How to stop the crowns inflation

Araneae6537

What evidence do you have that it is the ease of doing crafting writs? I appreciate the add-on but I used to do writs without it and it has only become easier with the changes ZOS added last year with the quest arrows.

Now I won’t make grand statements without evidence but I suspect it’s not the ease of crafting writs but of trading. I know there are people who make their gold in other ways like carry runs but anecdotally, most people whom I’ve heard say how they acquired their in-game wealth have done it through trading and that crafting takes much more time for less profit.

Also, why assume that demand for Crowns is stable? Look at what little rotated through the Crown store last year as compared with this year.

Kwoung

Araneae6537 wrote: »

What evidence do you have that it is the ease of doing crafting writs? I appreciate the add-on but I used to do writs without it and it has only become easier with the changes ZOS added last year with the quest arrows.

Now I won’t make grand statements without evidence but I suspect it’s not the ease of crafting writs but of trading. I know there are people who make their gold in other ways like carry runs but anecdotally, most people whom I’ve heard say how they acquired their in-game wealth have done it through trading and that crafting takes much more time for less profit.

Also, why assume that demand for Crowns is stable? Look at what little rotated through the Crown store last year as compared with this year.

Yes, what is in the crown store does make a huge difference. Especially when sites like TCE don't let you buy things everyone wants, like houses. When nice items or desirable crates show up, my guilds crown exchange goes crazy. When there is nothing but junk, crickets.

As for daily writs, you can literally do them half asleep while working through your first cup of coffee, barely any clicking involved. The addon is of vast benefit, but quite honestly, I have no idea what the effect would be if it was removed. Would everyone still run all their multiple chars through them just taking more time, less chars, or just stop doing them? Impossible to say really, unless they nerf/disable the addon. So possibly, removing it could have zero effect, probably wouldn't, but *could*. Meaning the addon might not turn out to be the issue, peoples desire to make brain dead gold with zero risk is and we would still have spiraling inflation.

Sylvermynx

Kwoung wrote: »

As for daily writs, you can literally do them half asleep while working through your first cup of coffee, barely any clicking involved. The addon is of vast benefit, but quite honestly, I have no idea what the effect would be if it was removed. Would everyone still run all their multiple chars through them just taking more time, less chars, or just stop doing them? Impossible to say really, unless they nerf/disable the addon. So possibly, removing it could have zero effect, probably wouldn't, but *could*. Meaning the addon might not turn out to be the issue, peoples desire to make brain dead gold with zero risk is and we would still have spiraling inflation.

Well, since by now I have 60 characters across both accounts both PC megaservers, I certainly no longer do writs on everyone! I do writs on my 50s (currently I have 6 at various amounts of CP), and that's pretty much it. I don't even do writs during Jubilee on everyone - got WAY burned out the first year I played....

I have a fair amount of gold, but mostly nothing to spend it on. I also buy ESO+ on both accounts on the annual plan, so I generally have plenty of crowns (and when I get short I buy more - I have plenty of disposable income though you can't really say I'm "rich"). By 3.5 years in game now, there's not a lot I'm really wanting to buy. If there was, I'd probably use SOE instead....

So yeah, if they want to disable the addon, I'm personally okay with that. With the in game setup now, I could still craft on the 6 50s pretty fast.

Kwoung

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Kwoung wrote: »

As for daily writs, you can literally do them half asleep while working through your first cup of coffee, barely any clicking involved. The addon is of vast benefit, but quite honestly, I have no idea what the effect would be if it was removed. Would everyone still run all their multiple chars through them just taking more time, less chars, or just stop doing them? Impossible to say really, unless they nerf/disable the addon. So possibly, removing it could have zero effect, probably wouldn't, but *could*. Meaning the addon might not turn out to be the issue, peoples desire to make brain dead gold with zero risk is and we would still have spiraling inflation.

Well, since by now I have 60 characters across both accounts both PC megaservers, I certainly no longer do writs on everyone! I do writs on my 50s (currently I have 6 at various amounts of CP), and that's pretty much it. I don't even do writs during Jubilee on everyone - got WAY burned out the first year I played....

I have a fair amount of gold, but mostly nothing to spend it on. I also buy ESO+ on both accounts on the annual plan, so I generally have plenty of crowns (and when I get short I buy more - I have plenty of disposable income though you can't really say I'm "rich"). By 3.5 years in game now, there's not a lot I'm really wanting to buy. If there was, I'd probably use SOE instead....

So yeah, if they want to disable the addon, I'm personally okay with that. With the in game setup now, I could still craft on the 6 50s pretty fast.

