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Breton Lore in 2022 - Hopes and Expectations
Sylas_Orin
✭✭✭✭✭
Pinging @ZOS_GinaBruno, @ZOS_Kevin, @ZOS_RichLambert and @ZOS_LeamonTuttle in the hopes that they might see this thread and pass it on!
INTRODUCTION:
With the upcoming chapter, me and my Breton-loving friends are hyped! This year presents an opportunity for Zenimax to not just do a deep dive into the Bretons’ lore, but to properly flesh it out and give it a unique identity that stands out from the typical generic medieval fantasy.
One of the most common complaints about Bretons is that they are bland and generic, and though my friends and I sometimes gripe about this reputation, we are hoping that the planned deep dive will do the Bretons justice, even with the focus on their feudal aspects.
These are the hopes and expectations of four avid Breton nerds for what we will see explored and expanded on this year. While we understand that storylines are often set in stone, we hope ZOS’ writing team will take a moment to read this thread and consider sneaking in some of what is noted, if it is not already planned. A special thanks to @Aliyavana, @frozen290 and @Varus92 (the latter two in-game) for giving their input on this post!
THE RIGHTS CHARTER:
High Rock has a Rights Charter, and it would be awesome to see it added as a lorebook to learn what rights it grants its citizens. It would be fantastic if it was inspired by the Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the Citizen from the French Revolution or Magna Carta from the Middle Ages, as this would reflect the Bretons’ reputation as creative and intelligent thinkers.
BRETON CULTURE:
The Bretons' tavern songs, Emeric’s autobiography and the Covenant’s propaganda strongly imply that the Bretons value freedom, and according to Daedric myth, Darius Shano mocked commoners, nobility, the gods, clergymen and even royalty with impunity, only being executed once he ridiculed Tiber Septim. That Darius could freely criticize so many people might imply the Bretons value freedom of expression, and it would be great to have this stated outright.
Because the Bretons are described as thinkers, it would also be cool to see dialectic, philosophy and rhetoric be common Breton pastimes. Not to mention showing the Bretons’ questing culture and focus on upward mobility! Diversifying High Rock’s regions with lorebooks on different Breton subcultures as in Glenumbra would also be welcomed, as would adding NPCs reflecting these subcultures. It would also be cool to learn how the Bretons try to justify scheming as honorable.
For the Bretons’ Medieval vibes, it would be interesting to see some focus on the conflicts that could arise from having a Rights Charter in a feudal society. It would also be good to diversify the Bretons’ various knightly orders with distinct flairs, like with the spell knights and merchant knights. It would be awesome to see new flairs like “painter knights,” and for them all to have different traditions and codes of chivalry.
In ESO’s pre-release material, Bretons were described as flamboyant, intelligent, inventive and passionate, and Breton children were noted to play with spells in the streets. As a race of naturally talented spellcasters, we think the Bretons should flaunt their abilities more by having magic take a more prominent role in their society. Having the Bretons engineer revolutionary items such as refrigerators using cold flame and making them commonplace would absolutely suit their pre-release description!
EXPANDING ON WYRD LORE:
The Beldama and Glenmoril Wyrd Covens are witches with a mostly Breton population and an aversion to city people, but we know little about their history and what customs make them different from Reachmen. Perhaps they could be connected to the Druids of Galen mentioned in TES1, as Bretons who preserved their Nedic traditions?
BRETON-DIRENNI RELATIONS:
Phrastus and Cinnabar claim the Bretons vilified or resisted Clan Direnni after the rout of the Alessians in the First Era, but this seems misleading, since the Bretons of Glenumbra celebrate the Direnni with the Day of Release and the song of the Battle of Glenumbria Moors, which explicitly says they fought the Alessians in Direnni’s name. Gabrielle claims the Direnni fled High Rock in the First Era, but the Covenant’s propaganda says they have accepted and live with the Direnni in peace in the Second Era. High King Emeric called Direnni rule oppressive, but a notable amount of Bretons emphasize their Elven heritage. The only Bretons known to have targeted Clan Direnni are the vampiric House Spenard and their vassals, but they were despots that starved their own population. Contrary to Phrastus’ and Cinnabar’s claims that the Bretons tell stories about resisting Direnni rule, only northern Bangkorai has one story like that.
Cross-referencing the lore suggests that the Bretons were divided on whether to support the Direnni, with some remaining loyal and others converting to Alessianism. It would be amazing to get lorebooks that say just how widespread the attempts to usurp the Direnni were, and whether they were made by those who sided with the Alessian Order as a last-ditch effort to overthrow the Elves while they were scattered and exhausted after routing them.
It would also be interesting to see support of the Direnni and Mer be a point of contention between the modern-day Bretons, with Glenumbra and perhaps Stormhaven favoring them, and Rivenspire and northern Bangkorai opposing them. If some Bretons had an attitude that “things were better under the Direnni Hegemony,” then that would be a neat way of giving them some extra Renaissance flair.
