Dark convergence nerf

Larcomar

What's people's take on the dark convergence nerf? Are we likely to see less of it next patch or is it still going to be everywhere? And is it likely to be less disruptive? Still sitting on 14m Ap so no pressing need to go back into Cyro, but kind of miss it...

McTaterskins

Larcomar wrote: »

What's people's take on the dark convergence nerf? Are we likely to see less of it next patch or is it still going to be everywhere? And is it likely to be less disruptive? Still sitting on 14m Ap so no pressing need to go back into Cyro, but kind of miss it...

According to most content poster reviews etc. and vids I've watched: It's going to be worse.

The new graphics of it will cause more performance issues and anomalies.
It still does not follow CC immunity rules as the stun is still at the "end" of the pull. So ping-ponging still exists.
Desync, Rubber Band, LoS issues still exist.

They do have those final tweaks of course on the final patch that's submitted, I guess. But we'll see.

Really, they should just get rid of the pull, speed the nuke up to 2 seconds and make the 3m core of it 5. Call it a day.

It would still work great. You'd just actually have to coordinate something with your group. Like using Vat SnB's and class skills to pull people in etc. Or to annihilate congested choke points. Would also then make it less terrible when seen in BGs.

xDeusEJRx

People will still run it, there's no more double pulling so it's far less irritating. But the damage will be more obnoxious to people who run groups. Against solos it seems like it'll be better, but group v group will be really bad because of the 50% scaling per target(rip anyone who plays bgs, its gonna be worse than it is now). They also lowered the aoe radius too, but ultimately it will most likely get worse just because it scales up way more now.
I personally think increasing damage scaling is a good idea per target, but 50% per target seems really excessive cause it'll do lots of damage to small groups even.
Anyways the procalypse isn't over guys, it's just evolving

gamma71

So basically you won't get ping ponged but will die faster because of damage scaling wow that's brilliant well at least people won't be complaining about running outa stam trying to break free because they will be dead .

Tommy_The_Gun

I suspect that the "nerf" will be not enough. In fact it is a nerf in some stations, but a buff in the others (actually majority lol).

I suspect that as long as this set has AOE pull (it does not have a target cap too) - it will be used by pretty much any player that wants to remain competitive.

There is a reason why we don't have a lot of "pull" abilities in ESO, and none of them (not even ultimates) have AOE pull.

Larcomar

Oh dear.... I'm really starting to wonder if zos is deliberately trying to run greyhost into the ground so everyone just gives up and quits or goes to Raven. I mean, I get it, it's way less work to balance pvp if there's no cp, only basic sets and no funky stuff like the hammer. But I've kind of done my time in newbie pvp. And it gets old fast.

That said, I've still got the greymoor chapter to finish and thinking about taking trials more seriously; at the rate I go that'll keep me busy a while. It would be nice if ESOo scratched the pvp itch too, but then you can't really expect one game to do everything. Anyway, thanks for the advice; was hoping it would be a different conclusion but I appreciate the honesty

Larc

ps On the bright side, if I do run out of AP, at least it's easy to make more. Rocking chudan, rattlecage and DC, my DK only needs to press one button every fifteen seconds and the kills just roll in. It's not exactly what I had in mind, but it at least makes Ap fast, and you can do something else while you "pvp"....

Wuuffyy

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

People will still run it, there's no more double pulling so it's far less irritating. But the damage will be more obnoxious to people who run groups. Against solos it seems like it'll be better, but group v group will be really bad because of the 50% scaling per target(rip anyone who plays bgs, its gonna be worse than it is now). They also lowered the aoe radius too, but ultimately it will most likely get worse just because it scales up way more now.
I personally think increasing damage scaling is a good idea per target, but 50% per target seems really excessive cause it'll do lots of damage to small groups even.
Anyways the procalypse isn't over guys, it's just evolving

Well it’s meant to counter groups. It’s a shame that groups tend to get more use out of it though.

