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• ESO Store and Account System for maintenance – April 16, 8:00AM EDT (12:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
The issue is resolved, and the North American PC/Mac megaserver is now available. Thank you for your patience!
Play how you want...
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miguelcura✭✭✭Let's not fool ourselves. It's all a lie. The classes we all know are:
Tank: DK, Necro, maybe Warden.
Healer: Templar, Warden, maybe Necro.
DPS ALL MAGICKA: 3 Necros 1 Sorc 1 NB + some magicka guest.
This is so, and until the passives of light armor, some sets, and classes are changed so that it is viable to mix magicka and stamina, and they stop buffing the DLC cla$$ses will not change.1 -
Artim_X✭✭✭✭✭
✭miguelcura wrote: »Let's not fool ourselves. It's all a lie. The classes we all know are:
Tank: DK, Necro, maybe Warden.
Healer: Templar, Warden, maybe Necro.
DPS ALL MAGICKA: 3 Necros 1 Sorc 1 NB + some magicka guest.
This is so, and until the passives of light armor, some sets, and classes are changed so that it is viable to mix magicka and stamina, and they stop buffing the DLC cla$$ses will not change.
I completely disagree with you. If one knows what what they're doing, every class can fulfill any of the 3 roles.(AD) Artim X/Xirtām/Måtrix |PC/NA| Casual staff wielding vampire sorcerer/templar/arcanistElectric-Burn/Stunhttps://media.giphy.com/media/Av0zcKH3i2BkaY1GXW/giphy.gif/https://c.tenor.com/jQHdFftrgwMAAAAC/tenor.gifElectric-Heal- Damage Dealing Build.
- Gear: 5 Infallible Aether (All apparel light and Divines with Max Mag Enchants), 1 Slimecraw Guise for max spell critical (Divines, light, Max Mag Enchants), Maelstrom's Perfected Inferno/Lightning Staff (infused/shock enchant), and Rage of the Ursauk jewelry (bloodthirsty with spell damage enchant)/lightning staff (infused/flame/weapon damage enchant). 1 Mora's Whispers.
- Ability-Bar 1: Critical Surge, Boundless Storm, Mages' Wrath, Lightning Flood, Twilight Tormentor (Twilight Matriarch for solo roleplay variant of build), and Power Overload.
- Ability-Bar 2: Crushing Shock/Storm Pulsar, Streak, Flame/Shock Reach, Unstable Wall of Fire/Storms, Twilight Tormentor (Twilight Matriarch for solo roleplay variant of build) and Fiery/Thunderous Rage.
https://media.giphy.com/media/5ibGIHneWS6ek/giphy.gifElectric-Ward- My Healer Build.
- Gear: 5 Spell Power Cure (All apparel light and Divines with Max Mag Enchants), 1 Slimecraw Guise for max spell critical (Divines, light, Max Mag Enchants), Maelstrom's Perfected Lightning Staff (Charged/shock enchant), and Infallible Aether jewelry (arcane with spell damage enchant)/restoration staff (Powered with absorb magicka enchant). 1 Mora's Whispers.
- Ability-Bar 1: Power Surge, Boundless Storm, Blessing of Restoration, Energy Orb, Twilight Matriarch, and Replenishing Barrier.
- Ability-Bar 2: Dark Deal, Overflowing Altar, Elemental Drain, Blockade of Storms, Twilight Matriarch, and Aggressive Horn.
https://media.giphy.com/media/Wa0TGmtDvwW3e/giphy.gifElectric-Vamp- My Meme Tank Build that uses high resistance and variety of wards.
- Gear: 5 Brands of Imperium (All body pieces except Head and Shoulders, with Divine trait, and with Prismatic Defense Enchants), full Mother Ciannait's (1 light and 1 medium. Divines and Max Mag Enchant), and Combat Physician jewelry (bloodthirsty with Prismatic Recovery Enchants), CP restoration staff (Infused with hardening enchant), and CP ice staff (Infused with crusher enchant).
- Ability-Bar 1: Critical Surge, Bound Aegis, Deep Thoughts, Boundless Storm, Healing Ward, and Replenishing Barrier.
- Ability-Bar 2: Silver Leash (Elemental Drain if healer isn't running it), Bound Aegis, Frost Clench, Blockade of Frost, Empowered Ward, and Temporal Guard.
https://media.giphy.com/media/ukDQiYZzRAxMZKcK86/giphy.gifDawnfang- Tanky stage 4 vampire utility focused PvP healer that can take down very inexperienced players but is primarily focused on working alongside others in an organized group, PUGs, or zergs.
- Gear: 5 Torug's Pact for regular and NoCP build/Oblivion's Foe for dot build (medium chest and body pieces light. All Impenetrable. Max Mag Enchants). Gaze of Sithis and 1 light Mighty Chudan/Pirate Skeleton (light shoulders, and impenetrable with Max Mag Enchants). Knight Slayer/Pariah jewelry/Plaguebreak for dot build (bloodthirsty with spell damage enchant)/lightning staff (infused with oblivion enchant for regular and noCP build/absorb magicka enchant and Sharpened for dot build. Sharpened for dot build)/restoration staff (infused with oblivion enchant regular and noCP build/absorb magicka enchant and Sharpened for dot build).
