Light Attack Weaving +

Ermiq

I know many ESO players don't want it ever, but I 100% certain that I would enjoy combat way more in ESO if it had cooldowns on abilities similar to how it is done in Guild Wars 2 and New World. These 2 games both have a combat systems very similar to ESO, 2 weapon bars, light attacks, relatively small amount of active skills on the bars, but they have one major difference that changes it al: they have cooldowns, and that's what makes a lot of sense in terms of tactical and skillful gameplay that ESO doesn't have at all.
For a reference, here is a video where the guy compares ESO and New World combat systems, and I 100% agree with everything he's saying:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWHuqkXAli8

But we al know that it's just a dead horse. ZOS would never reform the combat. Sad but true.

Parasaurolophus

If you don't like LA, just don't do it. Seriously. LA is about 15-18% of the total DPS. That's a lot for pro raids. But you can't say that the game requires you to make light attacks so that you can complete the content. No. LA is a good element of personal skill for the player and it works fine.

Ksariyu

Brrrofski wrote: »

Why does someone every now and then come along and try to change the combat? It's been like it for 7 years. The combat in this game is what makes it fun. It's different to other games

Most "serious" or long term players of the game like the current system. So why does it need to change?

To make it easier for casual players? Casual players don't keep the game alive. That guy that logs on once a week and does three quests is not who we should be aiming to balance a game around.

And if you don't want to weave, don't. There's plenty of content that you can get away with not doing it.

No to taking away LA weaving
No to cooldwons
No to boring combat that 90% of other MMOs use (and have more actual content, so everyone would play them).

I'd guess the reason people always want to change the combat is because the combat is consistently singled out as the worst aspect of the game. Long term players are used to it, but in many ways the entire system plays counter to how you'd expect things to naturally work. However, that gets into other areas of the combat that I'm not really discussing here, as this is just aimed at LA weaving. Which, as I mentioned twice in the OP, I don't want to remove LA weaving. I think it has a place for certain builds, I just wish other playstyles were present. Even COD has more gameplay diversity than ESO right now.
I also never mentioned cooldowns, nor do I think anyone wants boring combat, subjective though that is.

ForeverJenn wrote: »

I do not understand what is so hard about hitting LA before your skill. It took 3 weeks of practice on my first dps to hit 100k. Light attacks are 15 percent of that. GCD doesn't allow for more than one skill in about 1 second. That's a longer time than you probably think. So why NOT light attack between that? Why do you want less dps than you are capable of if you just learn a rotation and understand the global cool down? This makes no sense.

I whole heartedly believe that 99 percent of people complaining about weaving [snip] have no clue about the global cool down. I also understand this is mostly on ZoS for doing a poor job on explaining this to players. But researching into it is about as easy as coming to the forums on a daily basis to complain about it. I just don't understand all the uproar and absolute misinformation on this topic.

You're correct, LA weaving is not hard. The GCD however is not entirely the issue here, it's the limited options players have for working around it. Read the "Why weaving is important" section of the OP. I understand WHY it's so prevalent. It's also boring, to me and to many other players. I'd actually love if players could do a bit more damage by using more diverse mechanics. As for your last sentence, if you find any actual misinformation in the OP, please let me know.

colossalvoids wrote: »

The only changes they're capable of were presented on some PTS patches before and it was godly awful ones and I'm glad we stayed where we are, it would be a total disaster and I don't trust current team enough to take another shot. The combat would evolve though, we see constant changes and it won't just stop one day.

I just wanted to address this particular part, because it brings up another important area I think ZOS could really improve, which is using the PTS more often. I know there were some pretty set opinions about their last test, but that doesn't mean they should stop trying. They tested something, got feedback, and it didn't go live. That's exactly what the PTS is for, and I wish they'd lean into that more heavily.

