A Letter to ZoS: Please Improve Your Communication

Tornaad

furiouslog wrote: »

you guys might want to check this out if you haven't already:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/595742/a-response-on-communications/p1

TLDR: based on Gina's response, ZOS is quite clearly trying to change what they are doing with communication, but it's a work in progress.

Thank you @furiouslog I have seen that before, and that and many other things have given me hope for better communication going forward.

Elsonso

katanagirl1 wrote: »

Zuboko wrote: »

I don't know how much of the recent communication efforts we are seeing came from my letter, but I just wanted to say I have noticed the improved communication and think that it is an amazing and major step in the right direction.

There was improved communication right after the announcement, but mere days afterward the silence has returned.

I find that this happens a lot. Sprinters, not endurance runners.

Tornaad

Elsonso wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

Zuboko wrote: »

I don't know how much of the recent communication efforts we are seeing came from my letter, but I just wanted to say I have noticed the improved communication and think that it is an amazing and major step in the right direction.

There was improved communication right after the announcement, but mere days afterward the silence has returned.

I find that this happens a lot. Sprinters, not endurance runners.

This kind of thing is a delicate act. It is unrealistic to expect them to communicate every day or even every week. They do need to be careful, and more importantly, they need to take action, and given the scale of the things they are taking action on, namely

ZOS_MattFiror wrote: »

rewrite some of the foundational server code

it is going to take months.
To properly improve communication, they need to balance action with words. And in this case, action is going to take time.
And given what @ZOS_MattFiror said in that PVP update post, I am not surprised it took them as long as it did to come to that decision. I can only imagine the amount of red tape they would have had to jump through in order to get permission on a business and finance level to put in that much work into fixing something.

Most likely what was going on, is a well-informed dev presented the idea, and a higher up did some research of his own and said well what if it's this? Let's try this test to see. And from there after a few rounds of that, they finally ran out of other things that would be cheaper and far easier to fix, and said something to the fact of "Ok, you were right." And then they moved forward with the fix.

What was discussed in that post is huge. On a business level, that is enormous, and impressive that they are going to that kind of extent. It speaks worlds to the devotion they have to the quality and longevity of this game. And that gives me a lot of hope. So, that is why I took the time to say thank you, after posting my extremely long letter.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/595442/eso-pvp-update-january-2022/p1

SkaraMinoc

We get communication on the Battlegrounds forum maybe 1-2 times per year. It's almost non-existent.

The silence from ZOS makes it appear that nothing is being done to improve the state of Battlegrounds.

It seems like ZOS just doesn't care. It feels unprofessional.

Tornaad

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

We get communication on the Battlegrounds forum maybe 1-2 times per year. It's almost non-existent.

The silence from ZOS makes it appear that nothing is being done to improve the state of Battlegrounds.

It seems like ZOS just doesn't care. It feels unprofessional.

@SkaraMinoc I understand your concerns. The very feelings you express in your response are what motivated my original letter. Thankfully, they have told us quite a bit. Yes, I still think they can do better, but what they have told us is huge. As I mentioned in my last reply, they are rewriting the servers. Once they do that, if I am right, then you will see most of your Battle Grounds problems go away and they will be much more free to do more things for the Battle Grounds.

SkaraMinoc

I can only remember 2 communications in the past 14 months on the Battlegrounds forums.

1) we are adding new Deathmatch queues
2) we are reverting to the old queues because BG participation did not significantly increase

ZOS never took ownership and admitted the flaw in their testing methodology. Namely, having 1 player queued for Deathmatch forces 11 players queued for Random to also play Deathmatch. (i.e. ~95%+ of the time you get Deathmatch)

Here's what they should have done.

1) we are adding new Deathmatch queues
2) oops! we messed up the queues and here's how we're going to fix it
3) hotfix goes out 2 weeks later
4) new BG queue test happens for 3 months
5) make a business decision on how to enhance the BG queues

When there's silence, players are going to make assumptions. The assumptions I've made are

• it seems like they dodged the elephant in the room to save face and not look bad
• they just don't care about BGs enough to fix the flawed queues and do a proper test

Tornaad

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

I can only remember 2 communications in the past 14 months on the Battlegrounds forums.

