Overland Content Feedback Thread

Lysette

ShalidorsHeir, that is all great, but you cannot expect that ZOS is catering to this kind of player level, because there might be too few of you to be worth the hassle - as bad as this is for you, you cannot expect this to happen.

This is like with me wanting a private instance - so far I did not get any response of someone saying, oh, yeah I would love this - so this is not going to happen either.

colossalvoids

SilverBride wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Some players are new to ESO, have overland been their first experience with the game, and perhaps have a higher standard of what an action rpg should be expecting of them combat wise and leave early thinking ESO is bland and boring.

I see ESO as story based rather than action. I think of first person shooters as action games, so if players are coming here looking for that type of combat they probably will be disappointed.

Story is just a part of it, for a lot of folks it's combat system and customisation which keeps them playing this title instead of going elsewhere. And this actin rpg inspired system with sprinkles of other things on top helps to retain us.

Lysette wrote: »

There is no serious concurrence to ESO for those of us, who basically more or less grew up with Elder Scrolls or played it in our younger years - we are not here because it is just some fantasy game which we could easily switch out for another one - we are here because it is Elder Scrolls and other fantasy games might be nice, but they aren't Elder Scrolls.

It's yet again just part of it. Sure I'm here mainly because it's an elder scrolls, a franchise which I've been playing since my school years, since around twenty years from now? But the stories aren't the strongest part of it for some of us in their current state, I personally find combat system as it's biggest strength and I want it to be utilised more and not less. We are here for a different reasons, enjoy stories way differently, we have fun and de-stress differently overall. Blind brand loyalty isn't the only reason here at all.

Lysette

It is not about the brand, but the world of Nirn, it's races and the awesome beauty of it's landscapes, fauna and flora. I got hooked with TES:Mórrowind, being on a alien planet with it's wonders, the nearly unknown history of the dwarven races, then the existence of a much older even less known civilization (Ayleid), a world where everyone is using some kind of magic and where it is quite normal - I did not even touch the main quest in TES:Morrowind, and had so much fun exploring and being a member of all guilds I came across, serving the house of Hlaalu, which went hand in hand with serving the Morag Tong. There are a bunch of quests, I certainly never touched, because I didn't come across them - and I was so faszinated by this world, that I totally forgot about that I was supposed to contact the blades and get into the main storyline.

It is the world of Nirn, which fascinates me - it is not the brand as is.

btw you got it the wrong way around - it is not a combat system sprinkled with some rpg elements - it is a role playing game in the first place, with has as well some combat - combat is not the main focus of this game at all and that is as well why it is not a souls-like combat, but more a casual "let's fight a little" type of combat - the main thing is the world of Tamriel and stories in it - not necessarily the main story line even - I guess a lot of us have not even completed that one and are still lacking their soul.

I like as well most of the side quests, which are often quite lovely - like helping a supposed to marry couple in the Reach, who don't want to get married, even on the first sight it was clear to me, that those 2 will end up being married and loving it - she is a strong-headed woman not afraid to speak her mind - that is exactly the type of woman that guy needs, but he felt bound to a promise he has given in his youth - so I had to help them getting there - this is what I like with side quests - they might not be that interesting to you, but I think about these things and decide based on my character's opinion about the matter, if I do that quest or not.

To me that is important, why I should do or avoid that quest - resp. why my characters do it or not - they have made quite different experiences with the Reach clans - some are very pro clans, others of my characters are absolutely opposed to them - this is role playing to me, each character has own opinions, experiences and resulting from this different goals as well. The role play aspect is what keeps me here, combat not so much, I do not even think it is a good combat system at all - it is decent enough, but for example having to drop all attribute points in just one resource, is very limiting.

ShalidorsHeir

Lysette wrote: »

ShalidorsHeir, that is all great, but you cannot expect that ZOS is catering to this kind of player level, because there might be too few of you to be worth the hassle - as bad as this is for you, you cannot expect this to happen.

This is like with me wanting a private instance - so far I did not get any response of someone saying, oh, yeah I would love this - so this is not going to happen either.

Lets focus on the original goal. Immersion in overland content. I dont ask for overland content as alternative to vet dungeons + hard mode. I just brought in some numbers to clarify the other side of the medal.

Lysette

ShalidorsHeir wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

ShalidorsHeir, that is all great, but you cannot expect that ZOS is catering to this kind of player level, because there might be too few of you to be worth the hassle - as bad as this is for you, you cannot expect this to happen.

This is like with me wanting a private instance - so far I did not get any response of someone saying, oh, yeah I would love this - so this is not going to happen either.

Lets focus on the original goal. Immersion in overland content. I dont ask for overland content as alternative to vet dungeons + hard mode. I just brought in some numbers to clarify the other side of the medal.

Hm I asked a few CP1000+ friends what kind of damage they do - that has been in the range of 20-25k dps - and they are quite average vet players (they themselves consider it to be that way). So if this would turn out to be average - you will still not be happy with an adjustment to this group, because you outdo them like 3-4 times - and it would still feel stale to you.

Not DD - they are healers or tanks.

Chilly-McFreeze

Lysette wrote: »

ShalidorsHeir wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

ShalidorsHeir, that is all great, but you cannot expect that ZOS is catering to this kind of player level, because there might be too few of you to be worth the hassle - as bad as this is for you, you cannot expect this to happen.

This is like with me wanting a private instance - so far I did not get any response of someone saying, oh, yeah I would love this - so this is not going to happen either.

Lets focus on the original goal. Immersion in overland content. I dont ask for overland content as alternative to vet dungeons + hard mode. I just brought in some numbers to clarify the other side of the medal.

