Wandering WB too easy

Urvoth

The wandering world bosses are a great concept and it's really cool that ZOS would try a new feature like this, but they're just way too easy on pts right now. For a "trial-level" boss, they're really easy and just having a tank there will basically make them duo-able. It would be nice to have them be a bit more of a challenge that people actually need to group for.

Maitsukas

Urvoth wrote: »

The wandering world bosses are a great concept and it's really cool that ZOS would try a new feature like this, but they're just way too easy on pts right now. For a "trial-level" boss, they're really easy and just having a tank there will basically make them duo-able. It would be nice to have them be a bit more of a challenge that people actually need to group for.

Most of the bosses are more difficult during final PTS versions before an update goes live, so expect it to be more difficult during 7.2.3 or 7.2.4

Urvoth

Maitsukas wrote: »

Urvoth wrote: »

The wandering world bosses are a great concept and it's really cool that ZOS would try a new feature like this, but they're just way too easy on pts right now. For a "trial-level" boss, they're really easy and just having a tank there will basically make them duo-able. It would be nice to have them be a bit more of a challenge that people actually need to group for.

Most of the bosses are more difficult during final PTS versions before an update goes live, so expect it to be more difficult during 7.2.3 or 7.2.4

Oh nice, that'll be good to see then.

majulook

Probably done on purpose. if they made them more with difficulty in killing them, they would need to be made less so after a few months. When the Zone becomes sparsely populated.

They should have algorithms by now on difficulty levels on players against Bosses. So just make them scale to the amount of players with in x radius. Don't Dolmens drop more enemies depending on the amount of players at it?

Wolf_Eye

I wasn't able to find a wandering boss today when I got the chance to play. I had a question: do they instantly aggro or only aggro when you attack them?

Vevvev

Wolf_Eye wrote: »

I wasn't able to find a wandering boss today when I got the chance to play. I had a question: do they instantly aggro or only aggro when you attack them?

If they're like the wandering world bosses of the Imperial City they'll attack you when you get in their aggro range.

SirAndy

majulook wrote: »

Probably done on purpose. if they made them more with difficulty in killing them, they would need to be made less so after a few months. When the Zone becomes sparsely populated.

^^^ this

Once the honeymoon wears off and the zone becomes just another place to dig up treasure maps, any overland boss that requires large groups of players would become completely useless because everyone would just avoid them.

The real solution would be to scale them according to the number of players that are engaged in combat.
Make them hard but solo-able and scale them up from there.

ArzyeL

Wolf_Eye wrote: »

I wasn't able to find a wandering boss today when I got the chance to play. I had a question: do they instantly aggro or only aggro when you attack them?

The one i found was pretty passive until i attacked it.

Griefclaw

I mean you don't want to just make them scale to whoever is in the area, just defeats the purpose in having a difficult enemy. The aim is to bring people together to kill them. So taking into account that after the a while when less people are in the zone it will be harder to get people together to kill it, they should focus on creating value in killing it instead of just scaling it to the 1 dude who wants to kill it that's in the area.

This can be done in multiple ways, tieing an antiquity lead drop to it, achievements (which i'm sure there is already), loot specific drops to them, good value drops, even just making it a fun fight etc.

Simply making it easier (scaling it to available players) isn't the answer though.

Tommy_The_Gun

Tbh. If I had to chose, I would rather have bosses that are too easy than the ones that are too hard & have um.... "questionable" mechanics, shall we say...

Sure, making them slightly harder and "adequate" is best solution - but that is very challenging and chances are we will end up with bosses that are either too easy or too hard.

Griefclaw

Yeah, I mean if you want to go to the extremes on each side you'd take easy. But I personally don't play an MMO for the easiness of it, mose well play a single player game at that point.

It's not challenging to keep the difficulty at whatever it is, and simply provide reasons to kill it, so 7 months down the line people are still coming back, but I agree with you in that ZOS will most likely just be lazy and make them either too easy or too hard, with 0 reason to come back and kill it after the first couple times or 1 month of being in the zone.

