Frostbite set. I’ve changed my opinion.

MindOfTheSwarm

This is actually a damn good set for Frost builds. It practically turns your Frost Reach into a spammable and 14% extra damage for Frost Damage and 6% extra Damage on everything else is not bad at all. Currently running it with Deadly Strike as I have a lot of DoT’s but considering Tzogvin’s or Kinras instead.

MindOfTheSwarm

What would the community suggest? Tsogvin’s or Kinras. I’m even considering Tzogvin’s as armor. Since Mag builds can benefit from running medium it might be good with the extra Crit Damage and Spell Damage available. Just losing out on Pen but then Tzogvin’s gives a big chunk of it back. Gonna have to test this. I think the numbers should be nice if I can keep up the stacks.

Vevvev

Frost Reach was reworked to become a spammable over the other elements.

Destructive Touch:

This ability and its morphs now guarantee their respective element type’s status effect on hit.

Increased the cost to 2970, up from 2700 to incorporate the added auxiliary effect.

Increased the range to 15 meters from 14 meters for better consistency since Destructive Clench was already 15 meters.

The Frost Touch and Reach versions of this ability now deal 80% more damage on its initial hit to make them equal to other ranged spammable damage attacks to give love to those Frost DPS out there.

Destructive Clench (morph): The Frost version of this ability still remains tank-focused rather than DPS-focused, and as such has received a cost reduction to 1485, down from 2700. It also applies Major Maim for 5 seconds at rank IV.

So yes the Frostbite set would indeed make the ability even better. I don't know what other set would work alongside Frostbite though, sorry but it's out of my area of expertise.

Araneae6537

Looking at various builds, including ArzyeLBuilds, I would think that for PVE, Bahsei’s Mania or Siroria’s Mantle would pair best. In PVP I used to run Winterborn but the proc doesn’t seem competitive to me. Maybe Hrothgar’s Chill would be a good choice for second set in PVP?

Vaoh

The set itself is really strong.

There’s just not enough frost skills in the game yet for it to be worth it outside of role playing in overland.

If you were to build for pure frost damage it’d be your best option ofc but you’re suffering a big loss from not using other skills.

ESO_Nightingale

the way frostbite works rn it's still beaten by other sets but not by much. if/when we get more frost damage skills like we've been asking for for years, it'll be able to overtake them when you build specifically for frost damage. when you build a frost damage build you only use 2-3 frost damage skills at the moment because of the few frost damage options we have, they're mostly terrible compared with any other real options. we also would like to have more than 1 frost damage monster helmet. That being said. It's not unusable. Just outclassed.

MindOfTheSwarm

Don’t forget though. Your non-Frost skills benefit from 2 of the 3 bonuses resulting in 6% more damage for all non-Frost skills. I am half done with my Tzogvin test as I need some more Magicka Enhants in my armor and I’ve already noticed a 5k DPS increase.

ESO_Nightingale

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

Don’t forget though. Your non-Frost skills benefit from 2 of the 3 bonuses resulting in 6% more damage for all non-Frost skills. I am half done with my Tzogvin test as I need some more Magicka Enhants in my armor and I’ve already noticed a 5k DPS increase.

even still it doesn't beat some of the other good sets only because you just can't build full frost. it's unreasonable to attempt to do so because zenimax hasn't given us enough realistic options. frost reach and winter's revenge are the only good options we have. even unstable wall of frost is still worse than unstable wall of fire.

MindOfTheSwarm

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

Don’t forget though. Your non-Frost skills benefit from 2 of the 3 bonuses resulting in 6% more damage for all non-Frost skills. I am half done with my Tzogvin test as I need some more Magicka Enhants in my armor and I’ve already noticed a 5k DPS increase.

even still it doesn't beat some of the other good sets only because you just can't build full frost. it's unreasonable to attempt to do so because zenimax hasn't given us enough realistic options. frost reach and winter's revenge are the only good options we have. even unstable wall of frost is still worse than unstable wall of fire.

How so? Unstable Wall only costs more. That damage nerf was redacted. It’s also a very good AOE spammable as it does it’s first tick as well as it’s explosion damage. Making it very good for clearing adds. It’s better than Impulse which is kinda weird since Impulse should be doing that job. Also Arctic Blast does respectable damage for it’s duration. Just activate it before you cast your spammable. You could opt for Scorch instead of course but that only gives you 3 seconds of main spammable time while Arctic Blast gives you 5 allowing you to cast your main spammable 2 more times before going to your back bar to restart your skill cycle.

MindOfTheSwarm

However, I do think the set should affect all Frost Damage allowing it to buff glyphs, LA and HA as well sets that deal Frost Damage.

ESO_Nightingale

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

Don’t forget though. Your non-Frost skills benefit from 2 of the 3 bonuses resulting in 6% more damage for all non-Frost skills. I am half done with my Tzogvin test as I need some more Magicka Enhants in my armor and I’ve already noticed a 5k DPS increase.

even still it doesn't beat some of the other good sets only because you just can't build full frost. it's unreasonable to attempt to do so because zenimax hasn't given us enough realistic options. frost reach and winter's revenge are the only good options we have. even unstable wall of frost is still worse than unstable wall of fire.

How so? Unstable Wall only costs more. That damage nerf was redacted. It’s also a very good AOE spammable as it does it’s first tick as well as it’s explosion damage. Making it very good for clearing adds. It’s better than Impulse which is kinda weird since Impulse should be doing that job. Also Arctic Blast does respectable damage for it’s duration. Just activate it before you cast your spammable. You could opt for Scorch instead of course but that only gives you 3 seconds of main spammable time while Arctic Blast gives you 5 allowing you to cast your main spammable 2 more times before going to your back bar to restart your skill cycle.

fire costs less, does more damage to burning enemies regardless and gains benefit from engulfing and encratis in group allowing it to do even more. it also doesn't immobilise enemies making them harder to group up for the tank, sure it provides a shield but it's also not necessary either. you could just have more damage. it's still a no-brainer. unstable wall of frost should be reworked to have a dps focus. frost blockade is fine though. trust me, i've been up to date with all of this stuff for a long time. they forgot to update the pts tooltip back in markarth so it still stated that it did less even though we badgered them on pts to change it, they then changed it to cost more. additionally, arctic blast is an awful pve skill in it's current state. you don't want to spam a skill that costs 4k every 5 seconds. it's a dps loss and a colossal sustain hemorrhage.

ESO_Nightingale

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

However, I do think the set should affect all Frost Damage allowing it to buff glyphs, LA and HA as well sets that deal Frost Damage.

it does actually buff all frost damage contrary to what the tooltip states. we tested it. even works on proc sets. they should re-word it to make it actually fit what the bonus does.

MindOfTheSwarm

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

Don’t forget though. Your non-Frost skills benefit from 2 of the 3 bonuses resulting in 6% more damage for all non-Frost skills. I am half done with my Tzogvin test as I need some more Magicka Enhants in my armor and I’ve already noticed a 5k DPS increase.

even still it doesn't beat some of the other good sets only because you just can't build full frost. it's unreasonable to attempt to do so because zenimax hasn't given us enough realistic options. frost reach and winter's revenge are the only good options we have. even unstable wall of frost is still worse than unstable wall of fire.

How so? Unstable Wall only costs more. That damage nerf was redacted. It’s also a very good AOE spammable as it does it’s first tick as well as it’s explosion damage. Making it very good for clearing adds. It’s better than Impulse which is kinda weird since Impulse should be doing that job. Also Arctic Blast does respectable damage for it’s duration. Just activate it before you cast your spammable. You could opt for Scorch instead of course but that only gives you 3 seconds of main spammable time while Arctic Blast gives you 5 allowing you to cast your main spammable 2 more times before going to your back bar to restart your skill cycle.

fire costs less, does more damage to burning enemies regardless and gains benefit from engulfing and encratis in group allowing it to do even more. it also doesn't immobilise enemies making them harder to group up for the boss, sure it provides a shield but it's also not necessary either. you could just have more damage. it's still a no-brainer. unstable wall of frost should be reworked to have a dps focus. frost blockade is fine though. trust me, i've been up to date with all of this stuff for a long time. they forgot to update the pts tooltip back in markarth so it still stated that it did less even though we badgered them on pts to change it, they then changed it to cost more. additionally, arctic blast is an awful pve skill in it's current state. you don't want to spam a skill that costs 4k every 5 seconds. it's a dps loss and a colossal sustain hemorrhage.

I don’t get the hate for Arctic Blast. You shouldn’t spam it for sure but I use it in my rotation and I have no issues with sustain. It’s a little pricey sure but most Dots are. Maybe they could half it’s cost for one of the morphs. Have Arctic Blast cost less while Polar Wind keeps its cost but heals for more or something like that. Personally, I feel this skill should scale with highest stats. So Stamden’s can make use of the Glacial Presence passive easier.

MindOfTheSwarm

Also, Encratis is blatant power creep. No wonder Fire is king. To be honest it has been for a long time. I agree on having more Frost skills to round out a Frost build… fingers crossed maybe zos will bring back Spellcrafting.

