Add an analogue of Voledrang for magic classes. (Maybe the Staff of Magnus)

Merllow

In PVP modes, whatever one may say, everything is biased towards Stamina (if you think that this is not so, you probably still play a little). But the most obvious thing is that the game has a super weapon for lovers of stamina (Voledrang), but this thing is generally useless in the hands of Mages. Shake Cyrodiil and add an equally powerful staff?

ealdwin

IIRC, Sanguine's Rose and Auriel's Bow were two weapons that were planned for adding to Cyrodiil. But, I'd wager those are likely on pause due do to feedback regarding how Volendrung spawns and whether it is working as intended.

CrashTest

No more of these things please. Volendrung is horrible.

DrSlaughtr

Yes let's add another weapon to spawn that'll make people sign off.

xDeusEJRx

I don't wanna be super negative, but hammer was really bad for pvp in many ways. Terrible rotation when it comes to who it spawns to, it fosters really bad gameplay because it brings the entire server to one area(I like tri-alliance fights but when the entire server is pushing on one area with a mega weapon, not even a full 12 man group will be able to stop it, mainly because of the lag it generates).

In all honesty hammer is arguably better than emperor is to a degree. Emperor is dependent on the person who gets emp, because it boosts that character's stats, but if I was a tank emperor with 1k spell damage, 500 penetration, with super high health, etc. If i'm not running an effective build as emperor, my emperorship won't amount to much. I wouldn't be very effective in pushing the map, maybe for trolling people but hammer is guaranteed to be able to wipe a full group with just their ultimate alone.

We really really really do not need another one of these in cyrodiil

Merllow

Ahahah you are so funny. You think that I am proposing to add a second powerful artifact that will appear along with the voledrang and they will act side by side. Of course, this is not so, it should look like a random choice between two artifacts (Voledrang or Staff), simply because Mages must have such experience, it would be fair.

Let's be clear:
1) you don't like voledrang
2) You want to be removed, but it will never be removed.
3) If a staff is added, it will appear instead of Voledrang and there will simply be something similar and that's it
4) Stamina is more than magic in the PVP world, perhaps the stamina who took the staff will be weak, and there will be no such destruction of the population

It just isn't fair that sorcerers cannot use all tools because they choose to play magic. I hope the meaning is clear and there are some pluses in this too.

xDeusEJRx

Merllow wrote: »

Ahahah you are so funny. You think that I am proposing to add a second powerful artifact that will appear along with the voledrang and they will act side by side. Of course, this is not so, it should look like a random choice between two artifacts (Voledrang or Staff), simply because Mages must have such experience, it would be fair.

Let's be clear:
1) you don't like voledrang
2) You want to be removed, but it will never be removed.
3) If a staff is added, it will appear instead of Voledrang and there will simply be something similar and that's it
4) Stamina is more than magic in the PVP world, perhaps the stamina who took the staff will be weak, and there will be no such destruction of the population

It just isn't fair that sorcerers cannot use all tools because they choose to play magic. I hope the meaning is clear and there are some pluses in this too.

I think you're referring to me, but no. None of these are the case. I don't hate the concept of volendrung, but what it brings is what's annoying. It has way better kill power than any other mechanics in cyrodiil (i.e. emperor, bombers, etc). Ult alone wrecks a full group caught in it.
I don't support any type of insta-kill weapons in game because what happens when an insta kill weapon shows up? everyone wants it, and everyone will come to get it, and that means EVERYONE in cyrodiil chases down the weapon. Making faction stacking and lag even worse because you have the entire server pushing for one thing. It would be another thing if the weapon provided emperor esque buffs, it's only effective if your build is strong, otherwise you can be wiped. Hammer doesn't function that way, you WILL be able to kill people when you get an ultimate. Not even an organized ball group is surviving a hammer ultimate if they all get caught in it.