DIRENNI PRESENCE IN HIGH ROCK:
Expanding on the point above, since the Covenant says they have accepted the Direnni, it would be good to see this actually be represented with a few explicit Direnni NPCs placed around in High Rock, either with a Direnni name or with dialogue declaring them a member of the clan. Though less likely to happen, it would also be good to see some of the Ayleid ruins in High Rock replaced by Direnni ones in the Alinor style found in the Direnni Acropolis, as both the Direnni and the Ayleids have had a presence there.
The Western Reach is also said to have been fashioned into an impregnable bastion by Clan Direnni. It would be nice to see them still have holdings there as part of a Q4 DLC.
BRETON CULTS AND CREATION MYTHS:
Sheor/Lorkhan is considered the Bad Man in Bretonic religion, but the Antiquities in Glenumbra imply that Lorkhan was initially considered a part of the Nedic pantheon in High Rock. It would be nice to explore just how Lorkhan became demonized by them, and since Sheor is said to have been born during the dark years after the fall of Sarthaal, perhaps it could be linked to King Vrage’s invasion of High Rock in the third century of the First Era? It would be nice to see exploration ofthe Bretons’ Elven cults and obscure gods, and for them to perhaps rival the Eight in popularity.
It would also be interesting to expand on the Bretons’ creation myth of the Light and the Dark, as it implies that the Bretons might have a more critical and rationalistic interpretation of how the Aurbis, Daedra and Divines came to be.
FAMOUS BRETONS:
It would be cool to see more lore on famous Bretons such as the immortal Sage, Gyron Vardengroet, the merchant-explorer, Captain Margaux, the renowned Breton holy knight Eleidon, and the founder of the Silver Dawn, Adeliza Silver-Axe.
BRETON CUISINE:
Some of the greatest cooks in Tamriel have been Bretons, and it would be great to see this reflected in their cuisine. Food like chocolate, butter, croissants, eggs, quiche, baguettes, omelets, potage le magnifique, pancakes, pizza (thanks to ESO-RP for suggesting that one), fries, french toast, onion soup, tarts, soufflé, mousse, wine, waffles, pudding, cookies and cakes would be lovely.
ITHGULEOIR:
Since the chapter is sea-based it is the perfect opportunity to explore the Bretons’ folklore on the legendary immortal leviathan, Ithguleoir.
HIGH ROCK FAUNA:
It would be nice to see the Centaurs and Dragonlings from TES2 be brought back, and if Q4 is in the Western Reach, it would be cool to see the Rays from Shadowkey return.
A LOREMASTER Q&A ABOUT BRETONS:
If what was suggested here cannot be included, or just to add frosting on the cake if it is, it would be awesome to get a Loremaster Q&A to get a chance to ask about the Bretons and their lore!
CONCLUSION:
These are just some of the things the four of us want to see in the upcoming content. Of course we have our individual preferences for what we want to see the most, but our hope and expectation is that the writers will flesh out and do the Bretons’ lore justice.
If you folks have your own hopes and wishes for the upcoming lore content, please post them! What kind of Breton-related lore and stories are you hoping to see this year?
Edited by Sylas_Orin on January 27, 2022 9:13PM INTRODUCTION:
With the upcoming chapter, me and my Breton-loving friends are hyped! This year presents an opportunity for Zenimax to not just do a deep dive into the Bretons’ lore, but to properly flesh it out and give it a unique identity that stands out from the typical generic medieval fantasy.
One of the most common complaints about Bretons is that they are bland and generic, and though my friends and I sometimes gripe about this reputation, we are hoping that the planned deep dive will do the Bretons justice, even with the focus on their feudal aspects.
These are the hopes and expectations of four avid Breton nerds for what we will see explored and expanded on this year. While we understand that storylines are often set in stone, we hope ZOS’ writing team will take a moment to read this thread and consider sneaking in some of what is noted, if it is not already planned. A special thanks to @Aliyavana, @frozen290 and @Varus92 (the latter two in-game) for giving their input on this post!
THE RIGHTS CHARTER:
High Rock has a Rights Charter, and it would be awesome to see it added as a lorebook to learn what rights it grants its citizens. It would be fantastic if it was inspired by the Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the Citizen from the French Revolution or Magna Carta from the Middle Ages, as this would reflect the Bretons’ reputation as creative and intelligent thinkers.
BRETON CULTURE:
The Bretons' tavern songs, Emeric’s autobiography and the Covenant’s propaganda strongly imply that the Bretons value freedom, and according to Daedric myth, Darius Shano mocked commoners, nobility, the gods, clergymen and even royalty with impunity, only being executed once he ridiculed Tiber Septim. That Darius could freely criticize so many people might imply the Bretons value freedom of expression, and it would be great to have this stated outright.
Because the Bretons are described as thinkers, it would also be cool to see dialectic, philosophy and rhetoric be common Breton pastimes. Not to mention showing the Bretons’ questing culture and focus on upward mobility! Diversifying High Rock’s regions with lorebooks on different Breton subcultures as in Glenumbra would also be welcomed, as would adding NPCs reflecting these subcultures. It would also be cool to learn how the Bretons try to justify scheming as honorable.
