How much DPS is enough for...

SirAndy

joseayalac wrote: »

The standard for DPS parsing is the 21M dummy since it gives buffs and all. Thats the point of comparison when people talk about their DPS.

That's for organized groups.
If you are running pug dungeons, your raid parse is worth less than the digital paper it is written on.

In fact, a true solo(!) parse on the 3mil dummy is probably a much better measuring stick for how well you will do in a pug dungeon.

Kusto

Dps number is not the only reason why kicks happen. It could also be: not knowing mechs, positioning, pulling, stunning adds, build (sword and board, crazy high hp, low cp etc).
Also consider the dps difference between practice dummy and actual content. PC players have addons and logs to see real time dps in content and that can vary greatly, depending on fight and player capability. For example, I recently did vet Dread Cellar where our tank started complaining about low dps during 1st boss fight and bailed. Our group dps on every trash pull before boss was 200k+ and on boss 70k. We both parse 100k on dummy.
Dps can also vary alot with different groups on same fights. It depends on buffs and tank skill level aswell. Sometimes group dps can be great and everything dies quick but someone can still be kicked because healer was doing 50% of the dps for example.

Dont let getting kicked put you down. Watch some guides, practice more and get back out there.

Ezhh

kypranb14_ESO wrote: »

Front Bar: DPS
- Purifying Light every 6s with priority over following abilities.
- Solar Barrage every 10s.
- Blazing Spear every 10s.
- Puncturing Sweep every second none of the previous abilities need to be casted on.
- Inner Light (Slotted for simplified/cheap Major Prophecy.)

Backbar: Healing
- Illustrious Spring every 10s unless it needs to be repositioned.
- Energy Orb
- Ritual of Rebirth
- Restoring Focus (I like the stamina restore, and I don't need anymore magicka restore.)
- Extended Ritual

If you are queueing as a DD you are quite possibly being kicked because you are being seen with a resto and healing skills. The moment people see a resto on a DD in a dungeon they probably aren't going to take the time to check how much dps you are actually doing. They will just see a resto and assume you don't have a clue. If the group has a real healer (not as rare as some people like to make out from my experience) then it's quite possibly going to annoy them as well, because it immediately implies you do not trust them to do their job. Even if you don't actively heal, the moment that resto is seen it will put doubts in people's minds, and that can be all it takes.

kypranb14_ESO

Ezhh wrote: »

kypranb14_ESO wrote: »

Front Bar: DPS
- Purifying Light every 6s with priority over following abilities.
- Solar Barrage every 10s.
- Blazing Spear every 10s.
- Puncturing Sweep every second none of the previous abilities need to be casted on.
- Inner Light (Slotted for simplified/cheap Major Prophecy.)

Backbar: Healing
- Illustrious Spring every 10s unless it needs to be repositioned.
- Energy Orb
- Ritual of Rebirth
- Restoring Focus (I like the stamina restore, and I don't need anymore magicka restore.)
- Extended Ritual

If you are queueing as a DD you are quite possibly being kicked because you are being seen with a resto and healing skills. The moment people see a resto on a DD in a dungeon they probably aren't going to take the time to check how much dps you are actually doing. They will just see a resto and assume you don't have a clue. If the group has a real healer (not as rare as some people like to make out from my experience) then it's quite possibly going to annoy them as well, because it immediately implies you do not trust them to do their job. Even if you don't actively heal, the moment that resto is seen it will put doubts in people's minds, and that can be all it takes.

I think you may be right, in which case I should probably just stick to 1-bar damage and let groups wipe when the healer goes down. After a few wipes I could say "I could slap together a healing bar in case the healer goes down again?"

SidraWillowsky

Ezhh wrote: »

kypranb14_ESO wrote: »

Front Bar: DPS
- Purifying Light every 6s with priority over following abilities.
- Solar Barrage every 10s.
- Blazing Spear every 10s.
- Puncturing Sweep every second none of the previous abilities need to be casted on.
- Inner Light (Slotted for simplified/cheap Major Prophecy.)