ESO_Nightingale

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

Don’t forget though. Your non-Frost skills benefit from 2 of the 3 bonuses resulting in 6% more damage for all non-Frost skills. I am half done with my Tzogvin test as I need some more Magicka Enhants in my armor and I’ve already noticed a 5k DPS increase.

even still it doesn't beat some of the other good sets only because you just can't build full frost. it's unreasonable to attempt to do so because zenimax hasn't given us enough realistic options. frost reach and winter's revenge are the only good options we have. even unstable wall of frost is still worse than unstable wall of fire.

How so? Unstable Wall only costs more. That damage nerf was redacted. It’s also a very good AOE spammable as it does it’s first tick as well as it’s explosion damage. Making it very good for clearing adds. It’s better than Impulse which is kinda weird since Impulse should be doing that job. Also Arctic Blast does respectable damage for it’s duration. Just activate it before you cast your spammable. You could opt for Scorch instead of course but that only gives you 3 seconds of main spammable time while Arctic Blast gives you 5 allowing you to cast your main spammable 2 more times before going to your back bar to restart your skill cycle.

fire costs less, does more damage to burning enemies regardless and gains benefit from engulfing and encratis in group allowing it to do even more. it also doesn't immobilise enemies making them harder to group up for the boss, sure it provides a shield but it's also not necessary either. you could just have more damage. it's still a no-brainer. unstable wall of frost should be reworked to have a dps focus. frost blockade is fine though. trust me, i've been up to date with all of this stuff for a long time. they forgot to update the pts tooltip back in markarth so it still stated that it did less even though we badgered them on pts to change it, they then changed it to cost more. additionally, arctic blast is an awful pve skill in it's current state. you don't want to spam a skill that costs 4k every 5 seconds. it's a dps loss and a colossal sustain hemorrhage.

I don’t get the hate for Arctic Blast. You shouldn’t spam it for sure but I use it in my rotation and I have no issues with sustain. It’s a little pricey sure but most Dots are. Maybe they could half it’s cost for one of the morphs. Have Arctic Blast cost less while Polar Wind keeps its cost but heals for more or something like that. Personally, I feel this skill should scale with highest stats. So Stamden’s can make use of the Glacial Presence passive easier.

Arctic Blast literally just isn't worth it over any other viable skill you could consider because it's too expensive and has far too short of a duration to be worthwhile.

Vaoh

We have to wait until zos decides Fire isn’t the only element to get a free 10% buff.

We need more skills like Engulfing but for other damage types. Maybe Lightning Splash on Sorc, a reworked ranged Arctic Blast on Warden, Cripple on NB, etc.

At that point I think we’ll see all around buffs to other elements as well.

Also would be cool to get the Fire damage volley morph back.

MindOfTheSwarm

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

Don’t forget though. Your non-Frost skills benefit from 2 of the 3 bonuses resulting in 6% more damage for all non-Frost skills. I am half done with my Tzogvin test as I need some more Magicka Enhants in my armor and I’ve already noticed a 5k DPS increase.

even still it doesn't beat some of the other good sets only because you just can't build full frost. it's unreasonable to attempt to do so because zenimax hasn't given us enough realistic options. frost reach and winter's revenge are the only good options we have. even unstable wall of frost is still worse than unstable wall of fire.

How so? Unstable Wall only costs more. That damage nerf was redacted. It’s also a very good AOE spammable as it does it’s first tick as well as it’s explosion damage. Making it very good for clearing adds. It’s better than Impulse which is kinda weird since Impulse should be doing that job. Also Arctic Blast does respectable damage for it’s duration. Just activate it before you cast your spammable. You could opt for Scorch instead of course but that only gives you 3 seconds of main spammable time while Arctic Blast gives you 5 allowing you to cast your main spammable 2 more times before going to your back bar to restart your skill cycle.

fire costs less, does more damage to burning enemies regardless and gains benefit from engulfing and encratis in group allowing it to do even more. it also doesn't immobilise enemies making them harder to group up for the boss, sure it provides a shield but it's also not necessary either. you could just have more damage. it's still a no-brainer. unstable wall of frost should be reworked to have a dps focus. frost blockade is fine though. trust me, i've been up to date with all of this stuff for a long time. they forgot to update the pts tooltip back in markarth so it still stated that it did less even though we badgered them on pts to change it, they then changed it to cost more. additionally, arctic blast is an awful pve skill in it's current state. you don't want to spam a skill that costs 4k every 5 seconds. it's a dps loss and a colossal sustain hemorrhage.

I don’t get the hate for Arctic Blast. You shouldn’t spam it for sure but I use it in my rotation and I have no issues with sustain. It’s a little pricey sure but most Dots are. Maybe they could half it’s cost for one of the morphs. Have Arctic Blast cost less while Polar Wind keeps its cost but heals for more or something like that. Personally, I feel this skill should scale with highest stats. So Stamden’s can make use of the Glacial Presence passive easier.

Arctic Blast literally just isn't worth it over any other viable skill you could consider because it's too expensive and has far too short of a duration to be worthwhile.

But it’s better than Shalks in a rotation in my experience. You get 2 more seconds to we’ve in 2 LA and 2 Spammables. Arctic Blast on my toon deals 2k per tick plus I have 100% more Crit Damage and 65% Crit Chance. This means I deal 10k over the duration for AB alone, and that’s if it does not Crit. Now add in the LA and Spammable. LA hit for about 5k and Frost Reach for about 8k if the don’t Crit. Now multiply that by 6 for LA and 5 for Reach. Due to 6 chances to weave during Arctic Blasts pulse. This is 30k for LA and 40k for Reach if nothing crits. Add in the 10k from Arctic Blast. 80k over 5 Seconds.
Shalks in the other hand only gives you 3 seconds which either means you lose out on 10K LA and 16k Reach before you switch to back bar or you cast it twice once before and once after which makes up for the 2 missing LA and Reach. Resulting in similar overall DPS. The difference between the rotations is negligible. Shalks has a range advantage sure but the range on AB is further than it looks and it also gives you more chances to proc brittle and chilled.

Vaoh

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

Don’t forget though. Your non-Frost skills benefit from 2 of the 3 bonuses resulting in 6% more damage for all non-Frost skills. I am half done with my Tzogvin test as I need some more Magicka Enhants in my armor and I’ve already noticed a 5k DPS increase.

even still it doesn't beat some of the other good sets only because you just can't build full frost. it's unreasonable to attempt to do so because zenimax hasn't given us enough realistic options. frost reach and winter's revenge are the only good options we have. even unstable wall of frost is still worse than unstable wall of fire.

How so? Unstable Wall only costs more. That damage nerf was redacted. It’s also a very good AOE spammable as it does it’s first tick as well as it’s explosion damage. Making it very good for clearing adds. It’s better than Impulse which is kinda weird since Impulse should be doing that job. Also Arctic Blast does respectable damage for it’s duration. Just activate it before you cast your spammable. You could opt for Scorch instead of course but that only gives you 3 seconds of main spammable time while Arctic Blast gives you 5 allowing you to cast your main spammable 2 more times before going to your back bar to restart your skill cycle.

fire costs less, does more damage to burning enemies regardless and gains benefit from engulfing and encratis in group allowing it to do even more. it also doesn't immobilise enemies making them harder to group up for the boss, sure it provides a shield but it's also not necessary either. you could just have more damage. it's still a no-brainer. unstable wall of frost should be reworked to have a dps focus. frost blockade is fine though. trust me, i've been up to date with all of this stuff for a long time. they forgot to update the pts tooltip back in markarth so it still stated that it did less even though we badgered them on pts to change it, they then changed it to cost more. additionally, arctic blast is an awful pve skill in it's current state. you don't want to spam a skill that costs 4k every 5 seconds. it's a dps loss and a colossal sustain hemorrhage.

I don’t get the hate for Arctic Blast. You shouldn’t spam it for sure but I use it in my rotation and I have no issues with sustain. It’s a little pricey sure but most Dots are. Maybe they could half it’s cost for one of the morphs. Have Arctic Blast cost less while Polar Wind keeps its cost but heals for more or something like that. Personally, I feel this skill should scale with highest stats. So Stamden’s can make use of the Glacial Presence passive easier.

Arctic Blast literally just isn't worth it over any other viable skill you could consider because it's too expensive and has far too short of a duration to be worthwhile.

But it’s better than Shalks in a rotation in my experience. You get 2 more seconds to we’ve in 2 LA and 2 Spammables. Arctic Blast on my toon deals 2k per tick plus I have 100% more Crit Damage and 65% Crit Chance. This means I deal 10k over the duration for AB alone, and that’s if it does not Crit. Now add in the LA and Spammable. LA hit for about 5k and Frost Reach for about 8k if the don’t Crit. Now multiply that by 6 for LA and 5 for Reach. Due to 6 chances to weave during Arctic Blasts pulse. This is 30k for LA and 40k for Reach if nothing crits. Add in the 10k from Arctic Blast. 80k over 5 Seconds.
Shalks in the other hand only gives you 3 seconds which either means you lose out on 10K LA and 16k Reach before you switch to back bar or you cast it twice once before and once after which makes up for the 2 missing LA and Reach. Resulting in similar overall DPS. The difference between the rotations is negligible. Shalks has a range advantage sure but the range on AB is further than it looks and it also gives you more chances to proc brittle and chilled.

