You have until June to level your undaunted on your toons…

MoreTune

Spam your veteran daily pledges and get your trifectas on your alt characters now.

Going to take a whole lot longer with the new system.

Basically with the new chapter, you only will get undaunted rep with dailies and first time quest completion. (Which majority of people already probably completed the quest for the skill point anyway)

I see in the future a lot of people going to start buying the undaunted skill line on different toons 😂

jaws343

From the Patch Notes, it was said that they increased the Rep gain for completing quests and the dailies to make up for removing the achievement rep gain.

Does that count retroactively? May be worth checking out because it would almost have to for players who have already completed quests.

redlink1979

Update 33, which has the change to Undaunted skill line, goes live on March 14th 2022 so what you suggest has to be done until then.

The3sFinest

It says that they increased gains, and even added undaunted rep to quests in instanced dungeons.

colossalvoids

March*
Also is it confirmed people won't get rep retroactively and gains are low? Didn't saw any of that.

Saieden

We need numbers, which are annoyingly left out of the patch notes so someone has to do it manually.

Numbers:
Total Undaunted for level 9 (where skill unlocks stop)
Earned per quest complete
Earned per Normal Pledge
Earned per Veteran Pledge
Earned per HM pledge

We can then work out how many days it will take, minimum, to unlock all the skills.

Arunei

Can people test this on a new character template in the PTS? Check and see how much a character gets for daily Pledges and dungeon clears, and compare it to what you get on live now? I'd give it a shot but I don't have access to the PTS atm.

Araneae6537

Not June, but March 14th if you want the option of leveling Undaunted via achievements.
Also if you want more than one music box from the Bard’s College EVER as well as some other collectible quest, the deadline is looming. Time to hurry up and finish some quests I’d been taking my time with…

wolfie1.0.

jaws343 wrote: »

From the Patch Notes, it was said that they increased the Rep gain for completing quests and the dailies to make up for removing the achievement rep gain.

Does that count retroactively? May be worth checking out because it would almost have to for players who have already completed quests.

I doubt it. They didn't retroactively buff MA to perfected when they rolled that out. If it's not in the patch notes that it's retroactive then it's not happening.

redspecter23

As mentioned above, we need numbers to be able to say what the impact is. Immediately assuming it's a nerf is speculation. Once we see the numbers, it may end up being a buff overall. If you're going to start a thread stating this is a nerf, please let us know what you're basing that on. Did you test to see what the rewards are on pts now?

With that being said, it would have been MUCH more useful if ZOS simply stated the numbers in the patch notes so things like this don't even have to happen.

Mushroomancer

Araneae6537 wrote: »

Not June, but March 14th if you want the option of leveling Undaunted via achievements.
Also if you want more than one music box from the Bard’s College EVER as well as some other collectible quest, the deadline is looming. Time to hurry up and finish some quests I’d been taking my time with…

That music box is a reward from a quest, not from an achievement.

spartaxoxo

Mushroomancer wrote: »

Araneae6537 wrote: »

Not June, but March 14th if you want the option of leveling Undaunted via achievements.
Also if you want more than one music box from the Bard’s College EVER as well as some other collectible quest, the deadline is looming. Time to hurry up and finish some quests I’d been taking my time with…

That music box is a reward from a quest, not from an achievement.

It's both.

Dolgubon

Mushroomancer wrote: »

Araneae6537 wrote: »

Not June, but March 14th if you want the option of leveling Undaunted via achievements.
Also if you want more than one music box from the Bard’s College EVER as well as some other collectible quest, the deadline is looming. Time to hurry up and finish some quests I’d been taking my time with…

That music box is a reward from a quest, not from an achievement.

Tracking for the quest is done via achievement. As a result, on the PTS, once one character has completed it, you are unable to do the quest again

SammyKhajit

redspecter23 wrote: »

As mentioned above, we need numbers to be able to say what the impact is. Immediately assuming it's a nerf is speculation. Once we see the numbers, it may end up being a buff overall. If you're going to start a thread stating this is a nerf, please let us know what you're basing that on. Did you test to see what the rewards are on pts now?

With that being said, it would have been MUCH more useful if ZOS simply stated the numbers in the patch notes so things like this don't even have to happen.

@ZOS_Kevin can you please confirm?

ADarklore

OMG... the sky is falling. I don't know how many times I've seen overreactions to something posted on PTS... only to realize on Live that it's nothing like the paranoid community portrayed. Typically when something like this is implemented, it's either the same or easier than the previous system. Perhaps they might even add some Undaunted EXP scrolls at some point too; it'd be easier to do with the new system than the old.