Wuuffyy

Wolf_Watching wrote: »

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

People will still run it, there's no more double pulling so it's far less irritating. But the damage will be more obnoxious to people who run groups. Against solos it seems like it'll be better, but group v group will be really bad because of the 50% scaling per target(rip anyone who plays bgs, its gonna be worse than it is now). They also lowered the aoe radius too, but ultimately it will most likely get worse just because it scales up way more now.
I personally think increasing damage scaling is a good idea per target, but 50% per target seems really excessive cause it'll do lots of damage to small groups even.
Anyways the procalypse isn't over guys, it's just evolving

Well it’s meant to counter groups. It’s a shame that groups tend to get more use out of it though.

Think we’ll have to wait till next patch and see. A lot of people will still have it on from last patch at the beginning so we may still see it everywhere. The best thing you can do if you see that it isn’t near as cheesy, is tell other players that as well so they stop running it as they are only concerned about doing the most cheesy thing they can due to lack of personal skill.

doesurmindglow

I think it's still gonna be too strong and probably continue to wreak havoc, especially in situations where zergs or ball groups are running it against solo players. The damage scaling and pull reduction isn't enough to resolve the issues with the set, which are really more fundamental and rooted in the fact that so many people are running it and it doesn't proc the traditional cc immunity, which is to say that after getting pulled by the set, another player applying it can easily make it so you get pulled again right away.

Put simply, you'll have less damage against a solo player, sure, and less ability to pull them in, but it's still going to be highly advantageous for a large group to be running it and applying it multiple times to the same player. Which is, if we're being honest, what everyone hates.

It needs to not pull, not stun, or not do damage. The stun and pull alone would probably be ubiquitous and extremely annoying, tbh. But anything short of that is probably going to remain dramatically overperforming.

ebix_

let me explain to you how zos end up destroying a set step by step .

1. they introduce an obviously broken set
2. people complain but zos dont listen
3. they release the set in live server and it breaks the game
4. people keep complaining
6. zos realises they [snip] up
7. zos thinks they can fix it <== we are here
8. the change goes live and make things worse
9. people keep complaining
10. zos gives up and nerf the set to the ground
11. they repeat this with another idea

we are almost there just hang on a little more

[edited for profanity bypass]

Alchimiste1

friendly reminder to @ zos that there is still time to completely gut dark convergence or at the very least gut the pull (not buff like on pts) so that pvp will be fun next patch

Wuuffyy

doesurmindglow wrote: »

I think it's still gonna be too strong and probably continue to wreak havoc, especially in situations where zergs or ball groups are running it against solo players. The damage scaling and pull reduction isn't enough to resolve the issues with the set, which are really more fundamental and rooted in the fact that so many people are running it and it doesn't proc the traditional cc immunity, which is to say that after getting pulled by the set, another player applying it can easily make it so you get pulled again right away.

Put simply, you'll have less damage against a solo player, sure, and less ability to pull them in, but it's still going to be highly advantageous for a large group to be running it and applying it multiple times to the same player. Which is, if we're being honest, what everyone hates.

It needs to not pull, not stun, or not do damage. The stun and pull alone would probably be ubiquitous and extremely annoying, tbh. But anything short of that is probably going to remain dramatically overperforming.

Just thought of something that keeps it useful for solo players, why not make it where we can only be afflicted by a dark convergence pull every 15 or 30 seconds per player?

It does have counters, especially when not spammed. The current problem despite those, it's everywhere (constantly), and it's a serious stam check due to that. This solution would solve that problem while maintaining the important group wiping potential of the set.

Vaoh

If classes ever got a 4th class skill line, Dark Convergence would have been an excellent candidate for a Sorcerer ultimate.

But as a set? This was so obviously a bad idea lol.

Larcomar

ebix_ wrote: »

let me explain to you how zos end up destroying a set step by step .

1. they introduce an obviously broken set
2. people complain but zos dont listen
3. they release the set in live server and it breaks the game
4. people keep complaining
6. zos realises they [snip] up
7. zos thinks they can fix it <== we are here
8. the change goes live and make things worse
9. people keep complaining
10. zos gives up and nerf the set to the ground
11. they repeat this with another idea

we are almost there just hang on a little more

[edited for profanity bypass]

That sounds... depressingly accurate. I mean, sure, it's progress I guess. But it's going to take at least another patch, another three months. And worse, it just keeps happening.