Compared to Arctic Blast, Deep Fissure has 40% less Mag cost, 33% more damage, better range, delayed burst and ends sooner, 2% all Damage Done passive, AoE Major Breach.... you can also use the Sub Assault morph for even more damage+no mag cost.

Arctic Blast is terrible atm unfortunately. They need to fully rework that morph.

FYI if you are providing minor brittle for the group then you have many other ways to go about that.

ESO_Nightingale

Vaoh wrote: »

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

Don’t forget though. Your non-Frost skills benefit from 2 of the 3 bonuses resulting in 6% more damage for all non-Frost skills. I am half done with my Tzogvin test as I need some more Magicka Enhants in my armor and I’ve already noticed a 5k DPS increase.

even still it doesn't beat some of the other good sets only because you just can't build full frost. it's unreasonable to attempt to do so because zenimax hasn't given us enough realistic options. frost reach and winter's revenge are the only good options we have. even unstable wall of frost is still worse than unstable wall of fire.

How so? Unstable Wall only costs more. That damage nerf was redacted. It’s also a very good AOE spammable as it does it’s first tick as well as it’s explosion damage. Making it very good for clearing adds. It’s better than Impulse which is kinda weird since Impulse should be doing that job. Also Arctic Blast does respectable damage for it’s duration. Just activate it before you cast your spammable. You could opt for Scorch instead of course but that only gives you 3 seconds of main spammable time while Arctic Blast gives you 5 allowing you to cast your main spammable 2 more times before going to your back bar to restart your skill cycle.

fire costs less, does more damage to burning enemies regardless and gains benefit from engulfing and encratis in group allowing it to do even more. it also doesn't immobilise enemies making them harder to group up for the boss, sure it provides a shield but it's also not necessary either. you could just have more damage. it's still a no-brainer. unstable wall of frost should be reworked to have a dps focus. frost blockade is fine though. trust me, i've been up to date with all of this stuff for a long time. they forgot to update the pts tooltip back in markarth so it still stated that it did less even though we badgered them on pts to change it, they then changed it to cost more. additionally, arctic blast is an awful pve skill in it's current state. you don't want to spam a skill that costs 4k every 5 seconds. it's a dps loss and a colossal sustain hemorrhage.

I don’t get the hate for Arctic Blast. You shouldn’t spam it for sure but I use it in my rotation and I have no issues with sustain. It’s a little pricey sure but most Dots are. Maybe they could half it’s cost for one of the morphs. Have Arctic Blast cost less while Polar Wind keeps its cost but heals for more or something like that. Personally, I feel this skill should scale with highest stats. So Stamden’s can make use of the Glacial Presence passive easier.

Arctic Blast literally just isn't worth it over any other viable skill you could consider because it's too expensive and has far too short of a duration to be worthwhile.

But it’s better than Shalks in a rotation in my experience. You get 2 more seconds to we’ve in 2 LA and 2 Spammables. Arctic Blast on my toon deals 2k per tick plus I have 100% more Crit Damage and 65% Crit Chance. This means I deal 10k over the duration for AB alone, and that’s if it does not Crit. Now add in the LA and Spammable. LA hit for about 5k and Frost Reach for about 8k if the don’t Crit. Now multiply that by 6 for LA and 5 for Reach. Due to 6 chances to weave during Arctic Blasts pulse. This is 30k for LA and 40k for Reach if nothing crits. Add in the 10k from Arctic Blast. 80k over 5 Seconds.
Shalks in the other hand only gives you 3 seconds which either means you lose out on 10K LA and 16k Reach before you switch to back bar or you cast it twice once before and once after which makes up for the 2 missing LA and Reach. Resulting in similar overall DPS. The difference between the rotations is negligible. Shalks has a range advantage sure but the range on AB is further than it looks and it also gives you more chances to proc brittle and chilled.

Compared to Arctic Blast, Deep Fissure has 40% less lost, 33% more damage, better range, delayed burst and ends sooner, 2% all Damage Done passive, AoE Major Breach.... you can also use the Sub Assault morph for even more damage+no mag cost.

Arctic Blast is terrible atm unfortunately. They need to fully rework that morph.

FYI if you are providing minor brittle for the group then you have many other ways to go about that.

yeah it's really surprising to hear that swarm thinks arctic is better when it's so clearly inferior that no-one ever considers it.

MindOfTheSwarm

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

Don’t forget though. Your non-Frost skills benefit from 2 of the 3 bonuses resulting in 6% more damage for all non-Frost skills. I am half done with my Tzogvin test as I need some more Magicka Enhants in my armor and I’ve already noticed a 5k DPS increase.

even still it doesn't beat some of the other good sets only because you just can't build full frost. it's unreasonable to attempt to do so because zenimax hasn't given us enough realistic options. frost reach and winter's revenge are the only good options we have. even unstable wall of frost is still worse than unstable wall of fire.

How so? Unstable Wall only costs more. That damage nerf was redacted. It’s also a very good AOE spammable as it does it’s first tick as well as it’s explosion damage. Making it very good for clearing adds. It’s better than Impulse which is kinda weird since Impulse should be doing that job. Also Arctic Blast does respectable damage for it’s duration. Just activate it before you cast your spammable. You could opt for Scorch instead of course but that only gives you 3 seconds of main spammable time while Arctic Blast gives you 5 allowing you to cast your main spammable 2 more times before going to your back bar to restart your skill cycle.

fire costs less, does more damage to burning enemies regardless and gains benefit from engulfing and encratis in group allowing it to do even more. it also doesn't immobilise enemies making them harder to group up for the boss, sure it provides a shield but it's also not necessary either. you could just have more damage. it's still a no-brainer. unstable wall of frost should be reworked to have a dps focus. frost blockade is fine though. trust me, i've been up to date with all of this stuff for a long time. they forgot to update the pts tooltip back in markarth so it still stated that it did less even though we badgered them on pts to change it, they then changed it to cost more. additionally, arctic blast is an awful pve skill in it's current state. you don't want to spam a skill that costs 4k every 5 seconds. it's a dps loss and a colossal sustain hemorrhage.

I don’t get the hate for Arctic Blast. You shouldn’t spam it for sure but I use it in my rotation and I have no issues with sustain. It’s a little pricey sure but most Dots are. Maybe they could half it’s cost for one of the morphs. Have Arctic Blast cost less while Polar Wind keeps its cost but heals for more or something like that. Personally, I feel this skill should scale with highest stats. So Stamden’s can make use of the Glacial Presence passive easier.

Arctic Blast literally just isn't worth it over any other viable skill you could consider because it's too expensive and has far too short of a duration to be worthwhile.

But it’s better than Shalks in a rotation in my experience. You get 2 more seconds to we’ve in 2 LA and 2 Spammables. Arctic Blast on my toon deals 2k per tick plus I have 100% more Crit Damage and 65% Crit Chance. This means I deal 10k over the duration for AB alone, and that’s if it does not Crit. Now add in the LA and Spammable. LA hit for about 5k and Frost Reach for about 8k if the don’t Crit. Now multiply that by 6 for LA and 5 for Reach. Due to 6 chances to weave during Arctic Blasts pulse. This is 30k for LA and 40k for Reach if nothing crits. Add in the 10k from Arctic Blast. 80k over 5 Seconds.
Shalks in the other hand only gives you 3 seconds which either means you lose out on 10K LA and 16k Reach before you switch to back bar or you cast it twice once before and once after which makes up for the 2 missing LA and Reach. Resulting in similar overall DPS. The difference between the rotations is negligible. Shalks has a range advantage sure but the range on AB is further than it looks and it also gives you more chances to proc brittle and chilled.

Compared to Arctic Blast, Deep Fissure has 40% less lost, 33% more damage, better range, delayed burst and ends sooner, 2% all Damage Done passive, AoE Major Breach.... you can also use the Sub Assault morph for even more damage+no mag cost.

Arctic Blast is terrible atm unfortunately. They need to fully rework that morph.

FYI if you are providing minor brittle for the group then you have many other ways to go about that.

yeah it's really surprising to hear that swarm thinks arctic is better when it's so clearly inferior that no-one ever considers it.

Not trying to make a case that Arctic is better. I hope that I wasn’t coming coming across that way. I was merely pointing out its pros and it’s viability. Viable does not have to mean optimal. And in my parses (I confess I’m no pro) the damage does go to Scorch but not by much due to the extra LA and Reach making up. I dunno maybe I’m parsing inefficiently but I don’t think 40k parse is terrible on an unoptimised build.

ESO_Nightingale

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

Don’t forget though. Your non-Frost skills benefit from 2 of the 3 bonuses resulting in 6% more damage for all non-Frost skills. I am half done with my Tzogvin test as I need some more Magicka Enhants in my armor and I’ve already noticed a 5k DPS increase.

even still it doesn't beat some of the other good sets only because you just can't build full frost. it's unreasonable to attempt to do so because zenimax hasn't given us enough realistic options. frost reach and winter's revenge are the only good options we have. even unstable wall of frost is still worse than unstable wall of fire.

