What is a good way to LEARN to tank?

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Bitter_Apple21 wrote: »

@Oreyn_Bearclaw Thanks. Think I will look at my getting some armor pieces with some Mag regen on them to use. As I cannot use Monster stuff now, I do have 2 slots that have nothing to do with the 5 pcs sets. Particularly at this point where, not part of a guild, and too early for Undaunted, I am pretty much solo wherever I go. Also, I think I will spend a few more skill points on the Mag and Stam attributes for the next 5-10 levels or so. I can always respec if needed.

I realize each event is different, but any guidance on a health "range" by the time I cross lvl 50, or more precisely to run dungeons. I can work backwards from there as I am setting up the character.

Appreciate the help.

@Bitter_Apple21
35-40k health is plenty for any four man content. Most can honestly be done with less.

The other thing I will say, I find it very difficult to suggest leveling as a tank, unless you really feel like you want to for immersion. A tank is a role that really only makes sense in group content. When solo, you are typically better off focusing on Damage, really when solo you do a little bit of all the roles, DPS, tank, and heals, but a DPS will make the easiest work of it.

My DK tank I leveled as a magic DPS, my Warden tank I leveled as a stamina DPS. Just be sure you have a piece or two of heavy armor equipped and a sword an board skill slotted on your main bar. That ensures both level up as you gain XP, but allow you to use more DPS oriented weapons and armor.

Lets say you level as a magic character, use a Destro staff, wear 3-4 pieces of light armor, 1-2 of heavy and the rest medium. That way all your armor lines are leveling (you may need to equip 5 of the same type to unlock the armor line in the first place, been a while). As long as you have a S+B skill on your main bar, that will level as well, even if using a fire staff or some other weapon. Just put the first S+B skill in your 5th slot, and once it hits morph, move on to the next one.

That way you can play the game a little easier, and by the time you get to max level, your Tanks skill lines are close to max level. The same trick works for Class skill lines as well. Sub level 50, try to have one skill from each of your 3 class lines on your front bar whenever possible, that way all 3 lines are earning XP.

Just a few leveling tips, of course, play how you enjoy, thats the most important part.

Bitter_Apple21

@Oreyn_Bearclaw. Thanks and bang on again. Just tanking solo in the overland seemed "boring". Made the decision only last week to "focus" on tanking, taunting, and those skills and other than the World Bosses to test on, I had not come across anything else. And in real time, sitting there blocking and smacking for 10-15 min did not seem particularly enjoyable. Actually put him aside this past weekend and went back to the CP800 Healer toon - different conversation piece. Might try this - tanks has enough health to keep alive, so go back to 2 handers or Bows (as the other two DD are magicka based) and run the leveling that way. A thought just hit me, I wonder how serious the Public Dungeon bosses are? At least there, there might be some other players where I can learn to actually "Tank".
Thanks again for the help and suggestions.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Bitter_Apple21 wrote: »

@Oreyn_Bearclaw. Thanks and bang on again. Just tanking solo in the overland seemed "boring". Made the decision only last week to "focus" on tanking, taunting, and those skills and other than the World Bosses to test on, I had not come across anything else. And in real time, sitting there blocking and smacking for 10-15 min did not seem particularly enjoyable. Actually put him aside this past weekend and went back to the CP800 Healer toon - different conversation piece. Might try this - tanks has enough health to keep alive, so go back to 2 handers or Bows (as the other two DD are magicka based) and run the leveling that way. A thought just hit me, I wonder how serious the Public Dungeon bosses are? At least there, there might be some other players where I can learn to actually "Tank".
Thanks again for the help and suggestions.

@Bitter_Apple21
Not very serious to be honest. I have 18 toons. The first 5 or so, I took my time. The last dozen or so, I pretty much power leveled. One of things I do in my power leveling is to fly through the public dungeons to do the group events for skill points. Never had an issue, even at low level with any of them solo. A good DPS can nuke a PD boss in 10 seconds or less. They are far easier than world bosses. A tank would just get in the way. LOL

Practicing a tank build on a world bosses is certainly reasonable advice, but you really arent going to be pushed in any meaningful way until you get into vet content. Yes, soloing certain world bosses in DLC zones can be a challenge, but Simply tanking them is typically not very taxing.

If you dont want to get into groupfinder to learn, I would suggest WBs in some of the DLC zones. A lot of them will have WB groups, and if not, grab a daily quest for one, and post in Zone. People will come.