- Ability-Bar 1: Structured Entropy, Boundless Storm, Soul Splitting Trap, Radiating Regeneration, Healing Ward, and Life Giver.
- Ability-Bar 2: Drain Vigor (Elemental Susceptibility), Race Against Time, Rune Cage, Radiant Magelight, Empowered Ward, and Shatter Soul.
https://media.tenor.com/ogWfvDdsqBIAAAAd/anime-black-clover.gifDuskfang- My casual one bar heavy attack Templar build that only utilizes Aedric Spear abilities.
- Gear: 5 Infallible Aether (Head or Shoulder and body pieces except Chest. All body pieces Divines with Max Mag Enchants), 1 Slimecraw Guise for max spell critical (Divines, light, Max Mag Enchant), Lightning Staff of the Sergeant (Infused/shock enchant), and Sergeant's Mail jewelry (One Ring and one Neck. Both bloodthirsty with spell damage enchant). 1 Oakensoul Ring (bloodthirsty with spell damage enchant).
- Ability-Bar 1: Puncturing Sweep, Aurora Javelin, Toppling Charge, Blazing Spear, Radiant Ward, and Crescent Sweep.
https://media.tenor.com/Jo8aG_ouy_oAAAAd/ac-odyssey.gifPvE Starter Gear- Tanky stage 4 vampire utility focused PvP healer that can take down very inexperienced players but is primarily focused on working alongside others in an organized group, PUGs, or zergs.
- Gear: 5 Torug's Pact (Heavy Chest with light Head, Waist, Hands, and Feet. All body pieces Impenetrable. Health enchant on head and everything else Magicka Enchants), 1 Medium Mighty Chudan/Pirate Skeleton Shoulder (Impenetrable, Max Health Enchant), Knight Slayer Restoration Staff (Infused/Decrease Health enchant/Stealth-Draining Poison IX), and Knight Slayer jewelry (One Ring and one Neck. Both bloodthirsty with spell damage enchant). 1 Oakensoul Ring (bloodthirsty with Spell Damage Enchant).
- Ability-Bar 1:Radiant Oppression, Race Against Time, Aurora Javelin, Breath of Life, Resolving Vigor, and Life Giver (Shatter Soul).
https://media.giphy.com/media/6CovzgyTig7M4/giphy.gifRace- Gear: 5 Law of Julianos (heavy chest, gloves/belt light, and the rest can be light or 1 medium piece if you're not wearing medium anywhere else on your body. All in training if grinding for XP or divines), Armor of the Seducer or Magnus' Gift head, shoulder, and staves (light with 1 medium piece if you are not already wearing 1 medium Julianos piece. All in training or divines. The staves should be training or infused), and 3 purple Willpower Jewelry with Arcane trait (can be bought from trading guilds for relatively cheap.
- Check tamrieltradecentre.com for the best deals if you're not using a price checking addon).
https://media.giphy.com/media/sdEkeWpiaGz0A/giphy.gifMundus Stones- High elf, since you will not have issues with sustain, but other mag based races are also fine so this is more of a personal choice.
https://media.giphy.com/media/cT3wMhLGQWdKU/giphy.gifCurrent Champion Points- PvP: The Lover for penetration when playing a sorc or temp.
- PvE Healing/Damage: The Thief for decent crit rate.
- PvE Tanking: The Lady to get close to resistance cap.
https://media.giphy.com/media/l4FGDAx6u3hthMhgI/giphy.gifFavorite Foods and Potions- DPS Sorc: Shadowstrike/ Master Gatherer, Meticulous Disassembly/Plentiful Harvest, Steed's Blessing, Sustaining Shadows, Exploiter, Weapons Expert, Biting Aura, Thaumaturge, Celerity, Rejuvenation, Fortified, Boundless Vitality.
- Healer Sorc: Shadowstrike/ Master Gatherer, Meticulous Disassembly/Plentiful Harvest, Steed's Blessing, Sustaining Shadows, Enlivening Overflow, Hope Infusion, Weapon's Expert, Arcane Supremacy, Celerity, Rejuvenation, Fortified, Boundless Vitality.
- Tanky Sorc: Shadowstrike/ Master Gatherer, Meticulous Disassembly/Plentiful Harvest, Steed's Blessing, Sustaining Shadows, Ironclad, Enduring Resolve, Reinforced, Duelist's Rebuff, Bastion, Ward Master, Rejuvenation, Fortified.
- PvP Sorc: Shadowstrike/ Master Gatherer, Meticulous Disassembly/Plentiful Harvest, Steed's Blessing, Sustaining Shadows, Enlivening Overflow, Weapon's Expert, Occult Overload, Arcane Supremacy, Bastion, Rejuvenation, Fortified, Boundless Vitality.
- PvE Temp: Shadowstrike/ Master Gatherer, Meticulous Disassembly/Plentiful Harvest, Steed's Blessing, Sustaining Shadows, Fighting Finesse, Master-at-Arms, Weapons Expert, Biting Aura, Celerity, Rejuvenation, Fortified, Boundless Vitality.
