Nazaray shadow nerf?
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CyberOnEso✭✭✭✭✭
✭For those unaware, the language files were updated to change Nazaray's set description from
7.3.0When you use an Ultimate ability, the closest 6 enemies within 12 meters have all Damage Over Time, Major Debuffs, and Minor Debuffs applied to them extended by |cffffff1|r second per |cffffff25|r Ultimate spent.\n\nThis effect will not apply to Damage Beams or Damage Tethers. This effect can occur once every <<1>> per target.
To 7.3.1When you use an Ultimate ability, the closest 6 enemies within 12 meters have all Major Debuffs and Minor Debuffs applied to them extended by |cffffff1|r second per |cffffff20|r Ultimate spent. This effect can occur once every <<1>> per target.@CyberOnEso PC | EU - Jack of all Trades - Armory Style Manager Planesbreaker | Godslayer | Dawnbringer | Immortal Redeemer | Tick Tock Tormentor | Gryphon Heart5 -
Fennwitty✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭CyberOnEso wrote: »For those unaware, the language files were updated to change Nazaray's set description from
7.3.0
To 7.3.1
So we now basically have to run a diff on the files rather than take the patch notes as written ><;PC NA5 -
ESO_Nightingale✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭can you check nunatak since that could have changed as well.PvE Frost Warden Main and teacher. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX0 -
ARAL_TFORCSoul ShrivenCyberOnEso wrote: »For those unaware, the language files were updated to change Nazaray's set description from
7.3.0
To 7.3.1
as I expect for the nerf, but why don't they just put it in the patch note
still a strong set tho2 -
CyberOnEso✭✭✭✭✭
✭ESO_Nightingale wrote: »can you check nunatak since that could have changed as well.
Hey'a, sure thing! Nunatek changed from
ToOn dealing Frost Damage, create a frozen area under the target for <<1>>. Enemies in the area take <<2>> and gain a stack of <<3>>, which applies a <<4>> snare for <<5>>. On gaining 4 stacks, the enemy is immobilized and gains <<6>> for <<7>>, causing the target to take <<8>> increased Critical Damage. This effect can occur once every <<9>> and scales off the higher of your Weapon or Spell Damage.On dealing Frost Damage, create a <<1>> meter area under the target for <<2>>, dealing <<3>> to enemies every <<4>> <<5>>, which is a <<6>> snare for <<7>>. On gaining 4 stacks, the enemy is immobilized and gains <<8>> for <<9>>, causing the target to take <<10>> increased Critical Damage. This effect can occur once every <<11>> and scales off the higher of your Weapon or Spell Damage.
For those unaware the <<1>> text just means a bit of text will be inserted into this space, the numbers themselves do not mean anything.Edited by CyberOnEso on February 7, 2022 11:06PM@CyberOnEso PC | EU - Jack of all Trades - Armory Style Manager Planesbreaker | Godslayer | Dawnbringer | Immortal Redeemer | Tick Tock Tormentor | Gryphon Heart2 -
ESO_Nightingale✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭CyberOnEso wrote: »
Hey'a, sure thing! Nunatek changed from To
For those unaware the <<1>> text just means a bit of text will be inserted into this space, the numbers themselves do not mean anything.
interesting. i wonder if they changed durations and stuff. thanks!PvE Frost Warden Main and teacher. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX0 -
Fennwitty✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭CyberOnEso wrote: »
Hey'a, sure thing! Nunatek changed from To
For those unaware the <<1>> text just means a bit of text will be inserted into this space, the numbers themselves do not mean anything.
Damn that's a lot of variables for one gear set bonus.PC NA0 -
Carbohydrate✭✭✭I'm sorry but this post wasn't intended for an RP frost set that won't see the light of day outside of coordinated social guild delve groups.Edited by Carbohydrate on February 7, 2022 11:54PM2 -
ESO_Nightingale✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Carbohydrate wrote: »I'm sorry but this post wasn't intended for an RP frost set that won't see the light of day outside of coordinated social guild delve groups.
lol i don't even think rpers will use it.PvE Frost Warden Main and teacher. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX4 -
Fennwitty✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Carbohydrate wrote: »I'm sorry but this post wasn't intended for an RP frost set that won't see the light of day outside of coordinated social guild delve groups.
Looks like that's the current direction though.
Increasing the debuffs on trash = pointless since they're dead in seconds.
Increasing the debuffs on bosses = very very very limited outside of hard to source buffs like (I assume) Major Brittle.
Otherwise the majority of debuffs are reapplied consistently during rotations.Edited by Fennwitty on February 8, 2022 12:19AMPC NA1 -
Carbohydrate✭✭✭ESO_Nightingale wrote: »
lol i don't even think rpers will use it.
