Console armory discussion for score-pushing trials on console

Skroogemcduk

I just would like to get some thoughts from others and the devs. The armory is an amazing change, but I’m sure I’m like most console raiders when I ask why we can’t use it to score push in trials, when pc users have a FREE add-on that allows them to do so. Honestly I’m not even mad it’s gonna be pay walled (at least the armory assistant and extra slots will be), but I don’t understand the thinking as to why devs don’t want us to score push with it , while pc users can?

MashmalloMan

The add-on you're referring to is not 1:1, it only allows you to swap gear and skills that you already have unlocked. There may be one for swapping slottable CP stars too, not sure.. but these are all things anyone can do without the add-on, it just takes extra time.

Armory on the other hand, allows you to change curse, CP, character stats, base skills, chosen morphs, and gear. The only thing it can't do, is change mundus, race and food buff. With Armory, you effectively no longer need to have alternate characters for a healer, tank, stam dps, mag dps, pvp build, etc.

1 character can do every role you need as long as you're cool with your race.. which I imagine will make the hybrid specific races of Khajiit and Dark Elf much more popular.

The way I look at it, Armory allows me to do what I've always done, which is swap characters, but now I can "swap characters" using my main instead of needing to log out and back in. I can have 1 character do every role effectively. The add-ons will still be used by PC players as a secondary purpose to swap gear and skills amongst the "character" they picked.

So like.. Oh I want to do pvp.. Armory -> pvp build -> then I'd use the add-on to pick from one of the 5 gear/skill combinations I have loaded.

So to add a limitation like this kinda makes sense because it can do so much more. Think of it this way, add-ons are free, everyone on PC has the same equal ground, same with consoles without add-ons. Armory is not entirely free. It's a quality of life feature that allows you to use 1 toon for multiple roles, allowing players to use this in leaderboard pushing would make it 100% pay to win as some people would not pay extra for multiple slots to utilize that function while others would load 5+ setups for a trial or arena to go from tank to healer to dps, whatever was needed at the time. You can't do that with add-ons.

HugoG92

Armory is a great addition to the game, but not what I was expecting to be. As a console player I was expecting something more like the dressing room that pc players have for ages. I'm not buying the crown store assistant unless they change their minds and allow us to use it in trials. There's no point to get an assistant that is pretty much useless since we will get the free station.

Dark_Lord_Kuro

HugoG92 wrote: »

Armory is a great addition to the game, but not what I was expecting to be. As a console player I was expecting something more like the dressing room that pc players have for ages. I'm not buying the crown store assistant unless they change their minds and allow us to use it in trials. There's no point to get an assistant that is pretty much useless since we will get the free station.

Just as using the bank is free
Or using a merchant

Vaoh

Q: Why can we swap attributes, werewolf/vampire, morphs, but not Mundus Stone?
A: People will not buy Mundus Stones for their home from the Crown Store.

Q: Why can we not use the Armory in score pushing content?
A: It would officially make ESO a P2W game, since you’d need the $40 assistant and many $15 loadout slots to be fully optimized for a score run.

ajkb78

Vaoh wrote: »

Q: Why can we swap attributes, werewolf/vampire, morphs, but not Mundus Stone?
A: People will not buy Mundus Stones for their home from the Crown Store.

Q: Why can we not use the Armory in score pushing content?
A: It would officially make ESO a P2W game, since you’d need the $40 assistant and many $15 loadout slots to be fully optimized for a score run.

With only a very small amount of rework it would be entirely free of p2w. Make it so that 2 slots can be accessed in trials, and make those slots accessible via quickslot (but you can't add or remove armoury setups to the quickslot while in a trial arena dungeon or Cyrodiil, and you can only have a maximum of 2 slotted). That way everyone has access to 2 slots in content and is therefore oI'dn a level playing field. I would be far more likely to spend crowns on this if it was usable in content. The assistant would still be useful for convenience as it still offers a way to *change* builds outside housing.