- PvP Temp: Shadowstrike/ Master Gatherer, Meticulous Disassembly/Plentiful Harvest, Steed's Blessing, Sustaining Shadows, Enlivening Overflow, Weapon's Expert, From the Brink, Arcane Supremacy, Celerity, Rejuvenation, Fortified, Boundless Vitality.
https://media.giphy.com/media/3otPoTggaYFNd1FdAI/giphy.gif- Parse Food for PvE:(DPS) Ghastly Eye Bowl (increases Max Magicka by 4592 and Magicka Recovery by 459 for 2 hours).
- Gold/Purple Food for Sorc PvP and Meme Tanking:(PvP) Clockwork Citrus Filet (increases Max Health by 3326, Health Recovery by 406 [useful if stage 1 vampire], Max Magicka by 3080, and Magicka Recovery by 338 for 2 hours). Witchmother's Potent Brew (Increase Max Magicka by 2856, Max Health by 3094, and Magicka Recovery by 315 for 2 hours.
- Trash Potions when feeling cheap: Regular CP150 Essence of Magicka pots that I obtain frequently from playing the game or Crown Tri-Restoration Potion obtained from dailies.
- Crafted Potions: Essence of Spell Critical (Bugloss, Lady's Smock, and Water Hyacinth). Without magelight this is my primary means of obtaining Major Prophecy on my Sorc, which increases my Spell Critical Rating. This also heals and restores magicka. Essence of Immovability (Columbine, Corn Flower, and Wormwood). I use this in PvP, since this gives me stealth detection, knockback immunity, and restores magicka (better to use it when competent allies are nearby, since it might reveal that you are surrounded by multiple players in stealth and you will not have an emergency pot available after use). Essence of Invisibility with only 2 ingredients (Blue Entoloma, Namira's Rot, Nirnroot, or Spider Egg). I use this in PvE content that requires stealth and if I need more speed I'll use Rapid Maneuver before using the potion. Essence of Invisibility with 3 ingredients (Blessed Thistle, Blue Entoloma, and Namira's Rot). Very useful in PvP alongside the vampire Dark Stalker passive, since you'll be invisible, ignore movement speed penalty while in Crouch, and you'll have a 30% movement speed boost from Major Expedition (I always have this slotted when riding from point A to B in PvP land, since gankers are always lurking). My templar will mostly use Essence of Health (Tri-Stat Potion) Ingredients: (Mountain Flower, Columbine, and Bugloss).
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miguelcura✭✭✭miguelcura wrote: »Let's not fool ourselves. It's all a lie. The classes we all know are:
Tank: DK, Necro, maybe Warden.
Healer: Templar, Warden, maybe Necro.
DPS ALL MAGICKA: 3 Necros 1 Sorc 1 NB + some magicka guest.
This is so, and until the passives of light armor, some sets, and classes are changed so that it is viable to mix magicka and stamina, and they stop buffing the DLC cla$$ses will not change.
I completely disagree with you. If one knows what what they're doing, every class can fulfill any of the 3 roles.
Good luck doing the HM of the trials, and good luck getting a group that accepts you.0 -
Stx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭miguelcura wrote: »Let's not fool ourselves. It's all a lie. The classes we all know are:
Tank: DK, Necro, maybe Warden.
Healer: Templar, Warden, maybe Necro.
DPS ALL MAGICKA: 3 Necros 1 Sorc 1 NB + some magicka guest.
This is so, and until the passives of light armor, some sets, and classes are changed so that it is viable to mix magicka and stamina, and they stop buffing the DLC cla$$ses will not change.
I completely disagree with you. If one knows what what they're doing, every class can fulfill any of the 3 roles.
There is a difference between being optimal for something and being able to do something.
Why bring a worse build when you can bring something you know performs best?1 -
Wandering_Immigrant✭✭✭✭miguelcura wrote: »Let's not fool ourselves. It's all a lie. The classes we all know are:
Tank: DK, Necro, maybe Warden.
Healer: Templar, Warden, maybe Necro.
DPS ALL MAGICKA: 3 Necros 1 Sorc 1 NB + some magicka guest.
This is so, and until the passives of light armor, some sets, and classes are changed so that it is viable to mix magicka and stamina, and they stop buffing the DLC cla$$ses will not change.
I completely disagree with you. If one knows what what they're doing, every class can fulfill any of the 3 roles.
There is a difference between being optimal for something and being able to do something.
Why bring a worse build when you can bring something you know performs best?
So goes the eternal MMO debate. Meta and optimal vs off-meta but adequate.
But... if someone's goal is 100% optimisation, then by following the meta they are in fact still playing how they want. Are they not?
I mean there's always going to be a mathematical best, right?2 -
Darkstorne✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
That's like asking why anyone bothers playing ESO when FF14 exists and has a better metascore.miguelcura wrote: »Let's not fool ourselves. It's all a lie. The classes we all know are:
Tank: DK, Necro, maybe Warden.
Healer: Templar, Warden, maybe Necro.
DPS ALL MAGICKA: 3 Necros 1 Sorc 1 NB + some magicka guest.
