PSA: Dont Ninja Pull

jaws343

CaffeinatedMayhem wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

If someone rushing ahead is causing problems for my tank, I say "You aggro it, you can tank it until I get there."

Either they think about it and slow down...or at least the group knows who to blame for the mobs being scattered all over.

And if they die before I get there, you'd better believe I'm laughing over it.

I only ever pull anything on my DPS that I know I can solo. But I also know how to group them effectively, so when I see a tank not doing that, I sometimes make the pulls to clear some of them faster.

Define "see" a tank "not doing that." Becuase if you run faster than me in 7 heavy armor, no you won't "see" me grouping the adds because it's too much of a mess by the time I get there.

DONT
RUN
AHEAD

Full stop.

Edit: and if no tank will ever group adds to YOUR specifications.... you can queue as a tank. Every time some DPS races ahead pulling adds and doing small pulls when I was going to do a big one... I just tell them to queue as a tank if they want to play tank. Much shorter wait, I guarantee you.

Tanks don't play as tanks because we want to run around missing out on XP and loot because the whole group ignores that we exist (we're even SLOWER after the recent armor changes). We play tanks because we like tanking. Many of us are good at it. But if a group isn't going to let us to what we're there to do... ok, no big deal to me I can just insta-queue again until I get a group that behaves like a GROUP and not 3 random people running around like chickens.

Edit2: Sorry but not sorry for the rant. So tired of this "DPS doesn't need a tank" attitude. Even in guild groups, that KNOW I'm a real tank and know how to group, do this "run ahead and help the tank." You're NOT helping, no matter how "good" a job you think you're doing. If you don't want a tank, don't use finder or don't ask for a tank in your group! If your tank actually sucks, do whatever you want. But give your tank a CHANCE TO SHOW YOU IF THEY'RE GOOD OR NOT!
If the first thing you do after port is start running ahead, you're doing groups wrong.

I mean, the clear implication was that I only do this after witnessing a tank being awful at their role. So yeah, you do a poor job at the first few pulls, especially pulls that could be grouped or LOS'd, and you don't take advice on how to do it better, I don't really care anymore that you are a tank if I can do them better on my DPS.

A good example is Black Heart haven, the final boss before the door. PULL THE ROOM to the boss. No point in fighting the add pulls and not just burning the boss as well.

Or the first room in Direfrost after the first boss. Pull the room and the corridor around the corner. All the melee adds will follow and all the ranged adds will clump together right at base of the stairs. When they don't do that, most tanks taunt like three things and the DPS end up needing to single target most of the ranged adds. It's dumb.

Or in Elden Hollow, if the group has shown they are good leading up to the big room. Pull the whole room, taunt both bosses and pull them into the corridor. The group can then drop ults and burn everything in the room in one pull, rather than fighting individual clumps of enemies for 4x as long.

Or banished cells 2 with the Harvester. Taunt both bosses and LOS them around a pillar. It groups them together and the DPS can drop all of their AOEs on both of them, that way no one is wasting resources having to target them separately.

If I don't see tanks doing these things, I do them myself, because it makes the fights far easier for the group.

BoraxFlux

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

...Well, until WoW came up with Misdirect, at which point the Hunter pulled to the tank.
But I haven't played WoW in quite awhile, so I've no idea where they evolved after that.

Aah, that might explain something.
When tanking a group of attronachs at a dragonsite in Elsweyr, some players come over and bring me the remainder of the attronachs that are over at the other side of the field. Very handy & a much appreciated move. I can then 'stick' those to the group I'm already tanking.

CaffeinatedMayhem

jaws343 wrote: »

A good example is Black Heart haven, the final boss before the door. PULL THE ROOM to the boss. No point in fighting the add pulls and not just burning the boss as well.

For groups that can handle the boss plus the full room, great. But honestly?

It sounds like you should just queue as a tank @jaws343. Or you shouldn't use finder.

One of the things tanks do is evaluate how much aggro a group can handle. Most finder groups cannot handle this pull. Dead dps don't do damage. Dead healers don't heal. It's the TANK'S job not to overwhelm their group. Especially if the healer is fake. (sorry to all the real healers that use finder, I never get you in group)

If your tank isn't pulling the full room to the boss, and YOU pull the boss? You're being rude. And possibly causing your group to wipe.

Just don't. Really. And if the tank doesn't want to hear it from you... hm, maybe thing about that too. I don't tell bad DPS how to do more than 10k in a dungeon, unless they ask. If the ASK why they can't do 35k like the other guy, or why isn't their build working, then sure! Sat for 15 mins after BDV with the a DPS explaining why he was having trouble with the Easy Sorc. As a healer, I'll talk a tank through pulls if necessary. But if they don't want to do something, fine. You'll clear with small pulls just as easy as big ones.

Kiralyn2000

BoraxFlux wrote: »

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

...Well, until WoW came up with Misdirect, at which point the Hunter pulled to the tank.
But I haven't played WoW in quite awhile, so I've no idea where they evolved after that.