1) we are adding new Deathmatch queues
2) we are reverting to the old queues because BG participation did not significantly increase

ZOS never took ownership and admitted the flaw in their testing methodology. Namely, having 1 player queued for Deathmatch forces 11 players queued for Random to also play Deathmatch. (i.e. ~95%+ of the time you get Deathmatch)

Here's what they should have done.

1) we are adding new Deathmatch queues
2) oops! we messed up the queues and here's how we're going to fix it
3) hotfix goes out 2 weeks later
4) new BG queue test happens for 3 months
5) make a business decision on how to enhance the BG queues

When there's silence, players are going to make assumptions. The assumptions I've made are

• it seems like they dodged the elephant in the room to save face and not look bad
• they just don't care about BGs enough to fix the flawed queues and do a proper test

@SkaraMinoc And things like that are why I wrote this letter in December. So, while yes, it is bad that they have been in the past so lax on communication, to be fair, we want to look at what has happened since this post, and I would say that post I linked to earlier is an amazing start.

SkaraMinoc

Zuboko wrote: »

I would say that post I linked to earlier is an amazing start.

I'm reading it now, thanks.

Tornaad

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

Zuboko wrote: »

I would say that post I linked to earlier is an amazing start.

I'm reading it now, thanks.

Not a problem. And technically, the fact that someone as passionate as you are, were unaware of that post, is a testimony of why I suggested some of the different communication methods I did, in my original letter.

Wolfpaw

I would love to see a letter to the community on the long term goal for combat. We get to see pieces of a puzzle pts after pts that leaves the community scratching their heads on the bigger picture.

Tornaad

Wolfpaw wrote: »

I would love to see a letter to the community on the long term goal for combat. We get to see pieces of a puzzle pts after pts that leaves the community scratching their heads on the bigger picture.

That would be nice.

Riptide

The sort of communication I’ve rather wanted for years is something like a profit and loss statement. Not that detailed, for Zenimax Online Studios is a subsidiary, and it isn’t realistic or feasible that a deep breakdown be made available to the general public.

But I’ve long had a sense that the company contracts and subcontracts much of its work, that new area development is the only area that gets any kind of real spend, that there are three times as many marketing folks as full time developers, and that middle management has almost no latitude or impact either direction vertically. Has felt like for years the sort of company where either Directors are actually project managers, or where the team leads get shunted that and they lack parity at any table.

It is only curiosity, but I’m just musing. Theres few companies this one would enjoy reorging more (or at least being a fly on the wall during it), be more fun than any in game content

Aldoss

Here's an example of the communication I want to see.

Yesterday, a post on the general discussion board concerning PvP and eso+ was deleted from the board. It wasn't locked. It didn't have comments blocked for violating codes of conduct. It was deleted, and never discussed.

Why?

On what grounds was that thread deleted? There were a lot of great ideas and information regarding the topic and from what I got through, everyone was cordial with each other.

If a rule was broken, lock it and tell us why so that we don't make the mistake in the future. Deleting it from existence without saying anything only make me trust ZOS less that they actually want to improve their communication.

Actions speak louder than words.

Tornaad

Riptide wrote: »

The sort of communication I’ve rather wanted for years is something like a profit and loss statement. Not that detailed, for Zenimax Online Studios is a subsidiary, and it isn’t realistic or feasible that a deep breakdown be made available to the general public.

But I’ve long had a sense that the company contracts and subcontracts much of its work, that new area development is the only area that gets any kind of real spend, that there are three times as many marketing folks as full time developers, and that middle management has almost no latitude or impact either direction vertically. Has felt like for years the sort of company where either Directors are actually project managers, or where the team leads get shunted that and they lack parity at any table.

It is only curiosity, but I’m just musing. Theres few companies this one would enjoy reorging more (or at least being a fly on the wall during it), be more fun than any in game content

I love your idea. I have been trying to figure out a new document to file with quarterly filings to enable public corporations to shift from the short term (all too often 3 to 12 months) view that many of them end up focusing on, into something more long term possibly 10 or 20 years out (and maybe even longer) and as I read your comment, I realized that my goal cannot really be achieved with numbers, but with words. Thank you @Riptide for that wonderful insight. Now, to construct the form and create predictable metrics around it that investors can use to make informed decisions on. It is interesting where you can get insights from.