This is so, and until the passives of light armor, some sets, and classes are changed so that it is viable to mix magicka and stamina, and they stop buffing the DLC cla$$ses will not change.
I completely disagree with you. If one knows what what they're doing, every class can fulfill any of the 3 roles.
There is a difference between being optimal for something and being able to do something.
Why bring a worse build when you can bring something you know performs best?
Because you might personally prefer one playstyle over another. I pug heal vet DLC dungeons as a StamSorc in medium armour and love it. Spell Power Cure + Powerful Assault means my team has a pretty much constant uptime +700 weapon/spell dmg buff, and as a healer I've learned it's buffs that matter more than heals anyway. I'm sure damage dealers would rather have my StamSorc's buffs and heals than a Templar spec'd for the biggest heals possible. Currently working towards the new mythic ring to bring that dmg buff up to around +1k.
The meta is a lie and it's sad to see so many people believing it's real. The biggest joy of ESO imo is creating your own personal playstyle, and a lot of people rob themselves of that joy by googling "best meta builds".Edited by Darkstorne on November 9, 2021 9:44AM4 -
miguelcura✭✭✭Darkstorne wrote: »
That's like asking why anyone bothers playing ESO when FF14 exists and has a better metascore.miguelcura wrote: »Let's not fool ourselves. It's all a lie. The classes we all know are:
Tank: DK, Necro, maybe Warden.
Healer: Templar, Warden, maybe Necro.
DPS ALL MAGICKA: 3 Necros 1 Sorc 1 NB + some magicka guest.
This is so, and until the passives of light armor, some sets, and classes are changed so that it is viable to mix magicka and stamina, and they stop buffing the DLC cla$$ses will not change.
I completely disagree with you. If one knows what what they're doing, every class can fulfill any of the 3 roles.
There is a difference between being optimal for something and being able to do something.
Why bring a worse build when you can bring something you know performs best?
Because you might personally prefer one playstyle over another. I pug heal vet DLC dungeons as a StamSorc in medium armour and love it. Spell Power Cure + Powerful Assault means my team has a pretty much constant uptime +700 weapon/spell dmg buff, and as a healer I've learned it's buffs that matter more than heals anyway. I'm sure damage dealers would rather have my StamSorc's buffs and heals than a Templar spec'd for the biggest heals possible. Currently working towards the new mythic ring to bring that dmg buff up to around +1k.
The meta is a lie and it's sad to see so many people believing it's real. The biggest joy of ESO imo is creating your own personal playstyle, and a lot of people rob themselves of that joy by googling "best meta builds".
What you say is true but it works to make vet dungeons or "easy" things obviously you can play as you want ... I'm talking about HM, trial trifectas, etc ... In that high end it does not work and no group will want to deal with builds outside from the meta. That is why it must be clarified that this is an MMO, the mmo are played with people cooperating and competing ... it is not played alone. The meta exists and nobody accepts you in a serious group if you don't align yourself minimally. This is NOT Skyrim offline. Many people believe that it is.Edited by miguelcura on November 9, 2021 1:19PM0 -
phileunderx2✭✭✭✭✭
✭Darkstorne wrote: »
That's like asking why anyone bothers playing ESO when FF14 exists and has a better metascore.miguelcura wrote: »Let's not fool ourselves. It's all a lie. The classes we all know are:
Tank: DK, Necro, maybe Warden.
Healer: Templar, Warden, maybe Necro.
DPS ALL MAGICKA: 3 Necros 1 Sorc 1 NB + some magicka guest.
This is so, and until the passives of light armor, some sets, and classes are changed so that it is viable to mix magicka and stamina, and they stop buffing the DLC cla$$ses will not change.
I completely disagree with you. If one knows what what they're doing, every class can fulfill any of the 3 roles.
There is a difference between being optimal for something and being able to do something.
Why bring a worse build when you can bring something you know performs best?
Because you might personally prefer one playstyle over another. I pug heal vet DLC dungeons as a StamSorc in medium armour and love it. Spell Power Cure + Powerful Assault means my team has a pretty much constant uptime +700 weapon/spell dmg buff, and as a healer I've learned it's buffs that matter more than heals anyway. I'm sure damage dealers would rather have my StamSorc's buffs and heals than a Templar spec'd for the biggest heals possible. Currently working towards the new mythic ring to bring that dmg buff up to around +1k.
The meta is a lie and it's sad to see so many people believing it's real. The biggest joy of ESO imo is creating your own personal playstyle, and a lot of people rob themselves of that joy by googling "best meta builds".
A guildie that I run a lot of dlc content with has a similar build but with a nightblade.. And it works really well.0 -
Franchise408✭✭✭✭✭miguelcura wrote: »Darkstorne wrote: »
That's like asking why anyone bothers playing ESO when FF14 exists and has a better metascore.miguelcura wrote: »Let's not fool ourselves. It's all a lie. The classes we all know are:
Tank: DK, Necro, maybe Warden.
Healer: Templar, Warden, maybe Necro.
DPS ALL MAGICKA: 3 Necros 1 Sorc 1 NB + some magicka guest.
This is so, and until the passives of light armor, some sets, and classes are changed so that it is viable to mix magicka and stamina, and they stop buffing the DLC cla$$ses will not change.