Hm I asked a few CP1000+ friends what kind of damage they do - that has been in the range of 20-25k dps - and they are quite average vet players (they themselves consider it to be that way). So if this would turn out to be average - you will still not be happy with an adjustment to this group, because you outdo them like 3-4 times - and it would still feel stale to you.

Not DD - they are healers or tanks.

I must ask: you said you only have chars around level 35. Have you yourself ever stepped foot in a normal dungeon? Just to experience the difficulty gap between "normal" overland and "normal" group content.

ShalidorsHeir

Lysette wrote: »

ShalidorsHeir wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

ShalidorsHeir, that is all great, but you cannot expect that ZOS is catering to this kind of player level, because there might be too few of you to be worth the hassle - as bad as this is for you, you cannot expect this to happen.

This is like with me wanting a private instance - so far I did not get any response of someone saying, oh, yeah I would love this - so this is not going to happen either.

Lets focus on the original goal. Immersion in overland content. I dont ask for overland content as alternative to vet dungeons + hard mode. I just brought in some numbers to clarify the other side of the medal.

Hm I asked a few CP1000+ friends what kind of damage they do - that has been in the range of 20-25k dps - and they are quite average vet players (they themselves consider it to be that way). So if this would turn out to be average - you will still not be happy with an adjustment to this group, because you outdo them like 3-4 times - and it would still feel stale to you.

Not DD - they are healers or tanks.

I would be happy tho. Dont get me wrong - i dont want something to break my ass apart i request harder content for the sake of immersion -> a fight for 5 secs is not - a fight for 30 secs or even a minute (considering a quest boss for instance) is better - even you must agree that you would NOT be too upset about other players interferring your fight if the boss would not die within less than 10 secs, right? I mean, yes i outdo them - but it doesnt matter. ill still have a fight for 30 secs, a good way more immersive and remarkable than now, where others may fight for a minute. Everything is far better than < 10 secs where it also is getting on your nerves when other players are joining your (as you stated in multiple comments). Maybe this would not be the case if it was a remarkable fight, that can be fought alone as well as with a small group of players.

colossalvoids

btw you got it the wrong way around - it is not a combat system sprinkled with some rpg elements - it is a role playing game in the first place, with has as well some combat - combat is not the main focus of this game at all and that is as well why it is not a souls-like combat, but more a casual "let's fight a little" type of combat - the main thing is the world of Tamriel and stories in it - not necessarily the main story line even - I guess a lot of us have not even completed that one and are still lacking their soul.

Wasn't the thing I was talking about at all. I was referring to the combat system alone and not the game at large being a sprinkle to it. It's a blend of other combat systems but feels like mostly diablo-like ARPG inspired. It's just a part of the game, but for some it's this exact game's strength and what's make it unique and satisfying in a sense. For me it's hard to look seriously on single player tes games combat systems after eso, I'm either ignoring it or mod the heck out of it to be also more arpg like (most combat and perk mods are going that direction also).

I actually disagree a lot with it being "let's fight a bit" style of combat, if you actually meant that and not about zenimax focusing on content they're generally provide (one not requiring any combat system utilisation - just click though stories). Vanilla Skyrim and Oblivion were ones that I'd describe like that. Equip the weapon with bigger DMG number and swing speed, click through the game while stories are playing out. Eso is way different to that and imo first tes game with actual robust combat system present.

ShalidorsHeir

colossalvoids wrote: »

btw you got it the wrong way around - it is not a combat system sprinkled with some rpg elements - it is a role playing game in the first place, with has as well some combat - combat is not the main focus of this game at all and that is as well why it is not a souls-like combat, but more a casual "let's fight a little" type of combat - the main thing is the world of Tamriel and stories in it - not necessarily the main story line even - I guess a lot of us have not even completed that one and are still lacking their soul.

Wasn't the thing I was talking about at all. I was referring to the combat system alone and not the game at large being a sprinkle to it. It's a blend of other combat systems but feels like mostly diablo-like ARPG inspired. It's just a part of the game, but for some it's this exact game's strength and what's make it unique and satisfying in a sense. For me it's hard to look seriously on single player tes games combat systems after eso, I'm either ignoring it or mod the heck out of it to be also more arpg like (most combat and perk mods are going that direction also).

I actually disagree a lot with it being "let's fight a bit" style of combat, if you actually meant that and not about zenimax focusing on content they're generally provide (one not requiring any combat system utilisation - just click though stories). Vanilla Skyrim and Oblivion were ones that I'd describe like that. Equip the weapon with bigger DMG number and swing speed, click through the game while stories are playing out. Eso is way different to that and imo first tes game with actual robust combat system present.

Elder scrolls has never been mainly about RP mainly or whatever you would call this in 20 years. Elder scrolls games provide wide variety of content and ways on how to play this content to reach as much players as they can. Nothing is a special focus and thats why the community is that big. ESO first marketing focus was Cyrodiil which is PvP... just reminding you on that in case you all forgot.

Casdha

I have a simple suggestion and it is something that had already existed in game.

Bring back the occasional super trash mob (not quite a boss) and pepper them through out Tamriel.

My example, the morphed Welwa that use to be in Craglorn (may still be but I've not seen one in a long time).

You go to kill the trash group and just when you think they you are about done with a random group, boom you got an small bit of unexpected toughness to deal with (no where near boss level). If it catches you off guard and kills you, you simply use a soul gem and res in place and it is gone. Much like it use to be. Give them at least a purple zone item if you beat them.