Same boat, different reasons. I pretty much stopped doing dailies on my 15 characters, because there is no point. I have more gold from selling tri-stat glyphs & potions than I will ever need, even when my wife keeps "borrowing" millions to buy new houses (is it really borrowing when it's a one way transaction?). I was doing them simply to get chromium, which I used quite a bit of due to constant changes and trying new things in PVP. But since that has gotten so bad, we only go out a couple times a week now at most and don't care as much, versus daily like we used to. So I am sitting on enough chromium plating's to last me quite a while at this point, so I said why bother?

I also have already bought every head/shoulder that has passed through The Golden over the past few years and still have enough AP to buy it out for quite a while to come, so I don't really need to PVP either... Although we enjoyed it greatly, until just recently, even with the lag, but it has really become trash lately due to decisions ZOS made.

spartaxoxo

Kwoung wrote: »

As for daily writs, you can literally do them half asleep while working through your first cup of coffee, barely any clicking involved. The addon is of vast benefit, but quite honestly, I have no idea what the effect would be if it was removed. Would everyone still run all their multiple chars through them just taking more time, less chars, or just stop doing them? Impossible to say really, unless they nerf/disable the addon. So possibly, removing it could have zero effect, probably wouldn't, but *could*. Meaning the addon might not turn out to be the issue, peoples desire to make brain dead gold with zero risk is and we would still have spiraling inflation.

There is WAY less gold on console because people do writs on way less characters. It's too time consuming.

The two biggest culprits for the high price of crowns on PC is TCE acting as a middleman, increasing price. And Lazy Writs devaluing gold by a lot. I think it's obvious to console players because we don't have either.

Kwoung

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Kwoung wrote: »

As for daily writs, you can literally do them half asleep while working through your first cup of coffee, barely any clicking involved. The addon is of vast benefit, but quite honestly, I have no idea what the effect would be if it was removed. Would everyone still run all their multiple chars through them just taking more time, less chars, or just stop doing them? Impossible to say really, unless they nerf/disable the addon. So possibly, removing it could have zero effect, probably wouldn't, but *could*. Meaning the addon might not turn out to be the issue, peoples desire to make brain dead gold with zero risk is and we would still have spiraling inflation.

There is WAY less gold on console because people do writs on way less characters. It's too time consuming.

The two biggest culprits for the high price of crowns on PC is TCE acting as a middleman, increasing price. And Lazy Writs devaluing gold by a lot. I think it's obvious to console players because we don't have either.

Just curious, as I have never played ESO on console, I do own numerous consoles, I just don't play this game on one. What is your experience with ease of controls between the two in ESO? My experience with other games is, it is multitudes harder to do anything with a controller, than with a mouse & keyboard. I can bang out a daily in a few seconds, addon or not and I know for a fact, there is no way I could do that on console.

So saying it is too time consuming and because we have an addon it's faster, isn't really fair. When it literally doesn't take *that* much more time to do it manually, maybe a 1/3 to 1/2 more time at most. So maybe an hour instead of 45 min to run through all my characters, which isn't a lot of time really, especially when I don't have a lot of other things to do anyways.

Now, had you wrote that a year ago, before ZOS added the changes to make writs faster for everyone, I would have agreed, but now, I am not convinced the addon is the deciding factor in speed of completing writs.

Also, don't forget about WCE, where the sellers set their own prices, zone sellers and the vast number of guild crown exchanges. While TCE rates does have an effect, mostly on zone sellers I think, because they point to it all the time, it is not a great gauge, as there are much better deals to be had if you look for them.

krayphysh

A year ago I would have never traded more than 100 gold per crown. Ive been playing for four years. The solution to this inflation issue is simple: just say no! Do not engage in trading gold for crowns at inflated prices. We, the players, are responsible for the pricing norms. If you allow inflation to become normal, then it will be. My solution - get a job, buy your own crowns with cash, and keep your in-game gold. You can make enough real cash in an hour or so to get a decent sized crown pack. People who are trying to trade their crowns for excessive amounts of gold are doing so because they need gold. If they need gold, and they believe it's so easy to make in game, let them make their own gold. Ultimately time is money. It takes much less time to make real money and buy crowns than it does to earn millions of in game gold. Anyone who disagrees - go make some in game gold. How long did it take you to acquire 4 million gold? How long does it take you to make $25 cash via getting a job? It takes me weeks, maybe months, to make 4 million gold. It takes me an hour to make $40 by going to work. The inflation we are facing in game is exists because many allow it to exist. Stop supporting it and it can't exist. It's really that simple.