Backbar: Healing
- Illustrious Spring every 10s unless it needs to be repositioned.
- Energy Orb
- Ritual of Rebirth
- Restoring Focus (I like the stamina restore, and I don't need anymore magicka restore.)
- Extended Ritual

If you are queueing as a DD you are quite possibly being kicked because you are being seen with a resto and healing skills. The moment people see a resto on a DD in a dungeon they probably aren't going to take the time to check how much dps you are actually doing. They will just see a resto and assume you don't have a clue. If the group has a real healer (not as rare as some people like to make out from my experience) then it's quite possibly going to annoy them as well, because it immediately implies you do not trust them to do their job. Even if you don't actively heal, the moment that resto is seen it will put doubts in people's minds, and that can be all it takes.

^ yep. 25-30k is quite good in theory, but if the other DD in your pug group has very, very low DPS, you're going to struggle (as you should; these dungeons are generally designed to need two decent DDs to clear). That, in combination with a restoration staff, if going to make it seem like your DPS is low, too, and that you don't know what you're doing.

Ditch the resto staff as your de facto back bar. Pull it out for emergencies only. There's no need for it if you have even a half decent healer.

kypranb14_ESO

kypranb14_ESO wrote: »

Artim_X wrote: »

Imo your dps is fine, but only if your rotation is something you can consistently do on demand in an actual fight.

My rotation is extremely easy to pull off. I always light attack weave as well.

Front Bar: DPS
- Purifying Light every 6s with priority over following abilities.
- Solar Barrage every 10s.
- Blazing Spear every 10s.
- Puncturing Sweep every second none of the previous abilities need to be casted on.
- Inner Light (Slotted for simplified/cheap Major Prophecy.)

Backbar: Healing
- Illustrious Spring every 10s unless it needs to be repositioned.
- Energy Orb
- Ritual of Rebirth
- Restoring Focus (I like the stamina restore, and I don't need anymore magicka restore.)
- Extended Ritual

I always light attack weave, I have 1500+ CP, I don't stand in stupid I get Major Sorcery, Minor Sorcery, Major Prophecy from my gear/abilities, and I only start healing if our healer dies. I have unlimited sustain just using trash potions.

So it seems the people saying it's kind of random, like a 4th joining may be right. *shrugs*

Just want to make it known, I did state that I only heal if the healer dies...

Ezhh

kypranb14_ESO wrote: »

I think you may be right, in which case I should probably just stick to 1-bar damage and let groups wipe when the healer goes down. After a few wipes I could say "I could slap together a healing bar in case the healer goes down again?"

I'd suggest having both bars dps-focused. If you are worried you can still slot some form of class self heal without needing a resto, and having two destro bars really ups your own potential for dps as well (which means things die quicker, which means less healing is needed in many cases...). If you really do get a healer who is causing the group to wipe and don't want to kick them for whatever reason, you can always then offer to help with healing and see what the group says.

Another option you could consider is just queuing as healer with your current skill set up (but then maybe switch Restoring Focus to Combat Prayer to buff people). Good healers can often keep up enough heals while contributing dps as well - they do not only slot heals.

Right now it looks like you are a bit of a hybrid between two roles, and it's better to pick one and commit to it. It'll make groups less likely to be mistaken about what you are doing.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

kypranb14_ESO wrote: »

How much DPS is enough for me to queue as DPS in Random Veteran Dungeon Finder?

I'm genuinely curious, as I pull 25-30k self buffed on 3m dummy, and I have been kicked from several dungeons without explanation.

For a point of comparison, my wife does 7-11k DPS self buffed on the same dummy, and has never been kicked.

We both know mechanics as well.

Mostly interested in hearing a suggested number, and I welcome your own experiences in the Veteran queue as well!

If it is really self-buffed, I think that is sufficient, but there are DLCs, especially HMs where you will struggle. For non DLC vet, you are perfectly fine.