BlueRaven

Dolgubon wrote: »

Mushroomancer wrote: »

Araneae6537 wrote: »

Not June, but March 14th if you want the option of leveling Undaunted via achievements.
Also if you want more than one music box from the Bard’s College EVER as well as some other collectible quest, the deadline is looming. Time to hurry up and finish some quests I’d been taking my time with…

That music box is a reward from a quest, not from an achievement.

Tracking for the quest is done via achievement. As a result, on the PTS, once one character has completed it, you are unable to do the quest again

I am hearing a lot of conflicting stories about this. Some are saying as you said, it will not be repeatable. Others are saying that on other characters, it is completed instantly.

Either way this feels like a major bug.

rauyran

BlueRaven wrote: »

Dolgubon wrote: »

Mushroomancer wrote: »

Araneae6537 wrote: »

Not June, but March 14th if you want the option of leveling Undaunted via achievements.
Also if you want more than one music box from the Bard’s College EVER as well as some other collectible quest, the deadline is looming. Time to hurry up and finish some quests I’d been taking my time with…

That music box is a reward from a quest, not from an achievement.

Tracking for the quest is done via achievement. As a result, on the PTS, once one character has completed it, you are unable to do the quest again

I am hearing a lot of conflicting stories about this. Some are saying as you said, it will not be repeatable. Others are saying that on other characters, it is completed instantly.

Either way this feels like a major bug.

Precursor is a quest reward and you can simply hand it in on multiple characters to get more precursors even if you have the achievement. The music box is tracked with the achievement so it becomes a one-time thing.

katanagirl1

Vet trifecta lol, like I could ever get that. No worries then.

PeacefulAnarchy

jaws343 wrote: »

From the Patch Notes, it was said that they increased the Rep gain for completing quests and the dailies to make up for removing the achievement rep gain.

Does that count retroactively? May be worth checking out because it would almost have to for players who have already completed quests.

Currently you get 10 reputation for the dungeon completion achievement, on PTS you get 10 rep for completing the quest. If you completed the quest you got the rep for completing the dungeon, so that part evens out.

katanagirl1 wrote: »

Vet trifecta lol, like I could ever get that. No worries then.

Yeah, the other achievements besides completion are either difficult or grindy, and if you're able to do them then you won't have much trouble cranking out a few dailies to compensate.

zaria

rauyran wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Dolgubon wrote: »

Mushroomancer wrote: »

Araneae6537 wrote: »

Not June, but March 14th if you want the option of leveling Undaunted via achievements.
Also if you want more than one music box from the Bard’s College EVER as well as some other collectible quest, the deadline is looming. Time to hurry up and finish some quests I’d been taking my time with…

That music box is a reward from a quest, not from an achievement.

Tracking for the quest is done via achievement. As a result, on the PTS, once one character has completed it, you are unable to do the quest again

I am hearing a lot of conflicting stories about this. Some are saying as you said, it will not be repeatable. Others are saying that on other characters, it is completed instantly.

Either way this feels like a major bug.

Precursor is a quest reward and you can simply hand it in on multiple characters to get more precursors even if you have the achievement. The music box is tracked with the achievement so it becomes a one-time thing.

This, its an difference between achievement furniture and furniture who is an quest reward like the precursors.
If you do the precursor quest 3 times you get 3 of them who you can put 3 in one house or say 2 in one and one in another.
You only get one achievement furniture and can only put one in a house but you can put one in as many as you want.

Now I'm not sure how ESO database work but I'm pretty sure its achievements is just an long list of stuff your done, so stuff like discover an location or doing an quest is stored here, then you get to milestones like completing an quest chain or picking up all the skyshards in an zone you get an achievement. Now the underlying list is obviously character based else you could only do one time things like quests once on a account.

You also has an list for stuff on your account like who costumes and pets you have, I suspect they are moving achievements here.

Mushroomancer

Dolgubon wrote: »

Mushroomancer wrote: »

Araneae6537 wrote: »

Not June, but March 14th if you want the option of leveling Undaunted via achievements.
Also if you want more than one music box from the Bard’s College EVER as well as some other collectible quest, the deadline is looming. Time to hurry up and finish some quests I’d been taking my time with…

That music box is a reward from a quest, not from an achievement.

Tracking for the quest is done via achievement. As a result, on the PTS, once one character has completed it, you are unable to do the quest again

That doesn't sound like it's working as intended. I don't quite remember what triggers you being able to do that quest, but I'm guessing it's the musical instruments collection in the bards' college (?). While yes, those are tracked through an achievement, it seems weird that you wouldn't be able to collect them on different characters and trigger the quest. Does the museum in Orsinium work the same way?

MasterSpatula

Not June, March.

They didn't even announce this godawful change with enough notice to get everything done we might want to get done before it goes live.

Brrrofski

I'm not on PTS so can't test this.

So we currently can get 50 undaunted per dungeon, right?

