How are people getting over 20k damage?

bathynomusESO

I've read the forums, watched videos, changed sets many times, spends loads of gold on champion point changes, tried animation cancelling (still not sure it's working correctly), got my gear sets to gold, using at least 2 sets, sometimes 3. I've read on the forums that people are getting 33k-100k damage on a single target. I don't know what I am doing wrong. I have tried every class, several different races for bonuses and I still feel like my characters are gimped. At this rate, I don't know what else I can do. I will never be able to do Veteran dungeons or trials. I see people melting bosses in seconds... while I feel like I am poking them with a stick. This is getting really frustrating. I've played MMOs for 20 years and have never had this much trouble excelling to the top. I am currently CP 850+ and I don't see that helping, the further that I progress.

Smoky

What's your characters stats? I.e. Weapon/Spell Damage, Penetration etc. I can't help you as not a good enough player myself but listing your player stats might be helpful to someone who can better explain how it works. There are mythic items and perfected weapons that help, maybe you have got them already? I hope you get the help you need bud.

bathynomusESO

This is my only character that can hit 20k single target. Other characters are 12-15k.

Smoky

@bathynomusESO Those seem like decent numbers for damage and with major breach you'd be up to around the 18K pen so it looks good to me but as I say I am far from a top player so hopefully someone with better experience can help. What type of target dummy are you using to get your DPS figures, as I understand it these high DPS numbers come from the high level trial dummys with buffs/debuffs. I'll be watching this thread and hopefully you get a good answer, plenty of great players on here willing to help.

robpr

What dummy are you hitting, because it is a difference. On a 6 mil/3mil dummy, 20-30k is fairly normal, they dont have any debuffs/buffs on them with standard penetration. 21 mil dummy has most buff and debuff on them in the game. You will get much more damage on them than standard dummies.
From the stats I can read you are using Lover as a mundus. For most PvE damage its better to run Thief for crit chance, the penetration will be applied by a Tank.

Wuuffyy

Your self pen is way too much and your crit is incredibly low.

Crit should be around 50-60 self buffed. If not, you aren’t doing damage in pve.

Focus on sets that give lines of crit versus anything else.

Edit: health is also way too high (should shoot for 18-22k range). And primary stat is pretty low (should be at least be around 30k)

Hymzir

That's a lot of health you got there. Lot more than is necessary. You only got 1k more Magicka than health, and your Spell Power is rather low, and your crit rating is negligible.Besides, your weapon damage is higher than spell damage? Is this a hybrid build of some sort? And finally, your Penetration is over tuned. 13k is PVP values. Most of it is wasted in PVE.

But even so... Your stats look oddly low. I mean, my far from optimized PVP magblade has 200 more Spell damage, 2k more penetration (it is a PVP build after all), 10k more magicka and 3k more stamina. (I run Sugar Skulls, the extra stamina helps with break frees.) And most crucially I got 40% spell crit value - more than twice what you got. All I lose in exchange is about 5k health compared to you in addition to about 400 mag recovery.

We have about the same Spell resistance, and physical Resistance and I still got 300 more crit resistance and almost twice your health recovery and 200 more stamina recovery. And those are unbuffed values. (Except for Major Prophecy via Radiant Magelight) And it's all on an un-optimized PVP build using second hand gear, not all of which is golded. And I also run Wild Hunt Ring, which eats into my stats, but the trade off for extra mobility is more than worth it in PVP. So yeah, something does not add up with your stats.

karthrag_inak

Magicka-oriented character with more weapon damage than spell damage. This one suggests you re-investigate the sets you are using. What sets do you have on?

bathynomusESO

Smoky wrote: »

What type of target dummy are you using to get your DPS figures

I was just going off of many boss averages. I need to buy a house for a target dummy, soon.

bathynomusESO

Hymzir wrote: »

That's a lot of health you got there. Lot more than is necessary. You only got 1k more Magicka than health, and your Spell Power is rather low, and your crit rating is negligible.Besides, your weapon damage is higher than spell damage? Is this a hybrid build of some sort?