Aah, that might explain something.
When tanking a group of attronachs at a dragonsite in Elsweyr, some players come over and bring me the remainder of the attronachs that are over at the other side of the field. Very handy & a much appreciated move. I can then 'stick' those to the group I'm already tanking.

Yeah, Misdirect was even fancier than that. You targeted one of your party members with the skill (like your tank), and the next few attacks you did applied the threat to them not you. You could do some stupid pulling tricks with that. (you could also troll people hard )

Nagastani

Coatmagic wrote: »

+1 dont ninja anything please : this includes those that never speak and sneak around looting chests and not telling the group

PSA that no one will care about, but 'ninja' pulling/looting/killing was around before WoW it is not a 'WoW term'

There's a ninja behind you right now... seriously.

Vevvev

priestnall.andrewrwb17_ESO wrote: »

Its the equivalent of Pale Order to healers.

Laughs in healer that uses damage shields for those people.

priestnall.andrewrwb17_ESO

Tank: "Heya" - DPS {nothing} - probably funbuddies - run off like death on crack and aggro the whole dungeon.... wipe; I just say @That was silly and leave... its easier to take the penalty than teach folks about the other group roles and responsibilities. Sad old man is sad <Sigh> end of story

divnyi

priestnall.andrewrwb17_ESO wrote: »

Ever.

I will do whatever I want in normals because I can definitely solo every room.

priestnall.andrewrwb17_ESO

If you are capable of soloing it; you don't need group finder. So why use group finder that is *these days - foolishly IMO - designed / restricted around a tank a healer and two DPS setup.

divnyi

priestnall.andrewrwb17_ESO wrote: »

If you are capable of soloing it; you don't need group finder. So why use group finder that is *these days - foolishly IMO - designed / restricted around a tank a healer and two DPS setup.

RND reward.

priestnall.andrewrwb17_ESO

Yeah... granted the Group Finder needs to be more flexible to allow players to create / customize e.g. 3 DPS 1 Healer setups - hopefully that's on the to-do list.

priestnall.andrewrwb17_ESO

CaffeinatedMayhem wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

A good example is Black Heart haven, the final boss before the door. PULL THE ROOM to the boss. No point in fighting the add pulls and not just burning the boss as well.

For groups that can handle the boss plus the full room, great. But honestly?

It sounds like you should just queue as a tank @jaws343. Or you shouldn't use finder.

One of the things tanks do is evaluate how much aggro a group can handle. Most finder groups cannot handle this pull. Dead dps don't do damage. Dead healers don't heal. It's the TANK'S job not to overwhelm their group. Especially if the healer is fake. (sorry to all the real healers that use finder, I never get you in group)

If your tank isn't pulling the full room to the boss, and YOU pull the boss? You're being rude. And possibly causing your group to wipe.

Just don't. Really. And if the tank doesn't want to hear it from you... hm, maybe thing about that too. I don't tell bad DPS how to do more than 10k in a dungeon, unless they ask. If the ASK why they can't do 35k like the other guy, or why isn't their build working, then sure! Sat for 15 mins after BDV with the a DPS explaining why he was having trouble with the Easy Sorc. As a healer, I'll talk a tank through pulls if necessary. But if they don't want to do something, fine. You'll clear with small pulls just as easy as big ones.

True that; tanks job *apart from being a chubby meat shield and an aggro magnet - is to evaluate the groups capability - incoming heals; DPS, formation and pull accordingly. If you guys know what you are doing Ill be like " Alright … bring the PAIN!". If some fella is hovering around 17-18k hp and clearly his first run we need to consider them and adjust accordingly. Its a team effort - you go as fast as the slowest member of your group - that is called a team.

priestnall.andrewrwb17_ESO

divnyi wrote: »

priestnall.andrewrwb17_ESO wrote: »

If you are capable of soloing it; you don't need group finder. So why use group finder that is *these days - foolishly IMO - designed / restricted around a tank a healer and two DPS setup.

RND reward.

That's one way to play... Just as life; you can be a massive **** to everyone OR you can decide to help your fellow man and just be kind. Even though we will all end up as wormfood and faded pictures... you can decide to be kind.

priestnall.andrewrwb17_ESO

But yeah; a more player orientated group finder is required - YOU create the group, YOU specify the roles desired and the dungeon and difficultly intended *you wanna throw in looting options...sure. Covering overland group content; trials and dungeons. That would be awesome. A clever, well-thought out feature incorporating build diversity.

aipex8_ESO

When I do vet content I don't "ninja" pull. In regular content though, since I use the new Rush of Agony set I can Stampede in ahead of the tank and pull most of the trash into a small group. I've actually had tanks compliment me on using the set.

priestnall.andrewrwb17_ESO

Yeah if you are smart enough to control the aggro with the tank IN MIND.......... then you won the game.

priestnall.andrewrwb17_ESO

I have seen a few smart dudes passively "chaining in" adds with that set and I feel VERY appreciative... its the knob jockeys that go balls to the wall - Leroy that I dislike *quite a lot <RAGE>. Tank pulls end of story; OR you can roll tank and live the lovely life.. I give it you! All for you, you beautiful monster.