I completely disagree with you. If one knows what what they're doing, every class can fulfill any of the 3 roles.
There is a difference between being optimal for something and being able to do something.
Why bring a worse build when you can bring something you know performs best?
Because you might personally prefer one playstyle over another. I pug heal vet DLC dungeons as a StamSorc in medium armour and love it. Spell Power Cure + Powerful Assault means my team has a pretty much constant uptime +700 weapon/spell dmg buff, and as a healer I've learned it's buffs that matter more than heals anyway. I'm sure damage dealers would rather have my StamSorc's buffs and heals than a Templar spec'd for the biggest heals possible. Currently working towards the new mythic ring to bring that dmg buff up to around +1k.
The meta is a lie and it's sad to see so many people believing it's real. The biggest joy of ESO imo is creating your own personal playstyle, and a lot of people rob themselves of that joy by googling "best meta builds".
What you say is true but it works to make vet dungeons or "easy" things obviously you can play as you want ... I'm talking about HM, trial trifectas, etc ... In that high end it does not work and no group will want to deal with builds outside from the meta. That is why it must be clarified that this is an MMO, the mmo are played with people cooperating and competing ... it is not played alone. The meta exists and nobody accepts you in a serious group if you don't align yourself minimally. This is NOT Skyrim offline. Many people believe that it is.
Because not everyone is doing HM's / trifectas / leaderboards?2 -
Bl4ckR3alm93✭✭✭Kryptonite_Kent wrote: »As far as I know, this "play how you want" ended YEARS ago... it was a creative slogan at one point. Even then, it has and ALWAYS WILL BE, "Play how ZOS wants you to play".
Nah they are actually doubling down on "play how you want" in the next patch on Nov 1... now all gear that has weapon damage, weapon crit, weapon pen... will also have the equal amounts of spell damage, spell crit, and spell pen.
Essentially another watering down of a "spec" in the sense now that mag specs and stam specs will be moot, and there will also be a power / heal creep to go with it, because now stam users (templars for example) will be able to have enough spell damage from a weapon damage set to use the magicka heals that a spell damage user has with only a minimal loss due to less magicka (unless they just hybrid their stat pools)
This thought process leads to the "meta" cookie cutter problems this game suffers from because theres little to no variety in builds because everyone is everything
I agree with this and dont understand why people hate this hybridization lol. Literally gives more options2 -
miguelcura✭✭✭Franchise408 wrote: »miguelcura wrote: »Darkstorne wrote: »
That's like asking why anyone bothers playing ESO when FF14 exists and has a better metascore.miguelcura wrote: »Let's not fool ourselves. It's all a lie. The classes we all know are:
Tank: DK, Necro, maybe Warden.
Healer: Templar, Warden, maybe Necro.
DPS ALL MAGICKA: 3 Necros 1 Sorc 1 NB + some magicka guest.
This is so, and until the passives of light armor, some sets, and classes are changed so that it is viable to mix magicka and stamina, and they stop buffing the DLC cla$$ses will not change.
I completely disagree with you. If one knows what what they're doing, every class can fulfill any of the 3 roles.
There is a difference between being optimal for something and being able to do something.
Why bring a worse build when you can bring something you know performs best?
Because you might personally prefer one playstyle over another. I pug heal vet DLC dungeons as a StamSorc in medium armour and love it. Spell Power Cure + Powerful Assault means my team has a pretty much constant uptime +700 weapon/spell dmg buff, and as a healer I've learned it's buffs that matter more than heals anyway. I'm sure damage dealers would rather have my StamSorc's buffs and heals than a Templar spec'd for the biggest heals possible. Currently working towards the new mythic ring to bring that dmg buff up to around +1k.
The meta is a lie and it's sad to see so many people believing it's real. The biggest joy of ESO imo is creating your own personal playstyle, and a lot of people rob themselves of that joy by googling "best meta builds".
What you say is true but it works to make vet dungeons or "easy" things obviously you can play as you want ... I'm talking about HM, trial trifectas, etc ... In that high end it does not work and no group will want to deal with builds outside from the meta. That is why it must be clarified that this is an MMO, the mmo are played with people cooperating and competing ... it is not played alone. The meta exists and nobody accepts you in a serious group if you don't align yourself minimally. This is NOT Skyrim offline. Many people believe that it is.
Because not everyone is doing HM's / trifectas / leaderboards?
So yeah, play how you want ... the game's open world difficulty and dungeons it's so easy that you could play naked.Edited by miguelcura on November 9, 2021 4:28PM0 -
Dojohoda✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Oops, I commented on the wrong threadEdited by Dojohoda on November 9, 2021 4:46PMFan of playing magblade since 2015. (PC NA)
Might be joking in comments.
-->(((Cyrodiil)))<--0 -
Syrpynt✭✭✭Darkstorne wrote: »
The meta is a lie and it's sad to see so many people believing it's real. The biggest joy of ESO imo is creating your own personal playstyle, and a lot of people rob themselves of that joy by googling "best meta builds".
Probably the best thing I've read in the forums in a long time.
