Nightblade - Does it need a rework/update?

MindOfTheSwarm

For a long time many players have felt that over the years Nightblade has slowly lost its identity. Others would disagree and say the class is fine. I want to know the communities thoughts on this and so I have started a poll to address this issue. If anyone has specific points, please comment below.

MindOfTheSwarm

Yes, but just a few skills need updating.

Gonna say yes but not a complete rehash with new skills and such. Just some tweaks to existing skills and passives would help regain identity which I feel has been missing for a long time.

katanagirl1

Not sure how to vote on this one. This is my main character, I know the skills and have played for many years. Other players seem to think NBs who use invisibility portions are using cloak instead and call for constant nerfs. NB has been nerfed into the ground, rarely anyone plays it except for stealing anymore.

Relentless Focus could use an update. It has to be the most convoluted skill out there. Maybe I could do decent dps if not for this skill.

geonsocal

katanagirl1 wrote: »

Not sure how to vote on this one. This is my main character, I know the skills and have played for many years. Other players seem to think NBs who use invisibility portions are using cloak instead and call for constant nerfs. NB has been nerfed into the ground, rarely anyone plays it except for stealing anymore.

Relentless Focus could use an update. It has to be the most convoluted skill out there. Maybe I could do decent dps if not for this skill.

yeah, all this pretty much here, especially the relentless focus bit...almost 7 years now and i still can't get the dang thing to reliably work...

sadly, it does show up fairly frequently though on my own death recaps...

Edit: i was just speaking from a pvp perspective...as far as dungeoning, my nightblades (2mag, 1 stam) would probably be my last choices to use to run a group dungeon...

so, unless you're doing specific content - the class could probably use some help...cuz of the perma cloak thing though, it would be easy to over tune it in pvp...

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

Yes, it needs a complete rework from the ground up.

To be fair I think all the base classes need a complete rework their roles have been stepped on with the new classes. Nerfs over the years just been all over the place.

Necro showed that ZoS now know how to make a balanced class with a clear identity a fresh update for everyone would be nice. Let all the class be able to play any role but in their own way. Let’s be honest the whole “any class, any role” and “play your way” was not really a thing with Tanking being balanced for DK and Templars, healing being balanced for Templars and Sorcs and NB being the DPS baseline.

the1andonlyskwex

As long as NBs have stealth they're going to be hard to balance in PvP, but I seriously doubt there are many NB mains who would be willing to give up their stealth for (probably pretty small) buffs in other areas.

colossalvoids

If the team that made necro would touch it too much I'd not be there to test the changes probably. It needs tweaking in a sense, but this should be in no way a rework. I'd better keep all the identity left, it's still one of the survivors of original class design making them popular enough without looking at their performance at specific fields.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

Yes, it needs a complete rework from the ground up.

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

As long as NBs have stealth they're going to be hard to balance in PvP, but I seriously doubt there are many NB mains who would be willing to give up their stealth for (probably pretty small) buffs in other areas.

I don’t think that’s true annoying definitely but I thing the strength of Nightblades should be in single targeting not AoEs. I’m thinking the power to smash the strongest shield but no ability to Nightblade bomb.

Darkstorne

Yes, but just a few skills need updating.

Yeah, there are certainly a few skills that stand out as clearly not being up to par.

Mass Hysteria for example, a class skill: Summon a dark spirit to terrify up to 6 enemies, causing them to cower in fear for 3 seconds. (increases to 5 seconds after investing two more skill points in a passive, the second of which requires being level 50).

Compared to:

Fighter's Guild Turn Evil: Brand the earth at your location with a rune of protection for 20 seconds. You and your allies in the area gain Minor Protection and Minor Endurance, reducing your damage taken by 5% and increasing your Stamina Recovery by 15%. Upon activation, enemies in the area are feared for 5 seconds.

So for three skill points (due to the passives required) you get a crowd control that is still weaker than this alternative available to all classes. Like... I have no idea why a tank would slot Mass Hysteria over Turn Evil. You can fear a maximum of 6 adds, or you can fear all the adds plus get stamina regen and minor protection for you and your allies for 20 seconds. What even...