For the Bretons’ Medieval vibes, it would be interesting to see some focus on the conflicts that could arise from having a Rights Charter in a feudal society. It would also be good to diversify the Bretons’ various knightly orders with distinct flairs, like with the spell knights and merchant knights. It would be awesome to see new flairs like “painter knights,” and for them all to have different traditions and codes of chivalry.
In ESO’s pre-release material, Bretons were described as flamboyant, intelligent, inventive and passionate, and Breton children were noted to play with spells in the streets. As a race of naturally talented spellcasters, we think the Bretons should flaunt their abilities more by having magic take a more prominent role in their society. Having the Bretons engineer revolutionary items such as refrigerators using cold flame and making them commonplace would absolutely suit their pre-release description!
EXPANDING ON WYRD LORE:
The Beldama and Glenmoril Wyrd Covens are witches with a mostly Breton population and an aversion to city people, but we know little about their history and what customs make them different from Reachmen. Perhaps they could be connected to the Druids of Galen mentioned in TES1, as Bretons who preserved their Nedic traditions?
BRETON-DIRENNI RELATIONS:
Phrastus and Cinnabar claim the Bretons vilified or resisted Clan Direnni after the rout of the Alessians in the First Era, but this seems misleading, since the Bretons of Glenumbra celebrate the Direnni with the Day of Release and the song of the Battle of Glenumbria Moors, which explicitly says they fought the Alessians in Direnni’s name. Gabrielle claims the Direnni fled High Rock in the First Era, but the Covenant’s propaganda says they have accepted and live with the Direnni in peace in the Second Era. High King Emeric called Direnni rule oppressive, but a notable amount of Bretons emphasize their Elven heritage. The only Bretons known to have targeted Clan Direnni are the vampiric House Spenard and their vassals, but they were despots that starved their own population. Contrary to Phrastus’ and Cinnabar’s claims that the Bretons tell stories about resisting Direnni rule, only northern Bangkorai has one story like that.
Cross-referencing the lore suggests that the Bretons were divided on whether to support the Direnni, with some remaining loyal and others converting to Alessianism. It would be amazing to get lorebooks that say just how widespread the attempts to usurp the Direnni were, and whether they were made by those who sided with the Alessian Order as a last-ditch effort to overthrow the Elves while they were scattered and exhausted after routing them.
It would also be interesting to see support of the Direnni and Mer be a point of contention between the modern-day Bretons, with Glenumbra and perhaps Stormhaven favoring them, and Rivenspire and northern Bangkorai opposing them. If some Bretons had an attitude that “things were better under the Direnni Hegemony,” then that would be a neat way of giving them some extra Renaissance flair.
DIRENNI PRESENCE IN HIGH ROCK:
Expanding on the point above, since the Covenant says they have accepted the Direnni, it would be good to see this actually be represented with a few explicit Direnni NPCs placed around in High Rock, either with a Direnni name or with dialogue declaring them a member of the clan. Though less likely to happen, it would also be good to see some of the Ayleid ruins in High Rock replaced by Direnni ones in the Alinor style found in the Direnni Acropolis, as both the Direnni and the Ayleids have had a presence there.
The Western Reach is also said to have been fashioned into an impregnable bastion by Clan Direnni. It would be nice to see them still have holdings there as part of a Q4 DLC.
BRETON CULTS AND CREATION MYTHS:
Sheor/Lorkhan is considered the Bad Man in Bretonic religion, but the Antiquities in Glenumbra imply that Lorkhan was initially considered a part of the Nedic pantheon in High Rock. It would be nice to explore just how Lorkhan became demonized by them, and since Sheor is said to have been born during the dark years after the fall of Sarthaal, perhaps it could be linked to King Vrage’s invasion of High Rock in the third century of the First Era? It would be nice to see exploration ofthe Bretons’ Elven cults and obscure gods, and for them to perhaps rival the Eight in popularity.
It would also be interesting to expand on the Bretons’ creation myth of the Light and the Dark, as it implies that the Bretons might have a more critical and rationalistic interpretation of how the Aurbis, Daedra and Divines came to be.
FAMOUS BRETONS:
It would be cool to see more lore on famous Bretons such as the immortal Sage, Gyron Vardengroet, the merchant-explorer, Captain Margaux, the renowned Breton holy knight Eleidon, and the founder of the Silver Dawn, Adeliza Silver-Axe.
BRETON CUISINE:
Some of the greatest cooks in Tamriel have been Bretons, and it would be great to see this reflected in their cuisine. Food like chocolate, butter, croissants, eggs, quiche, baguettes, omelets, potage le magnifique, pancakes, pizza (thanks to ESO-RP for suggesting that one), fries, french toast, onion soup, tarts, soufflé, mousse, wine, waffles, pudding, cookies and cakes would be lovely.
ITHGULEOIR:
Since the chapter is sea-based it is the perfect opportunity to explore the Bretons’ folklore on the legendary immortal leviathan, Ithguleoir.