[edited to remove quote]

Ermiq

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

If you don't like LA, just don't do it. Seriously. LA is about 15-18% of the total DPS. That's a lot for pro raids. But you can't say that the game requires you to make light attacks so that you can complete the content. No. LA is a good element of personal skill for the player and it works fine.

The funny thing is - due to muscle memory - I cannot not doing it anymore. I just automatically click it all the time. Even when I cast EleDrain on enemies before the tank taunt the mobs, I still automatically click LA before the EleDrain. )
Also, why would I not use it if it's one the most significant part of my dps sheet and it also the significant part of my heal on main Warden character with the Blossom buff (every LA passively heals me and the others)?

Ksariyu

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

If you don't like LA, just don't do it. Seriously. LA is about 15-18% of the total DPS. That's a lot for pro raids. But you can't say that the game requires you to make light attacks so that you can complete the content. No. LA is a good element of personal skill for the player and it works fine.

Didn't see this for my last post so it gets its own.

As stated in my OP, I don't dislike LA weaving. It's a joke though to say that LA weaving is skill. It's literally two button presses at the same medium speed constantly. It's not particularly fast, it's not varied, and it requires little decision making beyond managing timers. The last point is even worse considering we use spammables to fill up time, which is basically just a two-press light attack now, so the decisions often aren't even taking place every GCD.

Kessra

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

If you don't like LA, just don't do it. Seriously. LA is about 15-18% of the total DPS. That's a lot for pro raids. But you can't say that the game requires you to make light attacks so that you can complete the content. No. LA is a good element of personal skill for the player and it works fine.

The problem with LA is that you should not only count the value presented by Light Attack of your parse but also include any buffs you obtained through light attacks and any additional damage enabled by light attacks like the spectral bow of nightblades or certan monster-set procs like Kjalnar's Nightmare. If you count all of that up, we are easily at a damage gain of 30-40%, if not more.

If you look at why people struggle to do good DPS then it usually boils down to the fact that they can't keep up their buffs or didn't design their skills/gear to get them the important buffs. Just look at the parses posted on the Internet. They usually have a heavily filled area of buffs they had during that fight. And plenty of which are obtained through light attacks. So just leaving them out will not reduce your damage by 15-18% but by plenty more.

MEBengalsFan2001

I am tired of seeing DPS trash talk other players in PVE content to get good. This is a cooperate game where the team succeeds or fail in PVE dungeons or trials. Talking trash doesn't help the other players.

Here are the damage issues player face that I see from my experience playing as a support role player .

Light attack weaving. I call light attack weaving clipping as that is the naming used in other games where it existed long before it became a normal accepted standard in ESO. Cancelling animation of ability or attack has been slowly weeded out in other games to improve the NEW PLAYER experience and to ensure that there is a smaller overall damage gap between NEW PLAYERS and experienced players.

Player Limitation: During one of my dungeon runs one DPS complained to the other DPS to get good. The other DPS responded, I'm trying my best here, I only have one hand to use here. To those that want to tell others to get good; well, sometimes players can't because of their physical limitation (missing an arm) and still want to enjoy a game like ESO but because they can't get good they miss out on some of a game better content due to them not being able to get good.

Gear: Many average players are at a disadvantage because they don't have gold gear, they don't use proper enchantments, they don't have the proper gear traits, they are using healing gear as DPS, using tanking gear, etc.. because the gear looks good or the info on the game sounds like it would be helpful to the player. This puts the average DPS player in ESO at a disadvantage compared to those who grind it out to get proper gear and ensure that their gear is all GOLD with proper enchantments and traits.

Rotations: Good players will spend hours on a sparring target to get their rotation down. That is something I have done plenty in other games when I played as a DPS, but your average player typically won't do this or doesn't have the time to do this. Getting the rotation down can ensure higher damage but simply using abilities at random will generate pretty bad damage.

