The saddest thing about PVP in ESO

MikeSkyrim333

That the skill of most players is determined not by actual skill, but by sets

Dark convergence, proc sets and etc. Just press one button and set will do the rest

Pauwer

Yes, for example on console all emps from all factions are total neverheards, all necro dark con users. It truly a sad time for us all.

LeonAkando

This is set is being nerfed into oblivion in three days. How is that you guys are still complaining about this?

EF321

Pauwer wrote: »

Yes, for example on console all emps from all factions are total neverheards, all necro dark con users. It truly a sad time for us all.

That sounds better than Thews permablock emp before scaling changes or bomber emp...

Stanx

Is there something wrong with Dark Convergence? Wow first I've heard of it

Alarde

I feel sorry for anyone who still hopes the PvP will improve someday.

BXR_Lonestar

MikeSkyrim333 wrote: »

That the skill of most players is determined not by actual skill, but by sets

Dark convergence, proc sets and etc. Just press one button and set will do the rest

I'm not great at PVP, but I got to stand up for those that are legitimately good at it. Yes, there are a lot of players out there that are getting carried by their sets and not their skills, but the TRULY GOOD players will simply fight you into a stalemate or beat you not because of their sets, but because of their movement and tactics in combination with their sets. Sometimes the skill is in knowing how to get the most out of your build.

For example, I've seen some players who 1v5+ players and won, in part, because he kept using cover to dodge ultimates or attacks, buy him time to heal up, and then he just slowly whittled away the group until none were left. Strong sets certainly helped, but if he went into that fight JUST thinking his sets would carry him - sorry, but your going to lose 1v5 with that mentality. Its the combination of sets + knowing your build that makes the truly good PVP players so great. And many of them aren't always on the leaderboards week in and week out.

Faulgor

Aren't there no proc sets campaigns now?
I remember them ruining my home campaign with that new ruleset some time back.

jedtb16_ESO

MikeSkyrim333 wrote: »

That the skill of most players is determined not by actual skill, but by sets

Dark convergence, proc sets and etc. Just press one button and set will do the rest

using a controller, having nimble fingers and bouncing around like a kangaroo on speed is not skill.

Vevvev

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

MikeSkyrim333 wrote: »

That the skill of most players is determined not by actual skill, but by sets

Dark convergence, proc sets and etc. Just press one button and set will do the rest

using a controller, having nimble fingers and bouncing around like a kangaroo on speed is not skill.

The quick fingers and twitchy muscle memory does though. Not so much the controller and jumping.

Thecompton73

Vevvev wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

MikeSkyrim333 wrote: »

That the skill of most players is determined not by actual skill, but by sets

Dark convergence, proc sets and etc. Just press one button and set will do the rest

using a controller, having nimble fingers and bouncing around like a kangaroo on speed is not skill.

The quick fingers and twitchy muscle memory does though. Not so much the controller and jumping.

Agree, nimble fingers are definitely part of the skill equation in an action game. For those types of games using the controller is like playing guitar or piano, you can practice forever but if you don't have the required finger dexterity you'll never be truly great.

SkaraMinoc

Yes and no. Sets will only get you so far. High skill player with inferior sets will beat low skill player with superior sets majority of the time. It's not about which sets you pick but what you do with them.

- This lesson was brought to you by Skara PvP University

TequilaFire

What is truly sad is they gave you guys a no proc campaign but you post complaints on forum instead of using it.
All this constant complaining is doing PvP in and makes it hard for anyone to want to make improvements.

SkaraMinoc

MikeSkyrim333 wrote: »

Dark convergence, proc sets and etc. Just press one button and set will do the rest

The problem is many players still haven't figured out you can..

1) hold down block
2) dodge roll out
3) mist form out
4) elude up and laugh as DC does nothing to you
5) streak/charge/leap out

I can't believe how many players stand on top of the DC orb helpless, not knowing what to do.

The damage is high w/ Dark Convergence but the double pull from 12 meters out is the main problem. It's a positional disadvantage that makes you vulnerable to huge Dawnbreakers, Necro bursts, etc.

The occasional lava pull is pretty funny and lots of WTF moments getting pulled through walls/stairs. Most teams I see using Dark Convergence end up losing battlegrounds anyways, at least against other teams with good healers.

