BG is completely dead, there's no more sense

MrSpencer

I can no longer restrain my emotions about what is happening. Pvp is the only reason why I continue to play this game, [snip]. Seriously, it wasn't that bad even when there were premades, championship points and a broken quiue. Now we have as many as 4 quiue options, but we still get deathmatch only. Deathmatch? Really? I don't know a single person who would like this activity, and even if there are such, this is definitely not a reason to take away other options from us. Please listen to your community, [snip], but we are not asking for much, just return everything as it was. Or remove the pvp content from the game completely, because it definitely can't be made worse.

[edited for bashing]

GetAgrippa

One more thread will surely get the point across.

Araneae6537

From what’s been posted, there are a lot of PVPers who do prefer Deathmatch so I’m glad that they can queue for it now as much as they want. As I see it, the problem is that the two queues aren’t entirely separate so not only are the odds WAY in the favor of Deathmatch, but those of us queuing up to do objectives are pitted against Deathmatch specialists.

Moonspawn

It has been said that the queue is, in fact, not broken. I believe people trying to get the daily just queue for whatever the default option is. They should probably just set the default option to Solo Random instead of Solo Deathmatch.

Vaoh

The only game mode I see atm is called Dark Convergence. I quit BGs until it changes lol.

If I want mindless gameplay I’d rather do it in Cyrodiil where you can make much more AP.

auz

Bgs are dead because you can't get the game type you want? That's a bit dramatic. I play Australian prime time and games pop in a matter of seconds. Do you queue all game modes? I have found that helps. My only complaint would be it is hard to get writs done in between matches popping.
People complaining about the lack of objective matches should now realise what the death match crowd has been feeling the last 2 years. In my opinion, the game finder is working great. 9 out of 10 matches being DM is exactly what I want.

Shomenuchi

MrSpencer wrote: »

I can no longer restrain my emotions about what is happening. Pvp is the only reason why I continue to play this game, [snip]. Seriously, it wasn't that bad even when there were premades, championship points and a broken quiue. Now we have as many as 4 quiue options, but we still get deathmatch only. Deathmatch? Really? I don't know a single person who would like this activity, and even if there are such, this is definitely not a reason to take away other options from us. Please listen to your community, [snip], but we are not asking for much, just return everything as it was. Or remove the pvp content from the game completely, because it definitely can't be made worse.

You mentioned "we" and "us". Who are "we"?
Since last patch I have no problem joining to BG in a few min. Even morning BGs are not so rare now.

[snip]

[edited for baiting & to remove quote]

Veinblood1965

GetAgrippa wrote: »

One more thread will surely get the point across.

When they come for you there won't be anyone to hear you scream.....

Silence is not your friend.

The squeaky wheel gets greased.

Need I go on?

gariondavey

Hi there, I am in a guild of 400 people who all prefer dm bgs

Aldoss

Veinblood1965 wrote: »

When they come for you there won't be anyone to hear you scream.....

TDM stopped being an option to queue for specifically for almost 2 years...

Likely, this exact quote was posted when those changes were announced only to be met with apathy or direct applause for the devs by people that loved the easy rewards from non-competitive objective modes.

I'm sorry that you're not feeling appreciated by the devs and I agree that it's not fair and absolutely frustrating, but I also understand the sick and twisted justice "glee" that some PvPers are getting right now reading the comments from these threads.

GetAgrippa

Veinblood1965 wrote: »

GetAgrippa wrote: »

One more thread will surely get the point across.

When they come for you there won't be anyone to hear you scream.....

Silence is not your friend.

The squeaky wheel gets greased.

Need I go on?

Beating a dead horse...

Truth does not belong to those who shout the loudest...

Want in one hand and [snip] in the other...

[Edited for Censor Bypass]

propertyOfUndefined

I haven’t signed on at all the past 3 days because I’m tired of waiting. All I can say is “you’re not alone”.

thesarahandcompany

It has been stated across multiple threads, multiple times, that a vast majority of players are queueing for deathmatch and the queue is working as intended.

This isn't a constructive post anymore and just repeating the same shouting lines from elsewhere.