ApoAlaia

Dragons still require a large-ish bunch of uncoordinated people or at least a group of 4 coordinated people to take down without being an actual slog of a confrontation.

Yet even the N.Elsweyr ones - which are rather... hmmm... inconvenient if you will - are still being engaged.

I reckon if they 'make them into a daily', put something at least moderately enticing in their leveled lists (antiquity leads, 'rare' alchemy mats, furniture plans...) and daily chest rewards even after the honeymoon period is over at least during prime time they will still be 'hunted' even if they too require a bit more than a couple of passers-by to take down.

Cireous

Thought I would share a screenshot of one of these fiery brutes incase anyone is curious as to what they might look like. As you can see, Bastian and I are standing uncomfortably close and he is still just wandering by as if we weren't there. He almost seemed like a passive mob. You had to get right up near his feet for him to aggro. Suffice it to say, he made quick work of us. I did manage to wrangle up another player on the map and he and I and our companions were able to eventually take him down. I spent nearly the entire time healing (I am one of those peculiar people who builds themselves out to heal in the Overland, if only these nerfed, supporty gearsets would put-out when ungrouped, but I digress). It was a fun experience and I'm super happy these were added to the zone. I'm not sure how I feel about the difficulty. In the moment, it felt great to take him down with just one other player, and this should work out well when the zone is all but dead, but on the first month or so after launch, I bet it won't be terribly fun trying to get a kill on these guys. I did get an antiquity lead from him, some kind of goblet, but trying to dig it up was a bust, every mound would disappear the moment I clicked on them. Seems they are bugged and not working. The World Boss next to this guy was also bugged and unkillable. Looks like they've got some work to do before launch

ajkb78

SirAndy wrote: »

majulook wrote: »

Probably done on purpose. if they made them more with difficulty in killing them, they would need to be made less so after a few months. When the Zone becomes sparsely populated.

^^^ this

Once the honeymoon wears off and the zone becomes just another place to dig up treasure maps, any overland boss that requires large groups of players would become completely useless because everyone would just avoid them.

The real solution would be to scale them according to the number of players that are engaged in combat.
Make them hard but solo-able and scale them up from there.

Elsweyr dragons aren't really soloable (at least not routinely by average players) but people still group up to farm them in zones that are 2 years old now.

ZOS_Finn

Great feedback folks, just a couple questions...

1. How many players were engaging the executioners?
2. Was any particular executioner easier than any others?
3. How long did the fight take?

Aliyavana

Can we have Female Havrocrels? We need representation! unless all havrocrels are males in form

CaffeinatedMayhem

Aliyavana wrote: »

Can we have Female Havrocrels? We need representation! unless all havrocrels are males in form

I agree with more female daedra, but I have a feeling Mehrunes Dagon isn't into equality...

CaffeinatedMayhem

On Topic: I tried solo tanking axe-dragging overland boss. His fire DoT takes me down in the same time as the ones in vRG. No healer or special gear, just taunted to see what would happen. So, I wouldn't say they are "too easy" unless you're in a group.

CyberOnEso

As a suggestion, I would think that giving them the prime meteor attack from Rockgrove would be interesting as this would add one mechanic that needs to be understood and completed. It doesn't need to require anywhere near the DPS to kill as in Rockgrove, obviously, but just to add a mechanic which has the possibility of killing people if no one attacks it.

I really don't think you need to be scared of adding world bosses that are too hard, in my opinion, it would provide a more interesting and memorable experience if they were somewhat of a challenge to kill, and killing them was an actual achievement.