I dont support weapons like hammer because it creates really bad gameplay and heavily tips the map in favor of whoever gets it. Emperor doesn't mean your faction can roll over every single keep they go to, if you have a bad emperor, they can not do anything at all, the hammer on the other hand IS ALWAYS EFFECTIVE. There's no learning curve or difficulty to using it, and I don't support any other special weapon like it because it just breeds really bad map play while it's active

Merllow

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

Merllow wrote: »

Ahahah you are so funny. You think that I am proposing to add a second powerful artifact that will appear along with the voledrang and they will act side by side. Of course, this is not so, it should look like a random choice between two artifacts (Voledrang or Staff), simply because Mages must have such experience, it would be fair.

Let's be clear:
1) you don't like voledrang
2) You want to be removed, but it will never be removed.
3) If a staff is added, it will appear instead of Voledrang and there will simply be something similar and that's it
4) Stamina is more than magic in the PVP world, perhaps the stamina who took the staff will be weak, and there will be no such destruction of the population

It just isn't fair that sorcerers cannot use all tools because they choose to play magic. I hope the meaning is clear and there are some pluses in this too.

I think you're referring to me, but no. None of these are the case. I don't hate the concept of volendrung, but what it brings is what's annoying. It has way better kill power than any other mechanics in cyrodiil (i.e. emperor, bombers, etc). Ult alone wrecks a full group caught in it.
I don't support any type of insta-kill weapons in game because what happens when an insta kill weapon shows up? everyone wants it, and everyone will come to get it, and that means EVERYONE in cyrodiil chases down the weapon. Making faction stacking and lag even worse because you have the entire server pushing for one thing. It would be another thing if the weapon provided emperor esque buffs, it's only effective if your build is strong, otherwise you can be wiped. Hammer doesn't function that way, you WILL be able to kill people when you get an ultimate. Not even an organized ball group is surviving a hammer ultimate if they all get caught in it.

I dont support weapons like hammer because it creates really bad gameplay and heavily tips the map in favor of whoever gets it. Emperor doesn't mean your faction can roll over every single keep they go to, if you have a bad emperor, they can not do anything at all, the hammer on the other hand IS ALWAYS EFFECTIVE. There's no learning curve or difficulty to using it, and I don't support any other special weapon like it because it just breeds really bad map play while it's active

You are talking about something else. The voledrang will never be removed from the game, and since the dominant builds are stamina, the effectiveness of the voledrang will be used as often as you say. And the voledrang is strong only in the hands of a stamina, if a magician takes it, then any tanked stamina will kill you.
I don’t know why you don’t read anything Well, let it be only voledrang, as you want)

Vaoh

Next in line was Auriel’s Bow. Hopefully they never release more of these though.

Vevvev

If they add more weapons they need to add two more, the weapons need to be locked to their randomly assigned Alliance, and if the weapon is on the ground for too long it ports back to the Alliance who it was assigned to and can't be claimed by a different Alliance. That way when the madness begins the playing field is equal (Or as equal as the balancing between the weapons) and one faction won't get all the weapons and totally steamroll everything.

AJones43865

I feel like a better solution would be to remove Volendung from the game, not add another agent of chaos and lag to PvP.

Merllow

This is not another weapon. This is an option for what appears in the game Voledrang or Staff. There will not be two options at once, so what's the difference if you meet a hammer or a staff.

Kwoung

Merllow wrote: »

This is not another weapon. This is an option for what appears in the game Voledrang or Staff. There will not be two options at once, so what's the difference if you meet a hammer or a staff.

Until they fix the lag, these shouldn't exist at all. It kills entire groups, mostly because it is unavoidable due to you being locked in place by lag and unable to even walk/dodge away.

Everyone understands what you mean, but no one wants another of these things in Cyrodiil, regardless of whether they spawn one at a time. Which BTW, may be the intention, but it would be broken and we would end up with 2-3 Volendrungs and 2-3 staffs running around at once based on their past success rates of implementing changes in Cyrodiil.

doesurmindglow

I think it's a theoretically cool idea that unfortunately can't work in practice because of the performance issues in Cyrodiil. Until those are more meaningfully resolved, we should probably have less, not more, hammers.