CP5

Lysette wrote: »

---

btw you got it the wrong way around - it is not a combat system sprinkled with some rpg elements - it is a role playing game in the first place, with has as well some combat - combat is not the main focus of this game at all and that is as well why it is not a souls-like combat, but more a casual "let's fight a little" type of combat - the main thing is the world of Tamriel and stories in it - not necessarily the main story line even - I guess a lot of us have not even completed that one and are still lacking their soul.

---

And this is what hits me. If I am exploring the world, which I love doing, say I'm in the deadlands. The, Deadlands, a realm of a violent daedric prince and his most powerful and loyal minions. What do I remember most from my time there? Jumpping into a tornado. Not a sense of suspense venturing into this dangerous realm, not a moment pause when spotting a titan or roaming boss. I casually walked through there without a care in the world, a lack of threat killed the moment for me in this location.

As a counter example, I played Dragons Dogma a while ago, used this example before, but I feel it fits well here, but in that game nights are dark, and you only have a lantern to guide you. In those moments that night, eyes looking for any moment beyond my light, I felt genuine tension. There weren't any insanely powerful enemies about, just goblins and harpies, but the sheer fact that I wasn't able to see made that moment far more intense and memorable than all my times venturing in daedric planes in ESO the past few years. I didn't even get attacked, just the risk of it was enough to put me on edge.

Another part of elder scrolls games are the stories. ZOS loves their year-long stories, but when I know going into the year, after the Q1 reveal what the plot is, all I'm thinking in the back of my mind is "why don't these people just give me the big bad's home address, so I can kick his teeth in now and get it over with?" Every quest with the friendly npcs going on about the end of the world in what not becomes so disingenuous when I know the threat isn't serious. Dragons were serious, fight them in overland and see that for sure, so a dragon powered by the moon? Yeah, and actual threat. But when a pompous vampire stands exposed on a ledge going "you can ask ME a question, but I shall ask YOU one in return" like it was some sort of threat. No friend, I have arrows, and oh never mind, invisible wall. I can't care about the stakes in these stories when I know the driving force of the plot, stopping this day's threat, won't be a challenge but is just an inevitable thing that'll happen once I endure the mandatory number of main quest, filled with helpless npcs that couldn't bother helping themselves.

I can get why people enjoy the straight forward story, the power fantasy, the 'go anywhere and crush evil no matter what,' but I enjoy having to overcome obstacles. Those moments of facing a challenge and succeeding are far more memorable, and what do I have after doing a quest line where the world is just a color swapped field with some cardboard cutouts strewn about, clobbering some under equip 'big bad.' It's just forgettable, I remember my first time trying to go to Bleak falls Barrows after installing a survival mod, almost froze to death and had to chug alcohol to stave off hypothermia, that was memorable, but going to the front door, having the bandits open the way and the draugr death lord just casually hand you the stone. Well if that happened it would be so abnormal it would be memorable as well, but if it happened everywhere it wouldn't be.

ESO is a game, combat is a big part of it, the number of quest that revolve in no small part about saving people, killing people, taking things from people, and so on, it means that the way you interact with the world, primarily handled through combat, it heavily influences the experience users have. ZOS has normal and veteran content for all other pve content to provide options for those who prefer the game one way or the other, how is it too much to ask for the same courtesy to be given to the largest piece of content they provide? And in not, not directly at you but any who are against this idea, then should ZOS remove the option from other pve content? Make vet trials the only option? That's a bad idea in my opinion, just as limiting the ways people can enjoy the world of tamriel.

NightwindArcher

Hello ESO team!

I don't know how difficult this would be to implement... it may even be impossible? I was thinking it would be a really cool idea to have a veteran mode for quests.

The lore and story in ESO is top notch in my opinion. The best questing across any MMO out there! I really do love it. However, sometimes the big baddie at the end of the quest can be too easy to defeat. Many times the quest talks up how powerful a certain enemy is but that boss at the end of the quest ends up being a very easy fight.

Wouldn't it be cool if you could chose to do a quest on veteran difficulty? Where enemies are scaled up and are harder to kill?

I don't know if this is practical but it sure would be great! Thanks for listening!

Sylvermynx

One of the posters in this thread (@spartaxoxo) has suggested challenge banners for the quest bosses, similar to the dungeon hard mode scrolls. I realize nearly 70 pages is hard to read through, though her first post about it is Comment #22 on the first page of the thread.

silvereyes

Wow. People are really passionate about this!

Here's my perspective on the topic.

• I'm always disappointed by the gear rewards for delves and quests. They are trash. The XP for questing is decent, and skill points rewarded for main story quests are good, but the gear drops just feel insulting. It would be great if there were some sort of unique rewards for questing that didn't drop anywhere else.
• Delve and quest bosses are waaaaaaay too easy, even for a newbie player in trash gear spamming a single skill. They don't need to be punishing like a world boss, but they should hit hard enough to teach people to not stand in the red and to block, and they should last long enough to feel like you've achieved some sort of meaningful victory. They should be closer to the difficulty of something like a public dungeon boss, or maybe a little less.
• Please, for the love of God, get rid of delve bosses dropping Antiquities leads. Delves don't need campers.
• Trash mobs are fine where they are, difficulty wise. I expect them to melt when I'm decked out in decent gear and/or running with CP.
• I'm not a fan of segregating out vet and non vet overland zones.
• I wouldn't mind some sort of difficulty slider / debuff, if it came with increased rewards for more difficulty.

Lysette

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

ShalidorsHeir wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

ShalidorsHeir, that is all great, but you cannot expect that ZOS is catering to this kind of player level, because there might be too few of you to be worth the hassle - as bad as this is for you, you cannot expect this to happen.