HIGH ROCK FAUNA:
It would be nice to see the Centaurs and Dragonlings from TES2 be brought back, and if Q4 is in the Western Reach, it would be cool to see the Rays from Shadowkey return.
A LOREMASTER Q&A ABOUT BRETONS:
If what was suggested here cannot be included, or just to add frosting on the cake if it is, it would be awesome to get a Loremaster Q&A to get a chance to ask about the Bretons and their lore!
CONCLUSION:
These are just some of the things the four of us want to see in the upcoming content. Of course we have our individual preferences for what we want to see the most, but our hope and expectation is that the writers will flesh out and do the Bretons’ lore justice.
If you folks have your own hopes and wishes for the upcoming lore content, please post them! What kind of Breton-related lore and stories are you hoping to see this year?
Former completionist with all achievements unlocked up until Update 29 (Flames of Ambition). Avid RPer, writer, and former Breton lover. Then Legacy of the Bretons was released and I realized just how boring and uninspired the Bretons are according to the writers.
39
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Aliyavana✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I am really excited to see Bretons get the love they deserve. I hope that ZOS dives deeply into their culture in both religion and political. I want to see the obscure gods like Raen and Nortorgo, and not the same old Eight Divines.
Give us the Druids of Galen please, the Breton origin who have not been mentioned since Arena.Edited by Aliyavana on January 27, 2022 11:54AM8 -
xgoku1✭✭✭✭✭I very much doubt any of these are going to be covered. Besides, work on the Chapter's writing etc. probably finished like a year ago, it's much too late to incorporate any of these as input.
Realistically they are going to probably do a posh medieval take on Breton culture (think jousting, tourneys etc.) and going to be highly limited by the "Year-long story" structure (so very superficially, except for the new books)2 -
RemanCyrodiil_I✭✭✭✭✭Nord and Imperial enthusiasts after Greymoor and Blackwood watching other people naively hope for good writing and cultural deep-dives for their favourite race's chapter:
Still, I hope that you Breton enthusiasts will get lucky.19 -
Sylas_Orin✭✭✭✭✭I very much doubt any of these are going to be covered. Besides, work on the Chapter's writing etc. probably finished like a year ago, it's much too late to incorporate any of these as input.
Realistically they are going to probably do a posh medieval take on Breton culture (think jousting, tourneys etc.) and going to be highly limited by the "Year-long story" structure (so very superficially, except for the new books)RemanCyrodiil_I wrote: »Nord and Imperial enthusiasts after Greymoor and Blackwood watching other people naively hope for good writing and cultural deep-dives for their favourite race's chapter:
Still, I hope that you Breton enthusiasts will get lucky.
Who knows! They did say they would do a deep dive into their culture, and sneaking in a couple of lorebooks isn't TOO much effort. But we'll see. For now, I'm hopeful that we might get something akin to Markarth for Reachmen or Murkmire for Argonians
Former completionist with all achievements unlocked up until Update 29 (Flames of Ambition). Avid RPer, writer, and former Breton lover. Then Legacy of the Bretons was released and I realized just how boring and uninspired the Bretons are according to the writers.1 -
Sylas_Orin✭✭✭✭✭I am really excited to see Bretons get the love they deserve. I hope that ZOS dives deeply into their culture in both religion and political. I want to see the obscure gods like Raen and Nortorgo, and not the same old Eight Divines.
Give us the Druids of Galen please, the Breton origin who have not been mentioned since Arena.
Honestly, I hope they make High Isle a bastion of High Rock traditionalism. IMO, mainland High Rock seems a little too Imperialized. But I do hope they touch on both mainlanders AND islanders.Former completionist with all achievements unlocked up until Update 29 (Flames of Ambition). Avid RPer, writer, and former Breton lover. Then Legacy of the Bretons was released and I realized just how boring and uninspired the Bretons are according to the writers.1 -
NotaDaedraWorshipper✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭RemanCyrodiil_I wrote: »Nord and Imperial enthusiasts after Greymoor and Blackwood watching other people naively hope for good writing and cultural deep-dives for their favourite race's chapter:
Still, I hope that you Breton enthusiasts will get lucky.
Yeah, still hoping we will at some point get an Imperial chapter. Not a chapter about Daedra again, with a little bit of imperial and argonian sprinkles on top.
I hope we get some much needed content for bretons, but I'm also not holding my expectations high.[Lie] Of course! I don't even worship Daedra!6 -
Sylas_Orin✭✭✭✭✭NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »RemanCyrodiil_I wrote: »Nord and Imperial enthusiasts after Greymoor and Blackwood watching other people naively hope for good writing and cultural deep-dives for their favourite race's chapter:
Still, I hope that you Breton enthusiasts will get lucky.
Yeah, still hoping we will at some point get an Imperial chapter. Not a chapter about Daedra again, with a little bit of imperial and argonian sprinkles on top.
I hope we get some much needed content for bretons, but I'm also not holding my expectations high.