Bitter_Apple21

@Oreyn_Bearclaw, thanks. I am curious to test something now. You have mentioned something that I have seen before but presumed would not work. As a level 30 toon, I thought that I could NOT access the dungeons thru "group finder" until after I get the Undaunted access at level 45 or something. I need to check if I can access the "group finder" and then join a PUG as a level 30 tank. I might have been assuming something that is simply wrong. Thanks again.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Bitter_Apple21 wrote: »

@Oreyn_Bearclaw, thanks. I am curious to test something now. You have mentioned something that I have seen before but presumed would not work. As a level 30 toon, I thought that I could NOT access the dungeons thru "group finder" until after I get the Undaunted access at level 45 or something. I need to check if I can access the "group finder" and then join a PUG as a level 30 tank. I might have been assuming something that is simply wrong. Thanks again.

@Bitter_Apple21
You can join Groupfinder at level 10, but the pool of dungeons you get is not very large. As you gain levels, more open up. You cannot access vet groupfinder as far as I know.

Bitter_Apple21

Thanks. I am actually trying it right now.

Bitter_Apple21

@Oreyn_Bearclaw Yup, just tried and the option existed. Wow, now the pressure. Do I want to try this as a level 30 first time Tank????
Might run Fungal 1 as my DD to refresh my memory.

Bitter_Apple21

@Oreyn_Bearclaw, okay going for it.

Bitter_Apple21

@Oreyn_Bearclaw okay, just ran fg1 and banished 1 twice each. Don't know if the dungeon scaled down to the toons but this was silly. I don't know how it happened but I noticed at the end of the last dungeon my health was 57k. Yes 57k. That explained why I was standing in front of the end boss each time just holding up the shield, periodically taunting them and my health bar hardly moved. The only time I burned magicka was on the mobs where I really didn't tank. I did learn that the chain pull skill can occasionally kill them, and igniting my weapon also used magicka. Other than that, and I know these 2 are easy, but this was just silly - even at level 30. Am I missing something? I will add I did buff on food and max out the CP on health and armor. Maybe the healers were keeping me whole. I did announce at the start of all 4 that they had a rookie.

Fennwitty

Bitter_Apple21 wrote: »

@Oreyn_Bearclaw okay, just ran fg1 and banished 1 twice each. Don't know if the dungeon scaled down to the toons but this was silly. I don't know how it happened but I noticed at the end of the last dungeon my health was 57k. Yes 57k. That explained why I was standing in front of the end boss each time just holding up the shield, periodically taunting them and my health bar hardly moved. The only time I burned magicka was on the mobs where I really didn't tank. I did learn that the chain pull skill can occasionally kill them, and igniting my weapon also used magicka. Other than that, and I know these 2 are easy, but this was just silly - even at level 30. Am I missing something? I will add I did buff on food and max out the CP on health and armor. Maybe the healers were keeping me whole. I did announce at the start of all 4 that they had a rookie.

If you're grouped with higher level characters, your under-50 will get a ton of buffs to try and compensate. You got scaled up effectively.

Normal base game dungeon bosses only have a few attacks which hit hard also. Not a surprise they didn't do much to your health if you have good resistances and are blocking appropriately.

Bitter_Apple21

Okay, feel the need to apologize for venting. I appreciate your comments on tanking and being new to forums, probably started using you as a bit of a tank mentor, too much.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Bitter_Apple21 wrote: »

@Oreyn_Bearclaw okay, just ran fg1 and banished 1 twice each. Don't know if the dungeon scaled down to the toons but this was silly. I don't know how it happened but I noticed at the end of the last dungeon my health was 57k. Yes 57k. That explained why I was standing in front of the end boss each time just holding up the shield, periodically taunting them and my health bar hardly moved. The only time I burned magicka was on the mobs where I really didn't tank. I did learn that the chain pull skill can occasionally kill them, and igniting my weapon also used magicka. Other than that, and I know these 2 are easy, but this was just silly - even at level 30. Am I missing something? I will add I did buff on food and max out the CP on health and armor. Maybe the healers were keeping me whole. I did announce at the start of all 4 that they had a rookie.