We should just delete objective modes at this point and insert new, creative ways for players to win/engage in a 'deathmatch' environment.

Most players don't like objective modes because they incentivize not engaging in combat.

Dem_kitkats1

I disagree and BGs isn't at all dead. In fact, I've seen players who left last patch beginning to return, as well as an influx of new players. It may have seemed more populated before because all players were forced to play objective modes since they had no other option. The reality is that the majority of players before the que changes enjoyed DMs.

Now that they can solely que for DMs, they will and they have been. So even with the changes I've never had to wait long to be put into a match, which means that BGs is not dead. Sure ZOS can change the ques again, and perhaps they should so there should be no more complaining from objective mode players about lack of choice. Just be prepared for long que waiting times.

luen79rwb17_ESO

Moonspawn wrote: »

It has been said that the queue is, in fact, not broken. I believe people trying to get the daily just queue for whatever the default option is. They should probably just set the default option to Solo Random instead of Solo Deathmatch.

Last week my random queue only got me one single capture relic match, and I still managed to get weekly leaderboard rewards. The system is broken.

mmtaniac

I lost any interest in game thanks to current battlegrounds ,deathmatch is good mode but become boring if you play it non stop.
Random was best option always something different but its impossible right now and its sad.
On deathmatch you need to have always perfect build ,on other modes you need just play how you like and you can still win.

Contos

This tread isn't constructive at all, and won't bring change since there are already couple of these. Also you probably don't know anyone who plays pvp regaularly if you assume noone likes DM, when the fact that you get DM all the time just proves that at least a respectable amount of players queue for DM if not the majority. Tho i agree that the current amount if DM we have is "unhealty".

Contos

auz wrote: »

Bgs are dead because you can't get the game type you want? That's a bit dramatic. I play Australian prime time and games pop in a matter of seconds. Do you queue all game modes? I have found that helps. My only complaint would be it is hard to get writs done in between matches popping.
People complaining about the lack of objective matches should now realise what the death match crowd has been feeling the last 2 years. In my opinion, the game finder is working great. 9 out of 10 matches being DM is exactly what I want.

Except it's 99 out of 100, at best. I get that the post isn't constructive just another tread whinig, that won't make a difference if the others were ignored by the ZOS too. But at least be accurate please. Objective players aren't experiencing the same feeling DM player did for years. Not even close. There wasn't a single patch since bgs got introduced to the game when you didn't have DM in some form accessable. You always had at least 25% chance to get a DM.
From 693 games i got 197 DM (it's before we got DM only queues) thats 28% DM. Considering we had 5 gamemodes thats a really good precentage. And im not arguing on whether it's enough or not. Probably wasn't considering the size of DM communtiy.
Now we have a 99% chance to get objective modes, at best. Personally, on solo, form almost 150 games, i didn't get a single one. On group bg strangely, I got 2/19. So how are we experienceing the same feeling?
And if 99% is not bad enough, the feeling that in theory we can get a mode but never will is even more infuriating. It would be still better if they just straight up delete them, at least that would be transparent.
But I didn't mean it, unlike others on the forum, i don't think objective modes shd be deleted. We literally just want to play them at least occasionally, otherwise they are pointless.

_adhyffbjjjf12

mmtaniac wrote: »

I lost any interest in game thanks to current battlegrounds ,deathmatch is good mode but become boring if you play it non stop.
Random was best option always something different but its impossible right now and its sad.
On deathmatch you need to have always perfect build ,on other modes you need just play how you like and you can still win.

exact same, i spent months enjoying setting up sets for BG and they took the content away from me, not really played in last 6 weeks, just losing interest and doubt i will pay next yearly sub.

_adhyffbjjjf12

i will remind you zos, this is what you discovered:

"First, it’s valuable to note the general feedback on this test was quite polarizing. While there were certainly a lot of players that liked only having Deathmatch available, there were just as many that didn’t enjoy it. A frequent complaint we saw, though, was the disappointment that we removed something that is ultimately at the core of our game: the freedom of choice. And in the case of this test, the data appeared to back that up as well. Although we initially saw a very slight bump in participation, it quickly declined and has left Battleground populations in a fairly unhealthy state."