CyberOnEso

ZOS_Finn wrote: »

How many players were engaging the executioners? We had around 5 or 6 people killing them.
Was any particular executioner easier than any others?
Not that I noticed, they seemed rather similar. Though I think I only saw 2.
How long did the fight take? Around 60 seconds, I think they have around 10 million health. This is as much as a dungeon boss, which considering you can have quite a few people on them at a time they will just melt. I feel like on live they will be swarmed die in 10 seconds and the challenge will be finding them before they are killed

I do really like the concept of these bosses, however, it makes the zone feel different which is important.

I feel that an interesting addition for a future zone would be a boss that spawns on a much longer timer, and isn't always up, which would require a group of players to come together to fight it when it spawns.
You could think of it like Volendrung but for an overland map, a map wide event, as in something that rarely spawns but when it does people rush to fight it creating a unique experience that doesn't get old too quickly due to its rarity.

I feel incursions can become tedious and repetitive too quickly for 2 main reasons, 1) They are just not a challenge for a group of players of any skill level. 2) They are always active so lose any novelty or intrigue. There is no point going to them as the next will be up 20 seconds later.

By creating an event that is rarer but harder you would create a drive for players to want to go fight it, it would become an actual event that has meaning behind it. The same number of people would be able to complete it, but it would be a more memorable experience for those that partook in it.

CaffeinatedMayhem

CyberOnEso wrote: »

As a suggestion, I would think that giving them the prime meteor attack from Rockgrove would be interesting as this would add one mechanic that needs to be understood and completed. It doesn't need to require anywhere near the DPS to kill as in Rockgrove, obviously, but just to add a mechanic which has the possibility of killing people if no one attacks it.

I really don't think you need to be scared of adding world bosses that are too hard, in my opinion, it would provide a more interesting and memorable experience if they were somewhat of a challenge to kill, and killing them was an actual achievement.

The problem with that is... the VAST majority of the game population does NOT understand mechanics at all. Gold healthbar/invulnerable? People do NOT understand this and keep wailing away on bosses that cannot be harmed, while ignoring adds to kill or other mechanics. I've rarely seen people use the Fish Barrels on Toad-Tongue camp, and they seem shocked when I tell them to focus the boss and not the durzog's. A mechanic like Prime Meteor in overland would just give complaints from a MAJORITY of players. Players who want difficult content are a MINORITY in ESO. It may not seem like it in your guilds/friends, but that is far from the entire game. And years have proven that a majority of players never get into advanced mechanics.

EDIT: More examples - I have taught people how to "see" interrupt and heavy attack line telegraphs SOO MUCH. Even among people who run dungeons and trials! Lots of people who keep slogging away at the ice boss in MA, and never get the idea that it's a SLOW burn. I've met far more people who don't use guides for anything, than people who think to google when they have trouble with something.

Overland is for EVERYONE, not just people who understand mechanics. Farmers, thieves, low level players in mismatched white armor. There's a limit to what can be done. Ever had to kill a dragon with 8 people and a group total of 40k DPS? I have, it was a PAIN

CP5

CaffeinatedMayhem wrote: »

CyberOnEso wrote: »

As a suggestion, I would think that giving them the prime meteor attack from Rockgrove would be interesting as this would add one mechanic that needs to be understood and completed. It doesn't need to require anywhere near the DPS to kill as in Rockgrove, obviously, but just to add a mechanic which has the possibility of killing people if no one attacks it.

I really don't think you need to be scared of adding world bosses that are too hard, in my opinion, it would provide a more interesting and memorable experience if they were somewhat of a challenge to kill, and killing them was an actual achievement.

The problem with that is... the VAST majority of the game population does NOT understand mechanics at all. Gold healthbar/invulnerable? People do NOT understand this and keep wailing away on bosses that cannot be harmed, while ignoring adds to kill or other mechanics. I've rarely seen people use the Fish Barrels on Toad-Tongue camp, and they seem shocked when I tell them to focus the boss and not the durzog's. A mechanic like Prime Meteor in overland would just give complaints from a MAJORITY of players. Players who want difficult content are a MINORITY in ESO. It may not seem like it in your guilds/friends, but that is far from the entire game. And years have proven that a majority of players never get into advanced mechanics.