ShawnLaRock

Hey - what did they say the date of the next event was?

Oh, wait - they haven’t communicated that info yet… even though it is either 2 days, or 9 days away.

S.

VaranisArano

ShawnLaRock wrote: »

Hey - what did they say the date of the next event was?

Oh, wait - they haven’t communicated that info yet… even though it is either 2 days, or 9 days away.

S.

Q1 Calendar for Events: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/595968/q1-in-game-events-2022-january-through-march

And they provided an explanation for why they can't give the exact dates way in advance.

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Destai We try to give as much notice as we can, but we want to make sure the date we give is concrete and does not change. But we will communicate dates through the article for each event, and we will update the first post as dates become available.

TL;DR: We don't have a direct answer for how far in advance. But we will mention this internally for future event consideration.

Ironically, this is actually an example of reasonably good communication, IMO. They gave us the information they had on hand. More importantly, they were upfront about why they aren't giving us the additional information now that we said would be useful.

Riptide

Zuboko wrote: »

I love your idea. I have been trying to figure out a new document to file with quarterly filings to enable public corporations to shift from the short term (all too often 3 to 12 months) view that many of them end up focusing on, into something more long term possibly 10 or 20 years out (and maybe even longer) and as I read your comment, I realized that my goal cannot really be achieved with numbers, but with words. Thank you @Riptide for that wonderful insight. Now, to construct the form and create predictable metrics around it that investors can use to make informed decisions on. It is interesting where you can get insights from.

Coming on twenty years ago I rose from programmer to CEO of a software company doing content management before that was an industry term. We broke into cancer research, and then I rather outlived my usefulness in the eyes of a couple fellas 20 years my senior who were tired of that dynamic, so they paid me off, replaced me with someone real polished looking and sounding but little real vision and ran the company into the ground. Also wrote gaming articles back then and since have ran very large gaming communities. Been a guild/corp/whatever leader so many times its embarrassing, was head of a freemasons lodge, held minor public office, and a whole bunch of stuff including a tour in the infantry before all that. Was an alpha tester here.

Anyway, seen some things, enough to kinda chuckle at quite a few things and have some opinions and ramble

ZOS_GinaBruno

VaranisArano wrote: »

ShawnLaRock wrote: »

Hey - what did they say the date of the next event was?

Oh, wait - they haven’t communicated that info yet… even though it is either 2 days, or 9 days away.

S.

Q1 Calendar for Events: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/595968/q1-in-game-events-2022-january-through-march

And they provided an explanation for why they can't give the exact dates way in advance.

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Destai We try to give as much notice as we can, but we want to make sure the date we give is concrete and does not change. But we will communicate dates through the article for each event, and we will update the first post as dates become available.

TL;DR: We don't have a direct answer for how far in advance. But we will mention this internally for future event consideration.

Ironically, this is actually an example of reasonably good communication, IMO. They gave us the information they had on hand. More importantly, they were upfront about why they aren't giving us the additional information now that we said would be useful.

For what it's worth, we're planning to publish the website article with all the details on Whitestrake's Mayhem (our next event) this week.

Elsonso

Riptide wrote: »

The sort of communication I’ve rather wanted for years is something like a profit and loss statement. Not that detailed, for Zenimax Online Studios is a subsidiary, and it isn’t realistic or feasible that a deep breakdown be made available to the general public.

I would just be interested in seeing player counts over time. Not this "accounts created" metric that they toss out every year, but number of active players (with "active" well defined). However, I am not sure how I would use that information in my every day life.

hafgood

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

For what it's worth, we're planning to publish the website article with all the details on Whitestrake's Mayhem (our next event) this week.

Whilst I thank you for the update its really coming too late. We should be getting told the dates of any events at least at the start of the month if not the start of the quarter.

I don't believe the dates may change baloney. You are a big organisation and can make dates work.

Many players work, they need as much notice of events as possible so they can plan accordingly. You would find a lot of players would be a lot happier if we knew when events were going to happen well in advance.