GW2 has successful objective BG, WOW has successful objective BG, but after the above you accidently break your random queue algorithm and don't fix it?! (i assume since you are not talking to your paying customers about it) cmon have a bit of respect for your own code and customer base.

thesarahandcompany

Deathmatch is the most popular BG mode, and has revived a lot of parts of the PVP community.

At this point we should just delete the objective modes and continue to improve upon and add deathmatch-style modes.

Contos

I don't know why are you so obsessed with this "we should just delete objective modes" thing so much. I've seen you saying the same thing almost word for word on different treads, but never gave a reasoning that i know of on why you wan't to delete them, when you have a deathmatch only queue. Enjoy it instead of trying to take away that occasional hapiness people have when they finally get an objective mode after 100 dms.
Sure it revived someone, I don't really keep up with it, but this should be your reason to delete objective games? Or why did you mention it, i don't understand. At one point you were making suggestions on how to improve obj modes now you want to delete them, even tho nothing changed regarding them. "At this point we should.." hinting something really bad happened and you lost hope in these modes, while you are't even playing them.
Also what deathmatch style game you want other than deathmatch? I can't really see other ways to just kill each other without any objective whatsoever. You can maybe play around with team sizes and numbers. But adding something to deathmatch just makes it an objective mode essentially. Even things like ballistas or idk. But i guess as long as you still get your medals for kills, assists ect it essentially remains a dm stlye mode, even if you have some secondary objectives/mechanics.
I don't have any problem with these things, there are way cooler opportunities than the current obj modes, but deleting the existing ones just cuz they are not popular and not that balanced instead of reworking them is just lazy.
And yeah less is sometimes more, but not in this case, not at all when that less is only deathmatch, or honestly any other mode, it becomes boring.
But if you say, it takes way less time and resources to make a new balancd one than balance an existing one, and that is why deleting them is a better idea, then okay, i'm fine eith that, but then, that is not your consern, and we don't know or decide that. Also you wan't to add DM syle gamemodes, what a lot of players would find problematic, depending on what dm style even means. But i just want to point out, that even if currently dm is the most popular, it doesn't mean we need even more dm like modes, dm is not the most enjoyable because it is the best it can be, simply the current obj modes are, not that good. Obj modes can be good, you know that, and the fact that obj players are in theory the minority you don't need to ignore them, even tho ZOS does that rn. They still exist..
If they delete obj modes they should at least give us some new and better obj modes not another 4 deathmatch. Ofc soem kind of healty combination would be the best. But at this point if they give us anything that is new and balanced in pvp thats already a blessing. All i wanted is to stop this objective modes are pve mentality i see a lot of places, pvp means player vs player, this killing eachother being the purest form of pvp is just a trope. And while it the most enjoyable for a lot, it also becomes boring really fast, by itself.

trackdemon5512

Contos wrote: »

I don't know why are you so obsessed with this "we should just delete objective modes" thing so much. I've seen you saying the same thing almost word for word on different treads, but never gave a reasoning that i know of on why you wan't to delete them, when you have a deathmatch only queue. Enjoy it instead of trying to take away that occasional hapiness people have when they finally get an objective mode after 100 dms.
Sure it revived someone, I don't really keep up with it, but this should be your reason to delete objective games? Or why did you mention it, i don't understand. At one point you were making suggestions on how to improve obj modes now you want to delete them, even tho nothing changed regarding them. "At this point we should.." hinting something really bad happened and you lost hope in these modes, while you are't even playing them.
Also what deathmatch style game you want other than deathmatch? I can't really see other ways to just kill each other without any objective whatsoever. You can maybe play around with team sizes and numbers. But adding something to deathmatch just makes it an objective mode essentially. Even things like ballistas or idk. But i guess as long as you still get your medals for kills, assists ect it essentially remains a dm stlye mode, even if you have some secondary objectives/mechanics.
I don't have any problem with these things, there are way cooler opportunities than the current obj modes, but deleting the existing ones just cuz they are not popular and not that balanced instead of reworking them is just lazy.
And yeah less is sometimes more, but not in this case, not at all when that less is only deathmatch, or honestly any other mode, it becomes boring.
But if you say, it takes way less time and resources to make a new balancd one than balance an existing one, and that is why deleting them is a better idea, then okay, i'm fine eith that, but then, that is not your consern, and we don't know or decide that. Also you wan't to add DM syle gamemodes, what a lot of players would find problematic, depending on what dm style even means. But i just want to point out, that even if currently dm is the most popular, it doesn't mean we need even more dm like modes, dm is not the most enjoyable because it is the best it can be, simply the current obj modes are, not that good. Obj modes can be good, you know that, and the fact that obj players are in theory the minority you don't need to ignore them, even tho ZOS does that rn. They still exist..
If they delete obj modes they should at least give us some new and better obj modes not another 4 deathmatch. Ofc soem kind of healty combination would be the best. But at this point if they give us anything that is new and balanced in pvp thats already a blessing. All i wanted is to stop this objective modes are pve mentality i see a lot of places, pvp means player vs player, this killing eachother being the purest form of pvp is just a trope. And while it the most enjoyable for a lot, it also becomes boring really fast, by itself.