Xebov

Skroogemcduk wrote: »

I just would like to get some thoughts from others and the devs. The armory is an amazing change, but I’m sure I’m like most console raiders when I ask why we can’t use it to score push in trials, when pc users have a FREE add-on that allows them to do so. Honestly I’m not even mad it’s gonna be pay walled (at least the armory assistant and extra slots will be), but I don’t understand the thinking as to why devs don’t want us to score push with it , while pc users can?

Addons only allow you to switch things around that you normally can. This would be CP (if you pay the gold), CP slotables, gear and skills. You just get a neat interface for it.
The armory allows you to swap attributes and morphs which currently requires a shrine and the curse which currently cannot simply be swapped around. They also want to add mundus later on.
With this the Armory is much more powerfull and allows you to completely change the character.

jaws343

I mentioned it elsewhere. But I doubt they will allow this function in places where scores and completion of content is impacted. They nerfed crit damage because they did not want us doing as much damage as we are. Allowing this would just be allowing more damage creep as players will be optimizing their entire kit on the fly for each encounter. While this is available through mods on PC, it is clearly not something they want to support in game.

Jodynn

From my point of view, it makes sense to use armory as long as you aren't in combat; I'm a little confounded it doesn't work that way.

Jodynn

Still waiting for them to figure out class changing with it; I am completely happy with magDK mind you, but it's nice to switch it up occasionally and I've never been a fan of multiple characters in ANY game.

AlnilamE

Vaoh wrote: »

Q: Why can we swap attributes, werewolf/vampire, morphs, but not Mundus Stone?
A: People will not buy Mundus Stones for their home from the Crown Store.

I'll have to find the quote, but I believe they tried to include mundus stones, but it was too buggy, so they had to drop it.

Q: Why can we not use the Armory in score pushing content?
A: It would officially make ESO a P2W game, since you’d need the $40 assistant and many $15 loadout slots to be fully optimized for a score run.

Pretty much. Can you imagine being told you can't join a trial unless you spend $100.00? This way everyone is on the same level.

ajkb78 wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

Q: Why can we swap attributes, werewolf/vampire, morphs, but not Mundus Stone?
A: People will not buy Mundus Stones for their home from the Crown Store.

Q: Why can we not use the Armory in score pushing content?
A: It would officially make ESO a P2W game, since you’d need the $40 assistant and many $15 loadout slots to be fully optimized for a score run.

With only a very small amount of rework it would be entirely free of p2w. Make it so that 2 slots can be accessed in trials, and make those slots accessible via quickslot (but you can't add or remove armoury setups to the quickslot while in a trial arena dungeon or Cyrodiil, and you can only have a maximum of 2 slotted). That way everyone has access to 2 slots in content and is therefore oI'dn a level playing field. I would be far more likely to spend crowns on this if it was usable in content. The assistant would still be useful for convenience as it still offers a way to *change* builds outside housing.

That's not a "small amount of rework", that's at least a couple of different systems that would have to be modified, including quickslots, which don't have a limitation of how many of an item type you can slot at the same time.

But they could put an armory table in the home bases in Cyrodiil, I think.

Jodynn

AlnilamE wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

Q: Why can we swap attributes, werewolf/vampire, morphs, but not Mundus Stone?
A: People will not buy Mundus Stones for their home from the Crown Store.

I'll have to find the quote, but I believe they tried to include mundus stones, but it was too buggy, so they had to drop it.

Q: Why can we not use the Armory in score pushing content?
A: It would officially make ESO a P2W game, since you’d need the $40 assistant and many $15 loadout slots to be fully optimized for a score run.

Pretty much. Can you imagine being told you can't join a trial unless you spend $100.00? This way everyone is on the same level.

ajkb78 wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

Q: Why can we swap attributes, werewolf/vampire, morphs, but not Mundus Stone?
A: People will not buy Mundus Stones for their home from the Crown Store.

Q: Why can we not use the Armory in score pushing content?
A: It would officially make ESO a P2W game, since you’d need the $40 assistant and many $15 loadout slots to be fully optimized for a score run.