To me it's kinda too bad.

finehair

More artifacts... More. MOOREEEEE

Just make sure that the alliance holding an artifact can't use the other one, should be "your alliance already wielding a powerful artifact" message seen on screen.
The new one should make a huge aoe bubble that breaks formations aka scattering people all around the place. Use it on hammer stacking faction to get the hammer all by himself. Imagine a death's wind set effect but on target location with larger pushing radius.

Merllow

I understand what you are talking about, but it makes no difference to me that the staff or the hammer will be buggy, as long as no one is an outcast in this version. I will even be glad if the hammer is removed, then everyone will be equal. In the meantime, I watch how the players are having fun running in a stamina with a hammer.

DrSlaughtr

I mean, hammer significantly increases all three stats, further buffed if you're running sugar skulls, which you should be.

If you had a ranged weapon that could take down walls, it would be much too powerful. The only hope you have right now of killing hammer is when they are hitting a wall or door, as they must be stationary.

If the staff can't take down walls or doors, then what's it's propose?

Katheriah

Can we get a staff which has an ulti that casts an ENORMOUS RAGING, THUNDERSTORM TORNADO WITH SHARKS THAT KILLS EVERYONE IN IT.

Thank you.

Merllow

TheEndBringer wrote: »

I mean, hammer significantly increases all three stats, further buffed if you're running sugar skulls, which you should be.

If you had a ranged weapon that could take down walls, it would be much too powerful. The only hope you have right now of killing hammer is when they are hitting a wall or door, as they must be stationary.

If the staff can't take down walls or doors, then what's it's propose?

And you will have all the abilities for stamina (60k mana and 30k stamina; 1000 weapon damage; 1000 stamina regen; 19k protection from physical damage when you fight for melee). Oh yes, you will be an excellent owner of a hammer that any ordinary player can kill)) Why do you even write about sugar skulls, it does not make you a stamina player. Everything can be created balanced (with respect to hammer and staff). And finally, the judgment that the staff will be super-powerful does not mean that you just need to ignore the players for the magic.

Merllow

Katheriah wrote: »

Can we get a staff which has an ulti that casts an ENORMOUS RAGING, THUNDERSTORM TORNADO WITH SHARKS THAT KILLS EVERYONE IN IT.

Thank you.

What is the difference from a hammer, which has a tornado and which kills everything around (if it is in the hands of a stamina)?
PS: corrected a typo

DrSlaughtr

Merllow wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

I mean, hammer significantly increases all three stats, further buffed if you're running sugar skulls, which you should be.

If you had a ranged weapon that could take down walls, it would be much too powerful. The only hope you have right now of killing hammer is when they are hitting a wall or door, as they must be stationary.

If the staff can't take down walls or doors, then what's it's propose?

And you will have all the abilities for stamina (60k mana and 30k stamina; 1000 weapon damage; 1000 stamina regen; 19k protection from physical damage when you fight for melee). Oh yes, you will be an excellent owner of a hammer that any ordinary player can kill)) Why do you even write about sugar skulls, it does not make you a stamina player. Everything can be created balanced (with respect to hammer and staff). And finally, the judgment that the staff will be super-powerful does not mean that you just need to ignore the players for the magic.

I think you're misunderstanding the purpose of hammer. What you want you can already get. Be emp.

Hammer is primarily geared toward which seiging. Yes you can wipe groups if you get the ultimate but without the ulti, if you get hit by a few enemies or just one with good burst, you're dead. It's not a 1vX tool. It's a mobile seige unit.

So if you just made it ranged, it would be much harder to kill, because the easiest place to kill hammer is when it's forced to be stationary. If you could just stand 40 meters back and pew pew the wall, it would be really ridiculous.

Merllow

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Merllow wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

I mean, hammer significantly increases all three stats, further buffed if you're running sugar skulls, which you should be.

If you had a ranged weapon that could take down walls, it would be much too powerful. The only hope you have right now of killing hammer is when they are hitting a wall or door, as they must be stationary.

If the staff can't take down walls or doors, then what's it's propose?