How so? Unstable Wall only costs more. That damage nerf was redacted. It’s also a very good AOE spammable as it does it’s first tick as well as it’s explosion damage. Making it very good for clearing adds. It’s better than Impulse which is kinda weird since Impulse should be doing that job. Also Arctic Blast does respectable damage for it’s duration. Just activate it before you cast your spammable. You could opt for Scorch instead of course but that only gives you 3 seconds of main spammable time while Arctic Blast gives you 5 allowing you to cast your main spammable 2 more times before going to your back bar to restart your skill cycle.

fire costs less, does more damage to burning enemies regardless and gains benefit from engulfing and encratis in group allowing it to do even more. it also doesn't immobilise enemies making them harder to group up for the boss, sure it provides a shield but it's also not necessary either. you could just have more damage. it's still a no-brainer. unstable wall of frost should be reworked to have a dps focus. frost blockade is fine though. trust me, i've been up to date with all of this stuff for a long time. they forgot to update the pts tooltip back in markarth so it still stated that it did less even though we badgered them on pts to change it, they then changed it to cost more. additionally, arctic blast is an awful pve skill in it's current state. you don't want to spam a skill that costs 4k every 5 seconds. it's a dps loss and a colossal sustain hemorrhage.

I don’t get the hate for Arctic Blast. You shouldn’t spam it for sure but I use it in my rotation and I have no issues with sustain. It’s a little pricey sure but most Dots are. Maybe they could half it’s cost for one of the morphs. Have Arctic Blast cost less while Polar Wind keeps its cost but heals for more or something like that. Personally, I feel this skill should scale with highest stats. So Stamden’s can make use of the Glacial Presence passive easier.

Arctic Blast literally just isn't worth it over any other viable skill you could consider because it's too expensive and has far too short of a duration to be worthwhile.

But it’s better than Shalks in a rotation in my experience. You get 2 more seconds to we’ve in 2 LA and 2 Spammables. Arctic Blast on my toon deals 2k per tick plus I have 100% more Crit Damage and 65% Crit Chance. This means I deal 10k over the duration for AB alone, and that’s if it does not Crit. Now add in the LA and Spammable. LA hit for about 5k and Frost Reach for about 8k if the don’t Crit. Now multiply that by 6 for LA and 5 for Reach. Due to 6 chances to weave during Arctic Blasts pulse. This is 30k for LA and 40k for Reach if nothing crits. Add in the 10k from Arctic Blast. 80k over 5 Seconds.
Shalks in the other hand only gives you 3 seconds which either means you lose out on 10K LA and 16k Reach before you switch to back bar or you cast it twice once before and once after which makes up for the 2 missing LA and Reach. Resulting in similar overall DPS. The difference between the rotations is negligible. Shalks has a range advantage sure but the range on AB is further than it looks and it also gives you more chances to proc brittle and chilled.

Compared to Arctic Blast, Deep Fissure has 40% less lost, 33% more damage, better range, delayed burst and ends sooner, 2% all Damage Done passive, AoE Major Breach.... you can also use the Sub Assault morph for even more damage+no mag cost.

Arctic Blast is terrible atm unfortunately. They need to fully rework that morph.

FYI if you are providing minor brittle for the group then you have many other ways to go about that.

yeah it's really surprising to hear that swarm thinks arctic is better when it's so clearly inferior that no-one ever considers it.

Not trying to make a case that Arctic is better. I hope that I wasn’t coming coming across that way. I was merely pointing out its pros and it’s viability. Viable does not have to mean optimal. And in my parses (I confess I’m no pro) the damage does go to Scorch but not by much due to the extra LA and Reach making up. I dunno maybe I’m parsing inefficiently but I don’t think 40k parse is terrible on an unoptimised build.

The way i look at something like blast, is that "It's so far from optimal i wouldn't ever consider it viable" this can be because the skill either severely lacks damage, and/or it hurts the user more than any other option. In blast's case it's both. It's damage per tick is good. But it's tick amount compared to it's cost is not worth it.

In unstable wall of frost's example it literally costs more and does less damage regardless of how you look at it. And you as a dps don't even care about the shield utility. The unstable wall of frost morph doesn't do more of what it needs to do, and that is damage, unlike fire wall which does. If zenimax wants to have a support frost wall, that's great, but they also want to make frost dps a thing. They have the option to split dps and tank morphs up just like they sucessfully did with frost clench and reach. Blockade is used by tanks. It does less dps, but covers more range and lasts longer meanwhile unstable explodes at the end for a good bit of damage, making it higher dps with less range and duration.

Zos didn't do that. They put supportive effects on both the tank and dps morphs when all that does is punish dps who don't want to constantly be forced to use unstable wall of fire and a fire staff backbar just to get competitive dps. When you play a frost mage, you need every edge you can get.

Naftal

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

Don’t forget though. Your non-Frost skills benefit from 2 of the 3 bonuses resulting in 6% more damage for all non-Frost skills. I am half done with my Tzogvin test as I need some more Magicka Enhants in my armor and I’ve already noticed a 5k DPS increase.

even still it doesn't beat some of the other good sets only because you just can't build full frost. it's unreasonable to attempt to do so because zenimax hasn't given us enough realistic options. frost reach and winter's revenge are the only good options we have. even unstable wall of frost is still worse than unstable wall of fire.

How so? Unstable Wall only costs more. That damage nerf was redacted. It’s also a very good AOE spammable as it does it’s first tick as well as it’s explosion damage. Making it very good for clearing adds. It’s better than Impulse which is kinda weird since Impulse should be doing that job. Also Arctic Blast does respectable damage for it’s duration. Just activate it before you cast your spammable. You could opt for Scorch instead of course but that only gives you 3 seconds of main spammable time while Arctic Blast gives you 5 allowing you to cast your main spammable 2 more times before going to your back bar to restart your skill cycle.

fire costs less, does more damage to burning enemies regardless and gains benefit from engulfing and encratis in group allowing it to do even more. it also doesn't immobilise enemies making them harder to group up for the boss, sure it provides a shield but it's also not necessary either. you could just have more damage. it's still a no-brainer. unstable wall of frost should be reworked to have a dps focus. frost blockade is fine though. trust me, i've been up to date with all of this stuff for a long time. they forgot to update the pts tooltip back in markarth so it still stated that it did less even though we badgered them on pts to change it, they then changed it to cost more. additionally, arctic blast is an awful pve skill in it's current state. you don't want to spam a skill that costs 4k every 5 seconds. it's a dps loss and a colossal sustain hemorrhage.

I don’t get the hate for Arctic Blast. You shouldn’t spam it for sure but I use it in my rotation and I have no issues with sustain. It’s a little pricey sure but most Dots are. Maybe they could half it’s cost for one of the morphs. Have Arctic Blast cost less while Polar Wind keeps its cost but heals for more or something like that. Personally, I feel this skill should scale with highest stats. So Stamden’s can make use of the Glacial Presence passive easier.

Arctic Blast literally just isn't worth it over any other viable skill you could consider because it's too expensive and has far too short of a duration to be worthwhile.

But it’s better than Shalks in a rotation in my experience. You get 2 more seconds to we’ve in 2 LA and 2 Spammables. Arctic Blast on my toon deals 2k per tick plus I have 100% more Crit Damage and 65% Crit Chance. This means I deal 10k over the duration for AB alone, and that’s if it does not Crit. Now add in the LA and Spammable. LA hit for about 5k and Frost Reach for about 8k if the don’t Crit. Now multiply that by 6 for LA and 5 for Reach. Due to 6 chances to weave during Arctic Blasts pulse. This is 30k for LA and 40k for Reach if nothing crits. Add in the 10k from Arctic Blast. 80k over 5 Seconds.
Shalks in the other hand only gives you 3 seconds which either means you lose out on 10K LA and 16k Reach before you switch to back bar or you cast it twice once before and once after which makes up for the 2 missing LA and Reach. Resulting in similar overall DPS. The difference between the rotations is negligible. Shalks has a range advantage sure but the range on AB is further than it looks and it also gives you more chances to proc brittle and chilled.

Compared to Arctic Blast, Deep Fissure has 40% less lost, 33% more damage, better range, delayed burst and ends sooner, 2% all Damage Done passive, AoE Major Breach.... you can also use the Sub Assault morph for even more damage+no mag cost.

Arctic Blast is terrible atm unfortunately. They need to fully rework that morph.

FYI if you are providing minor brittle for the group then you have many other ways to go about that.

yeah it's really surprising to hear that swarm thinks arctic is better when it's so clearly inferior that no-one ever considers it.

Not trying to make a case that Arctic is better. I hope that I wasn’t coming coming across that way. I was merely pointing out its pros and it’s viability. Viable does not have to mean optimal. And in my parses (I confess I’m no pro) the damage does go to Scorch but not by much due to the extra LA and Reach making up. I dunno maybe I’m parsing inefficiently but I don’t think 40k parse is terrible on an unoptimised build.

