Name some thing's that are Meta right now ?

WeylandLabs

Ok il go first *

Mitigation stacking * META insanely high !

xxslam48xxb14_ESO

Yeah that and blocking instead of rolling. Both of these things together is the new tank meta. Now would be an amazing time to rework oblivion to instead scale off mitigation instead of health. Hrothgars should also scale off of armor + mitigation %. People are saying hrothgars should get a little boost and I think having it scale off of % mitigation would be a nice buff. Would still not hit that hard on normal dps builds, but would get a boost against the targets it was designed to combat. You think about it you get a minimum of 50% from block, 15% from minor/major protection, 20% from evasion, X% from champion points, 30% from undeath. People are tanky as hell without even having to try that hard.

katorga

xxslam48xxb14_ESO wrote: »

Yeah that and blocking instead of rolling. Both of these things together is the new tank meta. Now would be an amazing time to rework oblivion to instead scale off mitigation instead of health. Hrothgars should also scale off of armor + mitigation %. People are saying hrothgars should get a little boost and I think having it scale off of % mitigation would be a nice buff. Would still not hit that hard on normal dps builds, but would get a boost against the targets it was designed to combat. You think about it you get a minimum of 50% from block, 15% from minor/major protection, 20% from evasion, X% from champion points, 30% from undeath. People are tanky as hell without even having to try that hard.

In CP you stack % mitigation by default, all with CP. The diminishing returns on multiplicative % reductions is harsh, no need for Undeath.

For me the meta this patch is healing. My necro and sorcerer mains now have equal spell/weapon damage and crit rate. That means on my stamcro, my intensive mender and resistant flesh heals actually tooltip higher than my magcro. Think about that.
I get all of the advantages of a stam build in pvp, combined with the class healing potential of a magicka build.

Next is hyrbidization in general. Because my damage, crit rate, and penetration stats are unified. Damage type doesn't matter at all. So my stam sorc is able to blend in haunting curse and mages wrath into my normal delayed burst combo, effectively doubling it when everything lines up.

L_Nici

Lag is Meta.

Salix_alba

Facebook is now known as Meta

SkaraMinoc

Simmering Frenzy is currently meta for Mag Sorc battlegrounds healer but it's not easy to use.

Vevvev

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

Simmering Frenzy is currently meta for Mag Sorc battlegrounds healer but it's not easy to use.

Guess the safer version would be Sated Fury? Or is the reduced healing cut into the return heal too much when you turn it off?

SkaraMinoc

Vevvev wrote: »

Guess the safer version would be Sated Fury? Or is the reduced healing cut into the return heal too much when you turn it off?

Sated Fury isn't worth running.

The increased spell damage from the Simmering Frenzy morph is what makes the skill great. Twilight Matriarch heal is so strong that it outheals the health cost. You can get up to 5 stacks safely and 10 stacks is my personal limit.

5 stacks = 1070 spell damage = +18.21% healing
10 stacks = 1426 spell damage = +24.26% healing

The biggest Twilight Matriarch heal I've done was a 20.1k crit in PvP with ~15 stacks. Add 4k heal from Power Surge and 3k Resto tick and you're close to a complete 100% heal in a single global. You need to sacrifice mitigation and sustain to reach these numbers so it's not realistic for competitive battlegrounds. But it's still fun to see and great for casual PvP.

McTaterskins

Radiating regen stacking.

divnyi

Running DPS builds with a single Gaze of Sithis. Ppl who complain about tank meta just didn't try to run things that hurt them too.

KhajiitLivesMatter

divnyi wrote: »

Running DPS builds with a single Gaze of Sithis. Ppl who complain about tank meta just didn't try to run things that hurt them too.

yea maybe cuse if u use a glass canon build u are dead in less than 5sec - and if only gaze u are a glass canon

MEBengalsFan2001

Bashcro.

Vevvev

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

Guess the safer version would be Sated Fury? Or is the reduced healing cut into the return heal too much when you turn it off?

Sated Fury isn't worth running.