@Bitter_Apple21
You aren't missing anything. A good damage dealer can solo those dungeons very quickly on normal. If you had one Decent DPS in your group, you probably flew through the dungeon. And yes, the stat scaling in dungeons at low levels is pretty crazy. It is really hard to get much in terms of meaningful feedback in the first few dungeons on normal. A tank is just not needed, so the reality is you probably felt like you werent doing a whole lot.

They are good XP, so keep doing them. There is probably more to be learned in the trash pulls than the bosses in the early dungeons. In trash, your job is to stack everything as tight as possible, so practice that. Once you are able, try those same dungeons on vet. It will be more of a challenge, and once you are level 50/160CP, there is no more battle leveling so your stats will be what they will be.

Mojmir

Random vet dungeons. Dont worry, plenty of experts will drop advice. 😆

Bitter_Apple21

Thanks to all. Very much appreciated.

Did not know about the "stat leveling" or "battle leveling". I was suspecting that maybe the mobs or bosses were lighter, but not that our characters were "buffed". Really does mean that I should not base any attribute point changes until after the level 50 transition and then see what the "true" stat picture is.

Tried Direfrost, but could not taunt Drodda. However, just found a post that stated the boss is immune to taunts. Goes back to someone's comments that depending on the dungeon, perhaps slot more damage skills than tank skills.

etchedpixels

You get a respec scroll near level 50 so you can address it then. In addition at 50 you can now simply load an empty armoury slot into your character and reassign everything if you so wish.

If you keep the proportion of points in the different attributes about right it comes out fine. Once you get a load of CP you may well want to adjust it again as that will also give you more resists and health

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Bitter_Apple21 wrote: »

Thanks to all. Very much appreciated.

Did not know about the "stat leveling" or "battle leveling". I was suspecting that maybe the mobs or bosses were lighter, but not that our characters were "buffed". Really does mean that I should not base any attribute point changes until after the level 50 transition and then see what the "true" stat picture is.

Tried Direfrost, but could not taunt Drodda. However, just found a post that stated the boss is immune to taunts. Goes back to someone's comments that depending on the dungeon, perhaps slot more damage skills than tank skills.

Remember, just because you cant taunt them, doesnt mean you cant debuff them. Yes, Pierce Armor's primary purpose is a taunt, but the Major and Minor Breach are important for your group damage, so keep it up even when they are immune to taunt.

Nothing wrong with some damage, but focus on being a tank first. Very few bosses are untauntable.

Bitter_Apple21

@Oreyn_Bearclaw

Thanks. I had been solely focused on its use for taunting and I did not even realize it has other benefits.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Bitter_Apple21 wrote: »

@Oreyn_Bearclaw

Thanks. I had been solely focused on its use for taunting and I did not even realize it has other benefits.

When it comes to buffing your group, penetration really is the most important thing you can do for them. It is a massive damage buff. Major/Minor Breach is the most obvious. Another is a crusher enchant on your weapon. If you back bar an infused Destro Staff with a Crusher enchant, as long as you keep up elemental wall, the glyph will have 100% uptime. There are also gear sets worn mostly by tanks or healers that apply additional penetration as well.

The second most important buff is probably War Horn. Once you unlock it, you should try to cast it at the beginning of boss fights when most damage dealers will dump their own ultimates, and if possible, when you get to execute. That is why a lot of tanks focus on Ult Regeneration in their gear sets.

Bitter_Apple21

@Oreyn_Bearclaw

On my backbar I have a Frost staff to work on the remote taunt skill. I will make sure that I get it into that mode (Infused/Crusher). I do not think I have the elemental wall slotted yet for the staff. You mean Unstable wall or Blockade?

BejaProphet

Blockade for tanks. You want the extra duration and area coverage. Damage is not the point. You want it to be there a long time to keep refreshing crusher enchant.

Bitter_Apple21

Folks, thanks all.

History as DD never used frost that way. It extends shield to others. Someone said earlier, hard to practice tanking in these base dungeons. Everything is too fast. Will say though, helps to simple get the practice on the skills I.e. interesting to chain up mobs even if DPS are running around, or on the rotation, taunt, the ice shield, and back again. Just got to work up to dungeons where tanking is "needed". If nothing else the wait times in the waiting queue are almost

Bitter_Apple21

...almost zero.. oops

Bitter_Apple21

Folks, been running the base dungeons I can, due to level, to work on skills. Beginning to actually see the final boss come to me under taunt (I presume) even if I back up slowly to get room for the DPS - or as in Crypt 1 thinking I should separate the two final bosses. But in some of the other encounters, although I get some attention from a miniboss, they sometimes just do their own thing. Actually, on the Crypt 1, can I have both bosses taunted at the same time?