If I can main tank vHRC with Hist and Imperium, but didn't ever hear it was meta, does that mean I'm just a good tank, or does that mean Meta is just whatever people stream/advertise on their monetized webpages to promote sets they like based on some PTS testing?
I honestly like that people get pulled to the meta, because I explore all these fun combinations of sets based themes.
• Are the resources beneficial to my build?
• Are there no*** traits that would be wasted slots?
• Does it work in conjuncture or amplify my direction I'm raking the build?
If they're all yes, it's worth trying out, imo.
If you're building for straight power, you don't slot a set with crit chance. If you're healer, you slot traits that help your healing potency--not traits that won't improve your healing or endurance in a battle. Etc
That leaves so many open set ideas, and hybridization just opened a floodfate of options. My new healer is amazing in PvP--I'm so happy with the build. I never considered a healer until this newest update because I don't like following a build and abilities that everyone is using tried+true.
Edit: Fixed a technicality with the questions so they do positively answer "yes"Edited by Syrpynt on November 9, 2021 5:14PM0 -
Franchise408✭✭✭✭✭miguelcura wrote: »Franchise408 wrote: »miguelcura wrote: »Darkstorne wrote: »
That's like asking why anyone bothers playing ESO when FF14 exists and has a better metascore.miguelcura wrote: »Let's not fool ourselves. It's all a lie. The classes we all know are:
Tank: DK, Necro, maybe Warden.
Healer: Templar, Warden, maybe Necro.
DPS ALL MAGICKA: 3 Necros 1 Sorc 1 NB + some magicka guest.
This is so, and until the passives of light armor, some sets, and classes are changed so that it is viable to mix magicka and stamina, and they stop buffing the DLC cla$$ses will not change.
I completely disagree with you. If one knows what what they're doing, every class can fulfill any of the 3 roles.
There is a difference between being optimal for something and being able to do something.
Why bring a worse build when you can bring something you know performs best?
Because you might personally prefer one playstyle over another. I pug heal vet DLC dungeons as a StamSorc in medium armour and love it. Spell Power Cure + Powerful Assault means my team has a pretty much constant uptime +700 weapon/spell dmg buff, and as a healer I've learned it's buffs that matter more than heals anyway. I'm sure damage dealers would rather have my StamSorc's buffs and heals than a Templar spec'd for the biggest heals possible. Currently working towards the new mythic ring to bring that dmg buff up to around +1k.
The meta is a lie and it's sad to see so many people believing it's real. The biggest joy of ESO imo is creating your own personal playstyle, and a lot of people rob themselves of that joy by googling "best meta builds".
What you say is true but it works to make vet dungeons or "easy" things obviously you can play as you want ... I'm talking about HM, trial trifectas, etc ... In that high end it does not work and no group will want to deal with builds outside from the meta. That is why it must be clarified that this is an MMO, the mmo are played with people cooperating and competing ... it is not played alone. The meta exists and nobody accepts you in a serious group if you don't align yourself minimally. This is NOT Skyrim offline. Many people believe that it is.
Because not everyone is doing HM's / trifectas / leaderboards?
So yeah, play how you want ... the game's open world difficulty and dungeons it's so easy that you could play naked.
Except there is a middle ground between "open world difficulty" and "vet trial HM / trifectas"
I do vet DLC dungeons and trials in off-meta sets all the time. At least once a week for vet DLC trials, and multiple times a week for vet DLC dungeons.0 -
Franchise408✭✭✭✭✭Darkstorne wrote: »
The meta is a lie and it's sad to see so many people believing it's real. The biggest joy of ESO imo is creating your own personal playstyle, and a lot of people rob themselves of that joy by googling "best meta builds".
Probably the best thing I've read in the forums in a long time.
If I can main tank vHRC with Hist and Imperium, but didn't ever hear it was meta, does that mean I'm just a good tank, or does that mean Meta is just whatever people stream/advertise on their monetized webpages to promote sets they like based on some PTS testing?
I honestly like that people get pulled to the meta, because I explore all these fun combinations of sets based themes.
• Are the resources beneficial to my build?
• Are there any traits that would be wasted slots?
• Does it work in conjuncture or amplify my direction I'm raking the build?
If they're all yes, it's worth trying out, imo.
If you're building for straight power, you don't slot a set with crit chance. If you're healer, you slot traits that help your healing potency--not traits that won't improve your healing or endurance in a battle. Etc
That leaves so many open set ideas, and hybridization just opened a floodfate of options. My new healer is amazing in PvP--I'm so happy with the build. I never considered a healer until this newest update because I don't like following a build and abilities that everyone is using tried+true.
Meta heads will just tell you that vHRC is too easy.
But I agree with you. I have 0 meta builds. My main trial character is a Necro tank wearing Crimson Twilight, Grave Guardian, and Lord Warden. Nothing meta about it. I've tanked every Craglorn on vet to completion, and my guild is currently working on vCR. I have also had encounters with other guilds doing vMoL. I was definitely able to tank all of those encounters successfully.1 -
etchedpixels✭✭✭✭✭
✭miguelcura wrote: »... it is not played alone. The meta exists and nobody accepts you in a serious group if you don't align yourself minimally. This is NOT Skyrim offline. Many people believe that it is.