Food/Potions: I've been in many Vet Dungeons Randoms where the player has under 20K HP and we to the first boss and ask them if they will eat their food. Sometimes the player is like my bad but quite often they state, what are you talking about. Many players only use what they can find for food or potions or they don't use either which impacts their sustain, health etc.. making content harder

If you combined the lack of food/potion, rotation and light attack weaving together this is where you will see a big difference in damage between an experienced player and one that is average or below average. Where one maybe hitting for 10K vs. one hitting for 70K+ DPS.

Removing Light Attack weaving won't resolve the gap difference but it would shrink it a bit. There is another side benefit and that is possible reduction in strain on the server, which may help reduce lag a little bit.

Tannus15

A lot of players really don't want to use both bars. Never mind light attack weaving, bar swapping is too much to ask.
Just look at how popular "one bar easy vMA build!" videos are.

A lot of people want higher dps, but they don't want to engage with the combat system. They just want to spam a single skill like jabs or a lightning staff heavy attack or spam light attacks on a bow.

Eiregirl

Tannus15 wrote: »

A lot of players really don't want to use both bars. Never mind light attack weaving, bar swapping is too much to ask.
Just look at how popular "one bar easy vMA build!" videos are.

A lot of people want higher dps, but they don't want to engage with the combat system. They just want to spam a single skill like jabs or a lightning staff heavy attack or spam light attacks on a bow.

The combat system should be fluid just like the skill system and the gear system, shouldn’t it?

There are many different skill and gear setups people can use and still produce roughly the same amount of damage so why should it be any different between LA rotations and HA rotations?

ZOS promoted the game before launch and has stated many many times over the years that The Elder Scrolls Online is a game where people can play how they want.

People claim that light attack weaving and animation canceling show more skill but it really does not it is just a faster style of game play that requires muscle memory from repeated actions just like a heavy attack rotation does. There is no huge amount of skill difference from learning a heavy attack rotation vs a light attack rotation because they both take repeated actions to learn. I will agree that LA weaving will take a little more time for some people to get use to and learn but it is still not a huge amount of time. I will also agree that a HA rotation is easier for most people to learn but still not a huge time gap from learning a LA rotation. Both of these rotations are based on timing and neither of these rotations is just spamming a light or heavy attack.

It is more or less a preference of how a person wants and enjoys playing the game and just because someone likes playing the game one way does not mean everyone should or even wants to play that same way.

The biggest argument between the two styles of play that many people have is the amount of damage a LA rotation has over a HA rotation and they want to reduce that disparity. I have no real problem with that since I have characters that play both styles and would like to see both styles of play be closer on damage output.

KaosWarMonk

Utilising animation cancelling is gaming the game. I don't really understand why it still exists in such a mature title.

Parasaurolophus

KaosWarMonk wrote: »

Utilising animation cancelling is gaming the game. I don't really understand why it still exists in such a mature title.

Cancellation of animations in the game has long been gone. All timings have been fixed. Today it is no longer possible to cast an ability faster through a skip. You can hide the animation, but not cast faster or more often as before.

KaosWarMonk

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

KaosWarMonk wrote: »

Utilising animation cancelling is gaming the game. I don't really understand why it still exists in such a mature title.

Cancellation of animations in the game has long been gone. All timings have been fixed. Today it is no longer possible to cast an ability faster through a skip. You can hide the animation, but not cast faster or more often as before.

Isn't that what light attack weaving is? (serious question)

katanagirl1

On PS5 now, I am able to do a skill rotation better than I ever could on PS4. I can actually see the light attacks now, don’t know if they really executed before. But the lag - still the skills go off so slow that even I have to slow down to make sure all skills go off. I have always had trouble with my rotation being too slow to get good dps. How can I get better in this situation?

Really, if the game can’t keep up with me and I have to slow down, that can’t be good. I am not sure global cooldowns should exist in this state. I am already unable to get skills to fire.

Kryptonite_Kent

katanagirl1 wrote: »

On PS5 now, I am able to do a skill rotation better than I ever could on PS4. I can actually see the light attacks now, don’t know if they really executed before. But the lag - still the skills go off so slow that even I have to slow down to make sure all skills go off. I have always had trouble with my rotation being too slow to get good dps. How can I get better in this situation?