EDIT: More examples - I have taught people how to "see" interrupt and heavy attack line telegraphs SOO MUCH. Even among people who run dungeons and trials! Lots of people who keep slogging away at the ice boss in MA, and never get the idea that it's a SLOW burn. I've met far more people who don't use guides for anything, than people who think to google when they have trouble with something.

Overland is for EVERYONE, not just people who understand mechanics. Farmers, thieves, low level players in mismatched white armor. There's a limit to what can be done. Ever had to kill a dragon with 8 people and a group total of 40k DPS? I have, it was a PAIN

Just wanted to chime in and say, if overland doesn't give chances for people to learn these things, where are they supposed to?

CaffeinatedMayhem

CP5 wrote: »

Just wanted to chime in and say, if overland doesn't give chances for people to learn these things, where are they supposed to?

It's not that there aren't CHANCES, it's that people DO NOT CHOOSE TO LEARN.

Lets take the case of Tumma-Mazath in Bloodrun cave. a Delve boss, and one anyone doing dailies will see on a regular basis. I still frequently see players ignoring the skeleton adds while firing MULTIPLE ultimates into the boss as in - Toxic Barrage, recharge ulti, Toxic Barrage again. 6 months after release. Honestly, I don't think I've ever witnessed another player killing the adds. People just count on whatever little damage gets through "invulnerability" and go with it. I'm not joking, and I run 5 sets of Leyawiin dailies every day. If people aren't learning in overland, they're not going to learn.

phaneub17_ESO

Can you change them to scale with the number of players attacking it? 4 players minimum for base health, every 2 additional players grant it 5% increased max health. So 5-6 players gives it 5% more health, 7-8 is 10%, 9-10 15%, etc.

CyberOnEso

CaffeinatedMayhem wrote: »

Overland is for EVERYONE, not just people who understand mechanics. Farmers, thieves, low level players in mismatched white armor. There's a limit to what can be done. Ever had to kill a dragon with 8 people and a group total of 40k DPS? I have, it was a PAIN

I agree overland should be for everyone, however, I think there should be an opportunity for overland to teach players something. I don't think it's fair to the people in mismatched white armor that CP 500 players are going to kill that boss in 30 seconds, and they are going to not get any sense of achievement or any sense of anything. All they will see is another mob being destroyed by high-level elitists.

The player in mismatched gear who doesn't know how to slot skills will never kill it alone. So I don't see who the content is trying to engage. It is a world boss, it is going to be attacked by many players and if the boss has some challenge in killing it then maybe that player in mismatched white gear will learn a mechanic, and that's great. As it is now, the boss will be killed so quickly and so easily by a swarm of players that no one will learn anything, and no one will have any sense of achievement.

I do think there should be some scaling of the bosses based on the number of players in the zone or similar, as I do understand the frustrations that may occur in 2 years when there are fewer people in the zone. But if the world bosses hit live in the current state they will just be another boss that will be run over and die in 30 seconds without anyone feeling anything.

Urvoth

ZOS_Finn wrote: »

Great feedback folks, just a couple questions...

1. How many players were engaging the executioners?
2. Was any particular executioner easier than any others?
3. How long did the fight take?

I've killed them with as few as 2-3 players

Didn't notice any difference between the executioners

The fight was probably around 3 minutes or so

Thanks for adding a cool and special feature like this to the zone, it definitely helps to add a unique and dangerous atmosphere to the Deadlands that other zones don't have.

Red_Feather

1. Please increase their awareness range to something high like 20m!
2. Is it possible that for every few players within 30m the boss gets a stacking buff that makes it more deadly?
3. Thank for these roaming bosses, as they are a really cool addition!

keto3000

SirAndy wrote: »

majulook wrote: »

Probably done on purpose. if they made them more with difficulty in killing them, they would need to be made less so after a few months. When the Zone becomes sparsely populated.