This is like with me wanting a private instance - so far I did not get any response of someone saying, oh, yeah I would love this - so this is not going to happen either.

Lets focus on the original goal. Immersion in overland content. I dont ask for overland content as alternative to vet dungeons + hard mode. I just brought in some numbers to clarify the other side of the medal.

Hm I asked a few CP1000+ friends what kind of damage they do - that has been in the range of 20-25k dps - and they are quite average vet players (they themselves consider it to be that way). So if this would turn out to be average - you will still not be happy with an adjustment to this group, because you outdo them like 3-4 times - and it would still feel stale to you.

Not DD - they are healers or tanks.

I must ask: you said you only have chars around level 35. Have you yourself ever stepped foot in a normal dungeon? Just to experience the difficulty gap between "normal" overland and "normal" group content.

I cannot do group content - I have a ping between 240 and 360ms currently - other characters around make it even worse and it goes up to the point, that I could never escape the red - I would be a burden for others like this. The only "group" content I do, but without to be in a group is occasionally taking part in a dolmen or one of the ritual sites in Western Skyrim - so I might have an idea but as well not really, because I am basically on my own there - I don't receive any support, I do that just to see how well I can stand the incoming damage and how long I can support myself - this is standing in the red - not dodging or anything like this, because I just can't in time with this ping.

Lysette

ShalidorsHeir wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

ShalidorsHeir wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

ShalidorsHeir, that is all great, but you cannot expect that ZOS is catering to this kind of player level, because there might be too few of you to be worth the hassle - as bad as this is for you, you cannot expect this to happen.

This is like with me wanting a private instance - so far I did not get any response of someone saying, oh, yeah I would love this - so this is not going to happen either.

Lets focus on the original goal. Immersion in overland content. I dont ask for overland content as alternative to vet dungeons + hard mode. I just brought in some numbers to clarify the other side of the medal.

Hm I asked a few CP1000+ friends what kind of damage they do - that has been in the range of 20-25k dps - and they are quite average vet players (they themselves consider it to be that way). So if this would turn out to be average - you will still not be happy with an adjustment to this group, because you outdo them like 3-4 times - and it would still feel stale to you.

Not DD - they are healers or tanks.

I would be happy tho. Dont get me wrong - i dont want something to break my ass apart i request harder content for the sake of immersion -> a fight for 5 secs is not - a fight for 30 secs or even a minute (considering a quest boss for instance) is better - even you must agree that you would NOT be too upset about other players interferring your fight if the boss would not die within less than 10 secs, right? I mean, yes i outdo them - but it doesnt matter. ill still have a fight for 30 secs, a good way more immersive and remarkable than now, where others may fight for a minute. Everything is far better than < 10 secs where it also is getting on your nerves when other players are joining your (as you stated in multiple comments). Maybe this would not be the case if it was a remarkable fight, that can be fought alone as well as with a small group of players.

I am all for that - but the question is basically to what extend has it to be scaled - I might eventually dare to try it, if it is scaled to 20k dps - but if it is scaled to 80k, this is totally out of any reach for me for example - I don't expect to survive the 20k scale so, but it would be something I could work on to get better - like I said I do not even use potions yet and my gear is basically blue with purple enchants - I have lots of room to improve, if there is a need to improve, so far there is none - so I'm not totally averse to the idea of something harder, but I guess we all have quite different ideas to what "harder" actually means.

Lysette

ShalidorsHeir wrote: »

colossalvoids wrote: »

btw you got it the wrong way around - it is not a combat system sprinkled with some rpg elements - it is a role playing game in the first place, with has as well some combat - combat is not the main focus of this game at all and that is as well why it is not a souls-like combat, but more a casual "let's fight a little" type of combat - the main thing is the world of Tamriel and stories in it - not necessarily the main story line even - I guess a lot of us have not even completed that one and are still lacking their soul.

Wasn't the thing I was talking about at all. I was referring to the combat system alone and not the game at large being a sprinkle to it. It's a blend of other combat systems but feels like mostly diablo-like ARPG inspired. It's just a part of the game, but for some it's this exact game's strength and what's make it unique and satisfying in a sense. For me it's hard to look seriously on single player tes games combat systems after eso, I'm either ignoring it or mod the heck out of it to be also more arpg like (most combat and perk mods are going that direction also).

I actually disagree a lot with it being "let's fight a bit" style of combat, if you actually meant that and not about zenimax focusing on content they're generally provide (one not requiring any combat system utilisation - just click though stories). Vanilla Skyrim and Oblivion were ones that I'd describe like that. Equip the weapon with bigger DMG number and swing speed, click through the game while stories are playing out. Eso is way different to that and imo first tes game with actual robust combat system present.

Elder scrolls has never been mainly about RP mainly or whatever you would call this in 20 years. Elder scrolls games provide wide variety of content and ways on how to play this content to reach as much players as they can. Nothing is a special focus and thats why the community is that big. ESO first marketing focus was Cyrodiil which is PvP... just reminding you on that in case you all forgot.

but it is well tucked away in a ghetto from us casuals - doesn't that make you wonder?- It can't be the focus like this.

colossalvoids

Lysette wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

ShalidorsHeir wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

ShalidorsHeir, that is all great, but you cannot expect that ZOS is catering to this kind of player level, because there might be too few of you to be worth the hassle - as bad as this is for you, you cannot expect this to happen.

This is like with me wanting a private instance - so far I did not get any response of someone saying, oh, yeah I would love this - so this is not going to happen either.