Really, if the game can’t keep up with me and I have to slow down, that can’t be good. I am not sure global cooldowns should exist in this state. I am already unable to get skills to fire.

Its desync... PC has the same problem, your LA weave wont fire sometimes, or it will go bonkers and fire off a whole string of stuff after it sits there thinking for like 5 seconds lol

colossalvoids

katanagirl1 wrote: »

On PS5 now, I am able to do a skill rotation better than I ever could on PS4. I can actually see the light attacks now, don’t know if they really executed before. But the lag - still the skills go off so slow that even I have to slow down to make sure all skills go off. I have always had trouble with my rotation being too slow to get good dps. How can I get better in this situation?

It honestly depends on a delay you're having, but slowing down was a pretty common thing for years for people with high ping or ping spikes. Example being me, average ping was always facing around 100 and for at least a year I've raided with a 200-300 because of my country connection route to the eso servers.

Slowing down doesn't mean skipping global cooldown though, it's just being more precise with your rotation with no accidental double clicks of abilities, just steady heartbeat speed rotation. It never excluded me of any content or blocked my progress for harder achievements.

But if your connection isn't stable enough or ping if going way high 400-500+ it would be more problematic obviously.

Succuby

KaosWarMonk wrote: »

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

KaosWarMonk wrote: »

Utilising animation cancelling is gaming the game. I don't really understand why it still exists in such a mature title.

Cancellation of animations in the game has long been gone. All timings have been fixed. Today it is no longer possible to cast an ability faster through a skip. You can hide the animation, but not cast faster or more often as before.

Isn't that what light attack weaving is? (serious question)

I count it like skils have global call down and you put some thing between it.

As example it can be bash or LA+bash

MEBengalsFan2001

katanagirl1 wrote: »

On PS5 now, I am able to do a skill rotation better than I ever could on PS4. I can actually see the light attacks now, don’t know if they really executed before. But the lag - still the skills go off so slow that even I have to slow down to make sure all skills go off. I have always had trouble with my rotation being too slow to get good dps. How can I get better in this situation?

Really, if the game can’t keep up with me and I have to slow down, that can’t be good. I am not sure global cooldowns should exist in this state. I am already unable to get skills to fire.

Are you running the game in performance or visual mode? I recommend running in performance mode it greatly improve how the game runs. I rarely get lag and when I do everyone else is so laggy that I have to wait around for them to catch up.

Magio_

Tannus15 wrote: »

A lot of players really don't want to use both bars. Never mind light attack weaving, bar swapping is too much to ask.
Just look at how popular "one bar easy vMA build!" videos are.

A lot of people want higher dps, but they don't want to engage with the combat system. They just want to spam a single skill like jabs or a lightning staff heavy attack or spam light attacks on a bow.

To add to this, it's not a good idea to balance, or worse redesign the combat system to cater to such players.

LA weaving has been here for years and it will stay. Either learn to do it or look for a Heavy Attack build.

MEBengalsFan2001

Magio_ wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

A lot of players really don't want to use both bars. Never mind light attack weaving, bar swapping is too much to ask.
Just look at how popular "one bar easy vMA build!" videos are.

A lot of people want higher dps, but they don't want to engage with the combat system. They just want to spam a single skill like jabs or a lightning staff heavy attack or spam light attacks on a bow.

To add to this, it's not a good idea to balance, or worse redesign the combat system to cater to such players.

LA weaving has been here for years and it will stay. Either learn to do it or look for a Heavy Attack build.

Bar swapping can lag out or result in a player swapping back to the original bar not on purpose. Bar swapping has its benefits and those disadvantages which can be a major DPS loss. If you lose 2-3 seconds of damage and your averaging over 50K of DPS that is 100K+ of damage loss. Do that 10x during a boss fight and that becomes a million damage gone from lag. If the game isn't lagging than two bars should be the way to go.

