The Concept of Seperating Race from Racials.

Myux

hey this threads poppin. i hope all of u are having fun

wolfie1.0.

BlueRaven wrote: »

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wtlonewolf20 wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

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VaranisArano wrote: »

No, and none of your counterarguments are particularly convincing.

Race and the racial tendencies to certain archetypes are a consistent part of the lore of The Elder Scrolls, even if the gameplay representations of that have changed from game to game. That's true over and above whatever special talents the player character have. Consider how distinct the naturally high magic skills of the Altmer make them from the warriors of Hammerfell throughout the TES series, or how the Khajiit propensity for stealth leads to a cultural stigma as Thieves that isn't shared by other races, even though we know that NPCs of every race can be gifted Thieves.

This is a roleplaying game. Part of TES roleplaying is playing as a member of a certain race, even if the racial bonuses aren't completely consistent from game to game. I don't know if you've ever played D&D, but this is basically the equivalent of telling the DM, "Hey, I want to play an Elf, but can I not take the stat plus/minuses that elves get, but instead take the extra feats humans get because I want them?"

It's also worth noting the impact of racial bonuses on roleplay. When ESO took away the stealth passive from Bosmer, who've traditionally been stealthy in the lore and past games, a number of players complained they felt there weren't playing a real bosmer anymore. That's a testament to the identity that these racial bonuses give to the roleplaying experience. Sure, one could say "Oh, well, now you can just steal the Khajiit stealth passive!" That's, ah, not really the point.

And "ends racism" is ridiculous in ESO when two alliances are literally based on their three races overcoming their cultural antipathy for each other. TES racism strongly informs the plot and worldbuilding of Daggerfall, Morrowind, and Skyrim. It's very much a part of the setting, worldbuilding, and the lore. Ironically, if you do away with the substantive racial differences entirely, you render TES racism solely about appearance, when it never has been before.

So while I can understand the gripes about how ESO races are implemented such that there's inevitably a BIS racial choice for certain builds and roles...the lore of The Elder Scrolls is such that there are substantive differences between the races that drive many of the conflicts shown in the games.


Finally, it's a surefire way to bias your poll when you preemptively tell the people who disagree with your counterarguments to "stop talking & be quiet for several days."

Your arguments about lore don’t sway me when the eso combat team gets the lore so wrong.

-Which race is supposed to be tanks? (Hint: Its not nords nor argonians.)

-Which race is supposed to be leather armor berserkers? (Hint: Its not orcs.)

-And which is the stealthiest race? (Hint: Its not kahjiit.) in fact in eso imperials have better stealth passives then Bosmers do.

Justify that in lore, in eso why are imperials better at stealth than Bosmers?

The weird part is the narrative half of the game gets it more or less right. But it’s like the combat team works on a different game with much different lore.

So it’s hard for me to sit here and support traditional hard coded racial traits when zos themselves appears to care so little about the lore behind them. Is getting the lore wrong solely the combat teams purview?
Make the racials more pliable if we are just playing fast and loose with the lore anyway, at least in will possibly break the race meta and make players a bit more happy.

So.... you trust the same team that screwed up racial passives to allow you to pick your own ones to do it in such a way that they won't screw that up as well?

I mean as far as I am concerned racial passives should be trivial things like that all so very useful extra swim speed argonians get. Or that khajiit get extra light attack damage when they don't have a weapon equipped. Something menial.

But if you want to go down the route of picking your own. Fine whatever let zos do it. Then a week after implementation we will all be back here on the forums complaining about how xyz racial passive combo is OP and be listening to criess of doom and nerfdom.

First I would be perfect fine with racial passives being absolutely trivial. In Skyrim, the racial passives over time became trivial to the point that only the races “special ability” meant anything. And even then that was pretty minor thing. A system like that would be fine.

Second, the forums will complain about anything. Literally anything.
“This armor set is too powerful in pvp!”
The obvious reply from me would be, “Then maybe you should start wearing it.”

But those people have the right to complain, because they feel what is happening is not fun.

Third, I don’t really want to pick my own racial passives, but I would like them to be done right. That means they should be balanced, pliable, and lore friendly. But zos seem intractable in that reguard. They have picked narrow focused roles for all the races then walked away because that is just an easy thing to do design wise.

Yes you CAN have a bosmer healer, but really it’s a PvP stamina race. That is what it is designed for.

Yes you CAN have an argonian dps, but really it’s a healer/tank race. That is what it is designed for.

I want to make an altmer assassin and I want the passives to be pliable enough that they don’t always feel second rate.

I want a new player to pick any race for any role and somehow not have “failed” at endgame before they left the character creation screen.

Right now we don’t have that, and I am just exasperated enough to go along with any suggestion to change what we have now.

Fourth, I have my own ideas about how the racials should be done that are different than anything so far suggested. And would absolutely 100 percent fit with how it’s done in the ES franchise. But I really doubt anyone would like it.

I mean I don't disagree with your points. I just don't trust ZOS when it comes to making sweeping changes. They tend to go to extreme things

newtinmpls

BlueRaven wrote: »

Your arguments about lore don’t sway me when the eso combat team gets the lore so wrong.

I agree that ESO gets ridiculous amounts of lore wrong, illogical and mangled to outright weirdness.

I still want them as racials and not as a generic batch of pickable perks. To get that, I'm willing to put up with interpretations that I don't agree with in specifics.