With only a very small amount of rework it would be entirely free of p2w. Make it so that 2 slots can be accessed in trials, and make those slots accessible via quickslot (but you can't add or remove armoury setups to the quickslot while in a trial arena dungeon or Cyrodiil, and you can only have a maximum of 2 slotted). That way everyone has access to 2 slots in content and is therefore oI'dn a level playing field. I would be far more likely to spend crowns on this if it was usable in content. The assistant would still be useful for convenience as it still offers a way to *change* builds outside housing.

That's not a "small amount of rework", that's at least a couple of different systems that would have to be modified, including quickslots, which don't have a limitation of how many of an item type you can slot at the same time.

But they could put an armory table in the home bases in Cyrodiil, I think.

Mundus stones feel more like because it's a 5k crown item for a housing item

MashmalloMan

Jodynn wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

Q: Why can we swap attributes, werewolf/vampire, morphs, but not Mundus Stone?
A: People will not buy Mundus Stones for their home from the Crown Store.

I'll have to find the quote, but I believe they tried to include mundus stones, but it was too buggy, so they had to drop it.

Q: Why can we not use the Armory in score pushing content?
A: It would officially make ESO a P2W game, since you’d need the $40 assistant and many $15 loadout slots to be fully optimized for a score run.

Pretty much. Can you imagine being told you can't join a trial unless you spend $100.00? This way everyone is on the same level.

ajkb78 wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

Q: Why can we swap attributes, werewolf/vampire, morphs, but not Mundus Stone?
A: People will not buy Mundus Stones for their home from the Crown Store.

Q: Why can we not use the Armory in score pushing content?
A: It would officially make ESO a P2W game, since you’d need the $40 assistant and many $15 loadout slots to be fully optimized for a score run.

With only a very small amount of rework it would be entirely free of p2w. Make it so that 2 slots can be accessed in trials, and make those slots accessible via quickslot (but you can't add or remove armoury setups to the quickslot while in a trial arena dungeon or Cyrodiil, and you can only have a maximum of 2 slotted). That way everyone has access to 2 slots in content and is therefore oI'dn a level playing field. I would be far more likely to spend crowns on this if it was usable in content. The assistant would still be useful for convenience as it still offers a way to *change* builds outside housing.

That's not a "small amount of rework", that's at least a couple of different systems that would have to be modified, including quickslots, which don't have a limitation of how many of an item type you can slot at the same time.

But they could put an armory table in the home bases in Cyrodiil, I think.

Mundus stones feel more like because it's a 5k crown item for a housing item

Doesn't make any sense.. Most people have access to a guild hall that has every Mundus, every crafting station, dummies, literally everything you need. It's far less nefarious than that and it most likely purely a technical limitation. Not to mention, most Mundus stones can be found for free in the world next to wayshrines.

Just look at how Twice Born Star is handled for further proof. The set needs to be worn on the body because as soon as you lose the effect of your second mundus stone, for even a split second, you need to re-equip the stone all over again. There is nothing coded to remember what stone you had.

The day that issue is resolved with Twice Born Star, is the day the Armory will include mundus stone choice.

I'm not a coder, but there is no reason they would allow you to change curse (also a crown store purchaseable), morphs and stats (gold sinks = time spent collecting gold = time spent playing the game = more chances you spend real money..) but not Mundus just because they want you to buy Mundus stones from the crown store.

The only aspect they want you to spend money on, is for extra slots and the ease of access with an NPC. They're so confident that they can make money in the legit way, that they give you the station for free and disable it in competitive content where they know whales would pay 100s of dollars to get multiple roles setup so they can push leaderboards. It would be far more nefarious to enable it in competitive content than simply cutting out Mundus stones lol.

If they really wanted to take our money, they would make this feature 100% needed, instead of completely optional.

MashmalloMan

ajkb78 wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

Q: Why can we swap attributes, werewolf/vampire, morphs, but not Mundus Stone?
A: People will not buy Mundus Stones for their home from the Crown Store.