The reality is a bit different - the number of people who care about hard mode veteran trial (or even trials at all) is a tiny tiny fraction of the userbase. A vastly larger number of folk play ESO as an elder scrolls game that just happens to have an annoying design bug whereby other people appear in their copy 8)
As to the meta - the group meta is way more complicated than sheep following a streamer. In any group whether it's a PvP group or PvE the combination of character classes, skills slotted and gear across the group together is what determines the result, not 9 identically race/class/skill dps builds copied from a streamer. Not only that the group set up required is totally dependent upon the target.
Too many toons not enough time1 -
Amottica✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I definitely think the roles should be more defined. In solo/overland content, it should matter as much if roles hybridize. I simply think that the "peaks and valleys" between each role isn't divided enough to make roles a necessary thing to complete content. In defense of this: It is likely because there aren't enough tanks or healers playing to divide the rift further. Which is sad, because I do like tanking. But toxic dps in PUGs and constantly trying to duel me on my tank is annoying. They know full well I would lose.
Anyway. I think that ZoS can hybridize the weapon/spell damage and criticals, but healing critical and potency needs to be separated from damage critical and potency. Otherwise players will always be able to heal through anything that isn't a 1 shot.
As someone who was a progression healer on other games I found it to be a pain respecing when doing quests. When healing less challenging group content the healing role was boring because I knew my dps was weak.
I was glad that was not so rigid with their builds allowing me to do dps without any major changes and to contribute to the group when in easier content. I think Zenimax should stick with a major that makes this game so successful, the combat system. Id hate to see healing become so boring as it is in WoW.0 -
Stx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Darkstorne wrote: »
That's like asking why anyone bothers playing ESO when FF14 exists and has a better metascore.miguelcura wrote: »Let's not fool ourselves. It's all a lie. The classes we all know are:
Tank: DK, Necro, maybe Warden.
Healer: Templar, Warden, maybe Necro.
DPS ALL MAGICKA: 3 Necros 1 Sorc 1 NB + some magicka guest.
This is so, and until the passives of light armor, some sets, and classes are changed so that it is viable to mix magicka and stamina, and they stop buffing the DLC cla$$ses will not change.
I completely disagree with you. If one knows what what they're doing, every class can fulfill any of the 3 roles.
There is a difference between being optimal for something and being able to do something.
Why bring a worse build when you can bring something you know performs best?
Because you might personally prefer one playstyle over another. I pug heal vet DLC dungeons as a StamSorc in medium armour and love it. Spell Power Cure + Powerful Assault means my team has a pretty much constant uptime +700 weapon/spell dmg buff, and as a healer I've learned it's buffs that matter more than heals anyway. I'm sure damage dealers would rather have my StamSorc's buffs and heals than a Templar spec'd for the biggest heals possible. Currently working towards the new mythic ring to bring that dmg buff up to around +1k.
The meta is a lie and it's sad to see so many people believing it's real. The biggest joy of ESO imo is creating your own personal playstyle, and a lot of people rob themselves of that joy by googling "best meta builds".
First of all, no it's not.
And I'm sorry but if you don't believe in metas, I don't know what to tell you. They are real and a thing in every game ever. I never said you had to play the meta in order succeed, but playing a meta build will increase your performance guaranteed as long as you can manage the rotations.
I personally play fun builds instead of meta builds, but I'm not so naive that I think a meta doesn't exist. I also fully understand why pugs look for meta builds. It's human nature to follow the path with the lowest chance of failure.0 -
guarstompemoji✭✭✭✭The problem is not that there is a meta, per se.
The problem is that the learning curve is steep in a nonobvious way.
People reach for a meta to:
- Clear harder content--but--
- Just "wanting something that works" so that they have a place to learn from when there are hundreds of sets and suboptions
- Not wanting to embarrass themselves in dungeons or trials (this is a thing)
- Because they "want to play the game already"
It's fun to sort through sets and make a character--but doing so requires looking at the armor type, at the class passives, at the guild skill passives, at enchantments... visiting YouTube tutorials to discover what LA weaving is...or what overtaunting is.
...sometimes a person just wants to play a game.
Every time ZOS shakes up the meta, we hear about fatigue on the forums, in guilds, and ingame.
Every time I speak with new guildmates, they worry about letting others down in a trial or dungeon. (A few new dudes are overconfident. Then they die a lot. But, they're far from the whole pie, and the 60+ year old analytical grandmother who's retired military will soon overtake them because she dug in and did research before playing.)
Games can be indepth. To the gamers crying out, "But you're arguing for dumbing things down!" ...nooo?
The learning curve needs made more obvious, choices need to be more clearly visible in how they interact with one another, and more choices need to be equally viable outside of specific outliers being BiS.
The Introduction to Tanking guide by TC is over 51 pages, printed. That's before expanding the individual discussions based on class presented per section. I say this not to pick on them, but to illustrate just how much a person must "research before playing" to understand how the game mechanics truly work.
Instead of us blaming others for stupidity, or laziness...we ought to consider just how much the game has grown, how much detail has been added. Imagine starting from square one. Imagine like many people being social, and wanting to support your team, or at least not to fail and be embarrassed.