Magio_

[snip] Or don't balance the game around players with bad internet connections.

[edited for baiting]

Charon_on_Vacation

well, for everyone that doesn't want to left click all the time, you can just macro it into your mouse buttons.
eso can not detect it, if its in your mouse software.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

I stopped reading at Cast Times. No thanks!

Merlin13KAGL

Medium attacks are what really got left in the lurch.

They're not as fast as LA's, so you lose the benefits there.

They're not full HA's so you lose the stat recovery benefits there.

If it changed to have less damage than a LA while having less recovery than a full HA, people would find a happy medium that might work for their situation.

It's the same argument it's always been. Those that are comfortable with it can't grasp why others have difficulty.

Brrrofski wrote: »

Why does someone every now and then come along and try to change the combat? It's been like it for 7 years. The combat in this game is what makes it fun. It's different to other games

Most "serious" or long term players of the game like the current system. So why does it need to change?

To make it easier for casual players? Casual players don't keep the game alive. That guy that logs on once a week and does three quests is not who we should be aiming to balance a game around.

And if you don't want to weave, don't. There's plenty of content that you can get away with not doing it.

No to taking away LA weaving
No to cooldwons
No to boring combat that 90% of other MMOs use (and have more actual content, so everyone would play them).

@Brrrofski They change combat in some form or fashion at least once a year. Your implication that anyone wanting any kind of middle ground can't possibly be a 'serious player' is ridiculous.

If you honestly think there are more hard cores than casual to mid tier in this game, IDK what to tell you. If that were really true, it would be Dark Souls tier difficulty, not ESO, and it's clearly nowhere close. Those overland difficulty increases would've been long approved, and 'normal' would still have a chance of handing you your ass, which is clearly does not.

There are plenty of other games out there that require much more precise timing and awareness without the need for some arbitrary rhythm to achieve the higher numbers. Spawns would be dynamic. Combat, as well. No more memorizing where something is going to land and have the tremendous gaps between poor AI attacks. No more burning something down before it's even properly stepped through the portal in the exact same place every single time.

The problem, seven years later, is the same as it always has been. They (Devs) can't figure out a good way to teach people, in game, and allow people to improve on what was originally nothing more than an unintended side effect.

LA's will likely always net you the highest DPS. Modifications to mediums and heavies would not take away your imaginary status you're so concerned about losing. You'd still be able to be top tier, fastest speed runs, highest scores.

Lack of medium benefit and inability to provide an in game tutorial with feedback is the problem. If the level up advisor tooltip was all it really took, this wouldn't even be a conversation.

ForeverJenn wrote: »

I do not understand what is so hard about hitting LA before your skill. It took 3 weeks of practice on my first dps to hit 100k. Light attacks are 15 percent of that. GCD doesn't allow for more than one skill in about 1 second. That's a longer time than you probably think. So why NOT light attack between that? Why do you want less dps than you are capable of if you just learn a rotation and understand the global cool down? This makes no sense.

I whole heartedly believe that 99 percent of people complaining about weaving [snip] have no clue about the global cool down. I also understand this is mostly on ZoS for doing a poor job on explaining this to players. But researching into it is about as easy as coming to the forums on a daily basis to complain about it. I just don't understand all the uproar and absolute misinformation on this topic.

@ForeverJenn 3 weeks and it 'clicked' for you. Congratulations.

Plenty of people know about the GCD and still can't weave consistently. Plenty of people are geared well, have played for years, and still don't break 100k.

Again, if it was just the 'knowing,' the level up tooltip would suddenly turn people into DPS machines. From many of the instances I've ran this past two weeks, I can assure you, it has not.

If it was truly as commonplace as it's made out to be, I'm fairly certain they'd be cranking up the overall difficulty to compensate. New player aside, knowing how to do it in theory and actually producing the results are the exact difference between the 'ceiling' and the 'floor.'