The increased spell damage from the Simmering Frenzy morph is what makes the skill great. Twilight Matriarch heal is so strong that it outheals the health cost. You can get up to 5 stacks safely and 10 stacks is my personal limit.

5 stacks = 1070 spell damage = +18.21% healing
10 stacks = 1426 spell damage = +24.26% healing

The biggest Twilight Matriarch heal I've done was a 20.1k crit in PvP with ~15 stacks. Add 4k heal from Power Surge and 3k Resto tick and you're close to a complete 100% heal in a single global. You need to sacrifice mitigation and sustain to reach these numbers so it's not realistic for competitive battlegrounds. But it's still fun to see and great for casual PvP.

I see, my issue is I've been trying to use Simmering Frenzy on my magDK and it's proven to be a true pain to get it working right due to the amount of damage coming my way and the reduced healing on Battle Spirit. Keep defaulting to Sated Fury, at least in PvE, since the heal at the end is pretty much free when combined with gear like the Pale Order Ring and abilities that deal damage and heal or heal over time like Radiating Regen and Burning Embers.

Think I need to practice with it and find applications for it on my magDK. Know when the vampire rework first came out on the PTS I tried doing a Blood Frenzied Leap to some interesting results.... if I didn't accidentally leave the ability on and try to heal the "mysterious" incoming damage!

SkaraMinoc

Vevvev wrote: »

I see, my issue is I've been trying to use Simmering Frenzy on my magDK and it's proven to be a true pain to get it working right due to the amount of damage coming my way and the reduced healing on Battle Spirit.

Mag DK is a completely different use case than Mag Sorc Healer. It's acceptable and expected that Simmering Frenzy not work in your case. If the numbers don't add up then no amount of practice will help. Don't feel too bad.

Vevvev

So I don't completely derail the thread, Pariah as a defensive set stacked with stage 3 vampire to make something glassy a bit tanky.

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

I see, my issue is I've been trying to use Simmering Frenzy on my magDK and it's proven to be a true pain to get it working right due to the amount of damage coming my way and the reduced healing on Battle Spirit.

Mag DK is a completely different use case than Mag Sorc Healer. It's acceptable and expected that Simmering Frenzy not work in your case. If the numbers don't add up then no amount of practice will help. Don't feel too bad.

Tested it a bit for the past few hours, and while I have died to certain things I usually don't, I have also killed things far faster than I usually do. Even used it to fight a banner boss in the Imperial City to great effect, but against players I have yet to find an actually worthy opponent that isn't far below my level. Going to visit Cyrodiil once I get back online for that.

Used the Pale Order Ring, Radiating Regeneration, and Burning Embers to fuel it and found the trick is turning it off before it leaves you in a pretty bad position with no health. But I know what you mean when you say Sorc is probably the better class for it thanks to things like Critical Surge. Pale Order Ring effectively forces me into a solo situation that can't benefit from cross healing.

master_vanargand

xxslam48xxb14_ESO wrote: »

Yeah that and blocking instead of rolling. Both of these things together is the new tank meta. Now would be an amazing time to rework oblivion to instead scale off mitigation instead of health. Hrothgars should also scale off of armor + mitigation %. People are saying hrothgars should get a little boost and I think having it scale off of % mitigation would be a nice buff. Would still not hit that hard on normal dps builds, but would get a boost against the targets it was designed to combat. You think about it you get a minimum of 50% from block, 15% from minor/major protection, 20% from evasion, X% from champion points, 30% from undeath. People are tanky as hell without even having to try that hard.

I agree your opinion.

soniku4ikblis

Constant death is the new magplar meta. Tank 2x Undeath NBs and why log in.

TheS1X

I see lots of DKS and Templars roaming BGs and everything, being unkillable and stuff...
DK did like 2million damage for the end of the match when even Sorc had only like 1m and best NB was with 700k.
WTH is going on??? WTF is this game, seriously?
I am not going to talk about templars, those guys, geeez... And when there are like 2 DKs with 2 Templars, that team just run over everything. Zos, plz fix that and delete NB already, it is pointless roleplay class. ( I have nothing against roleplay tho )
Sorry for the heat but it is just so frustrating and makes me not want to play this game.

wheresbes

divnyi wrote: »

Running DPS builds with a single Gaze of Sithis. Ppl who complain about tank meta just didn't try to run things that hurt them too.