50/50 odds that someone at ZOS reads this, agrees it's an issue, and swings the nerf hammer at Turn Evil...

Even compared to other class skills focused on CC it's lacking. DK's AOE immobilize also deals damage and can apply minor maim. Sorc's deals damage or grants the tank major vitality. Warden's deals damage over time, snares, and has a high chance of applying chilled. Necro's grants minor protection to self and allies, and minor vulnerability to affected enemies. It's SO WEIRD that the Nightblade CC only fears, has a target cap, and only reaches a standard length of time after you start to calculate in the passive effects from its skill tree. At which point you then need to factor in all the benefits the other classes get from their passives for it to become a fair comparison again.

Tommy_The_Gun

Yes, but just a few skills need updating.

- Mass Hysteria needs a tiny buff (1 or 2 additional effects) - because Turn Evil exists just fine and it is a guilds skill that is just outclassing a class skill.
- Healthy Offering morph should go back to health cost only (other morph stays).
- Some abilities should have cast time removed / reduced (for example teleport strike & morphs and Death Stroke & morphs)
- Consuming Darkness ultimate & morphs is probably the worst ultimate in the game. It either needs a rework or some substantial buff. Idk what that could be thought. Maybe it should "follow" you around, like the destro ulti aoe does.

Mojmir

Yes, but just a few skills need updating.

Crippling grasp should have its cost lowered
Merciless resolve has some issues, it procs but then when you fire it it just recasts

MindOfTheSwarm

Yes, but just a few skills need updating.

Mojmir wrote: »

Crippling grasp should have its cost lowered
Merciless resolve has some issues, it procs but then when you fire it it just recasts

I actually like that it does this as it means I don’t need to worry about recasting it over and over.

MindOfTheSwarm

Yes, but just a few skills need updating.

This might sound controversial but I feel Stealth should have a cooldown once stealth is broken. Maybe 4 seconds. However, to compensate their would be 2 seconds of unrevealable on activation and it would last forever until stealth is broken again. Stealth would be broken in these circumstances.

Activating a non-buff ability.
Taking Direct Damage.
Detection abilities and effects.
Dodge rolling.
Effects that require being revealed, scroll running as an example.

Sprinting and jumping would not break stealth.

Furthermore, this would allow the opportunity for stealth to augment other abilities in the kit.

Ambush could remove armor, Killer’s Blade could add a Bleed and 1 Second silence as examples.
These effects would be strong but could not be spammed due to the cooldown. This would give stealth both pve applications and change it up for PvP, removing its spammable nature while balancing it out with some powerful effects.

the1andonlyskwex

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

As long as NBs have stealth they're going to be hard to balance in PvP, but I seriously doubt there are many NB mains who would be willing to give up their stealth for (probably pretty small) buffs in other areas.

I don’t think that’s true annoying definitely but I thing the strength of Nightblades should be in single targeting not AoEs. I’m thinking the power to smash the strongest shield but no ability to Nightblade bomb.

They can't give NBs more single target damage because then they'll be able to reliably kill people from stealth without any counterplay (which isn't fun for anyone other than the NB).

xxslam48xxb14_ESO

Yes, but just a few skills need updating.

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

As long as NBs have stealth they're going to be hard to balance in PvP, but I seriously doubt there are many NB mains who would be willing to give up their stealth for (probably pretty small) buffs in other areas.

I don’t think that’s true annoying definitely but I thing the strength of Nightblades should be in single targeting not AoEs. I’m thinking the power to smash the strongest shield but no ability to Nightblade bomb.

They can't give NBs more single target damage because then they'll be able to reliably kill people from stealth without any counterplay (which isn't fun for anyone other than the NB).

Lots of things are not fun for anyone besides the person playing it. Like perma block tanks, ball groups(this lags the entire server so its even worse), bombers of all kinds...

Nbs need some single target damage because right now we are pretty reliant of proc sets like calurions to deal high burst. The burst is of course overkill on 90% of players, but absolutely mandatory for even having a chance at killing good players. This is why lots of games are balanced around the top tier players and not the 90% that are still in 2022 getting 1 shotted by nbs.