The Colovian Highlands have yet to be covered, and Nibenay (plus the bits of Morrowind on that side) are also missing love, so I think you will get some Imperial content in the future!
Personally I'm rather hyped for this year, though. There didn't look to be much hope for Bretons (or Bosmer, even) with how the map was filled in from base game. ZOS might blunder it, they have blundered in the past, but they have also done a good job with a lot of their content (I loved Orsinium!). Since Bretons are written off as generic, me and my friends are hoping ZOS will seize the opportunity to make them better and improve on what little we got with base game.Edited by Sylas_Orin on January 27, 2022 2:18PMFormer completionist with all achievements unlocked up until Update 29 (Flames of Ambition). Avid RPer, writer, and former Breton lover. Then Legacy of the Bretons was released and I realized just how boring and uninspired the Bretons are according to the writers.1 -
Sylas_Orin✭✭✭✭✭RemanCyrodiil_I wrote: »BlissfulDelusions wrote: »Who knows! They did say they would do a deep dive into their culture, and sneaking in a couple of lorebooks isn't TOO much effort. But we'll see. For now, I'm hopeful that we might get something akin to Markarth for Reachmen or Murkmire for Argonians
For sure. Hopefully the Q4 DLC will also be Breton related (perhaps Jehanna?) as it seems that they tend to give better cultural deep-dives than the £30 chapter zones, which increasingly try to be too many things at once and end up having identity crises.
Personally I expect much of the lore with the High Isles chapter will relate to the All-Flags Navy (presumably it used the Systres as a victualling base?) and Breton relations with the Alessians. Anything more will be a nice bonus, but I am admittedly weary after Blackwood.
Oh, I bet the Alessian Order will be involved somehow! Did you see the letters the ESOFam got? They mentioned the "Ascendant Order," which if it links to the Alessian Order will most definitely involve some lore on the Alessian Empire. All-Flags Navy lore also seems likely, given the involvement of all three alliances!
P.S. And yep, fingers crossed for Jehanna/Western Reach!Edited by Sylas_Orin on January 27, 2022 2:25PMFormer completionist with all achievements unlocked up until Update 29 (Flames of Ambition). Avid RPer, writer, and former Breton lover. Then Legacy of the Bretons was released and I realized just how boring and uninspired the Bretons are according to the writers.1 -
NotaDaedraWorshipper✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭BlissfulDelusions wrote: »NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »RemanCyrodiil_I wrote: »Nord and Imperial enthusiasts after Greymoor and Blackwood watching other people naively hope for good writing and cultural deep-dives for their favourite race's chapter:
Still, I hope that you Breton enthusiasts will get lucky.
Yeah, still hoping we will at some point get an Imperial chapter. Not a chapter about Daedra again, with a little bit of imperial and argonian sprinkles on top.
I hope we get some much needed content for bretons, but I'm also not holding my expectations high.
The Colovian Highlands have yet to be covered, and Nibenay (plus the bits of Morrowind on that side) are also missing love, so I think you will get some Imperial content in the future!
Personally I'm rather hyped for this year, though. There didn't look to be much hope for Bretons (or Bosmer, even) with how the map was filled in from base game. ZOS might blunder it, they have blundered in the past, but they have also done a good job with a lot of their content (I loved Orsinium!). Since Bretons are written off as generic, me and my friends are hoping ZOS will seize the opportunity to make them better and improve on what little we got with base game.
That's what I'm hoping for. I wanted them to really show the Nibenese with Leyawiin, and also make Leyawiin actually make sense with a proper Niben River, but that was a dissapointment. So clinging to hope for a good chapter with the last bit of the Nibenay.
I do hope they don't make a blunder, but instead live up to previous good dlcs like Orsinium and Murkmire, but for the bretons.
It was a nice surprise see them manage to add some content for them.
Although, I'm a bit annoyed going by the pictures we have seen how similar High Rock and Leyawiin's buildings are. ZOS really need to do better with architectural styles.[Lie] Of course! I don't even worship Daedra!2 -
Sylas_Orin✭✭✭✭✭NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »BlissfulDelusions wrote: »NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »RemanCyrodiil_I wrote: »Nord and Imperial enthusiasts after Greymoor and Blackwood watching other people naively hope for good writing and cultural deep-dives for their favourite race's chapter:
Still, I hope that you Breton enthusiasts will get lucky.
Yeah, still hoping we will at some point get an Imperial chapter. Not a chapter about Daedra again, with a little bit of imperial and argonian sprinkles on top.
I hope we get some much needed content for bretons, but I'm also not holding my expectations high.
The Colovian Highlands have yet to be covered, and Nibenay (plus the bits of Morrowind on that side) are also missing love, so I think you will get some Imperial content in the future!
Personally I'm rather hyped for this year, though. There didn't look to be much hope for Bretons (or Bosmer, even) with how the map was filled in from base game. ZOS might blunder it, they have blundered in the past, but they have also done a good job with a lot of their content (I loved Orsinium!). Since Bretons are written off as generic, me and my friends are hoping ZOS will seize the opportunity to make them better and improve on what little we got with base game.