If one skill cast gets you 10k damage over its duration, be it instant direct damage or longer duration, it's not worth casting for dps rotation.

MindOfTheSwarm

Naftal wrote: »

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

Don’t forget though. Your non-Frost skills benefit from 2 of the 3 bonuses resulting in 6% more damage for all non-Frost skills. I am half done with my Tzogvin test as I need some more Magicka Enhants in my armor and I’ve already noticed a 5k DPS increase.

even still it doesn't beat some of the other good sets only because you just can't build full frost. it's unreasonable to attempt to do so because zenimax hasn't given us enough realistic options. frost reach and winter's revenge are the only good options we have. even unstable wall of frost is still worse than unstable wall of fire.

How so? Unstable Wall only costs more. That damage nerf was redacted. It’s also a very good AOE spammable as it does it’s first tick as well as it’s explosion damage. Making it very good for clearing adds. It’s better than Impulse which is kinda weird since Impulse should be doing that job. Also Arctic Blast does respectable damage for it’s duration. Just activate it before you cast your spammable. You could opt for Scorch instead of course but that only gives you 3 seconds of main spammable time while Arctic Blast gives you 5 allowing you to cast your main spammable 2 more times before going to your back bar to restart your skill cycle.

fire costs less, does more damage to burning enemies regardless and gains benefit from engulfing and encratis in group allowing it to do even more. it also doesn't immobilise enemies making them harder to group up for the boss, sure it provides a shield but it's also not necessary either. you could just have more damage. it's still a no-brainer. unstable wall of frost should be reworked to have a dps focus. frost blockade is fine though. trust me, i've been up to date with all of this stuff for a long time. they forgot to update the pts tooltip back in markarth so it still stated that it did less even though we badgered them on pts to change it, they then changed it to cost more. additionally, arctic blast is an awful pve skill in it's current state. you don't want to spam a skill that costs 4k every 5 seconds. it's a dps loss and a colossal sustain hemorrhage.

I don’t get the hate for Arctic Blast. You shouldn’t spam it for sure but I use it in my rotation and I have no issues with sustain. It’s a little pricey sure but most Dots are. Maybe they could half it’s cost for one of the morphs. Have Arctic Blast cost less while Polar Wind keeps its cost but heals for more or something like that. Personally, I feel this skill should scale with highest stats. So Stamden’s can make use of the Glacial Presence passive easier.

Arctic Blast literally just isn't worth it over any other viable skill you could consider because it's too expensive and has far too short of a duration to be worthwhile.

But it’s better than Shalks in a rotation in my experience. You get 2 more seconds to we’ve in 2 LA and 2 Spammables. Arctic Blast on my toon deals 2k per tick plus I have 100% more Crit Damage and 65% Crit Chance. This means I deal 10k over the duration for AB alone, and that’s if it does not Crit. Now add in the LA and Spammable. LA hit for about 5k and Frost Reach for about 8k if the don’t Crit. Now multiply that by 6 for LA and 5 for Reach. Due to 6 chances to weave during Arctic Blasts pulse. This is 30k for LA and 40k for Reach if nothing crits. Add in the 10k from Arctic Blast. 80k over 5 Seconds.
Shalks in the other hand only gives you 3 seconds which either means you lose out on 10K LA and 16k Reach before you switch to back bar or you cast it twice once before and once after which makes up for the 2 missing LA and Reach. Resulting in similar overall DPS. The difference between the rotations is negligible. Shalks has a range advantage sure but the range on AB is further than it looks and it also gives you more chances to proc brittle and chilled.

Compared to Arctic Blast, Deep Fissure has 40% less lost, 33% more damage, better range, delayed burst and ends sooner, 2% all Damage Done passive, AoE Major Breach.... you can also use the Sub Assault morph for even more damage+no mag cost.

Arctic Blast is terrible atm unfortunately. They need to fully rework that morph.

FYI if you are providing minor brittle for the group then you have many other ways to go about that.

yeah it's really surprising to hear that swarm thinks arctic is better when it's so clearly inferior that no-one ever considers it.

Not trying to make a case that Arctic is better. I hope that I wasn’t coming coming across that way. I was merely pointing out its pros and it’s viability. Viable does not have to mean optimal. And in my parses (I confess I’m no pro) the damage does go to Scorch but not by much due to the extra LA and Reach making up. I dunno maybe I’m parsing inefficiently but I don’t think 40k parse is terrible on an unoptimised build.

If one skill cast gets you 10k damage over its duration, be it instant direct damage or longer duration, it's not worth casting for dps rotation.

If that’s the case, then why do people run Wall of Elements? Didn’t you note that I mentioned IF it NEVER crits. Which of course it does. Let’s take a closer look.
So Arctic Blast ticks five times for 435 damage at base. Now multiply that by 5, for 2175.
Now compare that with Deep Fissure which deals 3240 damage at base over 3 seconds. So yes, clearly Fissure is superior of outright DPS. But the. Let’s say you have 100% Critical Damage at say 60% Crit Chance. Now of course if Fissure crits then it wins hands down. However, if it does not crit then the comparison becomes blurry due to DoT’s having a chance to crit in every tick. If Arctic Blast crits on two of its ticks then the damage is on par with a non-Crit Fissure. If it crits anymore then of course it’s damage will be more. So the question is, not which of the two does more damage at base or on crit. But is the cost benefit ratio of risking all of your damage not critting worth it? My case is that with a high critical chance rating if your first tick does not crit its highly likely that most if not all other will. Yes the same can be said for Fissure, but if it doesn’t you lose all of that potential crit damage on that cast. However, I do think Arctic Blast needs either: a. A duration increase to about 7 seconds. Or b. A cost reduction.
This isn’t even going into its PvP utility, as it’s a good self heal even on a DPS spec and is very good at disrupting ball groups.

MindOfTheSwarm

I do agree with the comment about Unstable Wall however. This is a confused skill. And I agree that the morphs need to be split up. Yet, this creates a problem for Fire Blockade and Shock Blockade. If Blockade is meant for tanks, how are these two versions of the ability ever going to see use? Unstable for Fire and Shock are ok and arguably Blockade is good for Frost. I think Blockade needs a closer look as a duration thing alone doesn’t make it worth it, outside of a minor sustain advantage. Personally I think Blockade should simply deal more damage per DoT tick, while unstable keeps the higher burst. As for Frost and it’s split role, I’m not sure. I think removing its ability to immobilise altogether would be the best move. Then maybe add in a “more damage vs chilled targets” modifier on both morphs. Unstable could have an extra “explosion deals further damage against targets afflicted with Minor Brittle”. This way both morphs can be used on all elements. While tanks can continue to use the Frost version for the shields albeit at a higher skill cost. Which is fine.

Vaoh

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

Naftal wrote: »

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

Don’t forget though. Your non-Frost skills benefit from 2 of the 3 bonuses resulting in 6% more damage for all non-Frost skills. I am half done with my Tzogvin test as I need some more Magicka Enhants in my armor and I’ve already noticed a 5k DPS increase.

even still it doesn't beat some of the other good sets only because you just can't build full frost. it's unreasonable to attempt to do so because zenimax hasn't given us enough realistic options. frost reach and winter's revenge are the only good options we have. even unstable wall of frost is still worse than unstable wall of fire.

How so? Unstable Wall only costs more. That damage nerf was redacted. It’s also a very good AOE spammable as it does it’s first tick as well as it’s explosion damage. Making it very good for clearing adds. It’s better than Impulse which is kinda weird since Impulse should be doing that job. Also Arctic Blast does respectable damage for it’s duration. Just activate it before you cast your spammable. You could opt for Scorch instead of course but that only gives you 3 seconds of main spammable time while Arctic Blast gives you 5 allowing you to cast your main spammable 2 more times before going to your back bar to restart your skill cycle.

fire costs less, does more damage to burning enemies regardless and gains benefit from engulfing and encratis in group allowing it to do even more. it also doesn't immobilise enemies making them harder to group up for the boss, sure it provides a shield but it's also not necessary either. you could just have more damage. it's still a no-brainer. unstable wall of frost should be reworked to have a dps focus. frost blockade is fine though. trust me, i've been up to date with all of this stuff for a long time. they forgot to update the pts tooltip back in markarth so it still stated that it did less even though we badgered them on pts to change it, they then changed it to cost more. additionally, arctic blast is an awful pve skill in it's current state. you don't want to spam a skill that costs 4k every 5 seconds. it's a dps loss and a colossal sustain hemorrhage.

I don’t get the hate for Arctic Blast. You shouldn’t spam it for sure but I use it in my rotation and I have no issues with sustain. It’s a little pricey sure but most Dots are. Maybe they could half it’s cost for one of the morphs. Have Arctic Blast cost less while Polar Wind keeps its cost but heals for more or something like that. Personally, I feel this skill should scale with highest stats. So Stamden’s can make use of the Glacial Presence passive easier.

Arctic Blast literally just isn't worth it over any other viable skill you could consider because it's too expensive and has far too short of a duration to be worthwhile.