Kwoung

krayphysh wrote: »

A year ago I would have never traded more than 100 gold per crown. Ive been playing for four years. The solution to this inflation issue is simple: just say no! Do not engage in trading gold for crowns at inflated prices. We, the players, are responsible for the pricing norms. If you allow inflation to become normal, then it will be. My solution - get a job, buy your own crowns with cash, and keep your in-game gold. You can make enough real cash in an hour or so to get a decent sized crown pack. People who are trying to trade their crowns for excessive amounts of gold are doing so because they need gold. If they need gold, and they believe it's so easy to make in game, let them make their own gold. Ultimately time is money. It takes much less time to make real money and buy crowns than it does to earn millions of in game gold. Anyone who disagrees - go make some in game gold. How long did it take you to acquire 4 million gold? How long does it take you to make $25 cash via getting a job? It takes me weeks, maybe months, to make 4 million gold. It takes me an hour to make $40 by going to work. The inflation we are facing in game is exists because many allow it to exist. Stop supporting it and it can't exist. It's really that simple.

I think you have it backwards. While yes, you can make easy gold selling crowns, it is the buyers who want the items, way more than the sellers want or care about the gold. The sellers are just taking a shortcut to make some quick gold, the buyers are apparently unwilling or unable to buy the crowns themselves in some cases, yet want the items, or have enough gold they just don't care about the rates too much.

Most of the folks who I know who buy crowns, are what folks here would call mega-rich in game and fairly comfortable IRL as well... and can afford to buy crowns if they want. But since the gold is near meaningless to them and literally has no other use in game after a point, they use it instead of their hard earned $$$ to buy crown items, because who wouldn't?

baconoverlord

LoL.

OP claiming anyone buys Crowns for 1500 gold.

The most I've ever seen anyone asking to buy crowns in chat was 700 and that was the last day of an event.

Generally it's 400ish.

So... I guess that inflation thing isn't as bad as you thought?

thorwyn

OP claiming anyone buys Crowns for 1500 gold.

The most I've ever seen anyone asking to buy crowns in chat was 700 and that was the last day of an event.

Generally it's 400ish.

So... I guess that inflation thing isn't as bad as you thought?

That might be the case on console, but on PC, the current rate ist way over 1000:1

baconoverlord

thorwyn wrote: »

OP claiming anyone buys Crowns for 1500 gold.

The most I've ever seen anyone asking to buy crowns in chat was 700 and that was the last day of an event.

Generally it's 400ish.

So... I guess that inflation thing isn't as bad as you thought?

That might be the case on console, but on PC, the current rate ist way over 1000:1

That's.. on PC and in USD too, lol.

krayphysh

Kwoung wrote: »

krayphysh wrote: »

A year ago I would have never traded more than 100 gold per crown. Ive been playing for four years. The solution to this inflation issue is simple: just say no! Do not engage in trading gold for crowns at inflated prices. We, the players, are responsible for the pricing norms. If you allow inflation to become normal, then it will be. My solution - get a job, buy your own crowns with cash, and keep your in-game gold. You can make enough real cash in an hour or so to get a decent sized crown pack. People who are trying to trade their crowns for excessive amounts of gold are doing so because they need gold. If they need gold, and they believe it's so easy to make in game, let them make their own gold. Ultimately time is money. It takes much less time to make real money and buy crowns than it does to earn millions of in game gold. Anyone who disagrees - go make some in game gold. How long did it take you to acquire 4 million gold? How long does it take you to make $25 cash via getting a job? It takes me weeks, maybe months, to make 4 million gold. It takes me an hour to make $40 by going to work. The inflation we are facing in game is exists because many allow it to exist. Stop supporting it and it can't exist. It's really that simple.

I think you have it backwards. While yes, you can make easy gold selling crowns, it is the buyers who want the items, way more than the sellers want or care about the gold. The sellers are just taking a shortcut to make some quick gold, the buyers are apparently unwilling or unable to buy the crowns themselves in some cases, yet want the items, or have enough gold they just don't care about the rates too much.

Most of the folks who I know who buy crowns, are what folks here would call mega-rich in game and fairly comfortable IRL as well... and can afford to buy crowns if they want. But since the gold is near meaningless to them and literally has no other use in game after a point, they use it instead of their hard earned $$$ to buy crown items, because who wouldn't?