My real pushback is that a 3million health dummy is a fairly poor benchmark for damage. The health is too low and on a 3 mil, there is actually quite a difference between 25 and 30k. If you had said 30k on a 6 mil self buffed, I would tell your your DPS is not an issue at all.

If 3 other people are kicking you as a DPS, well, there are a few possibilities. One, your DPS in actual combat is bad/less than what you are pulling on a dummy. It's easy to know what DPS other people are pulling, you just cant hide it. Two, you were failing at mechanics. Three, the other group members had perhaps higher than average expectations. I certainly don't expect to stack and burn everything in a group finder, but some people do. Especially if you get a 3 man premade looking for fast clears, they may kick a lot faster than a pure random group.

I will be as candid as I can be. It is absolutely easy to say that 25-30k single target is enough to clear just about any content in this game. And outside of perhaps a few vet DLC hardmodes, it is absolutely a correct statement. That said, in todays meta, if all you are pulling is 25k, your DPS is VERY low for someone interested in vet content. Damage is so high these days that there are plenty of very simple rotation to get significantly higher than that. 40-50k on a 3 mil is very achievable with a little work.

If someone doesn't have the coordination to break 30k in todays meta, I struggle to believe they have the coordination to respect all mechanics on some of the more difficult fights. The notion that high DPS cant follow mechanics is a fallacy put forth by people with low DPS.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

kypranb14_ESO wrote: »

Artim_X wrote: »

Imo your dps is fine, but only if your rotation is something you can consistently do on demand in an actual fight.

My rotation is extremely easy to pull off. I always light attack weave as well.

Front Bar: DPS
- Purifying Light every 6s with priority over following abilities.
- Solar Barrage every 10s.
- Blazing Spear every 10s.
- Puncturing Sweep every second none of the previous abilities need to be casted on.
- Inner Light (Slotted for simplified/cheap Major Prophecy.)

Backbar: Healing
- Illustrious Spring every 10s unless it needs to be repositioned.
- Energy Orb
- Ritual of Rebirth
- Restoring Focus (I like the stamina restore, and I don't need anymore magicka restore.)
- Extended Ritual

I always light attack weave, I have 1500+ CP, I don't stand in stupid I get Major Sorcery, Minor Sorcery, Major Prophecy from my gear/abilities, and I only start healing if our healer dies. I have unlimited sustain just using trash potions.

So it seems the people saying it's kind of random, like a 4th joining may be right. *shrugs*

I almost never initiate a vote kick unless there is some try hard running way ahead and someone else is trying to do a quest for example. That said, if someone initiated a vote kick in Vet groupfinder on a DPS running a resto staff, I am probably clicking yes, especially if I look down and see I am doing more than half the DPS.

ZeroDPS

kypranb14_ESO wrote: »

How much DPS is enough for me to queue as DPS in Random Veteran Dungeon Finder?

I'm genuinely curious, as I pull 25-30k self buffed on 3m dummy, and I have been kicked from several dungeons without explanation.

For a point of comparison, my wife does 7-11k DPS self buffed on the same dummy, and has never been kicked.

We both know mechanics as well.

Mostly interested in hearing a suggested number, and I welcome your own experiences in the Veteran queue as well!

Franchise408 wrote: »

25k-30k is enough for any vet dungeon. You're good.

I can't elaborate on why people may have kicked you, as I wasn't there.

Perhaps it's because there are many people who believe you *need* to be pulling 70k minimum.

But 70k DPS is not necessary even for vet DLC trials. You can clear vet DLC trials with 30k-40k DPS. You might not get trifectas, but you'll clear.

25k-30k is about what I pull as well in vet DLC dungeons, and I've never had much problem with burn.

answering you guys. Look you can do ANY contend with 25k stable dps, BUT we have achievements like Tick-Tock Tormentor and when you want to do them, you need really high dps besides builds and straignt arms

Oreyn_Bearclaw

kypranb14_ESO wrote: »

Artim_X wrote: »

Imo your dps is fine, but only if your rotation is something you can consistently do on demand in an actual fight.