Question - is there some screen symbol that shows I have actually got them under taunt? I found the basic menu for the little square symbol buffs, and I see things counting down, but they might be anything. Just tried searching the web and did not get an obvious answer.

K9002

You're looking for this debuff, that's taunt. It also has a visual effect on enemies, looks like red fumes and it's easily lost among other skill effects. Can be hard to notice on really large enemies too. You can taunt multiple enemies, each gets their own debuff.


Bosses do their own thing pretty often, which a lot of DPS players can't understand and might blame it on you. There are boss abilities that target random party members or pick on specific targets. Like the final boss in Tempest Island will always attack the first person that tries to step too far away from her (or gets blown away) and it has absolutely nothing to do with the tank's skill level. Some bosses are designed to periodically force repositioning too. The siblings in Wayrest Sewers II do that, the sister will deliberately move away from her brother.

etchedpixels

Bitter_Apple21 wrote: »

Folks, been running the base dungeons I can, due to level, to work on skills. Beginning to actually see the final boss come to me under taunt (I presume) even if I back up slowly to get room for the DPS - or as in Crypt 1 thinking I should separate the two final bosses. But in some of the other encounters, although I get some attention from a miniboss, they sometimes just do their own thing. Actually, on the Crypt 1, can I have both bosses taunted at the same time?

There are some that don't taunt and a fair number who will take pot shots at anyone or jump at whichever dps/healer is too far from the fight. Nothing you can do about those, the DPS and healer need to learn where to stand.

You can keep a lot of stuff taunted, although it takes a lot of work when there are a bunch of them. Fro CoH1 you can absolutely taunt both although only the axe wielding maniac will follow you. For weak dps groups it's often easier to sit on the edge of the circle (outside the AoE) holding mr mad axeman while keeping the one in the centre range taunted, for higher dps groups just stack em and burn.

Snow_White

vAS. Saint Olm is a great tank training dummy, Just run in solo, taunt him, and try not to die, I’m pretty sure you can do it at level 30, but if not you can still practice against normal Saint Olm. The main advantage to vet is that he hits harder, which will beat the bad habits out of you.

At first, just focus on maintaining taunt and staying alive. You’ll have to block and roll dodge to not get one shot, heavy attack to manage stamina, plus self heal and maintain your major resolve. All the basic tank stuff, but you can practice it on your own time without having others depending on you.

Once you can do all that for four or five minutes without dying, start to add in blockade for crusher uptime, then start working on uptime for other buffs/debuffs you want to maintain.

I didn’t see it mentioned as I skimmed through part of the thread, but if you’re on PC I recommend using the Untaunted add on to track taunts.

Bitter_Apple21

Folks, thanks.

@K9002 Particularly on the Taunt symbol - that will help me.

@Snow_White
I am not part of any guild and as such, just presumed that trials were not accessible. Never thought of just trying something solo (walking in) to see if I can get there and survive. Might give that a try.

@etchedpixels
Someone early on (this post or an other) mentioned that trying to learn tanking - or getting feedback - doesn't really happen in the lower level base dungeons. The DPSs just blaze thru. The response was you would only truly start getting feedback on the vet level DLC dungeons, so most of what I am trying to do is "self assess" to see if I am at least working on skills or format while at this level. Like taunting and then moving back to try and learn the "positioning" part of the job.

Actually, starting to give some thought to a different bar set up, as - at least at these levels - it feels odd to try and "group" the trash mobs, but by the time I get there, some higher level DPS has just taken care of all that. Most of my slots are loaded with "taunting tank" skills and not much else, just so that I can drive the XP. If nothing else, these skills would be useful in overland adventuring, when the tanking/taunting group buff skills are not needed in the slots.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Bitter_Apple21 wrote: »

Folks, thanks.

@K9002 Particularly on the Taunt symbol - that will help me.

@Snow_White
I am not part of any guild and as such, just presumed that trials were not accessible. Never thought of just trying something solo (walking in) to see if I can get there and survive. Might give that a try.