Q: Why can we not use the Armory in score pushing content?
A: It would officially make ESO a P2W game, since you’d need the $40 assistant and many $15 loadout slots to be fully optimized for a score run.

With only a very small amount of rework it would be entirely free of p2w. Make it so that 2 slots can be accessed in trials, and make those slots accessible via quickslot (but you can't add or remove armoury setups to the quickslot while in a trial arena dungeon or Cyrodiil, and you can only have a maximum of 2 slotted). That way everyone has access to 2 slots in content and is therefore oI'dn a level playing field. I would be far more likely to spend crowns on this if it was usable in content. The assistant would still be useful for convenience as it still offers a way to *change* builds outside housing.

Maybe they don't like the idea of directily supporting a system in which you feel the need to swap entire roles/setups just to complete content effectively. Sure add-ons do something similar, but it's not a requirement to complete harder content, by introducing a system in the base game where you "CAN" swap everything about your build with 1 button press, you support ideals where harder trial groups EXPECT you to play that way.

It would create a feeling of tedium that every end game score pushing group would adopt.

I believe they just want the system to be a quality of life feature, rather than a competitive edge. As I theorized in my original comment, it's just there so you can use 1 toon for every role instead of pushing players to create alt characters to have the same effect. Since this is a role playing game, a lot of people like the idea of their 1 character doing everything, including achievements, dps, tanking, etc and this makes that possible.

thadjarvis

The armory works in trials and dungeons on the PTS right now.

Dressing room also still works (some on forums have thought it wont work anymore).

Jodynn

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Jodynn wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

Q: Why can we swap attributes, werewolf/vampire, morphs, but not Mundus Stone?
A: People will not buy Mundus Stones for their home from the Crown Store.

I'll have to find the quote, but I believe they tried to include mundus stones, but it was too buggy, so they had to drop it.

Q: Why can we not use the Armory in score pushing content?
A: It would officially make ESO a P2W game, since you’d need the $40 assistant and many $15 loadout slots to be fully optimized for a score run.

Pretty much. Can you imagine being told you can't join a trial unless you spend $100.00? This way everyone is on the same level.

ajkb78 wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

Q: Why can we swap attributes, werewolf/vampire, morphs, but not Mundus Stone?
A: People will not buy Mundus Stones for their home from the Crown Store.

Q: Why can we not use the Armory in score pushing content?
A: It would officially make ESO a P2W game, since you’d need the $40 assistant and many $15 loadout slots to be fully optimized for a score run.

With only a very small amount of rework it would be entirely free of p2w. Make it so that 2 slots can be accessed in trials, and make those slots accessible via quickslot (but you can't add or remove armoury setups to the quickslot while in a trial arena dungeon or Cyrodiil, and you can only have a maximum of 2 slotted). That way everyone has access to 2 slots in content and is therefore oI'dn a level playing field. I would be far more likely to spend crowns on this if it was usable in content. The assistant would still be useful for convenience as it still offers a way to *change* builds outside housing.

That's not a "small amount of rework", that's at least a couple of different systems that would have to be modified, including quickslots, which don't have a limitation of how many of an item type you can slot at the same time.

But they could put an armory table in the home bases in Cyrodiil, I think.

Mundus stones feel more like because it's a 5k crown item for a housing item

Doesn't make any sense.. Most people have access to a guild hall that has every Mundus, every crafting station, dummies, literally everything you need. It's far less nefarious than that and it most likely purely a technical limitation. Not to mention, most Mundus stones can be found for free in the world next to wayshrines.

Just look at how Twice Born Star is handled for further proof. The set needs to be worn on the body because as soon as you lose the effect of your second mundus stone, for even a split second, you need to re-equip the stone all over again. There is nothing coded to remember what stone you had.

The day that issue is resolved with Twice Born Star, is the day the Armory will include mundus stone choice.

I'm not a coder, but there is no reason they would allow you to change curse (also a crown store purchaseable), morphs and stats (gold sinks = time spent collecting gold = time spent playing the game = more chances you spend real money..) but not Mundus just because they want you to buy Mundus stones from the crown store.