Tried it, went back to Chudan.

Turtles are meta, turtles everywhere!

divnyi

@TheS1X basically you hate 3 basic classes out of 4.

Fun part, that sorc & warden & necro were considered top tier for more than year, and probably still are, even after DK got damage buff in passives and magblade got heal. Nothing changed for plars, dunno what makes you sad.

divnyi

wheresbes wrote: »

Turtles are meta, turtles everywhere!

Full-on turtles can't kill you with burst when you roll Gaze and heal through their burst combos. I roll 25-26k HP with Major Resolve skill and that's enough.

I actually like how it's possible to run almost PvE builds and get top scores consistently. Player HPs gone down in these patches significantly. ZOS did good job at balancing, unironically.

NordSwordnBoard

Negate

TheS1X

divnyi wrote: »

@TheS1X basically you hate 3 basic classes out of 4.

Fun part, that sorc & warden & necro were considered top tier for more than year, and probably still are, even after DK got damage buff in passives and magblade got heal. Nothing changed for plars, dunno what makes you sad.

I just think this game would be better and more fun if some classes can not heal that much and there are actual healers who build for healing. ZOS knows exactly what classes can burst heal them selves from 0 to 100% with less than a second and same time keeping all their sustain. There are lots of people who like to play such classes and ofc, they are fun and easy and comfy but it breaks PVP and ofc I hate that, it sucks.
I removed vigor from my skill bar to make my game more interesting, I heal my self only with rally.
I run dungeons like that, do overland content and I even PVP only with rally.
I am doing fine but I just hate when people heal them selves full after long, long intense fight and same time if I am dead with my pools, they are somehow totally full, it is like they can reset one fight 100x times. And it is just weird to see 10 players trying to kill 1 templar 30 mins. it feels like ZOS made powerful heals for kids to not die and feel bad or something.

divnyi

@TheS1X well if you place artificial limitations like this on yourself, it's obvious that you will lose any fights where you don't gank opponent and win before he starts healing back. I mean you can still play like that on gankblades and bombers, but other than that no-heal is probably the toughest limitation of them all.

HoTs are there to negate dots, burst/shields are there to negate huge spikes of damage. It still costs less to do damage then to outheal it. Most players would just escape before they are out of resources, line of sight out or hide behind teammate. That's why burst damage is like 80-90% of kills in PvP - you stack damage in very short interval so opponent has no chance to heal himself. Now that's countered by active measures like dodges and blocks. And again that has counterplay - if opponent expects burst, reset your buffs and set up some dots instead, do heavy attacks, but be prepared to start your combo faster then he can heal out to safe range and setup his own.

Yes, healing is strong in this game. Very strong. And if you hate how separate players can heal *themselves*, then you would love to see how organized groups stack radiant regens and AoE vigor

And uh, necro and sorc have insane self-heal too, so that's not about plars only.

xDeusEJRx

1 button builds, for some reason ZoS really likes builds where you can kill people while putting the most minimal amounts of effort

Urzigurumash

TheS1X wrote: »

I see lots of DKS and Templars roaming BGs and everything, being unkillable and stuff...
DK did like 2million damage for the end of the match when even Sorc had only like 1m and best NB was with 700k.
WTH is going on??? WTF is this game, seriously?
I am not going to talk about templars, those guys, geeez... And when there are like 2 DKs with 2 Templars, that team just run over everything. Zos, plz fix that and delete NB already, it is pointless roleplay class. ( I have nothing against roleplay tho )
Sorry for the heat but it is just so frustrating and makes me not want to play this game.