Unfortunately that seems to be the case with most elemental focused sets, unless they are flame/burning focused0 -
ESO_Nightingale✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Carbohydrate wrote: »
Unfortunately that seems to be the case with most elemental focused sets, unless they are flame/burning focused
we worked so hard to get frostbite buffed, so yeah i can definitely agree. frostbite is now only held back by the lack of decent frost damage skills.PvE Frost Warden Main and teacher. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX0 -
Treeshka✭✭✭✭✭
✭This set is still overpowered and will widen the damage gab between well organized groups and non organized groups.0 -
divnyi✭✭✭✭✭
✭So how can this be abused now? Major vulnerability? What else is interesting in major/minor debuffs?3 -
Carbohydrate✭✭✭So how can this be abused now? Major vulnerability? What else is interesting in major/minor debuffs?
Mostly yes. Tank with turning tide blocks and then bashes for 10 seconds of major vuln. 500 ult nazaray is then used just before the major vuln expires to add another 25 seconds. At the end of that duration the tank will again proc turning tide for another 10 seconds.
So 45 seconds of major vuln with no necromancer heh
Above is just an example, but this combo could go further/be chained with another nazaray ult on a 2nd support.
Turning tide + nazaray negates the need for necromancer dps. But these changes are about retaining class identity, right?Edited by Carbohydrate on February 8, 2022 1:52PM2 -
Excelsus✭✭✭✭So how can this be abused now? Major vulnerability? What else is interesting in major/minor debuffs?
Major Maim, while not relevent to the top teams is valuable and with limited uptime. Being able to sustain it easily would take some stress off for high damage phases especially these recent hm dungeons.0 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Nazaray set - ZOS official comment:Spoiler“This set was originally intended to make Damage over Time effects and potent debuffs easier to manage and allow for focus on different actions (like being able to actually spam your "spammable"), but was inevitably delivered in a way that only high end groups would be able to use. We've decided to shift the focus to the negative version of Jorvuld's Guidance where we have a much more reigned in sense of balance with Major and Minor debuffs, and will investigate alternative means to achieving our original goal.”
Alright so there are issues with this statement.....
1. Why is the goal to have us spam our spammable 10-20x times in a row? I do not recall any players asking for this.
2. I disagree that “only high end groups would be able to use” this set. Any group leader can tell their Damage Dealers to cast every DoT effect on their bar while vocalizing a 5 second countdown until Nazaray proc.
3. You plan to investigate alternative means to.... create an equally powerful gear set with potentially easier proc conditions?
Players want interesting gameplay.
Powerful sets are fun.
Unique methods of dealing damage are fun.
Whatever you do, please do not introduce any single set which will increase group DPS so drastically like pre-nerf Nazaray.2 -
jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Nazaray set - ZOS official comment:Spoiler“This set was originally intended to make Damage over Time effects and potent debuffs easier to manage and allow for focus on different actions (like being able to actually spam your "spammable"), but was inevitably delivered in a way that only high end groups would be able to use. We've decided to shift the focus to the negative version of Jorvuld's Guidance where we have a much more reigned in sense of balance with Major and Minor debuffs, and will investigate alternative means to achieving our original goal.”
Alright so there are issues with this statement.....
1. Why is the goal to have us spam our spammable 10-20x times in a row? I do not recall any players asking for this.
2. I disagree that “only high end groups would be able to use” this set. Any group leader can tell their Damage Dealers to cast every DoT effect on their bar while vocalizing a 5 second countdown until Nazaray proc.
3. You plan to investigate alternative means to.... create an equally powerful gear set with potentially easier proc conditions?
Players want interesting gameplay.
Powerful sets are fun.
Unique methods of dealing damage are fun.
Whatever you do, please do not introduce any single set which will increase group DPS so drastically like pre-nerf Nazaray.
Their goal is, and has been very clear, with the way they are attempting to change how rotations work. They are drastically trying to raise the floor from a DPS standpoint by minimizing the effort needed to do baseline damage, while also minimizing the ceiling increase for top end players.
Nazaray clearly missed the mark from the top end stand point, but even after the nerf, it effectively will raise the floor for lower end group comps if used properly.
I don't think their goal is to create another gear set to make dot procs last longer. More likely they will try to balance out durations of dots to make rotations a bit more forgiving for less skilled players.Edited by jaws343 on February 8, 2022 7:29PM2 -
ESO_Nightingale✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
Their goal is, and has been very clear, with the way they are attempting to change how rotations work. They are drastically trying to raise the floor from a DPS standpoint by minimizing the effort needed to do baseline damage, while also minimizing the ceiling increase for top end players.
Nazaray clearly missed the mark from the top end stand point, but even after the nerf, it effectively will raise the floor for lower end group comps if used properly.
I don't think their goal is to create another gear set to make dot procs last longer. More likely they will try to balance out durations of dots to make rotations a bit more forgiving for less skilled players.
This seems about right. I think you've nailed their plans.PvE Frost Warden Main and teacher. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX0 -
Faulgor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Their goal is, and has been very clear, with the way they are attempting to change how rotations work. They are drastically trying to raise the floor from a DPS standpoint by minimizing the effort needed to do baseline damage, while also minimizing the ceiling increase for top end players.