Agreed. This player and others have a singular focus into what type of play is acceptable for PVP. The current active BG/DM community is one that enjoys the DM grind.

For under 50 matches (which are intended for new players) they constantly re-roll characters with maxed out gear to wail on the majority of players who don’t. It’s not competitive, it’s exploitative.

For no-CP matches they focus on whatever flavor-of-the-patch broken build to win and more specifically kill as many players as possible. This is not me trolling or baiting but stating a fact. It’s exploitative play. It’s directly contradictory to the spirit of what battlegrounds is supposed to be: small scale balanced Player against Player scenarios in a variety of conditions.

@Contos , you and I are apparently of the mind that there can be some sort of middle ground reached. Virtually all of the BG complainers on these forums the last few weeks want the same. The active DM community clearly doesn’t care and just wants DM all the time. They’re the reason why objective modes were filled with individuals who ignored objectives and caused frustration. They’ve also already said that they’re not giving up and going for DM only.

thesarahandcompany wrote: »

Araneae6537 wrote: »

I don’t think anyone is saying that Deathmatch isn’t popular (well, maybe some say that but I think it’s obviously wrong) but even if it wasn’t and only 1 in 10 people queuing for BGs queued for Deathmatch and the rest “random,” since the queues are combined, that would mean all Deathmatch. I’m sure more queue than that. The “random” queue is a joke that I’ve become more than a bit irritated with. The queues should be separate and I’d don’t mind if that means I need to wait a bit longer to get a match.

Again. This right here is why deathmatch players aren't giving any quarter.

1) It's not just 1 in 12 players in a given queue forcing deathmatch. Based on Rich's comments that the "vast majority" of players are queueing deathmatch, at LEAST 7 in 12 players in a given queue, on average, are queueing for it. Saying it's "1 in 12" is a serious understatement of how popular the mode is. We are defensive against this argument because we effectively went nearly two years without being able to queue deathmatch, or even queueing into it randomly. So any attempt to minimize the community's size in an argument about the queue is going to receive zero support from our community.

2) Stop blaming the (wrongly theorized) "1 in 12" deathmatch player for the queue issues.

3) It's also been said that if deathmatch was taken out of the mix, the queues would never pop for objective modes.

My question is why can't we get an actual response on how to improve objective games to be more engaging from objective gamers?

Talyndor

I totally agree with OP. I am done with BG's.

_adhyffbjjjf12

I enjoyed the BG objective modes as they were, and coming from GW2 that has very successful BG capture the flag style mods, I can see no real differences apart from the spikiness of damage at times.

So a more productive approach would be to identify the top 5 improvements that could be made to BG and zos focused on that.

mmtaniac

One mmr on whole account = no more smurfing

mandricus

I personally do not ask for DMers, who love to play Deatchmatch, to stop to have this option. I don't want to force people that do not enjoy the so-called "Objectives BG" to play them. They are absolute free to queue DM all the time and play DM 24h non stop, and keep doing it. Who cares? I'm happy for them if this is what they enjoy.