Vanquisher, conqueror, hard mode, speed, no death. All 10 each.

Now, we'll get 10 for the quest, but nothing for those achievements, if we've got them on any character? So we're down 40 per dungeon?

Have they buffed the xp from pledges to at least somewhat compensate?

Otherwise undaunted will take quite a while to get to 9.

NupidStoob

A few random normals to level skills and the char where you complete the quests for the skillpoints and a few days of pledges and you'll have it.

Hardly anything will change except maybe having to do pledges for a few days more depending on how much you go out of your way to do the dungeon quests. It might even be faster to grind now as you can run through normals for quests and before you always needed to get all the achievements in vet.

Mushroomancer

Brrrofski wrote: »

I'm not on PTS so can't test this.

So we currently can get 50 undaunted per dungeon, right?

Vanquisher, conqueror, hard mode, speed, no death. All 10 each.

Now, we'll get 10 for the quest, but nothing for those achievements, if we've got them on any character? So we're down 40 per dungeon?

Have they buffed the xp from pledges to at least somewhat compensate?

Otherwise undaunted will take quite a while to get to 9.

Looking at the patch notes, it does say that Undaunted quests will give more experience towards the skill-line level, we just don't know exactly how much that's gonna be. Also the patch notes mention that completing quests in instanced dungeons will award Undaunted experience. Not exactly sure what they mean by "instanced dungeons", but if it means delves and public dungeons, I guess that's a win for all the solo players out there, not to mention, another way to level an undeniably tedious skill-line; if it's only talking about group dungeons though, that's gonna be pretty bad, since with how much everyone spams RNDs, a big chunk of those quests will have been completed already for a bunch of people.

Larcomar

I'd wondered about this too. Usually I'll do dungeons as I level a character up for the skill point, then run a few vet pledges once they're sorted to get undaunted up.

My worry is that my current toon is going to have done all the stuff that will (with the new patch) give you undaunted before it comes in, and then find it's a long slow slog to finish it via borgul / pledges afterwards.

I'm not wild about the idea - I wanted to level him organically - but I'm just going to power level him to 50 over the next coupel of weeks and then run all the dungeons. At least then he'll be done.

etchedpixels

BlueRaven wrote: »

Dolgubon wrote: »

Mushroomancer wrote: »

Araneae6537 wrote: »

Not June, but March 14th if you want the option of leveling Undaunted via achievements.
Also if you want more than one music box from the Bard’s College EVER as well as some other collectible quest, the deadline is looming. Time to hurry up and finish some quests I’d been taking my time with…

That music box is a reward from a quest, not from an achievement.

Tracking for the quest is done via achievement. As a result, on the PTS, once one character has completed it, you are unable to do the quest again

I am hearing a lot of conflicting stories about this. Some are saying as you said, it will not be repeatable. Others are saying that on other characters, it is completed instantly.

Either way this feels like a major bug.

Remember this is the first PTS for update 33. Their bug reporting thread was asking people to call out these kind of problems. Some of it will no doubt get fixed in the next couple of updates to PTS. Whether they fix the rest of the achievement train wreck remains to be seen though.

Saieden

Brrrofski wrote: »

I'm not on PTS so can't test this.

Have they buffed the xp from pledges to at least somewhat compensate?

No, someone has reported you still get the same 5/10 Undaunted per pledge. I'm going to assume they just forgot to update it somewhere, though I haven't been able to confirm what the total Undaunted XP required is.

If they don't change any of the numbers, it takes 1300 Undaunted to get to level 9.

Some math.
Assuming a new character does one delve daily, is competent enough to complete any base hard-mode, and doesn't have anyone in their group locking them out of quests. I'm also assuming that DLC quests are only done as part of pledges, unless stated. Where base game quests are completed, I have factored in the DLC quests

Delve: 10 (150 per day possible)
N/Vet: 10
HM: 20
Quests: 10 each (240 base game, 240 DLC as of U33 )

0 quests before 45, HM base pledges, normal dlc:
1300 / 90 = 14 days, 40 remaining.

All base game quests before 45, doing daily dungeons:
(1300 - 240) / 70 = 15 days, 10 remaining.

Super vets doing DLC HMs, base quests done, no delves:
(1300 - 240) / 70 = 15 days + 10 remaining

For new players, having done all base quests by 45 (Normal pledges and 1 delve, no DLC):
(1300 - 240) / 30 = 35 days, 10 remaining.

For new players, having done all base quests by 45 (Normal pledges and 1 delve, + DLC):
(1300 - 240) / 50 = 21 days, 10 remaining.

Daily Delve Group Grind (15 player quest share), all base game quests completed, all HM pledges:
(1300 - 240) / 220 = 4 days, 180 remaining.