DKs historically have been capable of reaching larger damage sums but worse K-D ratios relative to other classes, since DoT damage gets soaked up by HoTs and the class is non-evasive. MagSorcs are the winningest class in Death Match. We have 4 years of data here, there's nothing to debate. DKs and Templars also increase in power the more of them there are together - I've consistently seen this play out over the years. Before anybody interprets that as "Nerf Sorc" let's lay out some realities: MagSorcs are OP at Death Match, StamSorcs are OP in the Sewers. MagDKs are OP at dueling, StamDKs are OP at taking flags. Certain classes must be OP at certain things - smallscale combat in Cyrodiil is where we should look at whether things are balanced, and I think that format is at its best in years, regarding class balance anyhow, with DarkCloak mNBs and non-Healer mDens trailing behind a bit, at least as of last patch.

divnyi wrote: »

HoTs are there to negate dots, burst/shields are there to negate huge spikes of damage.

HoTs are overtuned, damage shields are undertuned, and it's been like this for a while. Anybody disagree?

SkaraMinoc

Urzigurumash wrote: »

damage shields are undertuned

Last night I threw together a Mag Sorc build and got to 11k Hardened Ward shield in battlegrounds with little effort.

Crafty, Spinner's, DDF, tri-stat everything w/ The Mage and you have 32k health, 11k shield, 10k spell pen. 8k crystal frag crits.

Requires Inner Light and Bound Aegis but I run those on every PvP build.

divnyi

Urzigurumash wrote: »

HoTs are overtuned, damage shields are undertuned, and it's been like this for a while. Anybody disagree?

My 20k shields healsorc disagrees

HoTs stacking is overtuned, not HoTs by themselves. When class have access to many self-HoTs it's when it gets into the broken territory. When players stack AoE hots too.

Things like selfish vigor are honestly fine, they heal a lot in 4s but that's no use if you get all damage in 1-2s, most mage classes have burst heals that heal much more than that in that span.

Elrond87

TheS1X wrote: »

I see lots of DKS and Templars roaming BGs and everything, being unkillable and stuff...
DK did like 2million damage for the end of the match when even Sorc had only like 1m and best NB was with 700k.
WTH is going on??? WTF is this game, seriously?
I am not going to talk about templars, those guys, geeez... And when there are like 2 DKs with 2 Templars, that team just run over everything. Zos, plz fix that and delete NB already, it is pointless roleplay class. ( I have nothing against roleplay tho )
Sorry for the heat but it is just so frustrating and makes me not want to play this game.

yea i did 2.5mi dmg in bg as dk but only like 4 kills, and the sorc in my group just baiscly executes the players i damage and get the kills its always like this, dks assistants

Urzigurumash

Elrond87 wrote: »

TheS1X wrote: »

I see lots of DKS and Templars roaming BGs and everything, being unkillable and stuff...
DK did like 2million damage for the end of the match when even Sorc had only like 1m and best NB was with 700k.
WTH is going on??? WTF is this game, seriously?
I am not going to talk about templars, those guys, geeez... And when there are like 2 DKs with 2 Templars, that team just run over everything. Zos, plz fix that and delete NB already, it is pointless roleplay class. ( I have nothing against roleplay tho )
Sorry for the heat but it is just so frustrating and makes me not want to play this game.

yea i did 2.5mi dmg in bg as dk but only like 4 kills, and the sorc in my group just baiscly executes the players i damage and get the kills its always like this, dks assistants

Yep, it's pretty much always been that way. Not that there's anything necessarily wrong with it, but DKs having large damage sums is not indicative of any problem.

divnyi wrote: »

My 20k shields healsorc disagrees

HoTs stacking is overtuned, not HoTs by themselves.

Points taken. It would be nice if damage shields were worthwhile for anybody besides MagSorcs, and even on MagSorcs, have they ever been weaker? No debate that they were disastrously overpowered years ago, before they changed them to scale with Resistances.

wheresbes

divnyi wrote: »

wheresbes wrote: »

Turtles are meta, turtles everywhere!

Full-on turtles can't kill you with burst when you roll Gaze and heal through their burst combos. I roll 25-26k HP with Major Resolve skill and that's enough.

Problem is that turtles like to stick together under a healing aura and hide amongst their carapaces others actually capable of killing XD Also, it doesn't help that my burst heal often goes to someone else ooops