[edited to remove quote]

katanagirl1

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

On PS5 now, I am able to do a skill rotation better than I ever could on PS4. I can actually see the light attacks now, don’t know if they really executed before. But the lag - still the skills go off so slow that even I have to slow down to make sure all skills go off. I have always had trouble with my rotation being too slow to get good dps. How can I get better in this situation?

Really, if the game can’t keep up with me and I have to slow down, that can’t be good. I am not sure global cooldowns should exist in this state. I am already unable to get skills to fire.

Are you running the game in performance or visual mode? I recommend running in performance mode it greatly improve how the game runs. I rarely get lag and when I do everyone else is so laggy that I have to wait around for them to catch up.

I’m actually running the PS4 version right now, I didn’t hear if all the bugs for the enhanced version had been fixed. There is the other thing about having to redo the trophies again, too.

Brrrofski

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Medium attacks are what really got left in the lurch.

They're not as fast as LA's, so you lose the benefits there.

They're not full HA's so you lose the stat recovery benefits there.

If it changed to have less damage than a LA while having less recovery than a full HA, people would find a happy medium that might work for their situation.

It's the same argument it's always been. Those that are comfortable with it can't grasp why others have difficulty.

Brrrofski wrote: »

Why does someone every now and then come along and try to change the combat? It's been like it for 7 years. The combat in this game is what makes it fun. It's different to other games

Most "serious" or long term players of the game like the current system. So why does it need to change?

To make it easier for casual players? Casual players don't keep the game alive. That guy that logs on once a week and does three quests is not who we should be aiming to balance a game around.

And if you don't want to weave, don't. There's plenty of content that you can get away with not doing it.

No to taking away LA weaving
No to cooldwons
No to boring combat that 90% of other MMOs use (and have more actual content, so everyone would play them).

@Brrrofski They change combat in some form or fashion at least once a year. Your implication that anyone wanting any kind of middle ground can't possibly be a 'serious player' is ridiculous.

If you honestly think there are more hard cores than casual to mid tier in this game, IDK what to tell you. If that were really true, it would be Dark Souls tier difficulty, not ESO, and it's clearly nowhere close. Those overland difficulty increases would've been long approved, and 'normal' would still have a chance of handing you your ass, which is clearly does not.

There are plenty of other games out there that require much more precise timing and awareness without the need for some arbitrary rhythm to achieve the higher numbers. Spawns would be dynamic. Combat, as well. No more memorizing where something is going to land and have the tremendous gaps between poor AI attacks. No more burning something down before it's even properly stepped through the portal in the exact same place every single time.

The problem, seven years later, is the same as it always has been. They (Devs) can't figure out a good way to teach people, in game, and allow people to improve on what was originally nothing more than an unintended side effect.

LA's will likely always net you the highest DPS. Modifications to mediums and heavies would not take away your imaginary status you're so concerned about losing. You'd still be able to be top tier, fastest speed runs, highest scores.

Lack of medium benefit and inability to provide an in game tutorial with feedback is the problem. If the level up advisor tooltip was all it really took, this wouldn't even be a conversation.

ForeverJenn wrote: »

I do not understand what is so hard about hitting LA before your skill. It took 3 weeks of practice on my first dps to hit 100k. Light attacks are 15 percent of that. GCD doesn't allow for more than one skill in about 1 second. That's a longer time than you probably think. So why NOT light attack between that? Why do you want less dps than you are capable of if you just learn a rotation and understand the global cool down? This makes no sense.

I whole heartedly believe that 99 percent of people complaining about weaving are button mashers that have no clue about the global cool down. I also understand this is mostly on ZoS for doing a poor job on explaining this to players. But researching into it is about as easy as coming to the forums on a daily basis to complain about it. I just don't understand all the uproar and absolute misinformation on this topic.

@ForeverJenn 3 weeks and it 'clicked' for you. Congratulations.