Fastest possible (Delve Share, Base quests all DLC quests done in one day on reaching 45, then starting all dailies:
(1300 - 480 - 60) / 210 = 3 Days, 130 remaining.

So I will give ZoS the benefit of the doubt and assume that the total requirement and/or XP reward will change, but until I see otherwise, I will also assume that the relative values will remain the same, so if we either double the gain or half the total, it's the same amount of time and effort. From the numbers above, I think this is completely unreasonable as is, and even the amount of XP gained was double or tripled, it would still take longer in real-time for the vast majority of players. I think it would need to be somewhere around 5-10x faster to even compare to getting no-death, speedrun, HM, conqueror, vanquisher, and all the other little ones you pick up along the way (even in pugs).

zaria

Mushroomancer wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

I'm not on PTS so can't test this.

So we currently can get 50 undaunted per dungeon, right?

Vanquisher, conqueror, hard mode, speed, no death. All 10 each.

Now, we'll get 10 for the quest, but nothing for those achievements, if we've got them on any character? So we're down 40 per dungeon?

Have they buffed the xp from pledges to at least somewhat compensate?

Otherwise undaunted will take quite a while to get to 9.

Looking at the patch notes, it does say that Undaunted quests will give more experience towards the skill-line level, we just don't know exactly how much that's gonna be. Also the patch notes mention that completing quests in instanced dungeons will award Undaunted experience. Not exactly sure what they mean by "instanced dungeons", but if it means delves and public dungeons, I guess that's a win for all the solo players out there, not to mention, another way to level an undeniably tedious skill-line; if it's only talking about group dungeons though, that's gonna be pretty bad, since with how much everyone spams RNDs, a big chunk of those quests will have been completed already for a bunch of people.

Instanced dungeons are all but public dungeons and delves who are shared.
Now it will be the group dungeon quest who give a skillpoint, but I assume the repeatable / daily quests in arenas and trials give undaunted xp to. I assume they also buff the undaunted pledge undaunted xp.

I expect this to be pretty much the same if you go to the dungeons then they are undaunted pledges every day getting getting your xp by quest on HM and the extra achievements you pick up, it will be slower if you burn trough them with friends to max out undaunted on a day.

Mushroomancer

zaria wrote: »

Mushroomancer wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

I'm not on PTS so can't test this.

So we currently can get 50 undaunted per dungeon, right?

Vanquisher, conqueror, hard mode, speed, no death. All 10 each.

Now, we'll get 10 for the quest, but nothing for those achievements, if we've got them on any character? So we're down 40 per dungeon?

Have they buffed the xp from pledges to at least somewhat compensate?

Otherwise undaunted will take quite a while to get to 9.

Looking at the patch notes, it does say that Undaunted quests will give more experience towards the skill-line level, we just don't know exactly how much that's gonna be. Also the patch notes mention that completing quests in instanced dungeons will award Undaunted experience. Not exactly sure what they mean by "instanced dungeons", but if it means delves and public dungeons, I guess that's a win for all the solo players out there, not to mention, another way to level an undeniably tedious skill-line; if it's only talking about group dungeons though, that's gonna be pretty bad, since with how much everyone spams RNDs, a big chunk of those quests will have been completed already for a bunch of people.

Instanced dungeons are all but public dungeons and delves who are shared.
Now it will be the group dungeon quest who give a skillpoint, but I assume the repeatable / daily quests in arenas and trials give undaunted xp to.

Oh well, that kinda sucks. Sure getting Undaunted xp from trials is nice, but I have done most of the group dungeons quests on most of my characters through RNDs, and a bunch of them still need Undaunted levels. I would hope they'd give us the Undaunted xp for those quests retroactively, but we all know that's not gonna happen.

In the meantime, though, could we get an official response on the numbers we can expect from Undaunted dailies, and from instanced dungeons quests, and which quests are included under that label? @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_Kevin

Saieden

zaria wrote: »

Instanced dungeons are all but public dungeons and delves who are shared.
Now it will be the group dungeon quest who give a skillpoint, but I assume the repeatable / daily quests in arenas and trials give undaunted xp to. I assume they also buff the undaunted pledge undaunted xp.

I expect this to be pretty much the same if you go to the dungeons then they are undaunted pledges every day getting getting your xp by quest on HM and the extra achievements you pick up, it will be slower if you burn trough them with friends to max out undaunted on a day.

From the notes:
"As part of Account-Wide Achievements, we've rebalanced how the Undaunted skill line advances. You'll now obtain Undaunted reputation when completing the quests found in instanced dungeons, and increased the amount of reputation you gain for completing Undaunted dailies. We have also removed Undaunted guild progression from Undaunted achievements."

I'm pretty sure Arenas only you give Undaunted for their Achievements and not quests, though I may be wrong.