Ah, the HP is actually 22002. I had a food buff on. I am running 5 pieces of Deadland's Assassin (2 armor, 3 jewelry) for the weapon damage, 5 Knight Slayer. I'm old school and prefer to use a Lightning Staff with Oblivion Damage.

kwinter

So next update they are changing set to have both spell and weapon damage which may help. But for magic build you should focus on max magic, spell damage and spell crit. Staff work off spell not weapon damage

kwinter

Also inner light on mage guild skill will increase your spell crit.

Wuuffyy

bathynomusESO wrote: »

Hymzir wrote: »

That's a lot of health you got there. Lot more than is necessary. You only got 1k more Magicka than health, and your Spell Power is rather low, and your crit rating is negligible.Besides, your weapon damage is higher than spell damage? Is this a hybrid build of some sort?

Ah, the HP is actually 22002. I had a food buff on. I am running 5 pieces of Deadland's Assassin (2 armor, 3 jewelry) for the weapon damage, 5 Knight Slayer. I'm old school and prefer to use a Lightning Staff with Oblivion Damage.

It shouldn’t be that with a food buff. And if you’re talking about mag/mag recov food, then your recov should NOT be that high after that.

kwinter

Mother sorrow overland set a in deshan (may have misspelled) is really good for magic dps

jaws343

Not going to worry about the health. Health pools are a lot larger than they were in the previous CP system. And mine in pve gear usually sits around 25-27K or so.

But a few things. Deadlands and Knight Slayer are not really good pve sets. You are presumably running a magicka based character but running a stam set and a heavy attack set.

The parses you see that are doing 20-100K dps are running things like mother's sorrow, wading kilt, medusa, etc. I hit 30K or so on my solo build running mothers sorrow, false god, and gaze of sithis.

Looking at your spell damage and your recovery, I can almost tell you do not have infused/bloodthirsty jewelry with spell damage enchants.

And looking at health recovery, I can tell you are likely running an non optimized food as well. Sugar Skulls for mag generally have the better health and mag boost.

My solo build for comparison sits around the following stats:
27K health
37K mag
20K stam
3.8K spell damage unbuffed
900 mag recovery
60% crit chance

Edited to add that the Maelstrom staff provides a ton of DPS.

K9002

There's a couple things you could do, apart from getting the sorely needed criticals and rethinking your set choices. A good way of getting both crit rate and increasing your max magicka is slotting Inner Light (a morph of Magelight from Mages Guild) on your main weapon bar. This will give you +7% mag together with one of the passives, which is very nice. And it improves the food buffs too. Something as simple as Tomato Garlic Chutney can make you hit a lot harder, and you can pick it up completely for free from various cauldrons and bowls found in towns or in the wild, by campfires. It's not really dungeon or trial food but it's completely adequate for overland stuff.

Another thing that's commonly done is using an infused staff on the back bar and applying a weapon damage glyph to it. This is one of the things that are very much worth spending a gold rune (Kuta). While active, the enchantment will increase your spell damage by up to 452, that's a lot. The trick to applying it is Wall of Elements. You place it over at least one enemy, then switch to your main weapon and fight as usual. The Wall will keep activating that enchantment regardless of which weapon you're holding at the moment, as long as there's at least one enemy standing in it.

One more trick to increasing your damage is Flawless Dawnbreaker from the Fighters Guild. It deals decent damage and activating it will increase your spell damage by 300 for 20 seconds. You will get another bonus for just having it slotted, +3% spell damage. It really depends on your class but in some cases it is worth using over class ultimates.

Sun7dance

And plz don't make the mistake of using the raid dummy as a reference in any way!
I hate this dummy more and more due to all the misunderstanding!

6Mio Dummy:

20k ---> average
30k ---> pretty decent
40k ---> congratulation

BejaProphet

Here is the good news.

There is no reason for you to give up or be frustrated. Because despite all your effort you haven’t started yet. Until you start working on a dummy you haven’t truely begun the journey.