I would like to see nbs get some tank buster abilities or morphs. Abilities that scale with your enemies hp and damage resist(not armor). Would hit lower on the poor 90%, but smack hard on the players abusing tank meta. Think hrothgars or knight slayer, but as abilities. Would also like an offensive purge to remove all those hots off of enemy players or a silence effect to stop them from applying them in the first place.

ADarklore

No, the class and its abilities are fine as they are.

I personally don't see a problem with Nightblade... but that's from a solo PVE perspective. I used to hate Nightblade, but over the years I'd eventually come back to it and try again... and now I absolutely love it!! I think it really takes getting used to and learning how to use the class properly. Although, that being said, the main reason I love it is because it gives me the option to completely avoid fighting by cloaking past enemies! When you quest non-stop, it gets old having to fight enemies all the way down into a delve, then fight your way out again because the enemies respawned. So it's nice to have an option to fight when I want, or cloak when I don't.

Now, with changes coming to Update 33, I'll actually be able to swap a couple of the Stamina skills over to Magicka on my Stamblade, as I think Merciless Resolve and Sap Essence are much better versions vs their Stamina morphs.

Luede

xxslam48xxb14_ESO wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

As long as NBs have stealth they're going to be hard to balance in PvP, but I seriously doubt there are many NB mains who would be willing to give up their stealth for (probably pretty small) buffs in other areas.

I don’t think that’s true annoying definitely but I thing the strength of Nightblades should be in single targeting not AoEs. I’m thinking the power to smash the strongest shield but no ability to Nightblade bomb.

They can't give NBs more single target damage because then they'll be able to reliably kill people from stealth without any counterplay (which isn't fun for anyone other than the NB).

Lots of things are not fun for anyone besides the person playing it. Like perma block tanks, ball groups(this lags the entire server so its even worse), bombers of all kinds...

Nbs need some single target damage because right now we are pretty reliant of proc sets like calurions to deal high burst. The burst is of course overkill on 90% of players, but absolutely mandatory for even having a chance at killing good players. This is why lots of games are balanced around the top tier players and not the 90% that are still in 2022 getting 1 shotted by nbs.

I would like to see nbs get some tank buster abilities or morphs. Abilities that scale with your enemies hp and damage resist(not armor). Would hit lower on the poor 90%, but smack hard on the players abusing tank meta. Think hrothgars or knight slayer, but as abilities. Would also like an offensive purge to remove all those hots off of enemy players or a silence effect to stop them from applying them in the first place.

If you can't kill top tier, you're not top tier. quite easy

Lucozade85

Yes, but just a few skills need updating.

Unfortunately PvP will probably prevent any buffs to the NB, a shame considering it's my main and I don't PvP.

Some slight tweaks for PvE would be great.

BXR_Lonestar

Yes, but just a few skills need updating.

I don't main a nightblade, so I'm not the best authority on this topic, but I do have a nightblade ganker that I play in PVP quite often. What I can tell you is that as a stamina nightblade, I hardly use ANY nightblade skills. All my abilities are from weapons, or guild skill lines, or pvp skill lines, with Mark Target and invis being my only actual class skills. When you basically ignore all of the class abilities that are available to you because there are better options elsewhere, something is wrong.

I'm not even sure how the class could be reworked, but I would definitely like to see more NB skills be more useful overall - PVP or PVE.

McTaterskins

Neutral on the issue.

I'm pretty indifferent on this one. I've been playing NB a lot lately.

My only concern coming up will be - the lack of healing capability as a stamina setup vs. the other class kits. At least for builds that use shadowy disguise over dark cloak.

I like the dynamic of a squishy high burst escape artist being in the mix to help my team take out targets, especially with all of the excess healing going on as of late. When I get caught, I can get melted. I whole heartedly accept that fate.

However, the high burst will mean far less after U33, while still remaining squishy. I won't be able to contribute to my group as well with a whole segment of NB playstyle, the primary/unique segment at that, because in U33, even more so than now, so many folks will have the ability to burst heal for days, over mitigating burst potential beyond a full raid group or zerg impact.

There's going to be a lot of stalemates and I'm not necessarily sure one particular class or another will be the problem, identity crisis or not. There are already an over abundance of stalemates now. More-so than ever before. At least in my couple years of tenure. (Started 3months before Greymoor.)