Plenty of people know about the GCD and still can't weave consistently. Plenty of people are geared well, have played for years, and still don't break 100k.

Again, if it was just the 'knowing,' the level up tooltip would suddenly turn people into DPS machines. From many of the instances I've ran this past two weeks, I can assure you, it has not.

If it was truly as commonplace as it's made out to be, I'm fairly certain they'd be cranking up the overall difficulty to compensate. New player aside, knowing how to do it in theory and actually producing the results are the exact difference between the 'ceiling' and the 'floor.'

I don't think there's more hardcore than casuals.

But casuals don't play the content where LAs really needed, so it doesn't matter.

I don't care about 'status' lol. I care about a fun game. The combat with light attack weaving is more fun than cooldowns, and LAs taking up GCDs. You buff the damage of heavies and the game will just be hold down that button.

The way combat is now is a major reason players stick around. Everyone I know who still plays is here because of the combat.

It's not because or the super creative and different DLC zones we're now getting. It's not because of the mass of dungeons and trials we get a year. It's not because of the vast amount of cool mounts and other stuff we can collect. It's not because of the innovation in Cyrodiil and new BG maps.

Because non or those exist. Other games do them better than ESO.

Combat is what keeps people on ESO. It feels intuative and that every action is important. Take that away and it'll just be slow, too easy and boring.

Succuby

See no fun in light attaking, bow may be is an exeption. I like HA, but we have 20% less dps output with HA sets, and the same as just to HA on LA sets like relequin and kinrass.

But we can not do the same DPS output in HA sets with LA, it logickally we do more HA dps with it then.

It is not well balanced - to low dps on HA builds.

If i can play the same but just have more DPS with kinrass and relequin - where is balance ?

And HA sets are good only with HA to start with !

spartaxoxo

Brrrofski wrote: »

Combat is what keeps people on ESO. It feels intuative and that every action is important. Take that away and it'll just be slow, too easy and boring.

As long as light attacks did even like 10% more damage, that's what min-maxers would roll with unless they didn't actually enjoy doing them.

Heavy attacks have been closer in the past and it didn't result in everyone abandoning the game or being unable to compete using weaving.

Succuby

Even 5-10% is OK for me, but now we hits on HA 25% less !

And HA in LA sets can hit the same as HA builds where is logick ?

HA builds can not effectivly LA, than our HA damage have to be bigger, it is simple logick.

To low dps output of HA sets !

Brrrofski

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

Combat is what keeps people on ESO. It feels intuative and that every action is important. Take that away and it'll just be slow, too easy and boring.

As long as light attacks did even like 10% more damage, that's what min-maxers would roll with unless they didn't actually enjoy doing them.

Heavy attacks have been closer in the past and it didn't result in everyone abandoning the game or being unable to compete using weaving.

But you can do 99% of this game with a bad light attack weave, or just heavies.

You're talking about the very very top where it makes a difference. Like leaderboards os hardmodes of new trials.

In ANY game, there is a meta for the super top end players.

I don't see there being an issue with very endgame content having requirements or a certain way to play.

But for a lot of people, no matter what they do, the combat being fast and fluid as it is now is fun.

Most people who leave the game is either because there's a lack of PvE or pvp content (and lag issues in PVP). Or, because evey patch the game changes significantly.

They tried changing lights and heavies and guess what, nobody that tried it like it. It lasted like a week or two on PTS and was scrapped.

Succuby

A lot of people like HA and want play it. It is not like they can not do LA, they just do not want play like that and they want do any content.

It is bad that only 1 game style is overbuffed. The difference is only some people get to much dps value on game style they like, others did not.

We need alternate. If some one do not use LA why he can not do damage other way ?

I do not care in difference 100k HA against 110k LA builds

But now difference is to much 88-90k against 110-117k.

It is absurd !

I can not do LA effectevly in HA build, but in current update LA builds can do the same HA damage.

Is it ok ?