None of this matters in 3 days anyways. The set is getting nerfed.

GetAgrippa

On PS4 NA, currently 9 of the top 10 players on the deathmatch leaderboard all use Dark Convergence. And frequently several of them are all in the same bg. It's not a problem when one or two people are using it. It's a problem when there are as many as six to eight players a bg using the set. And we console users still have over 2 weeks until we get the patch.

And I'm not seeing groups with a healer beating dark convergence groups. I'm seeing sorcs in dark convergence cruising their way to win after win after win. Give a DC sorc team a healer and you might as well leave the bg.

Dragonlord573

It's why I love below level 50 PvP. Unless you're really working for sets to get a leg up it is mostly based on your own skill. Back when I first started PvP I leveled a magDK through BGs only and it was extremely fun. MagDK is really powerful in low level BGs due to their heal potential with coagulating blood, flame whip, and burning embers. It got to the point that I could beat 1v6s and I didn't have a set active at all. Then you go into level 50 BGs and it's either a similar experience or just pain.

gamma71

LeonAkando wrote: »

This is set is being nerfed into oblivion in three days. How is that you guys are still complaining about this?

There making the radius of the pool smaller and you shouldn't be getting double pulled but there uping the damage 50% plus per target. Your gonna go boom so quick you won't have to worry about getting out of it.

GetAgrippa

gamma71 wrote: »

but there uping the damage 50% plus per target. Your gonna go boom so quick you won't have to worry about getting out of it.

That's not totally correct though. They nerfed the initial damage but it scales more with each target.

Reduced this set's damage by approximately 59% but increased the scaling per target to 50%, up from 10%.

AJones43865

TequilaFire wrote: »

What is truly sad is they gave you guys a no proc campaign but you post complaints on forum instead of using it.
All this constant complaining is doing PvP in and makes it hard for anyone to want to make improvements.

Your post is offensive on several levels.

Not everyone wants to play in no proc. Telling people to play no proc because one set is so totally OP that it's a god mode set doesn't work either. The problem is not PvP players complaining. The problem is the god mode set ZOS introduced into the game. That is why people are complaining about the set. Dark Convergence has two pulls, massive dps, massive range and pulls from outside it's stated range, does not have to be aimed, and does not cost any resources. The problem is the set, not people pointing out the problems with the set.

The problem is not people pointing out the many issues with PvP and Dark Convergence. The problem is ZOS isn't fixing bugs and issues in PvP, and the introduction of sets that are radically out of balance with everything else.

gamma71

Going to a empty no proc campaign is not the answer to balance pvp. Balance in sets is the answer to balance. Having a clue that releasing the most imbalanced set ever created in a mmo pvp setting would help to.

AJones43865

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

MikeSkyrim333 wrote: »

Dark convergence, proc sets and etc. Just press one button and set will do the rest

The problem is many players still haven't figured out you can..

1) hold down block
2) dodge roll out
3) mist form out
4) elude up and laugh as DC does nothing to you
5) streak/charge/leap out

I can't believe how many players stand on top of the DC orb helpless, not knowing what to do.

The damage is high w/ Dark Convergence but the double pull from 12 meters out is the main problem. It's a positional disadvantage that makes you vulnerable to huge Dawnbreakers, Necro bursts, etc.

The occasional lava pull is pretty funny and lots of WTF moments getting pulled through walls/stairs. Most teams I see using Dark Convergence end up losing battlegrounds anyways, at least against other teams with good healers.

None of this matters in 3 days anyways. The set is getting nerfed.

1) Holding block may or not work, and it doesn't mitigate enough damage to survive multiple DC procs
2) Dodge roll doesn't work when the second pull just sucks you in anyway
3) Mist form is only for vampires
4) Elude is a heavy armor skill
5) DC pulls you in even if streaking, leaping, rolling, or charging

kargen27

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

Yes and no. Sets will only get you so far. High skill player with inferior sets will beat low skill player with superior sets majority of the time. It's not about which sets you pick but what you do with them.