That's what I'm hoping for. I wanted them to really show the Nibenese with Leyawiin, and also make Leyawiin actually make sense with a proper Niben River, but that was a dissapointment. So clinging to hope for a good chapter with the last bit of the Nibenay.
I do hope they don't make a blunder, but instead live up to previous good dlcs like Orsinium and Murkmire, but for the bretons.
It was a nice surprise see them manage to add some content for them.
Although, I'm a bit annoyed going by the pictures we have seen how similar High Rock and Leyawiin's buildings are. ZOS really need to do better with architectural styles.
I feel like Blackwood did an okay job with Imperials, like adding the implications that the count/countess title is inherited, which I don't think has been mentioned previously. The Nibenese seafood cuisine was great, too! And I loved the lore on Zenithar.
But yeah, they could have done a better job. I feel like splitting the Gates of Oblivion three ways between Argonians, Daedra and Imperials kinda left both Argonians and Imperials feeling like they got too little. Going forward I'm hoping ZOS will focus more on each individual race.
I do like High Isle's architecture, though. It looks quite Mediterranean! Though I hate how Bretons and Imperials shared a lot of furniture/housing assets.Former completionist with all achievements unlocked up until Update 29 (Flames of Ambition). Avid RPer, writer, and former Breton lover. Then Legacy of the Bretons was released and I realized just how boring and uninspired the Bretons are according to the writers.1 -
NotaDaedraWorshipper✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭BlissfulDelusions wrote: »NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »BlissfulDelusions wrote: »NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »RemanCyrodiil_I wrote: »Nord and Imperial enthusiasts after Greymoor and Blackwood watching other people naively hope for good writing and cultural deep-dives for their favourite race's chapter:
Still, I hope that you Breton enthusiasts will get lucky.
Yeah, still hoping we will at some point get an Imperial chapter. Not a chapter about Daedra again, with a little bit of imperial and argonian sprinkles on top.
I hope we get some much needed content for bretons, but I'm also not holding my expectations high.
The Colovian Highlands have yet to be covered, and Nibenay (plus the bits of Morrowind on that side) are also missing love, so I think you will get some Imperial content in the future!
Personally I'm rather hyped for this year, though. There didn't look to be much hope for Bretons (or Bosmer, even) with how the map was filled in from base game. ZOS might blunder it, they have blundered in the past, but they have also done a good job with a lot of their content (I loved Orsinium!). Since Bretons are written off as generic, me and my friends are hoping ZOS will seize the opportunity to make them better and improve on what little we got with base game.
That's what I'm hoping for. I wanted them to really show the Nibenese with Leyawiin, and also make Leyawiin actually make sense with a proper Niben River, but that was a dissapointment. So clinging to hope for a good chapter with the last bit of the Nibenay.
I do hope they don't make a blunder, but instead live up to previous good dlcs like Orsinium and Murkmire, but for the bretons.
It was a nice surprise see them manage to add some content for them.
Although, I'm a bit annoyed going by the pictures we have seen how similar High Rock and Leyawiin's buildings are. ZOS really need to do better with architectural styles.
I feel like Blackwood did an okay job with Imperials, like adding the implications that the count/countess title is inherited, which I don't think has been mentioned previously. The Nibenese seafood cuisine was great, too! And I loved the lore on Zenithar.
But yeah, they could have done a better job. I feel like splitting the Gates of Oblivion three ways between Argonians, Daedra and Imperials kinda left both Argonians and Imperials feeling like they got too little. Going forward I'm hoping ZOS will focus more on each individual race.
I do like High Isle's architecture, though. It looks quite Mediterranean! Though I hate how Bretons and Imperials shared a lot of furniture/housing assets.
It doesn't even feel split three way. More half, or a bit more than half is daedra, then the rest is shared between argonians and imperials and other things.
And High Isle doesn't look Mediterranean to me, and definitely shouldn't be. It looks central European to me, which Leyawiin also look like, which is the one that should look more Mediterranean/Roman. They are looking way too similar, all generic European medieval fantasy. It's just base game stuff with a different paint job.[Lie] Of course! I don't even worship Daedra!2 -
Gaebriel0410✭✭✭✭✭Too excited for the reveal to sit down and time to type out my entire huge list of stuff I hope they get into, but it's very similar to the OP one! Besides having to fan myself after seeing the word chivalry mentioned twice already in the small spoiler snippet, I also hope they touch on some of their religion and the ye olde fey forest folklore stuff mentioned in earlier games, preferably in new books actually as some things should remain a little mysterious imo.
