I miss dialogue choices.

Aertew

Whatever happened to choices and even dialogue options to react to a situation?

For example we still have persuasive and intimidate passives gor fighters guild and mages guild but I havnt seen a time to use them in any expansions for a while. For example deadlands spoiler

when we finally meet Lyranth we shouldn't just ask why she didnt meet up with us blandly. I want to react angrily and complain she made us waste time trying to find her. Or use persuasive perk to ask for more info about what she was doing.

i think alot of situations in deadlands between the player character and NPC's could be improved by allowing us to react angirly, sad or upset/annoyed to NPC's in Whatever way we want.

Usually main questlines just force us to feel a certai. way. Another good example is Blackwood spoiler

if you are part of the darkbrotherhood you have to outright tell Eveli with no option to lie.

They say your choices matter in ESO. What's the point if we can't do that anymore through dialogue options with NPC's in the main questlines or even side quests?

Vevvev

I think I saw an intimidation option once in all of the Deadlands DLC. I'd love to see these kinds of things make a return, especially considering they had some fun with it in Elsweyr during the throne room scene.

Aertew

I dont think i remember that. Was that Northern main quest or was it the questlinee when you do the main quest for the expansion and DLC? I havn't done that yet then

Adremal

Yes master I will go to rendezvous and destroy the objective we discovered. Read that in a monotone, think of Shale if you played Dragon Age: Origins (and if you haven't fix that). Many quests put You The Player in such a position, treating you not unlike an unthinking golem - sadly this trend seems to be growing. The first zones allowed for more freedom - and granted, it's not fair to expect a number of choices akin to that of cRPGs such as DA:O or Baldur's Gate from a MMORPG, but choices were fun. Still are, those few that get implemeneted... if they work. There's a bugged one in the Deadlands for instance, where you pick an option and the NPC does otherwise.

Vevvev

Aertew wrote: »

I dont think i remember that. Was that Northern main quest or was it the questlinee when you do the main quest for the expansion and DLC? I havn't done that yet then

Sorry, yes it was the Northern Elsweyr quest line when you talk to the evil tyrant lady.

drsalvation

Aertew wrote: »

Whatever happened to choices and even dialogue options to react to a situation?

For example we still have persuasive and intimidate passives gor fighters guild and mages guild but I havnt seen a time to use them in any expansions for a while. For example deadlands spoiler

when we finally meet Lyranth we shouldn't just ask why she didnt meet up with us blandly. I want to react angrily and complain she made us waste time trying to find her. Or use persuasive perk to ask for more info about what she was doing.

i think alot of situations in deadlands between the player character and NPC's could be improved by allowing us to react angirly, sad or upset/annoyed to NPC's in Whatever way we want.

Usually main questlines just force us to feel a certai. way. Another good example is Blackwood spoiler

if you are part of the darkbrotherhood you have to outright tell Eveli with no option to lie.

They say your choices matter in ESO. What's the point if we can't do that anymore through dialogue options with NPC's in the main questlines or even side quests?

exactly, even if it was the illusion of choice, but the fact that we could react to things our own way even if they don't affect the main story, that should be enough to keep us better engaged.
Story mode is pretty straight-forward and highly linear, you can't role-play (only choose endings), bosses in story mode which are supposed to be scary and tough and possibly the end of the world are as intimidating as a generic dungeon delve boss.
If we can't have veteran story mode, could we at least have non-affecting dialogue choices? Add some more RPG in this MMORPG?

Elsonso

I like the ESO writing, but I also understand that the stories are on rails and we along for the ride. There seems to be only limited space for alternatives in the story path. Maybe it is budget. All those alternative lines have to be spoken by some actor. Maybe it is just complexity and they don't want to deal with options and branches in the story, given that they probably want everyone to end up at the same ending.

Aertew

Elsonso wrote: »

I like the ESO writing, but I also understand that the stories are on rails and we along for the ride. There seems to be only limited space for alternatives in the story path. Maybe it is budget. All those alternative lines have to be spoken by some actor. Maybe it is just complexity and they don't want to deal with options and branches in the story, given that they probably want everyone to end up at the same ending.

I dont even want a alternate ending. Something as simple as getting angry at a NPC and they spit out alternate dialogue because of my choice. Then the story continues on rails.