^^^ this

Once the honeymoon wears off and the zone becomes just another place to dig up treasure maps, any overland boss that requires large groups of players would become completely useless because everyone would just avoid them.

The real solution would be to scale them according to the number of players that are engaged in combat.
Make them hard but solo-able and scale them up from there.

Wonder if it is possible to have these types of 'wander-bosses' spawn when there are population of players near area. Maybe have them occasionally even enter a town! (lmao)

marius_buys

CaffeinatedMayhem wrote: »

CyberOnEso wrote: »

As a suggestion, I would think that giving them the prime meteor attack from Rockgrove would be interesting as this would add one mechanic that needs to be understood and completed. It doesn't need to require anywhere near the DPS to kill as in Rockgrove, obviously, but just to add a mechanic which has the possibility of killing people if no one attacks it.

I really don't think you need to be scared of adding world bosses that are too hard, in my opinion, it would provide a more interesting and memorable experience if they were somewhat of a challenge to kill, and killing them was an actual achievement.

The problem with that is... the VAST majority of the game population does NOT understand mechanics at all. Gold healthbar/invulnerable? People do NOT understand this and keep wailing away on bosses that cannot be harmed, while ignoring adds to kill or other mechanics. I've rarely seen people use the Fish Barrels on Toad-Tongue camp, and they seem shocked when I tell them to focus the boss and not the durzog's. A mechanic like Prime Meteor in overland would just give complaints from a MAJORITY of players. Players who want difficult content are a MINORITY in ESO. It may not seem like it in your guilds/friends, but that is far from the entire game. And years have proven that a majority of players never get into advanced mechanics.

EDIT: More examples - I have taught people how to "see" interrupt and heavy attack line telegraphs SOO MUCH. Even among people who run dungeons and trials! Lots of people who keep slogging away at the ice boss in MA, and never get the idea that it's a SLOW burn. I've met far more people who don't use guides for anything, than people who think to google when they have trouble with something.

Overland is for EVERYONE, not just people who understand mechanics. Farmers, thieves, low level players in mismatched white armor. There's a limit to what can be done. Ever had to kill a dragon with 8 people and a group total of 40k DPS? I have, it was a PAIN

I absolutely agree, Overland is for everyone especially the new, inexperienced, ungeared players.
Elite players shouldn't even be commenting about this or stroking their ego about how easy Overland is, go do a Vet HM trial and complain about that. End Game Content for End Game Players, yes sure scale the boss up when more players engage, yes sure have 1 boss that can only be done by groups but lets avoid the Elsweyr situation where players do not do boss dailies because the dragons are near impossible for new players; not engaged by vet players and just standing alone and forlorn in the Overworld as living statues to lack of foresight into when the zone hype dies down and moves on to something new.

Paha_Vaatturi

ZOS_Finn wrote: »

Great feedback folks, just a couple questions...

1. How many players were engaging the executioners?
2. Was any particular executioner easier than any others?
3. How long did the fight take?

As a data engineer, I am surprised you can’t see this from the data produced by the players; especially the steps 1 and 3.

Elsonso

Paha_Vaatturi wrote: »

ZOS_Finn wrote: »

Great feedback folks, just a couple questions...

1. How many players were engaging the executioners?
2. Was any particular executioner easier than any others?
3. How long did the fight take?

As a data engineer, I am surprised you can’t see this from the data produced by the players; especially the steps 1 and 3.

Maybe they can, and the data does not match what they are hearing in the forum.

CaffeinatedMayhem wrote: »

On Topic: I tried solo tanking axe-dragging overland boss. His fire DoT takes me down in the same time as the ones in vRG. No healer or special gear, just taunted to see what would happen. So, I wouldn't say they are "too easy" unless you're in a group.

No, I don't think they will be too easy for the overwhelming majority of players. Very high DPS and the ability to take damage and self heal seems to be the ticket if you want to solo these. It is pretty easy to become a puddle of goo.