- This lesson was brought to you by Skara PvP University

The caveat being if the superior set isn't completely broken in an overpowering way such as we have seen recently. Even with the Dark Convergence set being so overpowered as it is for another couple of days good players could overcome it until the ball groups it was suppose to stop started spamming it. A few tossed towards a chokepoint or in the path of a group wasn't to much to deal with. THe yanking off the keep wall was never intended so that falls under sometimes things happen.

The problem became when groups would lay it down like an F-100 dropping napalm there was no getting away.

jedtb16_ESO

Vevvev wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

MikeSkyrim333 wrote: »

That the skill of most players is determined not by actual skill, but by sets

Dark convergence, proc sets and etc. Just press one button and set will do the rest

using a controller, having nimble fingers and bouncing around like a kangaroo on speed is not skill.

The quick fingers and twitchy muscle memory does though. Not so much the controller and jumping.

quick fingers are a factor of age not skill.

TequilaFire

AJones43865 wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

What is truly sad is they gave you guys a no proc campaign but you post complaints on forum instead of using it.
All this constant complaining is doing PvP in and makes it hard for anyone to want to make improvements.

Your post is offensive on several levels.

Not everyone wants to play in no proc. Telling people to play no proc because one set is so totally OP that it's a god mode set doesn't work either. The problem is not PvP players complaining. The problem is the god mode set ZOS introduced into the game. That is why people are complaining about the set. Dark Convergence has two pulls, massive dps, massive range and pulls from outside it's stated range, does not have to be aimed, and does not cost any resources. The problem is the set, not people pointing out the problems with the set.

The problem is not people pointing out the many issues with PvP and Dark Convergence. The problem is ZOS isn't fixing bugs and issues in PvP, and the introduction of sets that are radically out of balance with everything else.

We all know the set is broken, ZOS knows it is and it will eventually go to oblivion like all the times before.
But PvP players are doing so much whining lately the rest of the community wants to remove us from the game.
Do we really need 100 posts about DC in the general forum?

gamma71

I would say more people might start using it if the nerf is what it is. I never used it because I was like no way this is gonna stay the way it is. But now yes they changed the radius of the pull and the intial damage has been reduced but the scaling per target is up to 50 percent it still the most powerful set.

Your still gonna be running into to Dc non stop more people in the pull more potential damage to be done. There playing games with the damage .

Gambino108

MikeSkyrim333 wrote: »

That the skill of most players is determined not by actual skill, but by sets

Dark convergence, proc sets and etc. Just press one button and set will do the rest

Can't speak for all servers but for PC EU - generally the best PvPers are the same people, regardless of class, build or meta.

Sure you get the cheese meta where average players become good and rely on their sets - but that nerf hammer comes and they retreat into obscurity. Over a longer period it becomes clear who the good players are.

For the average player maybe the set impact is greater on them. But skill is a definite decider in PvP ability. In fact only reason Cyro still interesting for ESO veterans. Other MMO's are too much stat/number/level based in their PVP and skill becomes redundant.

spartaxoxo

MikeSkyrim333 wrote: »

That the skill of most players is determined not by actual skill, but by sets

Dark convergence, proc sets and etc. Just press one button and set will do the rest

If two players are wearing the same sets, the one that wins will be the most skilled

spartaxoxo

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

MikeSkyrim333 wrote: »

That the skill of most players is determined not by actual skill, but by sets

Dark convergence, proc sets and etc. Just press one button and set will do the rest

using a controller, having nimble fingers and bouncing around like a kangaroo on speed is not skill.

The quick fingers and twitchy muscle memory does though. Not so much the controller and jumping.

quick fingers are a factor of age not skill.

There's stuff that gives up a leg up due to skill, stuff that gives you a leg up due to biology, and stuff that's a combination of both.

I think quick fingers falls into the latter. The dexterity means little if you're not practiced with them (which is skill) but at the same time, practicing won't matter if you weren't biologically blessed with them in the first place (which is luck).

SeaGtGruff

If you think PvP is no longer about skill, you gaven't been watching the same streamers as I have. There are definitely some players who play their class skill lines, and/or weapon skill lines, instead of relying on proc sets to do everything for them.

dinokstrunz

I miss Blackwood PvP you know back when Procs were never an issue.

Vhozek

It's not skill-based, it's just situation based.
It's all macro play.