But it’s better than Shalks in a rotation in my experience. You get 2 more seconds to we’ve in 2 LA and 2 Spammables. Arctic Blast on my toon deals 2k per tick plus I have 100% more Crit Damage and 65% Crit Chance. This means I deal 10k over the duration for AB alone, and that’s if it does not Crit. Now add in the LA and Spammable. LA hit for about 5k and Frost Reach for about 8k if the don’t Crit. Now multiply that by 6 for LA and 5 for Reach. Due to 6 chances to weave during Arctic Blasts pulse. This is 30k for LA and 40k for Reach if nothing crits. Add in the 10k from Arctic Blast. 80k over 5 Seconds.
Shalks in the other hand only gives you 3 seconds which either means you lose out on 10K LA and 16k Reach before you switch to back bar or you cast it twice once before and once after which makes up for the 2 missing LA and Reach. Resulting in similar overall DPS. The difference between the rotations is negligible. Shalks has a range advantage sure but the range on AB is further than it looks and it also gives you more chances to proc brittle and chilled.

Compared to Arctic Blast, Deep Fissure has 40% less lost, 33% more damage, better range, delayed burst and ends sooner, 2% all Damage Done passive, AoE Major Breach.... you can also use the Sub Assault morph for even more damage+no mag cost.

Arctic Blast is terrible atm unfortunately. They need to fully rework that morph.

FYI if you are providing minor brittle for the group then you have many other ways to go about that.

yeah it's really surprising to hear that swarm thinks arctic is better when it's so clearly inferior that no-one ever considers it.

Not trying to make a case that Arctic is better. I hope that I wasn’t coming coming across that way. I was merely pointing out its pros and it’s viability. Viable does not have to mean optimal. And in my parses (I confess I’m no pro) the damage does go to Scorch but not by much due to the extra LA and Reach making up. I dunno maybe I’m parsing inefficiently but I don’t think 40k parse is terrible on an unoptimised build.

If one skill cast gets you 10k damage over its duration, be it instant direct damage or longer duration, it's not worth casting for dps rotation.

If that’s the case, then why do people run Wall of Elements? Didn’t you note that I mentioned IF it NEVER crits. Which of course it does. Let’s take a closer look.
So Arctic Blast ticks five times for 435 damage at base. Now multiply that by 5, for 2175.
Now compare that with Deep Fissure which deals 3240 damage at base over 3 seconds. So yes, clearly Fissure is superior of outright DPS. But the. Let’s say you have 100% Critical Damage at say 60% Crit Chance. Now of course if Fissure crits then it wins hands down. However, if it does not crit then the comparison becomes blurry due to DoT’s having a chance to crit in every tick. If Arctic Blast crits on two of its ticks then the damage is on par with a non-Crit Fissure. If it crits anymore then of course it’s damage will be more. So the question is, not which of the two does more damage at base or on crit. But is the cost benefit ratio of risking all of your damage not critting worth it? My case is that with a high critical chance rating if your first tick does not crit its highly likely that most if not all other will. Yes the same can be said for Fissure, but if it doesn’t you lose all of that potential crit damage on that cast. However, I do think Arctic Blast needs either: a. A duration increase to about 7 seconds. Or b. A cost reduction.
This isn’t even going into its PvP utility, as it’s a good self heal even on a DPS spec and is very good at disrupting ball groups.

Ok so we’re talking about DPS right?

Healing and stun doesnt matter. In fact the stun is bad when tank needs to chain adds. Unstable Wall has good damage (especially flame wall), big AoE, and procs the Maelstrom Destruction Staff which nearly all Mag DPS use....

Tooltip Damage on my PvE Magicka Warden rn... for comparison’s sake:
• Winter’s Revenge: 28457
• Unstable Wall of Frost: 19274
• Mystic Orb: 16710
• Scalding Rune: 16002
• Fetcher Infection: 14136
• Deep Fissure: 11826
• Screaming Cliff Racer: 8486
• Razor Caltrops: 8162
• Arctic Blast: 7945

Every skill has a “power budget”. The more effects it has, the weaker each individual effect gets. Hence it has weak damage because it has damage, healing, and stunning all at once.

People want the Arctic Blast morph to at the very least drop the healing portion so that it can be buffed in other areas.

MindOfTheSwarm

Why is your tooltip so low? Mine is 2040 per tick.

ESO_Nightingale

Vaoh wrote: »

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

Naftal wrote: »

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

Don’t forget though. Your non-Frost skills benefit from 2 of the 3 bonuses resulting in 6% more damage for all non-Frost skills. I am half done with my Tzogvin test as I need some more Magicka Enhants in my armor and I’ve already noticed a 5k DPS increase.

even still it doesn't beat some of the other good sets only because you just can't build full frost. it's unreasonable to attempt to do so because zenimax hasn't given us enough realistic options. frost reach and winter's revenge are the only good options we have. even unstable wall of frost is still worse than unstable wall of fire.

How so? Unstable Wall only costs more. That damage nerf was redacted. It’s also a very good AOE spammable as it does it’s first tick as well as it’s explosion damage. Making it very good for clearing adds. It’s better than Impulse which is kinda weird since Impulse should be doing that job. Also Arctic Blast does respectable damage for it’s duration. Just activate it before you cast your spammable. You could opt for Scorch instead of course but that only gives you 3 seconds of main spammable time while Arctic Blast gives you 5 allowing you to cast your main spammable 2 more times before going to your back bar to restart your skill cycle.

fire costs less, does more damage to burning enemies regardless and gains benefit from engulfing and encratis in group allowing it to do even more. it also doesn't immobilise enemies making them harder to group up for the boss, sure it provides a shield but it's also not necessary either. you could just have more damage. it's still a no-brainer. unstable wall of frost should be reworked to have a dps focus. frost blockade is fine though. trust me, i've been up to date with all of this stuff for a long time. they forgot to update the pts tooltip back in markarth so it still stated that it did less even though we badgered them on pts to change it, they then changed it to cost more. additionally, arctic blast is an awful pve skill in it's current state. you don't want to spam a skill that costs 4k every 5 seconds. it's a dps loss and a colossal sustain hemorrhage.

I don’t get the hate for Arctic Blast. You shouldn’t spam it for sure but I use it in my rotation and I have no issues with sustain. It’s a little pricey sure but most Dots are. Maybe they could half it’s cost for one of the morphs. Have Arctic Blast cost less while Polar Wind keeps its cost but heals for more or something like that. Personally, I feel this skill should scale with highest stats. So Stamden’s can make use of the Glacial Presence passive easier.

Arctic Blast literally just isn't worth it over any other viable skill you could consider because it's too expensive and has far too short of a duration to be worthwhile.

But it’s better than Shalks in a rotation in my experience. You get 2 more seconds to we’ve in 2 LA and 2 Spammables. Arctic Blast on my toon deals 2k per tick plus I have 100% more Crit Damage and 65% Crit Chance. This means I deal 10k over the duration for AB alone, and that’s if it does not Crit. Now add in the LA and Spammable. LA hit for about 5k and Frost Reach for about 8k if the don’t Crit. Now multiply that by 6 for LA and 5 for Reach. Due to 6 chances to weave during Arctic Blasts pulse. This is 30k for LA and 40k for Reach if nothing crits. Add in the 10k from Arctic Blast. 80k over 5 Seconds.
Shalks in the other hand only gives you 3 seconds which either means you lose out on 10K LA and 16k Reach before you switch to back bar or you cast it twice once before and once after which makes up for the 2 missing LA and Reach. Resulting in similar overall DPS. The difference between the rotations is negligible. Shalks has a range advantage sure but the range on AB is further than it looks and it also gives you more chances to proc brittle and chilled.

Compared to Arctic Blast, Deep Fissure has 40% less lost, 33% more damage, better range, delayed burst and ends sooner, 2% all Damage Done passive, AoE Major Breach.... you can also use the Sub Assault morph for even more damage+no mag cost.

Arctic Blast is terrible atm unfortunately. They need to fully rework that morph.

FYI if you are providing minor brittle for the group then you have many other ways to go about that.

yeah it's really surprising to hear that swarm thinks arctic is better when it's so clearly inferior that no-one ever considers it.

Not trying to make a case that Arctic is better. I hope that I wasn’t coming coming across that way. I was merely pointing out its pros and it’s viability. Viable does not have to mean optimal. And in my parses (I confess I’m no pro) the damage does go to Scorch but not by much due to the extra LA and Reach making up. I dunno maybe I’m parsing inefficiently but I don’t think 40k parse is terrible on an unoptimised build.

If one skill cast gets you 10k damage over its duration, be it instant direct damage or longer duration, it's not worth casting for dps rotation.