@etchedpixels
Someone early on (this post or an other) mentioned that trying to learn tanking - or getting feedback - doesn't really happen in the lower level base dungeons. The DPSs just blaze thru. The response was you would only truly start getting feedback on the vet level DLC dungeons, so most of what I am trying to do is "self assess" to see if I am at least working on skills or format while at this level. Like taunting and then moving back to try and learn the "positioning" part of the job.

Actually, starting to give some thought to a different bar set up, as - at least at these levels - it feels odd to try and "group" the trash mobs, but by the time I get there, some higher level DPS has just taken care of all that. Most of my slots are loaded with "taunting tank" skills and not much else, just so that I can drive the XP. If nothing else, these skills would be useful in overland adventuring, when the tanking/taunting group buff skills are not needed in the slots.

Certainly a lot of ways to build a tank, but there really arent that many ways to taunt.

I think most tanks would be smart to have skill slot number 1 be a taunt on both bars. On your S+B bar, that is pierce armor. On your back bar (often a staff) use inner Fire from the undaunted line. That way the same button will always taunt.

Sure no two fights are the same, but for a one size fits all type build, you probably want to satisfy some basic tank necessities.

You have 10 skill slots and two ultimate's. Two slots are taken up by your taunts. One ultimate should be Agressive Warhorn (Major Force). The other can really be anything, perhaps something selfish for survival, something that benefits the group in a crisis (like a necro res ulti) or something that is really just there for the passives.

So 4 of your 12 slots are spoken for. In terms of the last 8:

You are going to want something that gives your major resolve (usually a class skill that does this) and you are going to want some sort of burst heal. That leaves 6.

You are going to want some sort of ground AOE (blockade, hail, Stamped, depending on back bar weapon), to keep up your back bar enchant, and some sort of pull skill (chains, silver leash, warden portals, etc), that leaves 4.

The last 4 skills are where you will see some variation, both among different playstyles, and depending on the fight at hand. Some ideas:

A nice Debuff. Heroic Slash is very common, does both minor maim on the boss, they deal less damage, and minor heroism (ult regen) for you.

A nice group buff: Something like igneous weapon for a DK for the major damage buffs or being sure you are able to give minor toughness on your warden (from the passives).

Additional healing: I think you should definitely have a burst heal, but an additional heal over time is likely a smart move as well, especially early on.

Something for sustain: sources of major endurance, intellect, or fortitude are very useful. Some classes also have specific tools for recovery. For example, a DK can spam igneous shield while blocking. Not only do they get a damage shield and major mending, but the helping hands passive also returns stamina (even while blocking).

Something for Crowd control other than chains: Chains can be used to position them, but then something like Talons to immobilize.

Point is, every skill should have a purpose, and the lowest priority should be a damage skill. Try to avoid redundancies. Keep skills that need to be cast more frequently or in emergencies on your main (S+B) Bar, and put longer duration, or ranged skills on your back bar.

Bitter_Apple21

@Oreyn_Bearclaw

Thanks. Really appreciate the help.

Each time, I think I am getting close to something, I then learn that there is still more to learn on this.

Over the past year on all 3 other toons, I had never focused on Ult regen. On my DPS folks, it just seemed to "grow", never focused on buffing it.

With my tank, I have occasionally used the DK standard ult when dealing with a boss to help with my damage output, and had never considered a slot that can increase the Ult regen. I had gotten Low slash morphed to Heroic and then pushed it aside for something else.

Thanks again.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Bitter_Apple21 wrote: »

@Oreyn_Bearclaw

Thanks. Really appreciate the help.

Each time, I think I am getting close to something, I then learn that there is still more to learn on this.

Over the past year on all 3 other toons, I had never focused on Ult regen. On my DPS folks, it just seemed to "grow", never focused on buffing it.

With my tank, I have occasionally used the DK standard ult when dealing with a boss to help with my damage output, and had never considered a slot that can increase the Ult regen. I had gotten Low slash morphed to Heroic and then pushed it aside for something else.

Thanks again.

In a good group, casting Aggressive Warhorn (increases group mag and stam and gives group Major Force) will buff group damage by more than any DPS ultimate ever will. In other words, a warhorn is better total DPS than a DK standard if you are the tank.

First think in terms of survivability, but after that, think how do I buff my group. Faster you generate ultimate, the more Warhorns you can cast, the higher your group damage. And on a DK, an ult means resources (Battle Roar Passives), so selfishly, buffing your own ulti generation indirectly buffs your own sustain. Everything ties together, even if its not obvious at first.