Over last year, we've had all the tests, then the no proc fiasco, then the climbdown, and then the last 3 months. It's, literally, a new thing every patch and we've had maybe 3 months of decent pvp out of a whole year.

People keep banging on saying they need to put more resources into pvp. I'm starting to wonder if it's actually the opposite. Maybe they should just roll the server back pre dark convergence - I think most liked the last patch - move the pvp team to other projects and leave it be...

Jaraal

Larcomar wrote: »

What's people's take on the dark convergence nerf?

If you think the changes are a nerf, I got sum bad newz....

Syrpynt

Wolf_Watching wrote: »

Just thought of something that keeps it useful for solo players, why not make it where we can only be afflicted by a dark convergence pull every 15 or 30 seconds per player?

It does have counters, especially when not spammed. The current problem despite those, it's everywhere (constantly), and it's a serious stam check due to that. This solution would solve that problem while maintaining the important group wiping potential of the set.

Well, the counter solution would be fine if it wasn't checking so many players. We want the server to do as little calculations as possible to reduce lag for everyone.

My problems with the set are:
It is usually coordinated such that the pull is all that is needed and other players have enough time to simply drop all their aoes in the center to kill everyone before the explosion. It's smart, but it also forces players to use mic-chat to counter, since there's no other counter than to simply avoid everyone in your group.

I like the idea of the set.
But:
• During the pull, players can't defend, yet they can take damage? And since the pull doesn't give warning, there's no way to defend against it.

Wuuffyy

Syrpynt wrote: »

Wolf_Watching wrote: »

Just thought of something that keeps it useful for solo players, why not make it where we can only be afflicted by a dark convergence pull every 15 or 30 seconds per player?

It does have counters, especially when not spammed. The current problem despite those, it's everywhere (constantly), and it's a serious stam check due to that. This solution would solve that problem while maintaining the important group wiping potential of the set.

Well, the counter solution would be fine if it wasn't checking so many players. We want the server to do as little calculations as possible to reduce lag for everyone.

My problems with the set are:
It is usually coordinated such that the pull is all that is needed and other players have enough time to simply drop all their aoes in the center to kill everyone before the explosion. It's smart, but it also forces players to use mic-chat to counter, since there's no other counter than to simply avoid everyone in your group.

I like the idea of the set.
But:
• During the pull, players can't defend, yet they can take damage? And since the pull doesn't give warning, there's no way to defend against it.

If that was the case. They wouldn’t have had procs in such a nice spot and then came out with more and then made them crit, unfortunately.

Truthfully, the set never should have been released, especially with how intensive it is. But after seeing in, it does have the potential to be useful for Zerg busting which is much needed.

Kory

As long as it still has no respect for any CC immunity on any consistent basis, and still pulls from outside it's range, delayed enemy AOE indicators resulting in limited counterplay as you sometimes can't see the proc....then it's still a perfectly balanced set, especially for PvP.

Sandman929

Still gonna be everywhere in Cyrodiil. No matter how many of us would like it to be otherwise, Cyrodiil is zerg V zerg 90% of the time and Convergence is the ultimate zerg set.

lunaslide

Ball groups will lay one down one after the other, chasing as few as one player around the top of a keep, then reverse and go toward the players trying to hit from the other side, until they've wiped everyone out. The cooldown increase will do nothing to change this.

CameraBeardThePirate

It won't do anything. Not because DC needs a bigger nerf, but because Rush of Agony is a much more problematic set and once people realize that you'll just see more people running Rush over DC.

neferpitou73

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

It won't do anything. Not because DC needs a bigger nerf, but because Rush of Agony is a much more problematic set and once people realize that you'll just see more people running Rush over DC.

Or just put them on the same build ^_^

Seriously tho we should be calling for dark convergence to get a major buff...so they nerf it into the ground next patch.

ZOS_Hadeostry

Greetings,

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