If you play rivenspire and talk to count Verandis and learn he is a vampire. You get alternate dialogues. You get one where u hate him because he's a vampire. One where u say you omly work with him because Emeric told upu to trust him. The last one I think is you being indifferent.

In the end you have to work with him but at least the player can express themselves with different dialogue.



Of course the game would be amazing if we could have star wars the old republic level of story and choices that actually have consequences.

drsalvation

Elsonso wrote: »

I like the ESO writing, but I also understand that the stories are on rails and we along for the ride. There seems to be only limited space for alternatives in the story path. Maybe it is budget. All those alternative lines have to be spoken by some actor. Maybe it is just complexity and they don't want to deal with options and branches in the story, given that they probably want everyone to end up at the same ending.

If you're not part of the brotherhood, Eveli has a different set of dialogues for a specific part of the quest.
If you're part of the brotherhood, Eveli seems to be upset at you and even seems to hold onto a grudge (not sure for how long).

There ARE dialogue paths.
So why was I forced to reveal I'm with the dark brotherhood instead of being able to pretend I'm not? The story won't change, it's just as I said above, an illusion of choice. But we don't even get those choices (I mean, you should've chosen not to join the dark brotherhood when that dlc first came out years ago if you didn't want to *** off Eveli 5 years later -speak of long-term consequences-)
Heckles, even when she asks if she looks nice in a dress, the ONLY option you have is to tell her she does look nice, or even the very first time you meet her at the beginning of blackwood's main quest, there's a moment where you ask her to remind you what was going on, you don't have a choice to skip it, even tho I did the prologue quest just a day before, and I did NOT need nor want a reminder, so now it seems I'm playing with a kind-hearted worrying, coldhearted battleground butcher vampire with amnesiac outbursts... and who cares about nothing other than his reward from dungeons, but also doesn't seem to care about gold and wants to do what's right.

I'm an imperial! Let me serve the empire! When Abnur Tharn says you did a great service to the empire by defeating Mannimarco, the ONLY choice you have is "that's not why I did it".
They couldn't even give me the choice of "happy to serve" even if it's the exact same reponsive dialogue?

At this point, adding choices to dialogues in stories would be a neverending work-load requiring voice acting and revisions of stories that came out years ago, and for those of us who finished them a while back, we'll never get to reap the benefits of dialogue choices with our mains.

So I'll pretend to be Cato the Elder, but instead of finishing every post with "carthago delenda est", I'll finish every comment with this:

WE NEED A VETERAN STORY MODE

Aertew

xeNNNNN wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

I like the ESO writing, but I also understand that the stories are on rails and we along for the ride. There seems to be only limited space for alternatives in the story path. Maybe it is budget. All those alternative lines have to be spoken by some actor. Maybe it is just complexity and they don't want to deal with options and branches in the story, given that they probably want everyone to end up at the same ending.

[snip]

So they cant give us more lines for different dialogue options but they can have voice linew for recapping a quest I did 5 minutes ago?

I would be happy if they ditched the recap voicelines and gave us more in-depth diaolgue choices.

[edited to remove quote]

Blinx

I miss pre-greymoor writing in general, the quality just seems to have tanked hard imo

Elsonso

Aertew wrote: »

So they cant give us more lines for different dialogue options but they can have voice linew for recapping a quest I did 5 minutes ago?

I would be happy if they ditched the recap voicelines and gave us more in-depth diaolgue choices.

Unfortunately, you can set the quest down and come back in 6 months and have no idea what is going on, so they need the quest recaps for those people.

I don't want them to trade out stuff, but spend more money on more lines.

Aertew

Elsonso wrote: »

Aertew wrote: »

So they cant give us more lines for different dialogue options but they can have voice linew for recapping a quest I did 5 minutes ago?

I would be happy if they ditched the recap voicelines and gave us more in-depth diaolgue choices.

Unfortunately, you can set the quest down and come back in 6 months and have no idea what is going on, so they need the quest recaps for those people.

I don't want them to trade out stuff, but spend more money on more lines.

I dont mean to be rude but isn't that what the quest journal is for? Anytime I get off a questline or main quest I usually go to my quest journal then talk to the NPC. After that I usually understand what's happening.