I'm just asking for a *choice*.

I like DM too, but not DM all the time, every single day, every day of the week.

would like to be able to queue for some other mode from time to time, when I want, and being able to get it. At the moment, I can't. The worst thing is, looks like there is this choice in the game, but it's a lie. I'm queueing for random all the times, i'm getting DM over and over and over. At this point, I would prefer they to remove completely the random queue from the game. I would be less frustrated. It would be clearer that I can only queue for DM, and that I will keep getting DM only. At the moment I feel cheated, because apparently I could queue for other BG modes than DM, the reality is that I can't , because it's almost impossible to get any other mode than DM.

Would it hurt you to keep playing DM, and let us have the choice to play something else when we want? Think about that.



PS: Last week I got my first domination BG. The only one so far, the first one since patch hit live (and please keep in mind that I keep queueing for BGs *every single day*). We finished second with my team, and I got a leaderboard reward at the end of the week. With *one single match*, that I didn't even win. Do yoyureally think that the queue is working as intended?

_adhyffbjjjf12

I gave up last week and am so pissed of at ZOS i've decided to take a long break from ESO and switched to GW2. Now i get my objective based BGs that pop quickly, ranked or non ranked, no crap like dark convergence etc. On top of that I was in a 50 v 50 v 50 crazy wvw battle that ran for hours, gfx at max, stacked aoe everywhere and not a bit of lag (maybe their upgrade to dx11 is helping)

Shame ZOS, if it wasn't for fact you remove the BG content I enjoyed I would never have strayed.

exeeter702

mandricus wrote: »

I personally do not ask for DMers, who love to play Deatchmatch, to stop to have this option. I don't want to force people that do not enjoy the so-called "Objectives BG" to play them. They are absolute free to queue DM all the time and play DM 24h non stop, and keep doing it. Who cares? I'm happy for them if this is what they enjoy.

I'm just asking for a *choice*.

I like DM too, but not DM all the time, every single day, every day of the week.

would like to be able to queue for some other mode from time to time, when I want, and being able to get it. At the moment, I can't. The worst thing is, looks like there is this choice in the game, but it's a lie. I'm queueing for random all the times, i'm getting DM over and over and over. At this point, I would prefer they to remove completely the random queue from the game. I would be less frustrated. It would be clearer that I can only queue for DM, and that I will keep getting DM only. At the moment I feel cheated, because apparently I could queue for other BG modes than DM, the reality is that I can't , because it's almost impossible to get any other mode than DM.

Would it hurt you to keep playing DM, and let us have the choice to play something else when we want? Think about that.



PS: Last week I got my first domination BG. The only one so far, the first one since patch hit live (and please keep in mind that I keep queueing for BGs *every single day*). We finished second with my team, and I got a leaderboard reward at the end of the week. With *one single match*, that I didn't even win. Do yoyureally think that the queue is working as intended?

Of course it is... there is nothing strange about it. Players a, b and c choose to play DM. Player d selects random. In this case, the system then puts player d into whatever available game is being filled and that is that.

Random was never an actual mode that grouped all players who also queued for random into a single randomized game mode. It was an incentive mode with a bonus reward tied to it to fill matches so games can start. It is literally no different than random dungeon. It exists so those that select a specific dungeon for whatever reason, are stuck in queue for hours on end. The irony of course being that given the option to queue for objective modes directly, will still see you waiting a long time in queue because the bulk of people doing bgs are playing DM.

This is simply natural selection doing its work.

Contos

mandricus wrote: »

I personally do not ask for DMers, who love to play Deatchmatch, to stop to have this option. I don't want to force people that do not enjoy the so-called "Objectives BG" to play them. They are absolute free to queue DM all the time and play DM 24h non stop, and keep doing it. Who cares? I'm happy for them if this is what they enjoy.

I'm just asking for a *choice*.