MindOfTheSwarm

Yes, but just a few skills need updating.

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

I don't main a nightblade, so I'm not the best authority on this topic, but I do have a nightblade ganker that I play in PVP quite often. What I can tell you is that as a stamina nightblade, I hardly use ANY nightblade skills. All my abilities are from weapons, or guild skill lines, or pvp skill lines, with Mark Target and invis being my only actual class skills. When you basically ignore all of the class abilities that are available to you because there are better options elsewhere, something is wrong.

I'm not even sure how the class could be reworked, but I would definitely like to see more NB skills be more useful overall - PVP or PVE.

100% correct. Options outside of skills are better for Stam. The assassination line in particular. Stampede is better than Ambush, Executioner is better than Killer’s Blade, that leaves Relentless Focus and Incap and that’s about it. But then again Dawnbreaker is better than Incap when you think about it.

Parasaurolophus

Yes, but just a few skills need updating.

NB has been the worst class for pvp for a long time. We don't have a burst. Grim Focus is very bad as it takes a long time to stack and is very easy to dodge. Yes, we have invisibility, but you can't kill anyone with one invisibility. When everyone around is playing heavy wardens, necromancers or dk, nb has no chance.

Snamyap

I mainly want the heal back on twisting path. That change really pissed me of.

Kynetik

katanagirl1 wrote: »

Not sure how to vote on this one. This is my main character, I know the skills and have played for many years. Other players seem to think NBs who use invisibility portions are using cloak instead and call for constant nerfs. NB has been nerfed into the ground, rarely anyone plays it except for stealing anymore.

Relentless Focus could use an update. It has to be the most convoluted skill out there. Maybe I could do decent dps if not for this skill.

What do you mean by saying it’s the most convoluted skill and it’s stopping you from getting higher dps? What issues are you having with it? I’m just curious btw, not being hostile

The only issue I have noticed with it is that the icon will not change at 5 stacks but this isn’t very often

xxslam48xxb14_ESO

Yes, but just a few skills need updating.

Luede wrote: »

xxslam48xxb14_ESO wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

As long as NBs have stealth they're going to be hard to balance in PvP, but I seriously doubt there are many NB mains who would be willing to give up their stealth for (probably pretty small) buffs in other areas.

I don’t think that’s true annoying definitely but I thing the strength of Nightblades should be in single targeting not AoEs. I’m thinking the power to smash the strongest shield but no ability to Nightblade bomb.

They can't give NBs more single target damage because then they'll be able to reliably kill people from stealth without any counterplay (which isn't fun for anyone other than the NB).

Lots of things are not fun for anyone besides the person playing it. Like perma block tanks, ball groups(this lags the entire server so its even worse), bombers of all kinds...

Nbs need some single target damage because right now we are pretty reliant of proc sets like calurions to deal high burst. The burst is of course overkill on 90% of players, but absolutely mandatory for even having a chance at killing good players. This is why lots of games are balanced around the top tier players and not the 90% that are still in 2022 getting 1 shotted by nbs.

I would like to see nbs get some tank buster abilities or morphs. Abilities that scale with your enemies hp and damage resist(not armor). Would hit lower on the poor 90%, but smack hard on the players abusing tank meta. Think hrothgars or knight slayer, but as abilities. Would also like an offensive purge to remove all those hots off of enemy players or a silence effect to stop them from applying them in the first place.

If you can't kill top tier, you're not top tier. quite easy

I do kill them though. I got a collection of 150+ images of pure salt as trophies for my efforts. Everyone from big name streamers to sweaty tower humpers, ive killed them all.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Yes, but just a few skills need updating.

Mostly from a PVE perspective (Mag DPS):

For the most part, I just feel it needs a small damage buff. For the vast majority of the game, I would have said nightblades have a high ceiling, but a low floor in damage, because their rotation is one of the trickiest to perform. It really needs to be played dynamically, it is very dependent on a good LA weave, and the rotation is not very forgiving (damage falls hard with only a few mistakes). I was fine with that because I generally believe in rewarding skilled gameplay, and nightblades where perhaps the best at that. Now I just feel like that even when I am near perfect on my rotation on my NB, I am still behind a sloppy DK or Sorc in damage.