If that’s the case, then why do people run Wall of Elements? Didn’t you note that I mentioned IF it NEVER crits. Which of course it does. Let’s take a closer look.
So Arctic Blast ticks five times for 435 damage at base. Now multiply that by 5, for 2175.
Now compare that with Deep Fissure which deals 3240 damage at base over 3 seconds. So yes, clearly Fissure is superior of outright DPS. But the. Let’s say you have 100% Critical Damage at say 60% Crit Chance. Now of course if Fissure crits then it wins hands down. However, if it does not crit then the comparison becomes blurry due to DoT’s having a chance to crit in every tick. If Arctic Blast crits on two of its ticks then the damage is on par with a non-Crit Fissure. If it crits anymore then of course it’s damage will be more. So the question is, not which of the two does more damage at base or on crit. But is the cost benefit ratio of risking all of your damage not critting worth it? My case is that with a high critical chance rating if your first tick does not crit its highly likely that most if not all other will. Yes the same can be said for Fissure, but if it doesn’t you lose all of that potential crit damage on that cast. However, I do think Arctic Blast needs either: a. A duration increase to about 7 seconds. Or b. A cost reduction.
This isn’t even going into its PvP utility, as it’s a good self heal even on a DPS spec and is very good at disrupting ball groups.

Ok so we’re talking about DPS right?

Healing and stun doesnt matter. In fact the stun is bad when tank needs to chain adds. Unstable Wall has good damage (especially flame wall), big AoE, and procs the Maelstrom Destruction Staff which nearly all Mag DPS use....

Tooltip Damage on my PvE Magicka Warden rn... for comparison’s sake:
• Winter’s Revenge: 28457
• Unstable Wall of Frost: 19274
• Mystic Orb: 16710
• Scalding Rune: 16002
• Fetcher Infection: 14136
• Deep Fissure: 11826
• Screaming Cliff Racer: 8486
• Razor Caltrops: 8162
• Arctic Blast: 7945

Every skill has a “power budget”. The more effects it has, the weaker each individual effect gets. Hence it has weak damage because it has damage, healing, and stunning all at once.

People want the Arctic Blast morph to at the very least drop the healing portion so that it can be buffed in other areas.

the stun actually does matter for pvp. but not in it's current state. it's too unpredictable and slow as is to truely be an effective magicka warden stun, sure some people can use it, but enemies can move out of its limited rage before being stunned, meaning you have to stay in very close range in order to get the best use out of it. This works fine for stamdens, but not quite as well for magicka warden which actually needs stun options. In the past we had always used a ranged stun that goes to our target in some form until zenimax got rid of our last real option on vampiric drain. Blast should retain its stun, but instead of a delayed tick-based aoe, it should be a ranged and aimable stun. this will also help us a little bit with survivability as well which as everyone knows, magicka warden is genuinely awful at now.

Vaoh

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

Naftal wrote: »

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

Don’t forget though. Your non-Frost skills benefit from 2 of the 3 bonuses resulting in 6% more damage for all non-Frost skills. I am half done with my Tzogvin test as I need some more Magicka Enhants in my armor and I’ve already noticed a 5k DPS increase.

even still it doesn't beat some of the other good sets only because you just can't build full frost. it's unreasonable to attempt to do so because zenimax hasn't given us enough realistic options. frost reach and winter's revenge are the only good options we have. even unstable wall of frost is still worse than unstable wall of fire.

How so? Unstable Wall only costs more. That damage nerf was redacted. It’s also a very good AOE spammable as it does it’s first tick as well as it’s explosion damage. Making it very good for clearing adds. It’s better than Impulse which is kinda weird since Impulse should be doing that job. Also Arctic Blast does respectable damage for it’s duration. Just activate it before you cast your spammable. You could opt for Scorch instead of course but that only gives you 3 seconds of main spammable time while Arctic Blast gives you 5 allowing you to cast your main spammable 2 more times before going to your back bar to restart your skill cycle.

fire costs less, does more damage to burning enemies regardless and gains benefit from engulfing and encratis in group allowing it to do even more. it also doesn't immobilise enemies making them harder to group up for the boss, sure it provides a shield but it's also not necessary either. you could just have more damage. it's still a no-brainer. unstable wall of frost should be reworked to have a dps focus. frost blockade is fine though. trust me, i've been up to date with all of this stuff for a long time. they forgot to update the pts tooltip back in markarth so it still stated that it did less even though we badgered them on pts to change it, they then changed it to cost more. additionally, arctic blast is an awful pve skill in it's current state. you don't want to spam a skill that costs 4k every 5 seconds. it's a dps loss and a colossal sustain hemorrhage.

I don’t get the hate for Arctic Blast. You shouldn’t spam it for sure but I use it in my rotation and I have no issues with sustain. It’s a little pricey sure but most Dots are. Maybe they could half it’s cost for one of the morphs. Have Arctic Blast cost less while Polar Wind keeps its cost but heals for more or something like that. Personally, I feel this skill should scale with highest stats. So Stamden’s can make use of the Glacial Presence passive easier.

Arctic Blast literally just isn't worth it over any other viable skill you could consider because it's too expensive and has far too short of a duration to be worthwhile.

But it’s better than Shalks in a rotation in my experience. You get 2 more seconds to we’ve in 2 LA and 2 Spammables. Arctic Blast on my toon deals 2k per tick plus I have 100% more Crit Damage and 65% Crit Chance. This means I deal 10k over the duration for AB alone, and that’s if it does not Crit. Now add in the LA and Spammable. LA hit for about 5k and Frost Reach for about 8k if the don’t Crit. Now multiply that by 6 for LA and 5 for Reach. Due to 6 chances to weave during Arctic Blasts pulse. This is 30k for LA and 40k for Reach if nothing crits. Add in the 10k from Arctic Blast. 80k over 5 Seconds.
Shalks in the other hand only gives you 3 seconds which either means you lose out on 10K LA and 16k Reach before you switch to back bar or you cast it twice once before and once after which makes up for the 2 missing LA and Reach. Resulting in similar overall DPS. The difference between the rotations is negligible. Shalks has a range advantage sure but the range on AB is further than it looks and it also gives you more chances to proc brittle and chilled.

Compared to Arctic Blast, Deep Fissure has 40% less lost, 33% more damage, better range, delayed burst and ends sooner, 2% all Damage Done passive, AoE Major Breach.... you can also use the Sub Assault morph for even more damage+no mag cost.

Arctic Blast is terrible atm unfortunately. They need to fully rework that morph.

FYI if you are providing minor brittle for the group then you have many other ways to go about that.

yeah it's really surprising to hear that swarm thinks arctic is better when it's so clearly inferior that no-one ever considers it.

Not trying to make a case that Arctic is better. I hope that I wasn’t coming coming across that way. I was merely pointing out its pros and it’s viability. Viable does not have to mean optimal. And in my parses (I confess I’m no pro) the damage does go to Scorch but not by much due to the extra LA and Reach making up. I dunno maybe I’m parsing inefficiently but I don’t think 40k parse is terrible on an unoptimised build.

If one skill cast gets you 10k damage over its duration, be it instant direct damage or longer duration, it's not worth casting for dps rotation.

If that’s the case, then why do people run Wall of Elements? Didn’t you note that I mentioned IF it NEVER crits. Which of course it does. Let’s take a closer look.
So Arctic Blast ticks five times for 435 damage at base. Now multiply that by 5, for 2175.
Now compare that with Deep Fissure which deals 3240 damage at base over 3 seconds. So yes, clearly Fissure is superior of outright DPS. But the. Let’s say you have 100% Critical Damage at say 60% Crit Chance. Now of course if Fissure crits then it wins hands down. However, if it does not crit then the comparison becomes blurry due to DoT’s having a chance to crit in every tick. If Arctic Blast crits on two of its ticks then the damage is on par with a non-Crit Fissure. If it crits anymore then of course it’s damage will be more. So the question is, not which of the two does more damage at base or on crit. But is the cost benefit ratio of risking all of your damage not critting worth it? My case is that with a high critical chance rating if your first tick does not crit its highly likely that most if not all other will. Yes the same can be said for Fissure, but if it doesn’t you lose all of that potential crit damage on that cast. However, I do think Arctic Blast needs either: a. A duration increase to about 7 seconds. Or b. A cost reduction.
This isn’t even going into its PvP utility, as it’s a good self heal even on a DPS spec and is very good at disrupting ball groups.

Ok so we’re talking about DPS right?

Healing and stun doesnt matter. In fact the stun is bad when tank needs to chain adds. Unstable Wall has good damage (especially flame wall), big AoE, and procs the Maelstrom Destruction Staff which nearly all Mag DPS use....

Tooltip Damage on my PvE Magicka Warden rn... for comparison’s sake:
• Winter’s Revenge: 28457
• Unstable Wall of Frost: 19274
• Mystic Orb: 16710
• Scalding Rune: 16002
• Fetcher Infection: 14136
• Deep Fissure: 11826
• Screaming Cliff Racer: 8486
• Razor Caltrops: 8162
• Arctic Blast: 7945

Every skill has a “power budget”. The more effects it has, the weaker each individual effect gets. Hence it has weak damage because it has damage, healing, and stunning all at once.

People want the Arctic Blast morph to at the very least drop the healing portion so that it can be buffed in other areas.

the stun actually does matter for pvp. but not in it's current state. it's too unpredictable and slow as is to truely be an effective magicka warden stun, sure some people can use it, but enemies can move out of its limited rage before being stunned, meaning you have to stay in very close range in order to get the best use out of it. This works fine for stamdens, but not quite as well for magicka warden which actually needs stun options. In the past we had always used a ranged stun that goes to our target in some form until zenimax got rid of our last real option on vampiric drain. Blast should retain its stun, but instead of a delayed tick-based aoe, it should be a ranged and aimable stun. this will also help us a little bit with survivability as well which as everyone knows, magicka warden is genuinely awful at now.