Anyways. It just seems wierd to so a quest. Then talk to the NPC and have the option to ask about something you just did. I feel like mabye putting a longer recap in the quest journal could solve this problem.

colossalvoids

Yeah it's more like we're in another's person story for a ride and not actually doing/choosing anything ourselves, guess it's way more visible now with year long story approach, I clearly remember having to choose quite a bit and not being locked into some strange schemes like we were in couple previous years.

phaneub17_ESO

Toothmaul Gully had an option to fight the Goblin Chief, he was a really hard on top of it. One Tamriel got rid of it, now your only options are let the elf go or gut her.

spartaxoxo

phaneub17_ESO wrote: »

Toothmaul Gully had an option to fight the Goblin Chief, he was a really hard on top of it. One Tamriel got rid of it, now your only options are let the elf go or gut her.

Ohh yeah...(start at 14:12) (not my video)
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nkBKAcisA-w&t=962s

Also searching that up found this blast from the past about mobs back then.

Your least favorite mobs/bosses. (Minor spoilers.)
https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/26lvzg/your_least_favorite_mobsbosses_minor_spoilers/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

ShawnLaRock

Last Intimidate I remember was during the quest to get Bastion as a companion.

S.

NordSwordnBoard

Choose Valaste!

The stakes shouldn't have to be a skill point to make us care about deciding what to do.

maboleth

I agree, it's been a while since I saw the text line in red (meaning your choice will matter on how the story progresses further).

In fact, it was THE thing that bought me for ESO in the beginning, as it seemed quite non-linear. I'm not sure how often they are used now, but I trust not as it was before.

Little offtopic rant:
What I find a bit tiresome in ESO quests are those exact 3 question lines besides "Goodbye."
Say you want to do a side quest to collect a relic for some strange ritual and you said "Let me help you".

Now, whatever the quest, it will have those exact 3 lines like:

- Tell me more about those relics we are after.
- I have several questions about your order.
- Why are you here after all?
- Goodbye

So why I find this annoying? Because every single side quest feels it needs to have those 3 question lines (at least). While it somehow adds to the lore and depth, it also unnecessarily makes quests bigger than they actually are.
News flash - not every quest needs to be that deep and some need to be even deeper. Little variety please.

VaranisArano

There's a reason I've gone back to writing "The Merry Misadventures of Mirri (and Varanis Arano)" as my way of dealing with the Blackwood Railroad.

Saxhleel

Also, make it so your character doesn't have the brain capacity of a steamed cabbage. Like for example: Your character is a Dunmer and is faced with someone who talks about the Tribunal. Every Dunmer knows the Almsivi. Instead of something like "What is the Tribunal?" for every single character and makes you look stupid, add more choices to circumvent those questions.
For Example:

Tell me more about the Tribunal (For Dunmer who don't know that much)
Yes, go on. or Thank you, but I must be going. (To skip that horrible question)
What is the Tribunal? (For non-Dunmer characters or just to be called a fetching s'wit by the NPC if you are Dunmer.)

Just my thoughts.

Aertew

Saxhleel wrote: »

Also, make it so your character doesn't have the brain capacity of a steamed cabbage. Like for example: Your character is a Dunmer and is faced with someone who talks about the Tribunal. Every Dunmer knows the Almsivi. Instead of something like "What is the Tribunal?" for every single character and makes you look stupid, add more choices to circumvent those questions.
For Example:

Tell me more about the Tribunal (For Dunmer who don't know that much)
Yes, go on. or Thank you, but I must be going. (To skip that horrible question)
What is the Tribunal? (For non-Dunmer characters or just to be called a fetching s'wit by the NPC if you are Dunmer.)

Just my thoughts.

I thought they would change that. I'm pretty sure if you are a high elf doing summerset there are alternate dialogue's you get from NPC's.

Chips_Ahoy

Dialog choices was the reason I stopped questing years ago.

It's ridiculous, everyone I met in the game had to be exiled or killed, why me? I just met you 10 minutes ago.

FluffWit

I try and start every dlc with an open mind and actually take the story seriously but within a couple hours I'm usually back to just skipping all dialogue and rushing through things.

