KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »yea so basicly if NEARLY every sources now gives u weap and spell dmg why even have 2 stats just delete them and create a single dmg stat
wouldnt change much and would make it a bit simpler
also while we are at it remove crti dmg / healing cause for crit chance its crit healing and crit dmg too so why split it with the dmg and healing - would also balance something like axes which atm only provide crit dmg and no healing while sword provide more dmg and healing
edit nearly forgot the mesion that the diffrence between mag and stam crit chance is useless to if NEARLY every source provide both of it
They need to merge weapon and spell damage
They need to merge weapon and spell critical
They already did these change on sets and some skills, now they only need to change those buffs
Combine all buffs, combine all stats, homogenization for everyone and everything! Hallelujah!!
MashmalloMan wrote: »No thanks. As stx put it.. that wouldn't be good.
Right now there is still a distinction via Resources/Resource Regen which happens to be present on armor too. Spell/Weapon damage bonuses aren't completely hybrid as Enchants on Jewelry still go one way or the other.
There has to be some downsides to being a "hybrid", a small decrease in damage via lower resource pool and maybe 600-400 less damage via enchants is a pretty solid middle ground.
Yeah. Uh, yeah, that's pretty true, uh. . . yeah, that's true. Yeah.
I've made like six posts about this now. It just makes more sense to have a single damage stat and a single crit stat.
@Stx You make this same "joke" every time this gets mentioned, so let me ask you this. What depth is being provided by the mag/stam divide? What would you lose by merging these stats?
@MashmalloMan Same question as for Stx kind of. Why does there need to be a DPS loss for being hybrid? How does that make the game more fun?
MashmalloMan wrote: »
A hybrid should never be on par or equal to a pure build like OP is asking for them to be because you run into the issue of them being a "Jack of all trades AND master of all." At that point, why would you ever make a pure build? Isn't it more interesting to have 3 ways to play, rather than 1. As Stx put it.. Homogenization.
And I'm not saying I don't support the idea of hybrids.. I will go on record as being a strong suporter of the idea for years.. but it would be taking it too far to make it 100% equal by combining the stats. There is enough wiggle room in the game now for Hybrids to excel, while years ago it was a much larger difference with CP 1.0, non dynamic light/heavy attacks, crappy passives, seperated debuffs/buffs, and the newest addition set bonuses.
. . .
A Hybrid Sorc would combine things in interesting ways (and I've already tried this, it's quite fun). Eg. Critical Surge, Streak, Dark Exchange, Dizzy Swing, Haunting Curse, Mages Wrath, Executioner. Now they have 2 executes, 1 is delayed, the other is instant. It's a completely different playstyle, but it has it's drawbacks so it won't be for everyone leaving room for build diversity still.
Yeah. Uh, yeah, that's pretty true, uh. . . yeah, that's true. Yeah.
I've made like six posts about this now. It just makes more sense to have a single damage stat and a single crit stat.
Stx You make this same "joke" every time this gets mentioned, so let me ask you this. What depth is being provided by the mag/stam divide? What would you lose by merging these stats?
MashmalloMan Same question as for Stx kind of. Why does there need to be a DPS loss for being hybrid? How does that make the game more fun?
VaranisArano wrote: »The primary depth between Stamina and Magicka is that it creates more viable builds.
If we were all homogenized, you'd have about 18+ builds in PVE: Sorc tank, Sorc DD, Sorc Healer. Dk Tank, DK DD, DK Healer. You can see where this is going. Not every class can fill every role well, but it can generally do it.
Instead, we've got close to twice that. MagSorc DD/Stam Sorc DD. MagDK Tank/Stam DK Tank. StamWarden and Stam Necro even have a little group healing capacity, but even if we leave out healers, Stamina classes add roughly 12 more viable builds to ESO's PVE.
That's not even touching on PVP, where you'd better believe the stamina/magicka divide adds a lot of depth to the combat. Stam/Mag builds wear different armor, use different skill combos and weapons, and in large groups, support the group in different ways. If you homogenized us down to using the same resource for combat, you promptly wind up with most players using the same BIS gear, weapons, and skills. It would deeply limit the diversity that's currently possible in PVP.
I'd like to turn the question around on you. What depth is provided by merging Stamina and Magicka to compensate for losing build diversity?
VaranisArano wrote: »
The primary depth between Stamina and Magicka is that it creates more viable builds.
If we were all homogenized, you'd have about 18+ builds in PVE: Sorc tank, Sorc DD, Sorc Healer. Dk Tank, DK DD, DK Healer. You can see where this is going. Not every class can fill every role well, but it can generally do it.
Instead, we've got close to twice that. MagSorc DD/Stam Sorc DD. MagDK Tank/Stam DK Tank. StamWarden and Stam Necro even have a little group healing capacity, but even if we leave out healers, Stamina classes add roughly 12 more viable builds to ESO's PVE.
That's not even touching on PVP, where you'd better believe the stamina/magicka divide adds a lot of depth to the combat. Stam/Mag builds wear different armor, use different skill combos and weapons, and in large groups, support the group in different ways. If you homogenized us down to using the same resource for combat, you promptly wind up with most players using the same BIS gear, weapons, and skills. It would deeply limit the diversity that's currently possible in PVP.
I'd like to turn the question around on you. What depth is provided by merging Stamina and Magicka to compensate for losing build diversity?
Because if there was zero dps loss for being a hybrid, there would be zero point in playing a pure build? The point of a hybrid is to gain access to both magicka and stamina damage or healing skills, giving you a much larger toolkit to choose from. But gaining all those extra tools should come with some sacrifice.