My rotation is extremely easy to pull off. I always light attack weave as well.

Front Bar: DPS
- Purifying Light every 6s with priority over following abilities.
- Solar Barrage every 10s.
- Blazing Spear every 10s.
- Puncturing Sweep every second none of the previous abilities need to be casted on.
- Inner Light (Slotted for simplified/cheap Major Prophecy.)

Backbar: Healing
- Illustrious Spring every 10s unless it needs to be repositioned.
- Energy Orb
- Ritual of Rebirth
- Restoring Focus (I like the stamina restore, and I don't need anymore magicka restore.)
- Extended Ritual

I always light attack weave, I have 1500+ CP, I don't stand in stupid I get Major Sorcery, Minor Sorcery, Major Prophecy from my gear/abilities, and I only start healing if our healer dies. I have unlimited sustain just using trash potions.

So it seems the people saying it's kind of random, like a 4th joining may be right. *shrugs*

And just for fun, lets talk about your back bar.

First, Change it to a destro staff, fire is certainly best, but any are better than a resto staff.

-Change Healing Springs, blazing spear. Still a ground AOE, so it wont feel all that different. Perhaps throw another single target DOT where you have Spear on your front bar. You could also leave spear where you have it and put scalding rune here.

-Change Energy Orb to Mystic Orb. Way more damage, will feel the same to you from a rotation standpoint.

-Change Ritual of Rebirth to Elemental blockade/unstable wall. This is the biggest change, but not running blockade as a magic DPS is vote kick worthy right there. Hard to say anything is mandatory but, blockade as a mag DPS is as close as it gets.

-Change Restoring Focus to Channeled Focus. If you dont need the mag sustain, your build is probably too heavy on regen to begin with. All jewelry glyphs should be spell damage, and none of your sets should be regen focused as a DPS. This could also be a self heal or shield if your sustain is fine.

-Change extended ritual to Ritual of Retribution. Fairly straight forward, take the damage morph as a DPS.

Would this be an absolute meta build, no, but it would be a very minimal change in gear (one weapon), skills (pretty much just a morph reset) and playstyle (almost identical), with a pretty hefty bump in DPS. When queued as a DPS in group finder, it is not your job to heal others, full stop. There is nothing wrong with an oh crap button like a shield or self heal, etc., but you have a full healing bar. I cant blame others for kicking you setup like that as a DPS.

In fact, if you want to run that build, queue as a healer. It is way more acceptable to go hybrid DPS/Heals and queue as a healer, than it is to queue as a DPS. You could heal most content in the game with those bars, and pump out 30k to boot. That is great for a healer, lousy for a DPS.

karekiz

ZeroDPS wrote: »

kypranb14_ESO wrote: »

How much DPS is enough for me to queue as DPS in Random Veteran Dungeon Finder?

I'm genuinely curious, as I pull 25-30k self buffed on 3m dummy, and I have been kicked from several dungeons without explanation.

For a point of comparison, my wife does 7-11k DPS self buffed on the same dummy, and has never been kicked.

We both know mechanics as well.

Mostly interested in hearing a suggested number, and I welcome your own experiences in the Veteran queue as well!

Franchise408 wrote: »

25k-30k is enough for any vet dungeon. You're good.

I can't elaborate on why people may have kicked you, as I wasn't there.

Perhaps it's because there are many people who believe you *need* to be pulling 70k minimum.

But 70k DPS is not necessary even for vet DLC trials. You can clear vet DLC trials with 30k-40k DPS. You might not get trifectas, but you'll clear.

25k-30k is about what I pull as well in vet DLC dungeons, and I've never had much problem with burn.

answering you guys. Look you can do ANY contend with 25k stable dps, BUT we have achievements like Tick-Tock Tormentor and when you want to do them, you need really high dps besides builds and straignt arms

That doesn't really have any connection to the OP question. He is talking random dungeon finder. And I highly doubt hes going to randomly start a craglorn TTT 100% pug raid.