Understandable, I can agree that people who buy crowns with cash are generally fairly comfortable in real life...and I'd assume people who trade in game gold for crowns don't have as much cash to blow IRL. If you do writs with all 18 toons that you have available on an account, you can make roughly 100K. That could take 45 mins for some, but after you get burnt out on running the writ loop, it can take much longer because you loose the interest and attention span due to repetition. What I'm saying is...in a way...that time is as valuable as cash. You can invest your time, say 40 hours, to earn a few million in-game gold; or you could go make some real cash with that same 40 hours and buy more crowns than you'd probably find any use for. That was my suggestion for solving the inflation issue. In any case, as long as everyone is content with the trades they score in game, that's all that matters. :-) I'm sure everyone has different reasons and circumstances that affect their ability to get out and make some real cash...maybe some are sick, too old to work, ect. In that case, it might be more convenient for them to make in game gold to trade for crowns. I can't speak for anyone else, but I personally think the inflation rate has gotten out of hand. I have plenty of crowns and gold, and am not interested in trading either lol...but if I ever decided to trade any of my crowns for gold, I wouldn't have the heart to take advantage of anyone considering the time it takes to make cash vs in-game gold. It's all good though, the inflation will eventually work itself out. I just found the topic interesting because the normal rate was 100g per crown until about this time last year...maybe 160g per crown if the seller was a bit on the stingy side. Now I see people in the zone chat asking to trade 800g per crown, and it's not something I'd consider normal. It would be like going to the store to buy a loaf of bread that's normally $2-$3, but once you get to the store, the price tag has changed to $25. Prob not the best example, but that's how I feel about it lol. Like I said though, if everyone is content with their trades, that's all the matters 😊🤘🤘🤘

pleximus

Maya_Nur wrote: »

1) An idea for a gold sink: [City management] We have so many ruined villages, towns and cities so we may reconstruct them by investing a huge amount of gold!

I'm all in for this!! Sounds like an awesome investment, and it's world building too.

risfi

krayphysh wrote: »

You can invest your time, say 40 hours, to earn a few million in-game gold; or you could go make some real cash with that same 40 hours and buy more crowns than you'd probably find any use for.

Unfortunately not everyone is good at basic arithmetic and/or doesn't care to do the math. I personally see this as a reason for the current crown rates.

If one makes 100k/hour on PC-EU and 3 eur/h IRL (which is well, well below minimum wage in all but a few EU countries), they make 10 times more crowns in an hour by working irl than by farming/doing writs. In other words, by buying crowns at current rates, one earns 30 cents per hour.

This might be acceptable (or the only option) for some people (teenagers in Bulgaria under a home arrest, I guess? Or people who want crates in a country where you can't buy them), but I can't understand how most people (especially those who are fairly comfortable IRL) can value their time that low, especially if they enjoy other aspects of the game more than grinding gold.

Amottica

thorwyn wrote: »

OP claiming anyone buys Crowns for 1500 gold.

The most I've ever seen anyone asking to buy crowns in chat was 700 and that was the last day of an event.

Generally it's 400ish.

So... I guess that inflation thing isn't as bad as you thought?

That might be the case on console, but on PC, the current rate ist way over 1000:1

It would make sense that supply and demand would differ from platform to platform and sever to server.

Kwoung

krayphysh wrote: »

Kwoung wrote: »

krayphysh wrote: »

A year ago I would have never traded more than 100 gold per crown. Ive been playing for four years. The solution to this inflation issue is simple: just say no! Do not engage in trading gold for crowns at inflated prices. We, the players, are responsible for the pricing norms. If you allow inflation to become normal, then it will be. My solution - get a job, buy your own crowns with cash, and keep your in-game gold. You can make enough real cash in an hour or so to get a decent sized crown pack. People who are trying to trade their crowns for excessive amounts of gold are doing so because they need gold. If they need gold, and they believe it's so easy to make in game, let them make their own gold. Ultimately time is money. It takes much less time to make real money and buy crowns than it does to earn millions of in game gold. Anyone who disagrees - go make some in game gold. How long did it take you to acquire 4 million gold? How long does it take you to make $25 cash via getting a job? It takes me weeks, maybe months, to make 4 million gold. It takes me an hour to make $40 by going to work. The inflation we are facing in game is exists because many allow it to exist. Stop supporting it and it can't exist. It's really that simple.

I think you have it backwards. While yes, you can make easy gold selling crowns, it is the buyers who want the items, way more than the sellers want or care about the gold. The sellers are just taking a shortcut to make some quick gold, the buyers are apparently unwilling or unable to buy the crowns themselves in some cases, yet want the items, or have enough gold they just don't care about the rates too much.