And on that note I don't understand why you don't publish the plan for the years events when you do the global launch, that one can be without dates

VaranisArano

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

ShawnLaRock wrote: »

Hey - what did they say the date of the next event was?

Oh, wait - they haven’t communicated that info yet… even though it is either 2 days, or 9 days away.

S.

Q1 Calendar for Events: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/595968/q1-in-game-events-2022-january-through-march

And they provided an explanation for why they can't give the exact dates way in advance.

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Destai We try to give as much notice as we can, but we want to make sure the date we give is concrete and does not change. But we will communicate dates through the article for each event, and we will update the first post as dates become available.

TL;DR: We don't have a direct answer for how far in advance. But we will mention this internally for future event consideration.

Ironically, this is actually an example of reasonably good communication, IMO. They gave us the information they had on hand. More importantly, they were upfront about why they aren't giving us the additional information now that we said would be useful.

For what it's worth, we're planning to publish the website article with all the details on Whitestrake's Mayhem (our next event) this week.

Sweet, thanks!

Means I need to get working to update my guide...

Scaletho

I don't intent to engage in any uncomfortable discussion but regarding the "the massive monetization" of ESO I think ZOS should cut us some slack and be more reasonable about how the company sell in-game material.

I understand that ZOS is not a small gaming company, and as such they are in the business to make big money.

I ask to long time ESO players: did you know how much money you spent during years of playing ESO (ESO plus, crowns, expansion, etc)? I my case I spent with ESO several hundreds of dollars! To me, its a lot of money.

I mean, it's ok for gaming industry create a reasonable way to get our money but all I ask to ZOS is a honest and more generous way to give the community better chance to get satisfactory prizes from events, DLCs, expansions and seasonal features.

Take it, for example, the Blackwood chapter/expansion. Its selling price was insanely huge! I personally wait and bought it on sale, but the fact is what we got from Blackwood expansion do not worth its price imho.

Another issue is the ESO plus. Its not a mandatory feature, but if you decide not to take it, your game play surely will be very limited. Because even if you already have all DLCs (with means a huge amount of money to buy), you still have a serious lack of material slots in your characters backpack.

What I'm say is, without ESO plus you should have a very poor limit to play ESO and gather useful materials. And after years of paying this feature you will ending paying for ESO dozens of times! What we have in return for this serious amount of money is simply not enough.

I don't have solutions. But I just wish to say I'm not happy how ZOS sell ESO features with so few return for the players. And considering this, I ask the company to consider better ways to reward loyal players who love ESO and wish to keep playing and supporting for years to come.

Tornaad

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

ShawnLaRock wrote: »

Hey - what did they say the date of the next event was?

Oh, wait - they haven’t communicated that info yet… even though it is either 2 days, or 9 days away.

S.

Q1 Calendar for Events: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/595968/q1-in-game-events-2022-january-through-march

And they provided an explanation for why they can't give the exact dates way in advance.

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Destai We try to give as much notice as we can, but we want to make sure the date we give is concrete and does not change. But we will communicate dates through the article for each event, and we will update the first post as dates become available.

TL;DR: We don't have a direct answer for how far in advance. But we will mention this internally for future event consideration.

Ironically, this is actually an example of reasonably good communication, IMO. They gave us the information they had on hand. More importantly, they were upfront about why they aren't giving us the additional information now that we said would be useful.

For what it's worth, we're planning to publish the website article with all the details on Whitestrake's Mayhem (our next event) this week.

If it counts for anything, I think it does.

LonePirate

Official event notices are almost always posted a week or more in advance, not a day in advance and not the day of. We already know the event is a February event and given that events always start on Thursdays, the event will start on either the 17th or the 24th and it will run until the 1st or 8th depending on the start date. There is not much mystery surrounding the events.

madrab73

LonePirate wrote: »

Official event notices are almost always posted a week or more in advance, not a day in advance and not the day of. We already know the event is a February event and given that events always start on Thursdays, the event will start on either the 17th or the 24th and it will run until the 1st or 8th depending on the start date. There is not much mystery surrounding the events.

The problem is that they can tell us we can spend money on the new chapter releasing June 6th but seem unable to confirm when events will start until a few days before.