If your talking Trifecta dungeon runs, same rules still apply. I would never in my right mind que a random dungeon in the vain hope of getting no-death/speed run/HM Dread Cellar. I mean. Its possibly, but thats like betting on a number 1-1000 and hitting it exact.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

kypranb14_ESO wrote: »

Ezhh wrote: »

kypranb14_ESO wrote: »

Front Bar: DPS
- Purifying Light every 6s with priority over following abilities.
- Solar Barrage every 10s.
- Blazing Spear every 10s.
- Puncturing Sweep every second none of the previous abilities need to be casted on.
- Inner Light (Slotted for simplified/cheap Major Prophecy.)

Backbar: Healing
- Illustrious Spring every 10s unless it needs to be repositioned.
- Energy Orb
- Ritual of Rebirth
- Restoring Focus (I like the stamina restore, and I don't need anymore magicka restore.)
- Extended Ritual

If you are queueing as a DD you are quite possibly being kicked because you are being seen with a resto and healing skills. The moment people see a resto on a DD in a dungeon they probably aren't going to take the time to check how much dps you are actually doing. They will just see a resto and assume you don't have a clue. If the group has a real healer (not as rare as some people like to make out from my experience) then it's quite possibly going to annoy them as well, because it immediately implies you do not trust them to do their job. Even if you don't actively heal, the moment that resto is seen it will put doubts in people's minds, and that can be all it takes.

I think you may be right, in which case I should probably just stick to 1-bar damage and let groups wipe when the healer goes down. After a few wipes I could say "I could slap together a healing bar in case the healer goes down again?"

No, you should run two damage bars and trust people to do their roles, as they are trusting you to do yours. If the healer goes down, stop DPSing and res them. That is also the job of a DPS, to Res people that die. If your group wipes every time a healer goes down, your DPS arent doing their job.

karekiz

kypranb14_ESO wrote: »

Ezhh wrote: »

kypranb14_ESO wrote: »

Front Bar: DPS
- Purifying Light every 6s with priority over following abilities.
- Solar Barrage every 10s.
- Blazing Spear every 10s.
- Puncturing Sweep every second none of the previous abilities need to be casted on.
- Inner Light (Slotted for simplified/cheap Major Prophecy.)

Backbar: Healing
- Illustrious Spring every 10s unless it needs to be repositioned.
- Energy Orb
- Ritual of Rebirth
- Restoring Focus (I like the stamina restore, and I don't need anymore magicka restore.)
- Extended Ritual

If you are queueing as a DD you are quite possibly being kicked because you are being seen with a resto and healing skills. The moment people see a resto on a DD in a dungeon they probably aren't going to take the time to check how much dps you are actually doing. They will just see a resto and assume you don't have a clue. If the group has a real healer (not as rare as some people like to make out from my experience) then it's quite possibly going to annoy them as well, because it immediately implies you do not trust them to do their job. Even if you don't actively heal, the moment that resto is seen it will put doubts in people's minds, and that can be all it takes.

I think you may be right, in which case I should probably just stick to 1-bar damage and let groups wipe when the healer goes down. After a few wipes I could say "I could slap together a healing bar in case the healer goes down again?"

1. If the healer is constantly dying, maybe the issue with the healer needs to be fixed first?
2. You don't have to slot a restro staff to Off heal. That bar is a templar. Just slot in a flex spot a spot heal which is fine. You can heal with a full DPS setup. Remember Heals scale off the same stats. Sorcs can easily just run heal birdo, wardens have heals, Necro have heals, only in few exceptions <DK?> is there really not good heals that can target multiple targets.
3. I would sooner put a restro staff on a tank than any DPS anyway.

Hapexamendios

I couldn't tell you myself as I never use dummies and I think that numbers alone aren't a sign of how good you are. Hitting dummies is boring anyway. I'd much rather practice rotations on ta world boss. That way I can get a better feel for it in combat. Just my preference.

BejaProphet

Others are saying it with more words but it’s this:

Don’t build for failure. Build your character where you expect to do your job in a group that does theirs.