I think the best comparison to NB has always been Sorc. I have long believed that the best players would do more damage on a NB, but that most players would actually do slightly better on a sorc because the rotation is easier and a more forgiving. Now, it doesnt seem that tradeoff exists any longer. My sorc is much further ahead these days, and I am pretty decent on a NB.

I do still prefer NB as my main PVE DPS class. I like that I dont have to deal with Pets (sorc) or am stuck in melee (DK). Those are certainly the three classes that I play the most as a PVE DPS.

MindOfTheSwarm

Yes, but just a few skills need updating.

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Mostly from a PVE perspective (Mag DPS):

For the most part, I just feel it needs a small damage buff. For the vast majority of the game, I would have said nightblades have a high ceiling, but a low floor in damage, because their rotation is one of the trickiest to perform. It really needs to be played dynamically, it is very dependent on a good LA weave, and the rotation is not very forgiving (damage falls hard with only a few mistakes). I was fine with that because I generally believe in rewarding skilled gameplay, and nightblades where perhaps the best at that. Now I just feel like that even when I am near perfect on my rotation on my NB, I am still behind a sloppy DK or Sorc in damage.

I think the best comparison to NB has always been Sorc. I have long believed that the best players would do more damage on a NB, but that most players would actually do slightly better on a sorc because the rotation is easier and a more forgiving. Now, it doesnt seem that tradeoff exists any longer. My sorc is much further ahead these days, and I am pretty decent on a NB.

I do still prefer NB as my main PVE DPS class. I like that I dont have to deal with Pets (sorc) or am stuck in melee (DK). Those are certainly the three classes that I play the most as a PVE DPS.

The poll is about class identity rather than damage buff or balancing issues. But. Yes, some abilities could use a buff here and there however.
The poll was trying to point out that the class feels off as a whole. The Assassination line doesn’t live up to its name as most options outside of the line are just flat out better. The Shadow line has like 2 abilities that could be really called ‘Shadow’ skills. Siphoning feels muddled in what it is trying to do.
You are correct on the difficulty on achieving high damage compared to the ease of other classes, this is another issue the class has.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

Yes, it needs a complete rework from the ground up.

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

As long as NBs have stealth they're going to be hard to balance in PvP, but I seriously doubt there are many NB mains who would be willing to give up their stealth for (probably pretty small) buffs in other areas.

I don’t think that’s true annoying definitely but I thing the strength of Nightblades should be in single targeting not AoEs. I’m thinking the power to smash the strongest shield but no ability to Nightblade bomb.

They can't give NBs more single target damage because then they'll be able to reliably kill people from stealth without any counterplay (which isn't fun for anyone other than the NB).

PvP is a war zone where you can let your guard down with no real problems. I don’t want other classes to lose their AoE power but high single target works very well for Nightblade lore.

In PvE this is great for boss fights and in PvP it keep enemies on their toes and encourages group play. We have an shortage of unfun to fight builds I think a class forcing you to be ready at all times fits the three way war theme.

Wandering_Immigrant

No, the class and its abilities are fine as they are.

Snamyap wrote: »

I mainly want the heal back on twisting path. That change really pissed me of.

I'll trade you, the healing back on twisting path for the expedition back on phantasmal escape.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Yes, but just a few skills need updating.

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Mostly from a PVE perspective (Mag DPS):

For the most part, I just feel it needs a small damage buff. For the vast majority of the game, I would have said nightblades have a high ceiling, but a low floor in damage, because their rotation is one of the trickiest to perform. It really needs to be played dynamically, it is very dependent on a good LA weave, and the rotation is not very forgiving (damage falls hard with only a few mistakes). I was fine with that because I generally believe in rewarding skilled gameplay, and nightblades where perhaps the best at that. Now I just feel like that even when I am near perfect on my rotation on my NB, I am still behind a sloppy DK or Sorc in damage.

I think the best comparison to NB has always been Sorc. I have long believed that the best players would do more damage on a NB, but that most players would actually do slightly better on a sorc because the rotation is easier and a more forgiving. Now, it doesnt seem that tradeoff exists any longer. My sorc is much further ahead these days, and I am pretty decent on a NB.

