gariondavey wrote: »

hafgood wrote: »

gariondavey wrote: »

So you think the access to like 15 dlc is worth 5 dollars a month, yet a bag is worth 15 dollars a month. Lol. Interesting...

I don't but as the majority of people who subscribe seem to want the craft bag it's always going to be in the top tier, its never going to be in a lower tier because Zos know a lot of people will drop tiers to just get the craft bag. They would lose more than they would gain, they know this, thats why there is no tiered system

Well I survive just fine without the craft bag. The dlc is what I am most after, and that can be done through gold to crowns. I don't think that the majority of players do it just for the craft bag. I could be wrong on that, but that just seems weird to me.

And you are correct about this. Players do not subscribe merely because of the crafting bag. It is the whole enchilada that they are paying for and enjoying. That is access to all DLCs, the added bank space, and the crafting bag. It is merely that the bag is the shiniest object.

Interesting, thank you for your comment.

James-Wayne

I just want a furniture craft bag added to ESO Plus

ShalidorsHeir

gariondavey wrote: »

There must be other people out there similar to myself - people who either buy dlc with crowns for gold (me), buy crowns with real money and purchase dlc, or don't buy dlc at all.
These people do not subscribe to eso+.

I have no interest in the access to dlc from eso+, nor the crowns.
What I do have interest in is the craft bag.

I get by just fine with my own guild bank, and the use of add-ons combined with good inventory management, but the craft bag does have a certain appeal.

So my proposal is ESO-.
Craft bag/bank increase. Nothing else.
$5 a month.

I'd actually do this. Currently zos gets $0 from me. They would then get $60 from me (12x5).

Anyone else feel the same?
Thoughts?

and they would lose 1000000$ from players who currently think the same way but buy it for the sake of the crafting bag. So i guess to come up with that you would need to pay 9-10$ for the crafting bag only. Not because of fairness but because of business.

OmniaRR

This will never happen I'm afraid

EF321

I imagine them doing separate craft bag only sub only if they add furniture/sieges/consumables to regular eso+ all-things-bag.

DreamyLu

I can fully understand OP. I'm myself another good example. I'm PvE and:
- I buy areas to have them forever.
- I have no interest in dungeon DLCs.
- Housing is a sporadic activity only and the few free ESO+ trials per year are good enough.
- I'm very rarely interested in anything of the crown store, so to get crowns every month is of no use to me.

All in all, fact is that only the crafting bags would motivate me to go for a monthly fee. Just, at current price, no way. So, like OP, I don't pay at all, whereas if the option would exist, I would straight afford one year.

I'm not sure how many casual PvE players have the same thinking and how much potential cash it would bring to ZOS. Probably not enough, otherwise, they would have implemented that!

Bobby_V_Rockit

It depends on how many new subscribers they would gain vs. the loss of current subbers. I’ve been subbing for years and welcome the idea of a cheaper option for the craft bag. Idgaf about DLC dungeons and buy the zones with the crowns anyway.

How many new subscribers would be necessary to offset the loss/reduction of current ones?

KhajiitLivesMatter

Arunei wrote: »

Personally they should make a limited version of the craft bag base game at this rate. They've introduced so many more items since the start of the game that I can't imagine how people without + manage everything (or at least those who have crafters and thus store the mats to use). A restricted version of the craft bag that can maybe hold up to 200 unique items and maybe two or three stacks would probably do wonders for a lot of people.

200 items is 1 stack of stuff thats nothing - if u do 200 of each item than that would be a good start - u need like already 170? to craft 1 armor piece - with hardeners u would be already way to close to 200

gariondavey

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

It depends on how many new subscribers they would gain vs. the loss of current subbers. I’ve been subbing for years and welcome the idea of a cheaper option for the craft bag. Idgaf about DLC dungeons and buy the zones with the crowns anyway.

How many new subscribers would be necessary to offset the loss/reduction of current ones?