I always thought it appropriate for Imperial architecture to resemble the Breton styles, as it's mentioned in several lore texts that the Bretons of old heavily influenced the old Empire (can't recall which iteration) when they eventually joined. I remember one book even stating something like 'they did not merely join it, but made it their own'. Which kinda made sense to me, since they also assimilated a lot of aspects of the Direnni into their own culture.1 -
Sylas_Orin✭✭✭✭✭OP has been updated to reflect the reveal!Inari Telvanni wrote: »I support this at gunpoint.
shoots you regardless :fingerguns:Gaebriel0410 wrote: »Too excited for the reveal to sit down and time to type out my entire huge list of stuff I hope they get into, but it's very similar to the OP one! Besides having to fan myself after seeing the word chivalry mentioned twice already in the small spoiler snippet, I also hope they touch on some of their religion and the ye olde fey forest folklore stuff mentioned in earlier games, preferably in new books actually as some things should remain a little mysterious imo.
High Isle definitely seems to be the main focus, but absolutely, I'm hoping they'll add all the good Breton stuff that also pertains to the mainlanders
Edited by Sylas_Orin on January 27, 2022 9:48PMFormer completionist with all achievements unlocked up until Update 29 (Flames of Ambition). Avid RPer, writer, and former Breton lover. Then Legacy of the Bretons was released and I realized just how boring and uninspired the Bretons are according to the writers.0 -
ZOS_KevinCommunity ManagerHi All! We also have an official thread for feedback around High Isle if you have overall thoughts. You can check it out here.Community Manager for ZeniMax Online Studio and Elder Scrolls OnlineDev Tracker | Service Alerts | ESO Twitter1 -
Sylas_Orin✭✭✭✭✭Hi All! We also have an official thread for feedback around High Isle if you have overall thoughts. You can check it out here.
I will be sure to link back to this thread there! Former completionist with all achievements unlocked up until Update 29 (Flames of Ambition). Avid RPer, writer, and former Breton lover. Then Legacy of the Bretons was released and I realized just how boring and uninspired the Bretons are according to the writers.0 -
TX12001rwb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I wonder if we will see live-jousting between NPCs.
Also I smell another castle player home in the new High Isle castle style< i just hope we do not get treated as if we were "peasants" my character has the earned title of "Count" which means he would outrank even the Baron they mentioned in nobility.0 -
Sylas_Orin✭✭✭✭✭TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »I wonder if we will see live-jousting between NPCs.
Also I smell another castle player home in the new High Isle castle style< i just hope we do not get treated as if we were "peasants" my character has the earned title of "Count" which means he would outrank even the Baron they mentioned in nobility.
Live jousting would be awesome to watch. It looks to be included, at least based on the preview!
Maybe we'll even be able to bet on them, like the games in Reaper's March? That'd be so coolFormer completionist with all achievements unlocked up until Update 29 (Flames of Ambition). Avid RPer, writer, and former Breton lover. Then Legacy of the Bretons was released and I realized just how boring and uninspired the Bretons are according to the writers.0 -
ashep5000Soul ShrivenGreat post (OP) and couldn't agree more. Need much more Breton lore...the druid stuff is good, and more differences than just medieval feudal society. Even cuisine is good to learn more about, more take on the magic culture they have...but I'd also just be interested in hearing a confirmation on how long they live. I know the general thoughts are less than a human but at best that's a guess from the community...any confirmation from lore? Just more and unique Breton lore in general would be nice to have.1 -
Gaebriel0410✭✭✭✭✭TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »I wonder if we will see live-jousting between NPCs.
Also I smell another castle player home in the new High Isle castle style< i just hope we do not get treated as if we were "peasants" my character has the earned title of "Count" which means he would outrank even the Baron they mentioned in nobility.
That's actually not entirely true, as ranking within the Breton nobility differs from IRL history in a few ways. Breton feudal hierarchy depends not just on the title 'rank' e.g. baron, count, etc. but also on the size and importance (likely trade etc.) of their territories, as well as other alleged but unmentioned aspects, likely the respective power of the lord they are sworn to in turn is also taken into account.
According to some lorebooks feudal hierarchy in High Rock is notoriously complex to the point its nuances can be difficult to understand for those not raised in their society, which I always assumed was a bit of a residue from their time under the Direnni, and of course the altmer society by itself is also said to be ridiculously complex in regards to 'society rules', honour (like the whole calian and apraxis thing) and such. And Bretonsunder the Direnni likely nicked the feudal thing from them as that was what they were used to, and bastardized it over the years, or made it to suit them more.
(Also since I couldn't resist haha, technically you didn't earn the title in character, you just got it because you bought some big houses. :P)1 -
Wolfpaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭"According to legend, Bretons are descended from a group known as the Druids of Galen.[6] Druidism is part of the race's magical roots that is related to, but separate from their Elvish roots,[UOL 1] and it also ties to their early religion.[UOL 2] Though who they were is not clear, modern Bretons still swear by the "ArchDruid", a possible remnant of this heritage."
https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Breton#Origin
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Gaebriel0410✭✭✭✭✭"According to legend, Bretons are descended from a group known as the Druids of Galen.[6] Druidism is part of the race's magical roots that is related to, but separate from their Elvish roots,[UOL 1] and it also ties to their early religion.[UOL 2] Though who they were is not clear, modern Bretons still swear by the "ArchDruid", a possible remnant of this heritage."