Most of the folks who I know who buy crowns, are what folks here would call mega-rich in game and fairly comfortable IRL as well... and can afford to buy crowns if they want. But since the gold is near meaningless to them and literally has no other use in game after a point, they use it instead of their hard earned $$$ to buy crown items, because who wouldn't?

Understandable, I can agree that people who buy crowns with cash are generally fairly comfortable in real life...and I'd assume people who trade in game gold for crowns don't have as much cash to blow IRL. If you do writs with all 18 toons that you have available on an account, you can make roughly 100K. That could take 45 mins for some, but after you get burnt out on running the writ loop, it can take much longer because you loose the interest and attention span due to repetition. What I'm saying is...in a way...that time is as valuable as cash. You can invest your time, say 40 hours, to earn a few million in-game gold; or you could go make some real cash with that same 40 hours and buy more crowns than you'd probably find any use for. That was my suggestion for solving the inflation issue. In any case, as long as everyone is content with the trades they score in game, that's all that matters. :-) I'm sure everyone has different reasons and circumstances that affect their ability to get out and make some real cash...maybe some are sick, too old to work, ect. In that case, it might be more convenient for them to make in game gold to trade for crowns. I can't speak for anyone else, but I personally think the inflation rate has gotten out of hand. I have plenty of crowns and gold, and am not interested in trading either lol...but if I ever decided to trade any of my crowns for gold, I wouldn't have the heart to take advantage of anyone considering the time it takes to make cash vs in-game gold. It's all good though, the inflation will eventually work itself out. I just found the topic interesting because the normal rate was 100g per crown until about this time last year...maybe 160g per crown if the seller was a bit on the stingy side. Now I see people in the zone chat asking to trade 800g per crown, and it's not something I'd consider normal. It would be like going to the store to buy a loaf of bread that's normally $2-$3, but once you get to the store, the price tag has changed to $25. Prob not the best example, but that's how I feel about it lol. Like I said though, if everyone is content with their trades, that's all the matters 😊🤘🤘🤘

Oh, I totally agree and I touched upon it in one of my previous posts as well. It is a way better time investment to simply earn the $$$ IRL and buy crown cards at Gamestop, than using gold for the exchange. Even more so if you can use a credit card and buy them when they go on sale here.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Araneae6537 wrote: »

What evidence do you have that it is the ease of doing crafting writs? I appreciate the add-on but I used to do writs without it and it has only become easier with the changes ZOS added last year with the quest arrows.

Now I won’t make grand statements without evidence but I suspect it’s not the ease of crafting writs but of trading. I know there are people who make their gold in other ways like carry runs but anecdotally, most people whom I’ve heard say how they acquired their in-game wealth have done it through trading and that crafting takes much more time for less profit.

Also, why assume that demand for Crowns is stable? Look at what little rotated through the Crown store last year as compared with this year.

Again, there are two main factors here that @kwong and I were discussing. One is inflation, the other is wealth consolidation. Without hard numbers that none of us have access to, we will never know what the bigger driver on prices actually is.

In terms of inflation: Let's say you're a government and for some reason your goal is to actually cause rampant inflation. What is the easiest way to do that? Simple, start printing money out of thin air. More you print, the more your currency is devalued, i.e., inflation.

This is exactly what crafting writs does. There is no simpler way to create money out of thin air in ESO than to do writs. Every time you turn in a set of writs, poof, there is another 5k of gold in Tamriel. I know because I did writs for years on as many as 18 toons. Between my gold and the mm value of my craft bag, I am well into 9 figures of wealth. It is nearly all from doing writs. Now the craft bag component is really not what we are talking about, but the mid 8 figures of gold in my bank account certainly is. It was created from writs. I didn't get it from other players, it came directly from ZOS. New currency was introduced into the game.

In terms of wealth consolidation: Well, certainly, people with really deep pockets relative to the average player can artificially drive up the prices of luxury items. This is also happening. Trading addons arguably contribute to this because they make it easy to spot opportunities to flip, but they also arguably curb it to some degree, because sellers have a better idea of what their product is worth. But remember, trading between players doesn't create new money. It simply transfers money from player to player.

What I do know. Inflation is far more of an issue on PC than console, and it is far easier to create money on PC than it is on console. In the creation department, addons like MM, and TTC are irrelevant. But addons like dolgubons (which i used for years) is very relevant, as it simplifies the process of doing writs significantly. The only other distinction between PC and console in the "gold creation" department is the abundance of Bots. Certainly bots that farm gold, also move the needle on the gold being created/coming in to the game. My best guess is that there are more bots on PC than console, but certainly, console has bots.