The dummy allows you to make a change, either big or small, then see exactly how that effected your damage out put. No guessing. That’s what you want. When you do that you keep finding the tweeks that give you 500 dps here, 1,600 there…and suddenly one day these all add up and you are melting bosses. Thus far you have spent all that time and gold changing sets, but you don’t actually know what each change netted you.

So viewed optimistically, this is good news. Because you haven’t tried everything. Everything still awaits testing for you.

BXR_Lonestar

Your character is severely lacking in critical chance and I'm guessing that plays a huge part in why your DPS is only 15-20k.

In order to be competitive DPS wise, the meta is really narrow for what kind of build you have. You need to have at least 50% crit chance and you need to stack a bunch of sources of crit damage multipliers (examples - fighting finesse and backstabber perk on Blue tree, shadow mundus + all divines armor, Tzogvin, Medusa armor, or trap from fighters guild).

Once you have both of those stats where they need to be, DPS is really actually very simple - maintain your AOE/Single Target DoTs, use a light attack between every ability, and when all DoTs are up, you are going to use a spammable skill 3-5x depending on what your AOE/ST DoT's are, then repeat until execute phase. Then replace your spammable with your execute.

I was able to hit close to 55k DPS on a stamina nightblade that I've never played before just by doing all of the above, and I don't even main a DPS Character. I mainly play support (tank or healer).

Hymzir

bathynomusESO wrote: »

Hymzir wrote: »

That's a lot of health you got there. Lot more than is necessary. You only got 1k more Magicka than health, and your Spell Power is rather low, and your crit rating is negligible.Besides, your weapon damage is higher than spell damage? Is this a hybrid build of some sort?

Ah, the HP is actually 22002. I had a food buff on. I am running 5 pieces of Deadland's Assassin (2 armor, 3 jewelry) for the weapon damage, 5 Knight Slayer. I'm old school and prefer to use a Lightning Staff with Oblivion Damage.

As others noted, Lightning Staff uses Spell Damage, not Weapon Damage. The only thing you need Weapon Damage for, as a Magicka based build, is Bash. And how often does that come into play on a ranged build?

The game used to use Weapon Damage for Staves when it launched, but that got changed like 5 years ago or something. Also note that Stamina and Magicka contribute to damage too. Including weapon attacks. So Staff damage is calculated between Spell Damage and max Magicka. If you google for it, you will find the exact formulas, but it isn't really necessary. Roughly speaking, they both factor in equally, and about 10 Magicka equals about 1 Spell Damage.Roughly speaking that is. The exact ratio varies between different Abilities. The same is true for stam based attacks, just with Weapon Damage And Max Stamina.

Different builds weigh the two stats concerned differently though, since different buffs apply to them. Traditionally speaking, mag builds have had easier time to buff max Magicka rather than Spell damage, whereas stam builds had easier time to max Weapon Damage rather than their Stamina pool. But it isn't quite as straightforward these days. A lot has changed over the years.

On many builds, I find to end up with roughly equal values in Damage and its relevant pool. So like About 40k Stam or mag, and about 4k in Weapon or Spell Damage, whit slightly lower values if I build for solo play, since that tends to need to vector in lot more tankiness, which eats into raw damage potential.

But there are outliers, like the build I use for most of Overland content these days. A sorc build with only 36k mag and 4.7k Spell Damage and Spell pen of about 9k. I also have Spell Crit of 57.1% which I can bump to 63.1%. via Minor Prophecy that I get from casting Frags. I can get Major Sorcery easily via Crit Surge, and that bumps my Spell Damge to 5.5k. With my infused Glyph of Spell Power from back bar this goes to 6.1k. It's kinda extreme and nontraditional for a magsorc, but this is a build based on Thrassian Stranglers, and it's main purpose is to one shot most Overland mobs, since I got no time to waste on those pesky Wolves or ornery Mudcrabs.

With this setup, I'm as squishy as can be, but as long as I know my limits and know what I'm doing, it works out just fine. I've participated in Dragon fights, and Harrowstorms and difficult World Bosses with it, and only rarely die, usually when I do something really stupid or lose my attention to RW issues. I've also done vet dungeons with it on occasion. With a Templar around to provide Minor Sorcery and max buffs from Strangles, I've come close to active Spell Damage value of 9k.