Current situation:
A (number of eso+ subscribers) x 15 (eso+ cost per month

Break even situation:
( A - B ) x 15 + B x 5 + C x 5
B is number of players who swap to eso-
C is number of new eso- subscribers

Equate our 2 situations for break even, substitute in 100 players for A for an easy number. Assume 75 players drop eso+ for eso-. You can put different numbers in for B other than 75 if you think a different amount would drop to eso-.

100 x 15 = (100 - 75) x 15 + 75 x 5 + C x 5
1500 = 375 + 375 + 5C
750 = 5C
C = 150
150 new players need to sign up compared to the initial 100, assuming 75 of those 100 drop to eso-.

If you assume 50 drop
1500 = 750 + 250 + 5C
C = 100

If you assume 25 drop
1500 = 1125 + 125 + 5C
C = 50

I don't think I made any mistakes, but if I did, my apologies.

Tandor

Given that the crafting bag is the main reason people pay $15 per month for ESO+ notwithstanding the other benefits, the only way ZOS would ever be tempted to consider a lesser "ESO + Lite" package would be if it just offered the other benefits, i.e. with the crafting bag excluded. Not quite what those after a cheap crafting bag are thinking of!

Amottica

gariondavey wrote: »

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

It depends on how many new subscribers they would gain vs. the loss of current subbers. I’ve been subbing for years and welcome the idea of a cheaper option for the craft bag. Idgaf about DLC dungeons and buy the zones with the crowns anyway.

How many new subscribers would be necessary to offset the loss/reduction of current ones?

Current situation:
A (number of eso+ subscribers) x 15 (eso+ cost per month

Break even situation:
( A - B ) x 15 + B x 5 + C x 5
B is number of players who swap to eso-
C is number of new eso- subscribers

Equate our 2 situations for break even, substitute in 100 players for A for an easy number. Assume 75 players drop eso+ for eso-. You can put different numbers in for B other than 75 if you think a different amount would drop to eso-.

100 x 15 = (100 - 75) x 15 + 75 x 5 + C x 5
1500 = 375 + 375 + 5C
750 = 5C
C = 150
150 new players need to sign up compared to the initial 100, assuming 75 of those 100 drop to eso-.

If you assume 50 drop
1500 = 750 + 250 + 5C
C = 100

If you assume 25 drop
1500 = 1125 + 125 + 5C
C = 50

I don't think I made any mistakes, but if I did, my apologies.

That is not how to look at it.

First, look at the cost of DLCs rolled out each year and that cost would be based on buying crowns on sale. This is making the false assumption that everyone who buys DLCs buys all the DLCs including dungeons. As such the number would be high but this is just for discussion.

Then take a look at the subscription cost for a full year. Of course, this does not take into account many players will pay more for their sub by choosing the monthly or quarterly rate.

Either way, it demonstrates why Zenimax prioritizes subscribers over DLC purchases, and should. The real difference is greater than that since many will buy fewer DLCs and many will pay more for their sub.

Zenimax gives us a choice on how we will access the content they add to the game. Each of us makes that choice and lives with it. You can continue playing that content you purchased for years to come without paying any more. We have to keep paying a sub to keep playing it.

Riptide

My wife and I subscribe purely for the craft bag, the times Ive let it lapse I just cannot conceive of the hellish micromanagement of living without it - and neither of us are hardcore crafters. I’ve been around from the start.

Personally, I think it is such a necessary quality of life feature that it ought to be provided in expansion costs, and that they lose a lot of people on the front end due to inventory annoyance. Sure, that annoyance converts heaps to ESO+ but its a cessation of pain conversion rather than a feature gain positive conversion.

Again, both the wife and I subscribe and have for years - despite criticisms I make here I really do support the game.

But I’ve also brought many people to ESO. Many as in more than twenty. Very few subscribe and go long term. Quest overwhelm and inventory headaches as they try to get their footing has been ubiquitous, and almost all drift off before they get to the point where they reach full on adoption status.

This has been especially true where my friends who bought the game with latest expansion and then are annoyed to the point of disinterest by their overwhelmed inventory and face having to make a long term, ongoing investment on top of what they already paid for the newest expansion and all of it. It rankles them on principle, and they wander off.