A level of reliance on "meta" in this instance can represent instead a symptom of a different problem--a stopgap in the floodgates. A signal that the underlying user interface, for example, needs addressed. That underlying elements of the mechanics need streamlined so that their interactions are more obvious--but still provide plenty of means for customization and effectiveness.
tl'dr Don't add "more rules to learn" to fix an issue that exists because of the cobweb of not-well-explained interaction of rules that causes it. Too, don't be upset when people reach for meta builds because they don't want to read over 50 pages of a guide before playing. This again, isn't to knock these guides. They are well-written and exist for a good reason. Our goal should be better UI and underlying mechanical support while keeping a certain depth of options, so that these guides can be 25 pages, not 50, and players more easily understand what's in front of them.Edited by guarstompemoji on November 10, 2021 8:00AM2 -
karekiz✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭You can play how you want. That does not mean that you get to force your playstyle on others.
You want to be a Heavy armor DPS with Bow/Restro? Sure go for it. Nothing is stopping you. That doesn't mean Guild X has to play with you.
Here is a side thing though: If you make your own raid team you can do whatever you want.1 -
Syrpynt✭✭✭You can play how you want. That does not mean that you get to force your playstyle on others.
You want to be a Heavy armor DPS with Bow/Restro? Sure go for it. Nothing is stopping you. That doesn't mean Guild X has to play with you.
Here is a side thing though: If you make your own raid team you can do whatever you want.
I agree with this, however, that does mean that the game needs to allow for single player modes for group content too. Just saying.0 -
WraithShadow13✭✭✭✭I think part of the issue is the major imbalance between DPS and everything else in-game.
With people min-maxing and doing some legit math for DPS, they're hitting those crazy 1mil builds, which is cool for what it is but problematic for the rest of the game. NOW, with people hitting those numbers, all content becomes "too easy", so it becomes a DPS race rather than a fun game with tactics and such. Rather than balancing the insane builds and average builds, they just make things with more health to "mitigate" the high dps, which can cause the other playstyles, classes, non-maxed builds, etc to fall behind. A lot of issues I'm currently seeing on my own gameplay is that I can still play how i want, but that is getting harder to do since new content is getting made around HIGH tier DPS. With things like the Ring of the Pale Order, those people can now heal themselves to insane degrees thanks to their insane damage. Which is great for those people but bad for everybody else.
98% of all normal dungeons are now speed runs due to this. Fewer people play tanks and healers because there isn't much point when the content that needs those isn't fun and they're not as viable as the high DPS players. PvP has a similar issue, where the DPS is a clear king and a single min-maxed character can wipe the floor with entire groups of players. I'm actually curious to know how the newer zerg breaking sets are doing, with those insane builds.
It just seems that if you play your way and not the way that the min-maxed crowd do, you're not welcome. What makes it worse, for me personally, is that the game does nothing to teach you these things but actually goes a step further to worsen the situation. I remember when i first hit level 50 in-game, it grants access to Vet dungeons. Being a new player, at the time, i can't tell you how much hate i got, trying to do vet dungeons at 15-18k dps. Trying to be a healer or a tank, or a solo build that wasn't min-maxed in the PvP settings ALSO came with major headaches as a new player. Which is a shame, because they have some legitimately cool concepts going on in PvP.
Despite the sound of this ranty bit of rant, I don't blame the min-max crowds or the math people who love to break the game. That's an awesome thing and i'm seriously jealous that none of my fun builds can do what some people can.
I place the blame squarely on Zos.
They're not doing anything to balance the game. They're not doing anything to teach players how to achieve these builds. They're not making it so Tanks and Healers are getting an equivalent to the DPS builds happening. I like that they've made more effort for hybrid builds but overall, it's not really addressing the issues. Toss on top of that, a huge number of toxic players really don't add to the situation. Harassing devs that everything is too easy. Harassing lower dps players. Speed running normal content which doesn't let average players enjoy the missions or rewards, to which Zos ALSO seems to be doing nothing about that.
It's just a weird spot to be in, i think.
Min-maxing is going to happen, regardless of what the devs do, that's just a fact of MMOs. That's where some people have their fun, just trying to make the most out of the builds or roles. New players, casual players, and the average player aren't going to be hitting those insane numbers. Not that they can't, just that they won't.
The game is still built to play as you want, but since Zos isn't doing anything to keep things balanced, or deal with toxic players, or to keep more casual playstyles just as viable as the high dps builds, it really just seems like you're being punished for playing how you want. You're missing out by playing how you want. People will boot you from dungeons because you're not playing how they think you should or because you're not hitting 50k dps. I've had vet dungeons fail because the tank and healer were doing 3% of the total DPS. I'm not even kidding. They were doing a combined 3% of the damage and they left because we "weren't doing enough dps".
I like that Zos is doing the "year-long content" that they do but it really seems like they need to seriously go back and rebalance things or make it less punishing for players who don't use builds and rotations copy/pasted from some website.
And god forbid you decide to be a vampire through that "Play your own way" because Zos hates you even more and punishes you further for that one, lol0