I usually go with Mother Sorrow and New Moon Acolyte, but swap the latter for Crafty Alfig when I need a bigger base mag pool. I also lug around a set of Ice Heart heavy pieces for some instant tankiness when soloing world bosses. I got crap sustain, but with the raw damage output I got on this build, it rarely matters. And there are potions to deal with that. Still, wouldn't go to a trial or any of the harder vet dungeons with it. Cause no matter how much your theoretical raw damage potential is, the actual damage you dish out is zero, when you are dead.

But anyway... Where was I... Right, Spell Damage and max Magicka. Pick out either Mag or Stam, hybrids suck in this game. No matte how much ZOS keeps adding band-aid solutions for them, the fundamental is still that you can't really be effective in both. It pays to stack one over the other. So drop Deadland and build for Spell Crit - Medusa and/or Mother Sorrow covers that. Knight Slayer really only works in PVP, and not all that well either. I used to run a magplar with Knight and Infused Torug with Oblivion glyph. It still does okay, I guess, but there are easier and better ways to achieve the same kinda results. Oblivion damage got nerfed too hard.

And finally, when people say unbuffed, it usually refers to short buffs applied via abilites or potions. Having a food buff on is kinda assumed on standard. So we're talking about buffs that are not constantly on. There are few exceptions, like getting constant Major Prophecy from Magelight, or using a set that gives the buff 24/7. But those are again niche builds. I run a magplar using Rattlecage for that constant Major Sorcery, because it's convenient and there is no opportunity cost involved. It's always on and always affects what I'm doing. It's another PVP build though, and for PVE I would go with something else. And I'd also pick something else, if I had an easy way to get Major Sorcery on a Templar, kinda like I can get it real easy on a magsorc. But for Templars, the only real choices are potions or Degeneration. One takes away my option to chug an invisibility potion at a critical point, and the other requires a target. So Rattlecage works under those circumstances. However the real point here is, always have Major sorcery up when doing serious damage. And maintain your buffs in combat.

As others noted, those 100k results are on target dummies that come with all the relevant buffs applied. The represent ideal condition damages, not what actually happens in a fight. Doesn't mean that buffs don't matter. They do, and in PVE, especially in group situations, it's assumed that there is someone whose job it is to provide Major Breach. Usually the tank. That gives basically the equivalent of 6k penetration on demand. Add in Minor Breach and Crusher enchant and the targets resistances are lowered by 11k. You really don't need more than 7k or so of pen since the bosses resistance are set to 18k. And for solo Overland, 9k is as much as you ever need, since that is the resistance value for most mobs.

Writing all this, reminds me once more, that none of this is really self evident, and that the game does not really explain most of it. I'm sure the information is in the help menus, buried under ton of stuff. But most of us learn this the hard way, as we muddle thru different builds, slowly building up understating on what works and what not.

zhekazlojeb17_ESO

Mag NB DD/Heal(Restore Staf /Lighting Staf)
set "Law of Julianos" "Rattlecage" meybe "New Moon Acolyte"

zhekazlojeb17_ESO

Sorry dublle post/ could not edit post with inserted image

https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipOU4W0spMw_jqhxVcOe2KP-i9919mo4-JpmN50

dummy - NO. A stupid waste of time
training on WB solo (bonus treining Doge. Run. Block))

Fennwitty

Most guilds will have a house with one or more varieties of training dummies available.

Even asking in /zone chat you can find some folks that will gladly let you go to their house to use a training dummy.

jaws343

zhekazlojeb17_ESO wrote: »

Sorry dublle post/ could not edit post with inserted image

https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipOU4W0spMw_jqhxVcOe2KP-i9919mo4-JpmN50

dummy - NO. A stupid waste of time
training on WB solo (bonus treining Doge. Run. Block))

While I agree that dummy parse numbers don't translate to a real fight, what they do provide is a controlled means to practice a rotation. So that when you are in a real fight, after dodging or blocking or performing a mechanic, the actual A-B-C-D steps of performing an ideal parse for your build are second nature, you don't even have to think about them. That come from dummy parsing. When to bar swap, when to cast specific skills. Etc. All from dummy parsing. And as your DPS numbers go up on the dummy, you can gauge your efficiency of the rotation.