And you will have all the abilities for stamina (60k mana and 30k stamina; 1000 weapon damage; 1000 stamina regen; 19k protection from physical damage when you fight for melee). Oh yes, you will be an excellent owner of a hammer that any ordinary player can kill)) Why do you even write about sugar skulls, it does not make you a stamina player. Everything can be created balanced (with respect to hammer and staff). And finally, the judgment that the staff will be super-powerful does not mean that you just need to ignore the players for the magic.

I think you're misunderstanding the purpose of hammer. What you want you can already get. Be emp.

Hammer is primarily geared toward which seiging. Yes you can wipe groups if you get the ultimate but without the ulti, if you get hit by a few enemies or just one with good burst, you're dead. It's not a 1vX tool. It's a mobile seige unit.

So if you just made it ranged, it would be much harder to kill, because the easiest place to kill hammer is when it's forced to be stationary. If you could just stand 40 meters back and pew pew the wall, it would be really ridiculous.

I never wrote about the fact that I need a tool 1 v x. I just pointed out the existing discrimination of magic classes, we cannot use all kinds of entertainment, the hammer is useless for us. The game has two directions of Stamina and Magic, but magic loses everywhere.
[snip]

[edited for baiting]

Merllow

Even if the idea of the staff is so disliked by everyone, let them at least make it so that the hammer gives statistics that are equal for everyone. That is, any class takes a hammer and gets 33k defense, 10k weapon strength, 3k stamina regen, 50k stamina reserve. Maybe it will at least become so clear.

DrSlaughtr

I run it all the time on my magplar. There's no disadvantage.

Merllow

TheEndBringer wrote: »

I run it all the time on my magplar. There's no disadvantage.

I believed it, of course)

Kwoung

Merllow wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

I run it all the time on my magplar. There's no disadvantage.

I believed it, of course)

Just curious, exactly how many times have you had the hammer and exactly what went wrong when you did, to make you feel there needs to be a staff as well? Only asking because I exclusively play a MagSorc in PVP and have ended up with it numerous times (generally by accident), and the only issue I experienced was not remembering which button did what. Other than that, I felt fairly all powerful and did some very serious damage.

Merllow

Kwoung wrote: »

Merllow wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

I run it all the time on my magplar. There's no disadvantage.

I believed it, of course)

Just curious, exactly how many times have you had the hammer and exactly what went wrong when you did, to make you feel there needs to be a staff as well? Only asking because I exclusively play a MagSorc in PVP and have ended up with it numerous times (generally by accident), and the only issue I experienced was not remembering which button did what. Other than that, I felt fairly all powerful and did some very serious damage.

When you learn how and what to press, you will notice that you do not have enough stamina and stamina regeneration, because you have developed this resource, as for a magic class. And your ability damage will be low, even lower than some regular players, because you don't have that much spell power. Once I ran into a crowd of enemies with the ultimate with a hammer and didn't kill anyone, it just shows how low the damage is. And in addition, you will see a 60k magic reserve, but it does not give you anything at all, there is little justice in this.

Flangdoodle

THE WABBAJACK! You can only cast it once, you have x minutes to use it or it vanishes, and everybody w/n x meters including the caster turns into a random creature, but then transports to their home gate next to the Cheesemongers Hollow.

Kwoung

Merllow wrote: »

Kwoung wrote: »

Merllow wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

I run it all the time on my magplar. There's no disadvantage.

I believed it, of course)

Just curious, exactly how many times have you had the hammer and exactly what went wrong when you did, to make you feel there needs to be a staff as well? Only asking because I exclusively play a MagSorc in PVP and have ended up with it numerous times (generally by accident), and the only issue I experienced was not remembering which button did what. Other than that, I felt fairly all powerful and did some very serious damage.

When you learn how and what to press, you will notice that you do not have enough stamina and stamina regeneration, because you have developed this resource, as for a magic class. And your ability damage will be low, even lower than some regular players, because you don't have that much spell power. Once I ran into a crowd of enemies with the ultimate with a hammer and didn't kill anyone, it just shows how low the damage is. And in addition, you will see a 60k magic reserve, but it does not give you anything at all, there is little justice in this.