Lets focus on the original goal. Immersion in overland content. I dont ask for overland content as alternative to vet dungeons + hard mode. I just brought in some numbers to clarify the other side of the medal.

Hm I asked a few CP1000+ friends what kind of damage they do - that has been in the range of 20-25k dps - and they are quite average vet players (they themselves consider it to be that way). So if this would turn out to be average - you will still not be happy with an adjustment to this group, because you outdo them like 3-4 times - and it would still feel stale to you.

Not DD - they are healers or tanks.

I must ask: you said you only have chars around level 35. Have you yourself ever stepped foot in a normal dungeon? Just to experience the difficulty gap between "normal" overland and "normal" group content.

I have a ping between 240 and 360ms currently - other characters around make it even worse and it goes up to the point, that I could never escape the red - I would be a burden for others like this.

Actually , if that's a stable numbers depending on a time of the day it's not really THAT hard of a gate to pass. Obviously it depends on other factors as well but if it's not spikes (from 240 to 360 every 10-20 sec) or constant disconnects due to it it's playable. I'm fairly sure of that as most eu payers had PTS ping of 200 at the very least and people from Asia and Australia having it as a "feature" while still managing to clear hardest content in the game. Personally there were periods when I was unable to commit at all or was struggling to insane desync's in raids due to high ping (240+ and to the moon at that time) but it's manageable, even if it spiked in my case.

Fairly sure if you'd put your time into understanding how to work around your latency issues it would pay off greatly.

Lysette

CP5 wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

---

btw you got it the wrong way around - it is not a combat system sprinkled with some rpg elements - it is a role playing game in the first place, with has as well some combat - combat is not the main focus of this game at all and that is as well why it is not a souls-like combat, but more a casual "let's fight a little" type of combat - the main thing is the world of Tamriel and stories in it - not necessarily the main story line even - I guess a lot of us have not even completed that one and are still lacking their soul.

---

And this is what hits me. If I am exploring the world, which I love doing, say I'm in the deadlands. The, Deadlands, a realm of a violent daedric prince and his most powerful and loyal minions. What do I remember most from my time there? Jumpping into a tornado. Not a sense of suspense venturing into this dangerous realm, not a moment pause when spotting a titan or roaming boss. I casually walked through there without a care in the world, a lack of threat killed the moment for me in this location.

As a counter example, I played Dragons Dogma a while ago, used this example before, but I feel it fits well here, but in that game nights are dark, and you only have a lantern to guide you. In those moments that night, eyes looking for any moment beyond my light, I felt genuine tension. There weren't any insanely powerful enemies about, just goblins and harpies, but the sheer fact that I wasn't able to see made that moment far more intense and memorable than all my times venturing in daedric planes in ESO the past few years. I didn't even get attacked, just the risk of it was enough to put me on edge.

Another part of elder scrolls games are the stories. ZOS loves their year-long stories, but when I know going into the year, after the Q1 reveal what the plot is, all I'm thinking in the back of my mind is "why don't these people just give me the big bad's home address, so I can kick his teeth in now and get it over with?" Every quest with the friendly npcs going on about the end of the world in what not becomes so disingenuous when I know the threat isn't serious. Dragons were serious, fight them in overland and see that for sure, so a dragon powered by the moon? Yeah, and actual threat. But when a pompous vampire stands exposed on a ledge going "you can ask ME a question, but I shall ask YOU one in return" like it was some sort of threat. No friend, I have arrows, and oh never mind, invisible wall. I can't care about the stakes in these stories when I know the driving force of the plot, stopping this day's threat, won't be a challenge but is just an inevitable thing that'll happen once I endure the mandatory number of main quest, filled with helpless npcs that couldn't bother helping themselves.

I can get why people enjoy the straight forward story, the power fantasy, the 'go anywhere and crush evil no matter what,' but I enjoy having to overcome obstacles. Those moments of facing a challenge and succeeding are far more memorable, and what do I have after doing a quest line where the world is just a color swapped field with some cardboard cutouts strewn about, clobbering some under equip 'big bad.' It's just forgettable, I remember my first time trying to go to Bleak falls Barrows after installing a survival mod, almost froze to death and had to chug alcohol to stave off hypothermia, that was memorable, but going to the front door, having the bandits open the way and the draugr death lord just casually hand you the stone. Well if that happened it would be so abnormal it would be memorable as well, but if it happened everywhere it wouldn't be.

ESO is a game, combat is a big part of it, the number of quest that revolve in no small part about saving people, killing people, taking things from people, and so on, it means that the way you interact with the world, primarily handled through combat, it heavily influences the experience users have. ZOS has normal and veteran content for all other pve content to provide options for those who prefer the game one way or the other, how is it too much to ask for the same courtesy to be given to the largest piece of content they provide? And in not, not directly at you but any who are against this idea, then should ZOS remove the option from other pve content? Make vet trials the only option? That's a bad idea in my opinion, just as limiting the ways people can enjoy the world of tamriel.

I'm not really against the idea - I just fear it might interfere with my gameplay and make it worse - having lots of people around launches my ping in regions, where I can just stop playing, because I cannot react but have to anticipate what might happen and react before it has happened, that is guess work and no immersive gameplay anymore - I have to avoid people as much as I possibly can to have fun in this game while I explore or do a quest - others around make my experience really bad.

Lysette

colossalvoids wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

ShalidorsHeir wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

ShalidorsHeir, that is all great, but you cannot expect that ZOS is catering to this kind of player level, because there might be too few of you to be worth the hassle - as bad as this is for you, you cannot expect this to happen.

This is like with me wanting a private instance - so far I did not get any response of someone saying, oh, yeah I would love this - so this is not going to happen either.