Homogenization takes away the best part of RPGs.. putting together synergistic, fun, functional builds. If gear has all the same stats, if everyone has the same buffs.. all your choices become meaningless when making a character.
Andre_Noir wrote: »
LOL check any stamina class in pvp. Right now they are using magicka pool for buffs/escapes and stamina for everything else at the time magicka users struggling to use even main resource due to high costs. Creation of "stamina" is the worst mistake made in this game
Yes, I agree with the merge for:
• power
• crit chance
• crit damage
• penetration
But I also firmly stand on keeping separate:
• Resource pools
• Healing done vs damage done
Healing done and critical heals need to be separate from damage done and critical damage. Why? Because Critical Healer/DD is the most broken "hybrid" role this game has and has been for far too long now. The stronger your attacks are, so are your heals? That's broke AF! Why play ANYTHING else?
Offense
vs
Defense
vs
Healing
The triangle where you can choose 1 primary, and a 2 weaker secondaries.
If you choose to have invest into defense, your offense and healing should be half of your primary. This gives everyone a weaknesses and strengths, if you don't like your weaknesses, change your build. If you are never happy with having a weakness, then idk what to tell you: maybe you're overly competitive and need to chill.
KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »atm healing scales with:
max resource pool
spell power
crit healing
atm dmg scales with:
max resource pool
spell power
crit dmg
penetration
so already 2/3 stats for healing are the same for dmg and why i want crit dmg and healing to be merged is pretty easy: there are many sets which buff ur crit DMG but not ur crit HEALING but if i just would take a set with spell power it would buff both
->specily speaking of pvp here where the other stats are better cause of that
and its pretty annoying for example that a sword will give u spell dmg which increase dmg and healing but axes only give crit dmg no healing+
Yes, I already know that. What I was saying was, it SHOULD be:
Healing to scale with:
- Max resource pool
- Bonus healing given
Light-Medium-Heavy attack and Ability Damage to scale with:
- "Power" (Spell power, weapon power)
- Crit chance + crit damage bonus
- Penetration
Notice how there's no crossover. You want to heal through a bunch of attacks like a healer? Then play a healer with restoration/healer back-bar and use sets that give bonuses to resource pools and healing bonuses. You want to maximize your damage? Then worry less about healing until you get to content that requires a different armor/weapon set and abilities.
With how healing and damage currently crossover, the healer+dps hybrid roles are broken. They can survive anything, especially if it's using heavy armor with the resource returns.
KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »
heavy armor gives u way less resources than medium / light
Resources or stat boosts? I agree with stat boosts, but resources can be made up for heavy armor crafted with dps/healer sets.
4 Heavy and 1 light Julianos with 2 more light armor focused around critical chance healing and damage --kinda broken. The only ones who don't want to say it are the ones who don't want that part of the game to change. yes, the crit from the missing the other 4 pieces that could be light armor, are made up with the bonus to health, healing taken, and resource regen from heavy attacks and when you take damage.
"Crit is king, crit is king!" Bleh. Time for a new era of diversity in builds.
KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »light armor gives u 4% mag reg and 2% reduced cost / piece thats way more than 108 resources / 4sec
btw what are u speakin about pve or pvp? in pvp i dont know 1 person julianos and in pve i know no dd using 4 heavy ?
crit in pve is atm to op but does it rly matter there? no it doesnt pvp will always use the stuff which is most op - if spell power has a larger effect than all will build for insane amount of spell power....
and in pvp crit is fine cause u have crit resistance
" but resources can be made up for heavy armor crafted with dps/healer sets."
i think its more useful to craft / use tanky sets in light / medium cause the passives are better
Yes, I already know that. What I was saying was, it SHOULD be:
Healing to scale with:
- Max resource pool
- Bonus healing given
Light-Medium-Heavy attack and Ability Damage to scale with:
- "Power" (Spell power, weapon power)
- Crit chance + crit damage bonus
- Penetration
Notice how there's no crossover. You want to heal through a bunch of attacks like a healer? Then play a healer with restoration/healer back-bar and use sets that give bonuses to resource pools and healing bonuses. You want to maximize your damage? Then worry less about healing until you get to content that requires a different armor/weapon set and abilities.
With how healing and damage currently crossover, the healer+dps hybrid roles are broken. They can survive anything, especially if it's using heavy armor with the resource returns.
I would honestly be fine with those changes, so long as there are still options for creating a reasonable blend of decent/viable damage and healing, for those areas where a dedicated healer is not guaranteed or an option (ex. Maelstrom or non-premade BG group), whether that be through "healing for % of damage done" options, or builds that can have reasonable amounts of stats (the viable versus optimal distinction here).
MashmalloMan wrote: »
Your bias is showing.. I've made Magicka builds where it's actually way easier to roll dodge, break free and block because your main skills don't take from your Stamina pool while a Stamina build needs to juggle their core combat skills with those same defensive abilities.
KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »yea so basicly if NEARLY every sources now gives u weap and spell dmg why even have 2 stats just delete them and create a single dmg stat
wouldnt change much and would make it a bit simpler
also while we are at it remove crti dmg / healing cause for crit chance its crit healing and crit dmg too so why split it with the dmg and healing - would also balance something like axes which atm only provide crit dmg and no healing while sword provide more dmg and healing
edit nearly forgot the mesion that the diffrence between mag and stam crit chance is useless to if NEARLY every source provide both of it