Nazaray clearly missed the mark from the top end stand point, but even after the nerf, it effectively will raise the floor for lower end group comps if used properly.
I don't think their goal is to create another gear set to make dot procs last longer. More likely they will try to balance out durations of dots to make rotations a bit more forgiving for less skilled players.
I mean, isn't that just Elf Bane, but less restrictive? As long as only the caster benefits I don't see much of an issue, it effectively becomes a sustain set because you have to recast your most costly skills less often - outside of ramping skills like Venomous Claw, of course.Alandrol Sul: He's making another Numidium?!?
Vivec: Worse, buddy. They're buying it.0 -
Mayrael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Awesome and very welcomed change!Say no to Toxic Casuals!
I am doing my best, but I am not a native speaker, sorry.
"Difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 9 years. 6 paid expansions. 24 DLCs. 40 game changing updates including A Realm Reborn-tier overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver&Gold as a "you think you do but you don't"-tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game." - @AlexanderDeLarge0 -
Carbohydrate✭✭✭
Their goal is, and has been very clear, with the way they are attempting to change how rotations work. They are drastically trying to raise the floor from a DPS standpoint by minimizing the effort needed to do baseline damage, while also minimizing the ceiling increase for top end players.
Nazaray clearly missed the mark from the top end stand point, but even after the nerf, it effectively will raise the floor for lower end group comps if used properly.
I don't think their goal is to create another gear set to make dot procs last longer. More likely they will try to balance out durations of dots to make rotations a bit more forgiving for less skilled players.
Very doubtful that this set will raise the floor. Most pug groups don't look at ulti lists or even call ultimates.
The floor will look something like this:
- Tank counts down for pull (maybe)
- Healer casts aggressive warhorn (hopefully not overlapping with other supports that are inevitably not looking at the ultimate list)
- The Nazaray cast will effectively do nothing since no debuffs are on target yet
vs the "ceiling" (or what crumbling parts are left of it) look something like this:
- Tank counts down pull
- Support without nazaray casts aggressive warhorn for 10 seconds of force
- Tank blocks an attack with turning tide and bashes to proc major vuln for 10 seconds
- Another support casts 500 ultimate nazaray horn just before vuln expires to keep major force going and extend the major vuln another 25 seconds
- Tank turning tide proc comes off cd and tank procs again after the nazaray extension finishes
All of the above is done without the staple necromancer class that has provided major vulnerability since its introduction. New trial records will be broken from a tank block and bash set, along with a monster set that makes optimization more of a hassle (raising the ceiling and keeping the floor where it's at).
Edited by Carbohydrate on February 9, 2022 1:33PM1 -
jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Carbohydrate wrote: »
Very doubtful that this set will raise the floor. Most pug groups don't look at ulti lists or even call ultimates.
The floor will look something like this:
- Tank counts down for pull (maybe)
- Healer casts aggressive warhorn (hopefully not overlapping with other supports that are inevitably not looking at the ultimate list)
- The Nazaray cast will effectively do nothing since no debuffs are on target yet
vs the "ceiling" (or what crumbling parts are left of it) look something like this:
- Tank counts down pull
- Support without nazaray casts aggressive warhorn for 10 seconds of force
- Tank blocks an attack with turning tide and bashes to proc major vuln for 10 seconds
- Another support casts 500 ultimate nazaray horn just before vuln expires to keep major force going and extend the major vuln another 25 seconds
- Tank turning tide proc comes off cd and tank procs again after the nazaray extension finishes
All of the above is done without the staple necromancer class that has provided major vulnerability since its introduction. New trial records will be broken from a tank block and bash set, along with a monster set that makes optimization more of a hassle (raising the ceiling and keeping the floor where it's at).
I wouldn't necessarily call Pugs the floor they are trying to assist here. The floor is more aimed at beginner, organized groups. Players who are just starting out in progression runs or trial attempts and aren't yet completely up to speed with the group comp or the trial mechanics. It provides them with additional opportunity to improve their skill, instead of washing out of the content before they have had a chance to get better.0 -
Carbohydrate✭✭✭
I wouldn't necessarily call Pugs the floor they are trying to assist here. The floor is more aimed at beginner, organized groups. Players who are just starting out in progression runs or trial attempts and aren't yet completely up to speed with the group comp or the trial mechanics. It provides them with additional opportunity to improve their skill, instead of washing out of the content before they have had a chance to get better.
The vast majority of beginner groups I've participated in over the years share some of these issues. Specific sets may be worn to "maximize" group damage (minimal MK procs, missing z'en dots, etc), but the ulti organization from trash to boss fights is a big one that will continue to evade beginner groups with the added complexity of nazaray in the mix.
I understand their direction with the floor/ceiling, and while I agree with the idea, the execution is yet again poor.0