But I’m pessimistic there is the structure or internal leadership to holistically look at the subscription model, look into those sort of metrics and datum, to revamp and to err on the side of long term rather than short term gains. Which is why it hasn’t changed substantively since it was introduced. It is considered canon, apparently

Solarius_eu

They would lose from some people only paying for the craft bag, I'm sure, but there may be gains too. I run several accounts, but sub ESO+ on only my main. If I could get just the craft bag for 1/3 or 1/4 the price of full ESO+, I'd probably get that for all 4 of my accounts instead, so would be no net loss, even maybe slight gain from me!

Arunei

Everyone always claims that ZOS would lose money if they made the craft bag available for a lower cost or even made it base game. I'd like to know, however, if this has actually ever been outright stated by any of the devs, or if it's just hearsay that everyone repeats because they've seen everyone else say it for so long. I'm being serious here btw, I have a crappy memory and can't remember ever seeing an official word on whether most people subscribe for the craft bag.

Personally I very much doubt it. People should remember everything else that comes with a subscription. While I myself largely subscribe for the crafting bag, even if it was removed from the subscription I would still pay it, nor would I be at all bothered others could get it for less or part as base game. I also rely heavily on the double bank space, and as an RPer I pretty much need to be able to dye weapons and costumes. I also very much need the double furnishing space, because the defaults are far too low to work with. I'd still pay to get access to all the DLCs I haven't bought, and because 1,625 Crowns for 15 bucks is more than you'd get just outright buying the 1.5k pack for pretty much the same cost.

Let's face it, the fact that ZOS has added hundreds of new items to the game with no inventory/bank space expansion save two pets that add a whole 20 slots is a pretty solid example of 'create a problem sell the solution'. They sell the solution in those pets and the craft bag, when honestly the latter should be base game at this point.

Arunei

KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

Personally they should make a limited version of the craft bag base game at this rate. They've introduced so many more items since the start of the game that I can't imagine how people without + manage everything (or at least those who have crafters and thus store the mats to use). A restricted version of the craft bag that can maybe hold up to 200 unique items and maybe two or three stacks would probably do wonders for a lot of people.

200 items is 1 stack of stuff thats nothing - if u do 200 of each item than that would be a good start - u need like already 170? to craft 1 armor piece - with hardeners u would be already way to close to 200

No, I was saying up to 200 unique items, as in different things like Rubedite, Cornflower, Kuta, and so on, and then have up to maybe three stacks of each unique item (so up to 600 of each of those 200 different items). It'd be very heavily nerfed from what we have now, but at least that'd be potentially 1.2k things not cluttering a person's inventory and/or bank.

wolfie1.0.

Honestly what is needed is a crafting mat overhaul. The early cp mats are pointless. With the hybrid direction that zos is heading with buff mergers many alchemy plants will be redundant unless zos comes up with a use for them. The Enchanting skill tree is a mess ( I have more jejota than every other enchanting option) provisioning has recipes that are pointless and redundant stuff in it to. Pair this down and you eliminate a lot of storage space.

As for this topic I just caution you not to give zos ideas. They may decide to split the craft bag from the rest of the plus products, however why would they offer it at a reduced price? NEVER assume that they will do that. It is way more likely that they will want more from you not less. They might, might go for an 11.99 usd package, but that's akin to what we are getting now if you sub annually

We will see but I caution yall to be very careful what you ask for from zos, because they have proven that what you get isn't exactly what you ask for.

Tornaad

Yes, they would likely have some subscribers downgrade from the current level of ESO plus to the lower level, but they will also likely gain more subscribers to the new level, and the question we really do not have the info to put forth an informed opinion on is would the increased number of subscribers offset the loss of income from the people who downgrade.
Typically, giving more options will result in more customers. So if I had to take a guess, then yes, the gains would offset the losses.