I do still prefer NB as my main PVE DPS class. I like that I dont have to deal with Pets (sorc) or am stuck in melee (DK). Those are certainly the three classes that I play the most as a PVE DPS.

The poll is about class identity rather than damage buff or balancing issues. But. Yes, some abilities could use a buff here and there however.
The poll was trying to point out that the class feels off as a whole. The Assassination line doesn’t live up to its name as most options outside of the line are just flat out better. The Shadow line has like 2 abilities that could be really called ‘Shadow’ skills. Siphoning feels muddled in what it is trying to do.
You are correct on the difficulty on achieving high damage compared to the ease of other classes, this is another issue the class has.

NBs have probably had the most class identity of any class since launch. I dont think the identity has changed, I just think they are less effective than they used to be. Their PVE DPS identity has also been high single target damage with a difficult yet rewarding rotation. The only thing that has changed is that they dont do quite as much damage compared to the easier alternatives like sorc or DK. Hence, they need a small damage buff...

MindOfTheSwarm

Yes, but just a few skills need updating.

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Mostly from a PVE perspective (Mag DPS):

For the most part, I just feel it needs a small damage buff. For the vast majority of the game, I would have said nightblades have a high ceiling, but a low floor in damage, because their rotation is one of the trickiest to perform. It really needs to be played dynamically, it is very dependent on a good LA weave, and the rotation is not very forgiving (damage falls hard with only a few mistakes). I was fine with that because I generally believe in rewarding skilled gameplay, and nightblades where perhaps the best at that. Now I just feel like that even when I am near perfect on my rotation on my NB, I am still behind a sloppy DK or Sorc in damage.

I think the best comparison to NB has always been Sorc. I have long believed that the best players would do more damage on a NB, but that most players would actually do slightly better on a sorc because the rotation is easier and a more forgiving. Now, it doesnt seem that tradeoff exists any longer. My sorc is much further ahead these days, and I am pretty decent on a NB.

I do still prefer NB as my main PVE DPS class. I like that I dont have to deal with Pets (sorc) or am stuck in melee (DK). Those are certainly the three classes that I play the most as a PVE DPS.

The poll is about class identity rather than damage buff or balancing issues. But. Yes, some abilities could use a buff here and there however.
The poll was trying to point out that the class feels off as a whole. The Assassination line doesn’t live up to its name as most options outside of the line are just flat out better. The Shadow line has like 2 abilities that could be really called ‘Shadow’ skills. Siphoning feels muddled in what it is trying to do.
You are correct on the difficulty on achieving high damage compared to the ease of other classes, this is another issue the class has.

NBs have probably had the most class identity of any class since launch. I dont think the identity has changed, I just think they are less effective than they used to be. Their PVE DPS identity has also been high single target damage with a difficult yet rewarding rotation. The only thing that has changed is that they dont do quite as much damage compared to the easier alternatives like sorc or DK. Hence, they need a small damage buff...

Identity is not about DPS or role. It’s about how they operate thematically. Take Assassination line as an example. At first glance it seems like it definitely has that theme locked down with its abilities, but then when you step back and compare it to other classes and abilities it doesn’t feel unique at all. Stampede is better as a gap closer as it is instant, Executioner does better than Killer’s Blade, Blur is a defensive skill and has nothing to do with Assassination. Death Stroke is good but then there is Dawnbreaker. Then compare these class skills with other class skills. Templar being a good example of a class that is better at assassinating with its class skills than NB. Yes, gankblades are a thing in PvP, but they always use Two Handed. When an entire skill line is obsolete there is something wrong.

Shadow line skills are messed up too. Mass Hysteria is obsolete due to Turn Evil doing the job better, Twisting Path feels more like it should be in the Siphoning line and Shadow Barrier forces you to use a Shadow Skill every 6 seconds unless you have Heavy Armor whereas other classes can pop one skill to gain that buff for 20 seconds irrespective of what armor they are wearing. Siphoning Line feels the best thematically but it’s synergy is muddled.

I’m not making a case that the skills in of themselves are badly designed, that’s not it. It’s more like they are all over the place on their function and in a lot of cases obsolete when compared to other skills.