I shouldve specified but I was talking for PvE since I’m trying to help him understand the skill is terrible damage-wise.

ESO_Nightingale

Vaoh wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

Naftal wrote: »

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

Don’t forget though. Your non-Frost skills benefit from 2 of the 3 bonuses resulting in 6% more damage for all non-Frost skills. I am half done with my Tzogvin test as I need some more Magicka Enhants in my armor and I’ve already noticed a 5k DPS increase.

even still it doesn't beat some of the other good sets only because you just can't build full frost. it's unreasonable to attempt to do so because zenimax hasn't given us enough realistic options. frost reach and winter's revenge are the only good options we have. even unstable wall of frost is still worse than unstable wall of fire.

How so? Unstable Wall only costs more. That damage nerf was redacted. It’s also a very good AOE spammable as it does it’s first tick as well as it’s explosion damage. Making it very good for clearing adds. It’s better than Impulse which is kinda weird since Impulse should be doing that job. Also Arctic Blast does respectable damage for it’s duration. Just activate it before you cast your spammable. You could opt for Scorch instead of course but that only gives you 3 seconds of main spammable time while Arctic Blast gives you 5 allowing you to cast your main spammable 2 more times before going to your back bar to restart your skill cycle.

fire costs less, does more damage to burning enemies regardless and gains benefit from engulfing and encratis in group allowing it to do even more. it also doesn't immobilise enemies making them harder to group up for the boss, sure it provides a shield but it's also not necessary either. you could just have more damage. it's still a no-brainer. unstable wall of frost should be reworked to have a dps focus. frost blockade is fine though. trust me, i've been up to date with all of this stuff for a long time. they forgot to update the pts tooltip back in markarth so it still stated that it did less even though we badgered them on pts to change it, they then changed it to cost more. additionally, arctic blast is an awful pve skill in it's current state. you don't want to spam a skill that costs 4k every 5 seconds. it's a dps loss and a colossal sustain hemorrhage.

I don’t get the hate for Arctic Blast. You shouldn’t spam it for sure but I use it in my rotation and I have no issues with sustain. It’s a little pricey sure but most Dots are. Maybe they could half it’s cost for one of the morphs. Have Arctic Blast cost less while Polar Wind keeps its cost but heals for more or something like that. Personally, I feel this skill should scale with highest stats. So Stamden’s can make use of the Glacial Presence passive easier.

Arctic Blast literally just isn't worth it over any other viable skill you could consider because it's too expensive and has far too short of a duration to be worthwhile.

But it’s better than Shalks in a rotation in my experience. You get 2 more seconds to we’ve in 2 LA and 2 Spammables. Arctic Blast on my toon deals 2k per tick plus I have 100% more Crit Damage and 65% Crit Chance. This means I deal 10k over the duration for AB alone, and that’s if it does not Crit. Now add in the LA and Spammable. LA hit for about 5k and Frost Reach for about 8k if the don’t Crit. Now multiply that by 6 for LA and 5 for Reach. Due to 6 chances to weave during Arctic Blasts pulse. This is 30k for LA and 40k for Reach if nothing crits. Add in the 10k from Arctic Blast. 80k over 5 Seconds.
Shalks in the other hand only gives you 3 seconds which either means you lose out on 10K LA and 16k Reach before you switch to back bar or you cast it twice once before and once after which makes up for the 2 missing LA and Reach. Resulting in similar overall DPS. The difference between the rotations is negligible. Shalks has a range advantage sure but the range on AB is further than it looks and it also gives you more chances to proc brittle and chilled.

Compared to Arctic Blast, Deep Fissure has 40% less lost, 33% more damage, better range, delayed burst and ends sooner, 2% all Damage Done passive, AoE Major Breach.... you can also use the Sub Assault morph for even more damage+no mag cost.

Arctic Blast is terrible atm unfortunately. They need to fully rework that morph.

FYI if you are providing minor brittle for the group then you have many other ways to go about that.

yeah it's really surprising to hear that swarm thinks arctic is better when it's so clearly inferior that no-one ever considers it.

Not trying to make a case that Arctic is better. I hope that I wasn’t coming coming across that way. I was merely pointing out its pros and it’s viability. Viable does not have to mean optimal. And in my parses (I confess I’m no pro) the damage does go to Scorch but not by much due to the extra LA and Reach making up. I dunno maybe I’m parsing inefficiently but I don’t think 40k parse is terrible on an unoptimised build.

If one skill cast gets you 10k damage over its duration, be it instant direct damage or longer duration, it's not worth casting for dps rotation.

If that’s the case, then why do people run Wall of Elements? Didn’t you note that I mentioned IF it NEVER crits. Which of course it does. Let’s take a closer look.
So Arctic Blast ticks five times for 435 damage at base. Now multiply that by 5, for 2175.
Now compare that with Deep Fissure which deals 3240 damage at base over 3 seconds. So yes, clearly Fissure is superior of outright DPS. But the. Let’s say you have 100% Critical Damage at say 60% Crit Chance. Now of course if Fissure crits then it wins hands down. However, if it does not crit then the comparison becomes blurry due to DoT’s having a chance to crit in every tick. If Arctic Blast crits on two of its ticks then the damage is on par with a non-Crit Fissure. If it crits anymore then of course it’s damage will be more. So the question is, not which of the two does more damage at base or on crit. But is the cost benefit ratio of risking all of your damage not critting worth it? My case is that with a high critical chance rating if your first tick does not crit its highly likely that most if not all other will. Yes the same can be said for Fissure, but if it doesn’t you lose all of that potential crit damage on that cast. However, I do think Arctic Blast needs either: a. A duration increase to about 7 seconds. Or b. A cost reduction.
This isn’t even going into its PvP utility, as it’s a good self heal even on a DPS spec and is very good at disrupting ball groups.

Ok so we’re talking about DPS right?

Healing and stun doesnt matter. In fact the stun is bad when tank needs to chain adds. Unstable Wall has good damage (especially flame wall), big AoE, and procs the Maelstrom Destruction Staff which nearly all Mag DPS use....

Tooltip Damage on my PvE Magicka Warden rn... for comparison’s sake:
• Winter’s Revenge: 28457
• Unstable Wall of Frost: 19274
• Mystic Orb: 16710
• Scalding Rune: 16002
• Fetcher Infection: 14136
• Deep Fissure: 11826
• Screaming Cliff Racer: 8486
• Razor Caltrops: 8162
• Arctic Blast: 7945

Every skill has a “power budget”. The more effects it has, the weaker each individual effect gets. Hence it has weak damage because it has damage, healing, and stunning all at once.

People want the Arctic Blast morph to at the very least drop the healing portion so that it can be buffed in other areas.

the stun actually does matter for pvp. but not in it's current state. it's too unpredictable and slow as is to truely be an effective magicka warden stun, sure some people can use it, but enemies can move out of its limited rage before being stunned, meaning you have to stay in very close range in order to get the best use out of it. This works fine for stamdens, but not quite as well for magicka warden which actually needs stun options. In the past we had always used a ranged stun that goes to our target in some form until zenimax got rid of our last real option on vampiric drain. Blast should retain its stun, but instead of a delayed tick-based aoe, it should be a ranged and aimable stun. this will also help us a little bit with survivability as well which as everyone knows, magicka warden is genuinely awful at now.

I shouldve specified but I was talking for PvE since I’m trying to help him understand the skill is terrible damage-wise.

no problem, i suppose that paragraph may still help people who don't know the situation in pvp anyway.

Bl4ckR3alm93

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

Don’t forget though. Your non-Frost skills benefit from 2 of the 3 bonuses resulting in 6% more damage for all non-Frost skills. I am half done with my Tzogvin test as I need some more Magicka Enhants in my armor and I’ve already noticed a 5k DPS increase.

Try Frostbite with Bahsei and another option is Frostbite with Sul-Xan Torment. I think you'll like Frostbite and Sul-Xan Torment because Sul-Xan you'll get minor slayer plus Crit chance and crit damage ( can stack with minor force and major force ). You'll see a increase with your Warden skills and passives on top of that

ESO_Nightingale

Bl4ckR3alm93 wrote: »

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

Don’t forget though. Your non-Frost skills benefit from 2 of the 3 bonuses resulting in 6% more damage for all non-Frost skills. I am half done with my Tzogvin test as I need some more Magicka Enhants in my armor and I’ve already noticed a 5k DPS increase.

Try Frostbite with Bahsei and another option is Frostbite with Sul-Xan Torment. I think you'll like Frostbite and Sul-Xan Torment because Sul-Xan you'll get minor slayer plus Crit chance and crit damage ( can stack with minor force and major force ). You'll see a increase with your Warden skills and passives on top of that

Sul-xan is too reliant on killing something. It's good but really bad in some situations.