VaranisArano

Aertew wrote: »

Saxhleel wrote: »

Also, make it so your character doesn't have the brain capacity of a steamed cabbage. Like for example: Your character is a Dunmer and is faced with someone who talks about the Tribunal. Every Dunmer knows the Almsivi. Instead of something like "What is the Tribunal?" for every single character and makes you look stupid, add more choices to circumvent those questions.
For Example:

Tell me more about the Tribunal (For Dunmer who don't know that much)
Yes, go on. or Thank you, but I must be going. (To skip that horrible question)
What is the Tribunal? (For non-Dunmer characters or just to be called a fetching s'wit by the NPC if you are Dunmer.)

Just my thoughts.

I thought they would change that. I'm pretty sure if you are a high elf doing summerset there are alternate dialogue's you get from NPC's.

A number of Altmer will treat you better if you are Altmer vs a different race. There's some acknowledgment that you can be an Altmer and still nebarra, i.e. you aren't from the main island.

It's something the writers have improved on, and I think it's partly due to the criticism that the Morrowind Chapter got for dumb things like making the Dunmer players ask "What's a Tribunal?"

Kory

I would actually enjoy questing again if they added dialogue choices. Otherwise it's skip skip skip like everyone else does. The stories aren't even interesting to me if there is no way for my character to interact in any kind of interesting way in the story.

Alarde

It's always meaningless. The story is [Snip] and not tailored to your character, so even if you decide to kill that NPC to achieve something, it's not that relevant or the world cares to that at all in the end.

Every dialogue that comes with persuasion or intimidation options can come with a bribe option too, and it's like pocket change to pay up that NPC so you don't have to walk a mile to do something else.

It's a joke.

[Edited for mild bashing]

colossalvoids

VaranisArano wrote: »

Aertew wrote: »

Saxhleel wrote: »

Also, make it so your character doesn't have the brain capacity of a steamed cabbage. Like for example: Your character is a Dunmer and is faced with someone who talks about the Tribunal. Every Dunmer knows the Almsivi. Instead of something like "What is the Tribunal?" for every single character and makes you look stupid, add more choices to circumvent those questions.
For Example:

Tell me more about the Tribunal (For Dunmer who don't know that much)
Yes, go on. or Thank you, but I must be going. (To skip that horrible question)
What is the Tribunal? (For non-Dunmer characters or just to be called a fetching s'wit by the NPC if you are Dunmer.)

Just my thoughts.

I thought they would change that. I'm pretty sure if you are a high elf doing summerset there are alternate dialogue's you get from NPC's.

It's something the writers have improved on, and I think it's partly due to the criticism that the Morrowind Chapter got for dumb things like making the Dunmer players ask "What's a Tribunal?"

And in deadlands we're back at asking "what is an ordinator"... Not sure they care anymore for such things, probably Summerset was the last chapter done right in that department.

ectoplasmicninja

Aertew wrote: »

If you play rivenspire and talk to count Verandis and learn he is a vampire. You get alternate dialogues. You get one where u hate him because he's a vampire. One where u say you omly work with him because Emeric told upu to trust him. The last one I think is you being indifferent.

In the end you have to work with him but at least the player can express themselves with different dialogue.

I have massive beef with that questline because I did it as a vampire and there is no option to be like "I am also a vampire, so this is fine". The best option was "well King Emeric told me to trust you". I had to be horrified by them drinking the blood of their willing servant instead of being able to say that that I approved of their approach or that they were wasting their gift or whatever.

VaranisArano

Alarde wrote: »

It's always meaningless. The story is [Snip] and not tailored to your character, so even if you decide to kill that NPC to achieve something, it's not that relevant or the world cares to that at all in the end.

Every dialogue that comes with persuasion or intimidation options can come with a bribe option too, and it's like pocket change to pay up that NPC so you don't have to walk a mile to do something else.

It's a joke.

LOL, yeah, Percius Loche was like "Noble's Clothes require a noble's purse! Pay me 600 gold or do an adventurer task for me."

On the one hand, that's a fun bit of roleplaying. Players who want to save gold for other stuff or who roleplay a poor adventurer have a fun option to go make a trade for their outfit.

Me? "Buddy, adventuring requires an adventurer's purse. You have any idea what cornflower costs these days on PC? I'll just drop cash for the outfit."

Little decisions like that help make roleplaying moments that let us tailor the story to us, even if it's in pretty basic ways.

kojou

I agree with the sentiment. I liked the interactive choices. I wish they even had more, but I understand that can be difficult to program and test.

There should be a "Do gooder" response, a Nihilist response, and an "evil doer" response at a minimum.