Amottica

Solarius_eu wrote: »

They would lose from some people only paying for the craft bag, I'm sure, but there may be gains too. I run several accounts, but sub ESO+ on only my main. If I could get just the craft bag for 1/3 or 1/4 the price of full ESO+, I'd probably get that for all 4 of my accounts instead, so would be no net loss, even maybe slight gain from me!

We can speculate all we want but we lack the real information. However, we can compare costs.

The lowest annual cost for ESO+ is $139.99

If someone purchases each DLC released during a year, including the DLC that was last years chapter.

8500 $60 or $36 with crown sale. Assuming purchasing the 14k crown pack. The difference is over $100 because it only makes sense to purchase crowns on sale if buying DLCs or selling crowns for gold.

That is only 25% of the lowest subscription cost. That means the deal being offered is a money-losing proposition for Zenimax any way one looks at it.

It also shows that selling the crafting bag outright would also be a bad business decision for Zenimax.

EvilAutoTech

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

We will see but I caution yall to be very careful what you ask for from zos, because they have proven that what you get isn't exactly what you ask for.

It's almost like asking a Djinn for a wish. You'll get what you asked for but in a way that will make you wish you'd kept your mouth shut.

Khami

gariondavey wrote: »

hafgood wrote: »

Tell you what, yes I like your suggestion, for $5 a month you get the DLC's, for $10 a month you also get the bank space and for $15 a month you get those perks plus the dyeing ability plus the housing slots and the craft bag.

So yes you can have your tiered subscription, just not the way you want it

So you think the access to like 15 dlc is worth 5 dollars a month, yet a bag is worth 15 dollars a month. Lol. Interesting...

Yes, many feel the $15 per month is worth it for the crafting bag and double bank space. I spend my crowns on various things including the story zones dlcs when they're on sale. I do pre-order the chapters, like I did with the game back in 2014. I do not feel the dungeon dlcs are worth 1500 crowns each. If I do drop my sub, I'll miss the crafting bag before I'll miss the dlc dungeons.

Celephantsylvius_Bornasfinmo

I feel that the pricing in ESO does not correspond to the quality of the content delivered.

- The DLC's are not very engaging and believe me I do quest in other games
- The added systems are grind mechanics behind pay walls
- The community for end game raiding is very mixed, unstable and not that friendly, still
- Crashes in raids, low fps, medium attacks firing instead of light, bosses bugging, not being about to rez in certain raids
- Cyrodiil is unplayable at normal playable times and the new set additions just made it worse
- Crafting bag is a hold up (You weep in sorrow if you have maxed all your inventory slots)

Housing is probably the thing saving ESO in regards to ESO+ as from what I've learnt, this game probably has the most extensive 'housing' system in the MMO niche, but I don't think it's enough to slap on the subscription price and on top of that deliver full game pricing for DLCs.

There are good sides to ESO, but pricing and lack of intervention from the producer in many sectors of the game make me not want to resubscribe myself.

Ascarl

Actually I don t mind if I pay 5€ or more, I just want to get rid of the ESO+ penality of DLC dungeons in the random queue.

EvilAutoTech

ESO+/-

Everything included in plus minus the dungeon dlc, $19.99 per month.

Arunei

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

Honestly what is needed is a crafting mat overhaul. The early cp mats are pointless. With the hybrid direction that zos is heading with buff mergers many alchemy plants will be redundant unless zos comes up with a use for them. The Enchanting skill tree is a mess ( I have more jejota than every other enchanting option) provisioning has recipes that are pointless and redundant stuff in it to. Pair this down and you eliminate a lot of storage space.

The low-CP mats aren't exactly useless, since low-CP players will need them for crafting their own sets and all, though they could maybe condense them down to three or four groups, like 10-50, 60-100, and then 110-160? You can't really require ALL CP to use only one mat at increasingly high requirements because that would burn through those mats super quick.

As for Recipes, I agree on that matter. There are Recipes that so the same thing at the same level and honestly it's kind of pointless. Recipes could be cut down on massively by just making them all scale based on level, like most Gold and numerous Purple Food/Drink do, and then just have a handful of Recipes rather than the hundreds there are now.