Radiance

You should be using magicka Spell Damage/ Crit sets.

Your weapon damage should bot be higher than spell damage as a Pure Magicka Based dps. There's a biiiig problem.

The people doing Top DPS are using Best in Slot Sets and have their loadout rotations perfected down to the millisecond. The average player will never get anywhere near them but you could at least be doing much better with decent sets.

Mothers Sorrow set is easily one of the best for Magicka Builds and easiest to get in Deshaan. Pair that with Medusa from that one Lamia snake Dungeon, the name escapes me or False Gods from SunSpire Trials.

Also Thieves boon for more crit. As a Magicka Build, Stamina sets are near useless to you, i'd suggest passing those sets you mentioned to an Alt Stam Built character but even so, they are far from the best stam sets and would recommend an upgrade.

Teiglin

Wondering this myself. The thing I get is Crit and spell damage together but I see mainly crit plus crit.

BejaProphet

zhekazlojeb17_ESO wrote: »

Sorry dublle post/ could not edit post with inserted image

https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipOU4W0spMw_jqhxVcOe2KP-i9919mo4-JpmN50

dummy - NO. A stupid waste of time
training on WB solo (bonus treining Doge. Run. Block))

You will not find a DD within the top half of performers who got there without dummy work. Period.

It does not matter that it doesn’t simulate a real fight. It lets you know OBJECTIVELY what combos gear rotation does the best damage for you. Yes, after that you must learn the skill of bringing that to bare on real fights. But if you haven’t figured out a combination of those things that will yield 40k DPS, you will dang sure not out perform me because you think you can dodge roll well.

You are missing the point of the dummy.

Foxtrot39

On average you want no more than 9k penetration, as skills or a tank give you the debuff that end up nullifying the target armor completely (18k armor is the max PVE enemies can get a tank can with pierce armor remove 9k armor)

Your crit chance are in the gutter, you need to increase them to around 50% at least

Weapon/spell damage wise you could increase it a bit, usualy you run 5k spell/weapon damage min with buffs as amgicka DD, get 5k spell damage, ignore weapon damage as you don't benefit at all from it until you use a hybrid build

Afterwards its slotting the right skills

Then you're left with having the right sets/arena weapon and optimizing your CP, slotable stars and mundus stone, keep in mind certain status effect benefits damage like brittle given from the chilled status

Once you've done all fo this you can work on rotations

six2fall

bathynomusESO wrote: »

This is my only character that can hit 20k single target. Other characters are 12-15k.

Stats are ok but not optimized what sets are you running

Also the biggest addition to dps you can do is learn how to light attach in between each skill

bathynomusESO

Hymzir wrote: »

The game used to use Weapon Damage for Staves when it launched, but that got changed like 5 years ago or something. Also note that Stamina and Magicka contribute to damage too. Including weapon attacks. So Staff damage is calculated between Spell Damage and max Magicka. If you google for it, you will find the exact formulas, but it isn't really necessary. Roughly speaking, they both factor in equally, and about 10 Magicka equals about 1 Spell Damage.Roughly speaking that is. The exact ratio varies between different Abilities. The same is true for stam based attacks, just with Weapon Damage And Max Stamina.

Ah, that makes sense. This is one of my first characters from game launch. Will try to up my crit and magicka. I would really like to keep my staff as strong as possible.

Skullstachio

If you want an easier time with crit chance, consider crafting five pieces of “Mechanical acuity” as in the next patch, dealing non-crit damage will grant a stack of mechanical acuity, granting you 4 seconds of 20% weapon and spell critical chance, stacks can be gained once every half-second(500ms) this can be stacked up to five times, after the effect ends or reaches 5 stacks, it cannot occur again for 25 seconds.

Its good for beginners who own clockwork city (or have someone craft it for you if you don’t have that specific content.) and it allows for greater stat distribution when building your character in the long run with other sets and the like.