Lets focus on the original goal. Immersion in overland content. I dont ask for overland content as alternative to vet dungeons + hard mode. I just brought in some numbers to clarify the other side of the medal.

Hm I asked a few CP1000+ friends what kind of damage they do - that has been in the range of 20-25k dps - and they are quite average vet players (they themselves consider it to be that way). So if this would turn out to be average - you will still not be happy with an adjustment to this group, because you outdo them like 3-4 times - and it would still feel stale to you.

Not DD - they are healers or tanks.

I must ask: you said you only have chars around level 35. Have you yourself ever stepped foot in a normal dungeon? Just to experience the difficulty gap between "normal" overland and "normal" group content.

I have a ping between 240 and 360ms currently - other characters around make it even worse and it goes up to the point, that I could never escape the red - I would be a burden for others like this.

Actually , if that's a stable numbers depending on a time of the day it's not really THAT hard of a gate to pass. Obviously it depends on other factors as well but if it's not spikes (from 240 to 360 every 10-20 sec) or constant disconnects due to it it's playable. I'm fairly sure of that as most eu payers had PTS ping of 200 at the very least and people from Asia and Australia having it as a "feature" while still managing to clear hardest content in the game. Personally there were periods when I was unable to commit at all or was struggling to insane desync's in raids due to high ping (240+ and to the moon at that time) but it's manageable, even if it spiked in my case.

Fairly sure if you'd put your time into understanding how to work around your latency issues it would pay off greatly.

Staying clear of people is what gives me 240-260ms - then I can play rather well - but as soon as other are around it gets really bad and I can forget to have fun - I have to stay clear of people. And if you guys are flooding overland with hefty combat, this is likely to ruin my gameplay - that is what I fear.

colossalvoids

Lysette wrote: »

colossalvoids wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

ShalidorsHeir wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

ShalidorsHeir, that is all great, but you cannot expect that ZOS is catering to this kind of player level, because there might be too few of you to be worth the hassle - as bad as this is for you, you cannot expect this to happen.

This is like with me wanting a private instance - so far I did not get any response of someone saying, oh, yeah I would love this - so this is not going to happen either.

Lets focus on the original goal. Immersion in overland content. I dont ask for overland content as alternative to vet dungeons + hard mode. I just brought in some numbers to clarify the other side of the medal.

Hm I asked a few CP1000+ friends what kind of damage they do - that has been in the range of 20-25k dps - and they are quite average vet players (they themselves consider it to be that way). So if this would turn out to be average - you will still not be happy with an adjustment to this group, because you outdo them like 3-4 times - and it would still feel stale to you.

Not DD - they are healers or tanks.

I must ask: you said you only have chars around level 35. Have you yourself ever stepped foot in a normal dungeon? Just to experience the difficulty gap between "normal" overland and "normal" group content.

I have a ping between 240 and 360ms currently - other characters around make it even worse and it goes up to the point, that I could never escape the red - I would be a burden for others like this.

Actually , if that's a stable numbers depending on a time of the day it's not really THAT hard of a gate to pass. Obviously it depends on other factors as well but if it's not spikes (from 240 to 360 every 10-20 sec) or constant disconnects due to it it's playable. I'm fairly sure of that as most eu payers had PTS ping of 200 at the very least and people from Asia and Australia having it as a "feature" while still managing to clear hardest content in the game. Personally there were periods when I was unable to commit at all or was struggling to insane desync's in raids due to high ping (240+ and to the moon at that time) but it's manageable, even if it spiked in my case.

Fairly sure if you'd put your time into understanding how to work around your latency issues it would pay off greatly.

Staying clear of people is what gives me 240-260ms - then I can play rather well - but as soon as other are around it gets really bad and I can forget to have fun - I have to stay clear of people. And if you guys are flooding overland with hefty combat, this is likely to ruin my gameplay - that is what I fear.

If we'll move to some veteran version of it whatever it might be it would surely help you as some of us are here because we have no options to not be.

Lysette

colossalvoids wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

colossalvoids wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

ShalidorsHeir wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

ShalidorsHeir, that is all great, but you cannot expect that ZOS is catering to this kind of player level, because there might be too few of you to be worth the hassle - as bad as this is for you, you cannot expect this to happen.

This is like with me wanting a private instance - so far I did not get any response of someone saying, oh, yeah I would love this - so this is not going to happen either.

Lets focus on the original goal. Immersion in overland content. I dont ask for overland content as alternative to vet dungeons + hard mode. I just brought in some numbers to clarify the other side of the medal.

Hm I asked a few CP1000+ friends what kind of damage they do - that has been in the range of 20-25k dps - and they are quite average vet players (they themselves consider it to be that way). So if this would turn out to be average - you will still not be happy with an adjustment to this group, because you outdo them like 3-4 times - and it would still feel stale to you.

Not DD - they are healers or tanks.

I must ask: you said you only have chars around level 35. Have you yourself ever stepped foot in a normal dungeon? Just to experience the difficulty gap between "normal" overland and "normal" group content.

I have a ping between 240 and 360ms currently - other characters around make it even worse and it goes up to the point, that I could never escape the red - I would be a burden for others like this.

Actually , if that's a stable numbers depending on a time of the day it's not really THAT hard of a gate to pass. Obviously it depends on other factors as well but if it's not spikes (from 240 to 360 every 10-20 sec) or constant disconnects due to it it's playable. I'm fairly sure of that as most eu payers had PTS ping of 200 at the very least and people from Asia and Australia having it as a "feature" while still managing to clear hardest content in the game. Personally there were periods when I was unable to commit at all or was struggling to insane desync's in raids due to high ping (240+ and to the moon at that time) but it's manageable, even if it spiked in my case.