I like DM too, but not DM all the time, every single day, every day of the week.

would like to be able to queue for some other mode from time to time, when I want, and being able to get it. At the moment, I can't. The worst thing is, looks like there is this choice in the game, but it's a lie. I'm queueing for random all the times, i'm getting DM over and over and over. At this point, I would prefer they to remove completely the random queue from the game. I would be less frustrated. It would be clearer that I can only queue for DM, and that I will keep getting DM only. At the moment I feel cheated, because apparently I could queue for other BG modes than DM, the reality is that I can't , because it's almost impossible to get any other mode than DM.

Would it hurt you to keep playing DM, and let us have the choice to play something else when we want? Think about that.



PS: Last week I got my first domination BG. The only one so far, the first one since patch hit live (and please keep in mind that I keep queueing for BGs *every single day*). We finished second with my team, and I got a leaderboard reward at the end of the week. With *one single match*, that I didn't even win. Do yoyureally think that the queue is working as intended?

It has been stated several times that in theory "an objective only queue would never pop". What is just an exaggeration ofc, refering to really long queue times before getting a match, it wouldn't bother objective players probably.
But just looking at what ZOS been doing they are actively against it. I'm sure they have reasons but I have no clue what. Since objective queues rarely resulting in a match has a similar effect as these modes rarely dropping in the current system, the latter is probably worse since depending on what platform and what mode (solo/group) you are you using getting these modes can scale from rare to impossible to get, to a level where a rarely poing queue is still a way reasonable source of getting obj matches, but we can't know that exactly ofc.
And if they don't want to support these modes anymore then bringing them back (but not really) has no sense, other than if they just want people to hate on them even more cuz of this false illusion of option.
The idealistic queue system would be if objective and dm would be seperated, aswell solo and group. But since that is probably not realistic it won't happen
the second best option would be the old system (random one, the one before only DM) where we had solo random and group random, thats it. But instead all modes having 1/5 chance to pop, everyone can pick which gamemode he/she wants and the game will randomly select one from the pool, ofc the one the most people choosen will have higher chance (for example 5 dm 3 dom 3 chaos 1 ctr means dm has the highest chance from the modes but overall objective is more likely) That is a fair system, and I don't think the selfisness you are trying to support somewhat will push us closer to a healthy system and community.
Dm players don't need an only dm queue to play dm 0-24 even if they are the majority of a small population, they need to face it, just like objective players, we need to face that there are limits to what can be done with the current bg population. And if ZOS doesn't want to give us both seperate queues, then it's better to not have neither, since even if it's the more populer one, it's just pointlessly favoring one grp over the other.
Yeah having a system favoring DM is better than favoring Objevtives since the latter is less popular, though it being better than the old random system is debatable.
Yeah, right now the majority gets what it wants, but the minority doesn't. At all. So the system leans to one side.
While the old system was neutral (from popularity prespective), everyone played every mode, the end. Yeah it still favored the objective modes cuz from their point of view they are the majority, but you still got dm way more often.
As I stated in other threads, the current system is static, based on popularity, not driven by it. It can't change, and handle any rapid change, if the objective modes were to suddenly be more popular, we still would get dm. In fact the system doesn't even allow objective modes to get popular, since they are so rare and happen only in edge cases. But i'm not gonna repeat what i said many times over and over. What i'm trying to say here is the current system is just straight up bad, and i'm sure there are several better ways to do it and i already presented a few.
-Seperating the two queues or even more (only works with high population)
-Dynamic system driven by popularity (the precentage based random queue i mentioned above and in other posts)
-Static system based on popularity, weightened DM (basically the old random system with a higher DM drop rate)
-Semi seperating the queues [basically, you can choose what mode you want, if it isn't filing in a reasonable tiem for you (visual indicator needed) then you can just move to another queue that is filling faster]
All of these are way better than the current system, and there are way more. In fact the current system is just so lazy and bad many people thought its just straight up broken. Yeah i know programming is not easy, but this is not an indie game either.

mandricus

In the current system for what we know, if 11 players queue for a random bg, and one player queue for a deatchmatch, it drags all the players into Deatchmatch.
The probability of having a Deatchmatch is something like 99%. They did the mats, read the various thread about it in this forum section.
I'm just asking to have a fair chance to get a Random Battleground when I queue for it. 1% it's not a fair chance.