https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Breton#Origin
They actually mentioned the Druids of Galen in a recent lore interview released right after the High Isle announcement, when they explained some of the pre-Direnni roots they were gonna explore with the new chapter! So I hope we'll get to see more of that!2 -
BretonMage✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Yes, please! Couldn't agree more. TES has always made a point of emphasising the Bretons' affinity for magic, but we see little of that in-game aside from our racial passives.BlissfulDelusions wrote: »In ESO’s pre-release material, Bretons were described as flamboyant, intelligent, inventive and passionate, and Breton children were noted to play with spells in the streets. As a race of naturally talented spellcasters, we think the Bretons should flaunt their abilities more by having magic take a more prominent role in their society. Having the Bretons engineer revolutionary items such as refrigerators using cold flame and making them commonplace would absolutely suit their pre-release description!
I know Potage Le Magnifique is part of lore, but I'm not entirely sure I want to see French cuisine directly referenced here. Breton culture should be more than just TES French or even TES medieval Europe. That said, I'd love to see some sophisticated dishes and desserts, with descriptions that accentuate their taste and aroma.BRETON CUISINE:
Some of the greatest cooks in Tamriel have been Bretons, and it would be great to see this reflected in their cuisine. Food like chocolate, butter, croissants, eggs, quiche, baguettes, omelets, potage le magnifique, pancakes, pizza (thanks to ESO-RP for suggesting that one), fries, french toast, onion soup, tarts, soufflé, mousse, wine, waffles, pudding, cookies and cakes would be lovely.0 -
gurluasb16_ESO✭✭✭✭My interest about Breton culture is extremely low, so I really hope Breton culture isn't the only thing explored.
Elsweyr in addition to Khajity lore also explored dragon lore as well as Akaviri lore and Imperial lore.
Greymoor in addition to Nord lore explored vampire lore, Dwemer lore, Sea giant lore, Reach lore, etc. (Not including the massive amount of lore coming from the excellent antiquity system)
Blackwood in addition to Argonian lore also explored Daedric lore and Imperial lore.
I cared little for Nord, Imperial or Argonian lore but every chapter so far had far more than just the lore of the main race.
If there is one thing I hope for Bretons, it's that we get to see more of the attributes from their Mer ancestry.
So far they honestly feel like generic Medieval humans and the reveal of High Isle did little to change that.
I wonder if High Isle was settled by a culture prior to the Bretons and if there's some interesting lore to find.
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Supreme_Atromancer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Its great to see so much passion for the Bretons. I, too, am excited to explore the Direnni angle, but I will say that I think there's room for more than just the dichotomous supported/unsupported. After all, it wasn't slavish commitment to how they were imagined in TES1 and 2 that made races like Nord and Dunmer as interesting and popular as they are today, but in the genius of taking of those things, and interpreting (without contradicting) what was written in a way that made them something actually new, interesting and engaging. I think that's what the Bretons have been waiting for.1 -
Supreme_Atromancer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I, too, am holding out hope that maybe one day they will go back and revisit how they have done ancient elves in ESO. It currently suffers a lot from "Early Series' Weirdness", poor understanding of the setting (at the time), and lack of resources forcing them to double duty on some stuff.
As a result, the Ayleid stuff is grossly overused in the game. Ayleid architecture mysterious, alien and spooky, just like the people that once called it home. One of the enduring appeals of TES worldbuilding is that the world tells the story, and Tamriel is the main character. In Skyrim, and even more so in Morrowind, the architecture told you a lot about that part of the world. Imperials have a foothold here, but you don't see them there. House Telvanni controls this part of Vvardenfell. Velothi ruins can be found in this part. There's something to explore, and something to learn about the world. Someone put real thought into it. When every ancient elf culture can just be represented by the same thing, it looses some of that exploration magic, narrative value the world has, and feel that there was genuine care in crafting it.
The lore states that the Ayleids fled Cyrodiil and when arriving in High Rock, were absorbed by the Direnni, not the other way round, which would lead to a far more boring, homogenised High Rock, robbing it of personality and unique story to tell. The same can be said of Auridon. The ancient Altmer weren't daedraphilic oppressors living in underground cities festooned with wrought-iron spiked cages. They're a distinct thing.
Ancient Altmer architecture exists now. We have a set that has been explicitly associated with the Direnni, as well as other ancestral altmer. I know its maybe wishful thinking, but as others have wished for mainland Morrowind since Vvardenfell introduced Great House architecture, I'd love it if they went back and changed some of the structures in High Rock and Auridon.Edited by Supreme_Atromancer on February 11, 2022 5:28AM1 -
Vrienda✭✭✭✭✭
✭Definitely want to see Bretons shoot up my favourite race list like Orcs and High Elves did for their DLC/Chapter. I love the Breton Aesthetic, particularly Rivenspire. Classic ESO didn't really explore the Direnni relationship enough.Desperate for Roleplaying servers to bring open world non-organised RP to Elder Scrolls Online. Please ZOS.1