Fairly sure if you'd put your time into understanding how to work around your latency issues it would pay off greatly.

Staying clear of people is what gives me 240-260ms - then I can play rather well - but as soon as other are around it gets really bad and I can forget to have fun - I have to stay clear of people. And if you guys are flooding overland with hefty combat, this is likely to ruin my gameplay - that is what I fear.

If we'll move to some veteran version of it whatever it might be it would surely help you as some of us are here because we have no options to not be.

absolutely, if you would get your own instance, I would be a happy camper - but I guess in the end we will have it all in the same instance, because ZOS doesn't want separate instances. But we will see about that - I wish you well for that.

As far as group content is concerned, it doesn't interfere with my gameplay anyway, I'm not doing group content by those reasons I mentioned. And those ritual sites are big enough, that I can be on a side where nearly no one is - so this is possible as well - I'm not doing that badly there, it is all ok until I run out of resources - but that can be fixed, if I would use potions - so I'm hopeful that I can participate there, even I'm on my own - and I prefer to be on my own, not relying on anyone.

colossalvoids

Lysette wrote: »

colossalvoids wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

colossalvoids wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

ShalidorsHeir wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

ShalidorsHeir, that is all great, but you cannot expect that ZOS is catering to this kind of player level, because there might be too few of you to be worth the hassle - as bad as this is for you, you cannot expect this to happen.

This is like with me wanting a private instance - so far I did not get any response of someone saying, oh, yeah I would love this - so this is not going to happen either.

Lets focus on the original goal. Immersion in overland content. I dont ask for overland content as alternative to vet dungeons + hard mode. I just brought in some numbers to clarify the other side of the medal.

Hm I asked a few CP1000+ friends what kind of damage they do - that has been in the range of 20-25k dps - and they are quite average vet players (they themselves consider it to be that way). So if this would turn out to be average - you will still not be happy with an adjustment to this group, because you outdo them like 3-4 times - and it would still feel stale to you.

Not DD - they are healers or tanks.

I must ask: you said you only have chars around level 35. Have you yourself ever stepped foot in a normal dungeon? Just to experience the difficulty gap between "normal" overland and "normal" group content.

I have a ping between 240 and 360ms currently - other characters around make it even worse and it goes up to the point, that I could never escape the red - I would be a burden for others like this.

Actually , if that's a stable numbers depending on a time of the day it's not really THAT hard of a gate to pass. Obviously it depends on other factors as well but if it's not spikes (from 240 to 360 every 10-20 sec) or constant disconnects due to it it's playable. I'm fairly sure of that as most eu payers had PTS ping of 200 at the very least and people from Asia and Australia having it as a "feature" while still managing to clear hardest content in the game. Personally there were periods when I was unable to commit at all or was struggling to insane desync's in raids due to high ping (240+ and to the moon at that time) but it's manageable, even if it spiked in my case.

Fairly sure if you'd put your time into understanding how to work around your latency issues it would pay off greatly.

Staying clear of people is what gives me 240-260ms - then I can play rather well - but as soon as other are around it gets really bad and I can forget to have fun - I have to stay clear of people. And if you guys are flooding overland with hefty combat, this is likely to ruin my gameplay - that is what I fear.

If we'll move to some veteran version of it whatever it might be it would surely help you as some of us are here because we have no options to not be.

absolutely, if you would get your own instance, I would be a happy camper - but I guess in the end we will have it all in the same instance, because ZOS doesn't want separate instances. But we will see about that - I wish you well for that.

As far as group content is concerned, it doesn't interfere with my gameplay anyway, I'm not doing group content by those reasons I mentioned.

We already have it kinda in the same spot - dragons, storms etc are considered "a hard content that we should be doing" but we don't particularly because it's just a couple dots on a map of the same copied content that probably would be zerged anyway to bother even a little.

For me personally same instance wouldn't solve anything, though I recommended changing instanced encounters (and implementing a lot more of them in the future) to have various difficulties like others also mentioned.

CP5

Lysette wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

---

I'm not really against the idea - I just fear it might interfere with my gameplay and make it worse - having lots of people around launches my ping in regions, where I can just stop playing, because I cannot react but have to anticipate what might happen and react before it has happened, that is guess work and no immersive gameplay anymore - I have to avoid people as much as I possibly can to have fun in this game while I explore or do a quest - others around make my experience really bad.

A very good point. Some users when I previously talked about this didn't understand instancing, with one even suggesting that we couldn't do vet instances because "what if zos wanted all the people to play together (aka being in one instance with each other)." The idea is that the game already subdivides populated zones to maintain sane player counts, and for dungeons and trials these different instances can have different rules applied to them. The reason why I harp on this idea is that by adding a new rule set to overland, like the old silver and gold zones had, and allowing new instances to be generated for users opting into these, you would be able to have a variation of overland for those interested, leave the content people already enjoy untouched, and maintain the sensible player levels making it so essentially, from your view, little would even change.

Sylvermynx

CP5 wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

---

I'm not really against the idea - I just fear it might interfere with my gameplay and make it worse - having lots of people around launches my ping in regions, where I can just stop playing, because I cannot react but have to anticipate what might happen and react before it has happened, that is guess work and no immersive gameplay anymore - I have to avoid people as much as I possibly can to have fun in this game while I explore or do a quest - others around make my experience really bad.