Why even confirm a press release will be released this week (on Wednesday). Has it not been drafted yet?

It doesn't give confience that they will be able to fix performance by Q4

tomofhyrule

LonePirate wrote: »

Official event notices are almost always posted a week or more in advance, not a day in advance and not the day of. We already know the event is a February event and given that events always start on Thursdays, the event will start on either the 17th or the 24th and it will run until the 1st or 8th depending on the start date. There is not much mystery surrounding the events.

If the event article is due this week, it suggests it’ll be 17 Feb-1 Mar since the article drops a week before.

Pity - I’m off of work for the week of 28 Feb, so it just misses it. Was really hoping the event would start on the 24th.

Ingenon

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

For what it's worth, we're planning to publish the website article with all the details on Whitestrake's Mayhem (our next event) this week.

Thanks! Looking forward to it.

Tornaad

madrab73 wrote: »

LonePirate wrote: »

Official event notices are almost always posted a week or more in advance, not a day in advance and not the day of. We already know the event is a February event and given that events always start on Thursdays, the event will start on either the 17th or the 24th and it will run until the 1st or 8th depending on the start date. There is not much mystery surrounding the events.

The problem is that they can tell us we can spend money on the new chapter releasing June 6th but seem unable to confirm when events will start until a few days before.

Why even confirm a press release will be released this week (on Wednesday). Has it not been drafted yet?

It doesn't give confience that they will be able to fix performance by Q4

What you are talking about is caused by the traditional business model of communication. And while that model has served businesses well for thousands of years, I believe that the dawn of the digital age has brought us to a point where that communication style needs to change, and that what the reason why I started this thread.

hafgood

In my real life job I have to plan stuff a year in advance and the dates don't change, they can't. Yet in game we are lucky if we get a weeks notice, there will be a timetable in the office wall detailing all the events of the year including release updates, very occasionally releases move due to issues with them.

Just publish the timetable, but a provisional marker on the events yet to be held so we know they might move, but just publish it.

Keeping us in the dark all the time is just pants to be honest, communication is such a simple thing and when done well is really useful to all concerned.

Unfortunately we rarely get good communication, we normally get rushed last minute communication or communication caused by other events.

It's time for a PvP update by the way, yes I know about Matt Firors letter. But that was a while ago now, we need an update as to what is happening, or better still the proposed timetable for delivering the changes needed. Just saying something once and then no updates is another example of lousy communication

agelonestar

Communication to us is great - when it happens. The problems, to my mind, are as follows:-

1. This forum is drastically under-utilised by ZoS - they seem to prefer comms via other channels to their own official forum, which I find weird.
2. This forum is incredibly over-managed to the point where it feels like any criticism of ZoS is either edited out, removed, the player warned or even worse, banned (banned for communicating - seriously - wtf??). Posts are routinely closed. That’s not moderation, it’s censorship, plain and simple. The “bashing” excuse is overused x1,000.
3. ZoS gives the impression that they don’t listen. The PTS feels like a constant round of players saying “please don’t do that” en masse, followed swiftly by ZoS doing that anyway! This is inevitably followed by an outcry from players: you did that thing and now the game is broken….. hello….. hello….. is there anyone out there….?
4. The same is true about feedback here. Communication runs both ways. If ZoS wanted to they could take the comments made here and make a better and more profitable game - just implement things that customers / players actually want. There are literally lists of those things on this forum. People actually saying “you can charge me for that”. Not two players. Lots of them. The same stuff over and over and over. I reckon they’d make next year’s profit target just by adding a furnishing limit increase to the Crown Store.
5. Some topics have been running for so long without any appreciable progress that any communication about them is just embarrassing. Take Cyrodiil as the example. But it’s ok…..they’re gonna fix it. One day. Honest…… In reality Cyrodiil is dead as a dodo (relative to where it was).

So ZoS, if you’re listening - and I appreciate you probably aren’t - please use your own forum more, please demonstrate that you’re listening more, please cease and desist the censorship in the forum….. and PLEASE…. If we’re wrong, tell us. Tell me that my voice asking for that thing is in the minority. Prove it. Serve the customer.

You’d improve our game no end.