The only aspect they want you to spend money on, is for extra slots and the ease of access with an NPC. They're so confident that they can make money in the legit way, that they give you the station for free and disable it in competitive content where they know whales would pay 100s of dollars to get multiple roles setup so they can push leaderboards. It would be far more nefarious to enable it in competitive content than simply cutting out Mundus stones lol.

If they really wanted to take our money, they would make this feature 100% needed, instead of completely optional.

I am a coder and I know what it's like to work in a terrible workspace, from their talks I assume that the base was that.
So I can imagine WHY they couldn't do it from a technical perspective easily, could be any number of facets that someone has left behind with legacy code or files. Hopefully they'll come around and prove my cynicism wrong

Jodynn

thadjarvis wrote: »

The armory works in trials and dungeons on the PTS right now.

Dressing room also still works (some on forums have thought it wont work anymore).

This is great news.

Xebov

thadjarvis wrote: »

The armory works in trials and dungeons on the PTS right now.

As far as i tested it (there are some buggy pieces) it works if it hasnt started. Which means as long as everyone is still in the starting area, for Trials this would be the entry room.

thadjarvis

Xebov wrote: »

thadjarvis wrote: »

The armory works in trials and dungeons on the PTS right now.

As far as i tested it (there are some buggy pieces) it works if it hasnt started. Which means as long as everyone is still in the starting area, for Trials this would be the entry room.

I've seen video of it working after the trial timer starts and then again after a wipe. In both dungeon and trial. The only time it doesn't seem to work is during combat (pve). Basically there's no indication it follows a ruleset any different from the banker or merchant. It makes sense that they would use the code from those as a baseline. That's the null to prove otherwise.

MashmalloMan

thadjarvis wrote: »

Xebov wrote: »

thadjarvis wrote: »

The armory works in trials and dungeons on the PTS right now.

As far as i tested it (there are some buggy pieces) it works if it hasnt started. Which means as long as everyone is still in the starting area, for Trials this would be the entry room.

I've seen video of it working after the trial timer starts and then again after a wipe. In both dungeon and trial. The only time it doesn't seem to work is during combat (pve). Basically there's no indication it follows a ruleset any different from the banker or merchant. It makes sense that they would use the code from those as a baseline. That's the null to prove otherwise.

Interesting, the stream where they talked about it suggested otherwise. Guess we'll see if that was a miscomunication or a bug on the PTS in the coming weeks.

Xebov

thadjarvis wrote: »

Xebov wrote: »

thadjarvis wrote: »

The armory works in trials and dungeons on the PTS right now.

As far as i tested it (there are some buggy pieces) it works if it hasnt started. Which means as long as everyone is still in the starting area, for Trials this would be the entry room.

I've seen video of it working after the trial timer starts and then again after a wipe. In both dungeon and trial. The only time it doesn't seem to work is during combat (pve). Basically there's no indication it follows a ruleset any different from the banker or merchant. It makes sense that they would use the code from those as a baseline. That's the null to prove otherwise.

Its still somewhat buggy so maybe its not fully working as intended yet, iam not sure.

WillyOneBlood

Skroogemcduk wrote: »

I just would like to get some thoughts from others and the devs. The armory is an amazing change, but I’m sure I’m like most console raiders when I ask why we can’t use it to score push in trials, when pc users have a FREE add-on that allows them to do so. Honestly I’m not even mad it’s gonna be pay walled (at least the armory assistant and extra slots will be), but I don’t understand the thinking as to why devs don’t want us to score push with it , while pc users can?

If you're changing your entire build in a trial then you're clearly doing something wrong. Changing the odd skill or set is no big deal and takes 10 seconds but changing your whole build and morphs means you're not set up properly for the trial to begin with.

The only good reason for the armour system is to quickly change your build from PvE to PvP or vice versa or if you play a healer and want to switch up to a tank or DD character for fun and switch up the game for a bit.