A very good point. Some users when I previously talked about this didn't understand instancing, with one even suggesting that we couldn't do vet instances because "what if zos wanted all the people to play together (aka being in one instance with each other)." The idea is that the game already subdivides populated zones to maintain sane player counts, and for dungeons and trials these different instances can have different rules applied to them. The reason why I harp on this idea is that by adding a new rule set to overland, like the old silver and gold zones had, and allowing new instances to be generated for users opting into these, you would be able to have a variation of overland for those interested, leave the content people already enjoy untouched, and maintain the sensible player levels making it so essentially, from your view, little would even change.

And that's also a very good explication of how that would work. There may have been other posts which attempted to explain (or DID explain), but damn - almost 70 pages, and I KNOW I've missed posts in between.... If that could happen, it would be perfect for people like Lysette and me (with 750+ ms ping - I never do group content either for the obvious reason I'm not going to expect people to put up with that). I was really thinking already (some pages long back now!) that a vet overland instance would be the most logical way to work this for everyone.

spartaxoxo

I am writing this post as a final summary of my personal experience in ESO, without suggestions or anything. Just how I personally feel about why I want a vet overland.

First a little bit about me. I am someone who has been gaming for years, since I was old enough to hold a controller and was beating the very first Sonic game. When I was a teenager, I used to be able to spend hours and hours doing any kind of challenging content I wanted. I would pick punishing things to do in games, and makeup various challenges for myself if the game wasn't hard enough. I also come from a gaming family and have RL friends that game, my brothers, father, and cousins all play video games, some of them this one and I group up with them sometimes. One of them is now 100% disabled, and we play this game together.

Now that I am older, I find that my reaction time and even the health of my hands aren't what they used to be. Sometimes it's just painful to play much of any game that day. And some days, I'm like totally fine to play and do whatever I feel like doing! Oftentimes, the thing I do during that time is something a bit harder, but not always.

So some days I want a challenge and some days I really do not. And I don't want to be punished by having my account locked out of achievements and the like for days that I don't feel like engaging in an challenge and am looking for the relaxing pace and ease of doing the current overland while listening to some great stories.

I also like grouping with my family member, who can't do the harder stuff well. Sometimes our group is me bringing out a stronger character and they just follow me around while I kill group bosses or help them see normal dungeons. Others I just like help them decorate his house. What we don't really do, and found we couldn't do, is quest together. This is because I'm always either strong for him to enjoy it, or I am on my Khajiit who is built for stealing. And while that can be fun, it also feels kinda lame because I get nothing out of it. She's never gonna use better gear or all those skill or champion points. She is a sneak thief, that's all there is to it. But she's the only one underpowered enough to make the questing enjoyable.

I also help random newbies out with stuff, and I can tell they get disappointed if I'm on a character too strong and just blow things up.

I'd like to be able to group with my main more often, so it feels like there's still a point to doing overland with others who aren't blowing it up too quickly. I think it would enhance my enjoyment of it if I could seek a challenge and still group well with others. I love how this game has content for all different types of people, and I wouldn't that to be lost. I think the game this game also has one of the best communities, and that it's one of our strongest assets. I'd like to get more challenge for myself (sometimes) without messing with any of that, because I truly think it's a beautiful thing.

That's how I personally feel.

Ronin37

Yeah I think these 69 pages sum up why the MMO world needs a return of EQ for those of us that enjoy a good engaging PVE exp.

Lysette

Something I never really understood is - if ESO is originally meant to be something like "Oblivion/Skyrim with a friend", why content is not scaling to a group then - I mean most of the content in overland can be soloed - but it gets ridiculously easy if one would play it together with a friend - and now even with companions on top of it. I want to get my characters a companion as well, but then again, will this eventually not make my gameplay worse - I'm interested into the role play implementation of them - if they have own personalities, this could be interesting - but I would most likely have them around helping me out, in order to level them up - what if that is too much help and would take away from my enjoyment of the game?

I had this issue already with my sorcerers and wardens - that is why my sorcerers have no pets anymore and my wardens rarely summon their bears. My characters are not afraid to go for up close and personal, they do not really need someone taking the beating for them.

FlopsyPrince

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

I would be quite fine if ZOS made something here, but I would also like to see many long-standing bugs fixed first at least (such as marking the ladders properly with quest markers in IC.

Don't fool yourself. If they'd delay new content until every long standing bug is resolved, we'd be gray before the next DLC hit. With a game of this magnitude and the plan to rewrite fundamental parts of the code bug fixing is a never-ending work. Killer argument, so to say.

I have written enough code and dealt with enough large systems to know that debugging often takes the same skills as greenfield development (or modifications) to do well.

They need to address a few of these, at least knocking a few out each release, instead of just ignoring them. Something like this would take time that could go to harder overland content, so it is a valid factor to consider.

I would agree they are unlikely to address them, since they have been around so long, but dev time is still a finite resource.

FlopsyPrince

Lysette wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

I would be quite fine if ZOS made something here, but I would also like to see many long-standing bugs fixed first at least (such as marking the ladders properly with quest markers in IC.

Don't fool yourself. If they'd delay new content until every long standing bug is resolved, we'd be gray before the next DLC hit. With a game of this magnitude and the plan to rewrite fundamental parts of the code bug fixing is a never-ending work. Killer argument, so to say.

Yeah and it is quite normal to just let bugs in the game, if they do not effect a lot of people or are just rarely happening - take windows with it's roughly 250,000 unfixed bugs - it works most of the time, and fixing those, might introduce new bugs. In average development and bug fixing stops when it is "good enough" by that very reason.

The improper quest markers in AD impact 1/3rd of the factions in the game pretty seriously. Following the quest markers routes you through someone else's base.