Nope, didn't notice that at all. But then again, even as a magsorc, I run somewhere in the 25K range for stam, because... breaking free is a thing that seems to come up every so often. I also have really high spell damage, or did you mean to say weapon damage? I also did manage to hit the ulti, numerous times in fact... I think I wiped out half of AD with it? Honestly, I am just running a cyro build, nothing special, but built for the zone and it seems to do me pretty well.

DrSlaughtr

Merllow wrote: »

Kwoung wrote: »

Merllow wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

I run it all the time on my magplar. There's no disadvantage.

I believed it, of course)

Just curious, exactly how many times have you had the hammer and exactly what went wrong when you did, to make you feel there needs to be a staff as well? Only asking because I exclusively play a MagSorc in PVP and have ended up with it numerous times (generally by accident), and the only issue I experienced was not remembering which button did what. Other than that, I felt fairly all powerful and did some very serious damage.

When you learn how and what to press, you will notice that you do not have enough stamina and stamina regeneration, because you have developed this resource, as for a magic class. And your ability damage will be low, even lower than some regular players, because you don't have that much spell power. Once I ran into a crowd of enemies with the ultimate with a hammer and didn't kill anyone, it just shows how low the damage is. And in addition, you will see a 60k magic reserve, but it does not give you anything at all, there is little justice in this.

To be fair, the hammer's primary purpose isn't to beat people to death. It has two main draws.

Cracking open buildings.

Ulti wiping the opposition.

This is why the best hammer runners are actually tanks who usually sit at 25k or less stamina.

Respectfully, probably what you aren't used to is sustaining a stamina rotation.

On my stam toons, I sit between 28 and 31k stamina. I would wager you clear that with the hammer bonus unless you aren't running sugar skulls (which you really should).

99% of my dozen + hammer runs were on a magplar. But I'm used to stamina characters so it was never hard to sustain for me.

In fact, the best hammer runners avoid running into a fight unless absolutely necessary because that's how you lose hammer. When you have no choice, you focus should on building ultimate as fast as possible via light and heavy attacks with skills in between, but again, you're not trying to cut down a zerg with your hammer skills. You're just getting that ultimate up which then can be dropped to kill.

Otherwise you really just want to focus on your main job of beating down walls and doors while being shielded by pocket healers.

Merllow

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Merllow wrote: »

Kwoung wrote: »

Merllow wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

I run it all the time on my magplar. There's no disadvantage.

I believed it, of course)

Just curious, exactly how many times have you had the hammer and exactly what went wrong when you did, to make you feel there needs to be a staff as well? Only asking because I exclusively play a MagSorc in PVP and have ended up with it numerous times (generally by accident), and the only issue I experienced was not remembering which button did what. Other than that, I felt fairly all powerful and did some very serious damage.

When you learn how and what to press, you will notice that you do not have enough stamina and stamina regeneration, because you have developed this resource, as for a magic class. And your ability damage will be low, even lower than some regular players, because you don't have that much spell power. Once I ran into a crowd of enemies with the ultimate with a hammer and didn't kill anyone, it just shows how low the damage is. And in addition, you will see a 60k magic reserve, but it does not give you anything at all, there is little justice in this.

To be fair, the hammer's primary purpose isn't to beat people to death. It has two main draws.

Cracking open buildings.

Ulti wiping the opposition.

This is why the best hammer runners are actually tanks who usually sit at 25k or less stamina.

Respectfully, probably what you aren't used to is sustaining a stamina rotation.

On my stam toons, I sit between 28 and 31k stamina. I would wager you clear that with the hammer bonus unless you aren't running sugar skulls (which you really should).

99% of my dozen + hammer runs were on a magplar. But I'm used to stamina characters so it was never hard to sustain for me.

In fact, the best hammer runners avoid running into a fight unless absolutely necessary because that's how you lose hammer. When you have no choice, you focus should on building ultimate as fast as possible via light and heavy attacks with skills in between, but again, you're not trying to cut down a zerg with your hammer skills. You're just getting that ultimate up which then can be dropped to kill.

Otherwise you really just want to focus on your main job of beating down walls and doors while being shielded by pocket healers.

For some reason you forgot about the regeneration of stamina. And there was no talk about the destruction of everyone around