Raid group gets banned for discovering and reporting game-breaking bug on Bahsei boss fight

MajThorax

Lol stop reporting things to zos. 😂😂

corrosivechains

etchedpixels wrote: »

You can always report exploits or holes in any Microsoft prroduct (and Microsoft owns Zenimax) through security@microsoft.com, they have a set of very strong policies on proper handling of things, non-retaliation etc.

buscond@microsoft.com is another good email to have in situations like this, so that you can talk to Microsoft directly if you feel one of the companies under their ownership has handled an issue improperly.

Vaoh

Saw the vid. There’s no way to say for sure whether killing the boss or simply finding the exploit is what got your group permabanned. Removing loot+achievements for the fight completion would have been sufficient. Banning only makes sense if they find in their internal logs that you abused the exploit to beat the fight multiple times.

Lesson Learned: Never report serious exploits to ZOS.

Kind of ridiculous when an in-depth reporting of a serious exploit can get you banned

Mumbles_the_Tank

Just about sums up the competence and quality of this company - banning people for doing the work they can’t be bothered to do.

Dragonnord

So you're saying ZOS banned you for reporting a bug? You are literally saying that?

I guess you didn't do anything else then. I mean, no one got any chievements, not even one, no one looted anything, no one did nothing that makes ZOS waste time working on your personal accounts to remove stuff back, right?

Also, I suppose you didn't kill the boss. I'm sure you guys fought for like 20 or 30 seconds and stopped, correct?
 

Chaos2088

Really hope this highlights that this system set in place for this, is not fit for purpose it seems.....people should not get a ban for bringing something to Zos's attention that effects gameplay in this manner. Don't want to sound super British here....but tis bad sport.

What_In_Tarnation

It's been hours and still not a single official mod join the discussion. lmao

VaranisArano

What_In_Tarnation wrote: »

It's been hours and still not a single official mod join the discussion. lmao

In US time, it was posted late last night and it's now 9:30 am EST. Over the years, I've noticed that late night drama threads don't get a lot of moderation until the morning - hey, even Mods need their sleep

Assuming that Support and the Mods work roughly the same schedule as the ZOS Devs, I'm hopeful that somebody will pay a little more attention during the day.

It would help, though, if the OP or effected members would post their Ticket #s, since the Mods here are only going to be able to make sure they with the right Support Team.

corrosivechains

Dragonnord wrote: »

So you're saying ZOS banned you for reporting a bug? You are literally saying that?

I guess you didn't do anything else then. I mean, no one got any chievements, not even one, no one looted anything, no one did nothing that makes ZOS waste time working on your personal accounts to remove stuff back, right?

Also, I suppose you didn't kill the boss. I'm sure you guys fought for like 20 or 30 seconds and stopped, correct?
 

Whether or not they did isn't grounds for a ban if they reported the issue. As many have already laid out, quality control requires repeated testing of bugs and possible exploits to see if the issue is reproducible, can be achieved through other methods, or if it was a fluke that only happened once.

The proper way to handle it would have been for ZoS to have the people they hired to do just that, check and see these things as well then go over the logs of this group, remove the things you lined out if they acquired them in multiple, and say it was due to assessing the bug and finding out it was in fact exploitable.

And that's really the bare minimum. Many companies offer rewards to those who find bugs and exploits on top of keeping those items they acquired when doing so, if the logs again show what they were doing was testing the bug and not completely exploiting it(IE running it for several days before reporting). And even then, banning is usually only after repeated offenses of being caught exploiting, not for people who report the bugs themselves.

Ratzkifal

Wouldn't be the first time a big company banned people who were only trying to help and do the right thing...

Razorruk

Dragonnord wrote: »

So you're saying ZOS banned you for reporting a bug? You are literally saying that?

I guess you didn't do anything else then. I mean, no one got any chievements, not even one, no one looted anything, no one did nothing that makes ZOS waste time working on your personal accounts to remove stuff back, right?

Also, I suppose you didn't kill the boss. I'm sure you guys fought for like 20 or 30 seconds and stopped, correct?
 

You think a single boss kill which yields no meaningful achievement, and 1-2body pieces of loot is proportional to a perma ban? Bet you're fun down the pub

WhyMustItBe

I cannot help wondering if they "discovered" this bug repeatedly over and over and over and over...

Celephantsylvius_Bornasfinmo

Context is needed, I agree.

Speculation post once again. I'm sure a mod has seen this by now. Let the company deal with the issue and make sure you are addressing the right people and if you did 'exploit' the glitch (not saying you did - 'if')...well then apologize to them before asking for re-credentials.

Good luck in the endeavour and I hope a reasonable solution is found for all.

DonHardstyle

Unpopular opinion probably,

To say first, it unfortunate and f*cked up for them to be banned. But, when you discover an bug/exploit in an trial you should just wipe it, reset the trial or whatever else. Make sure you don't clear the trial with the bug/exploit active. Never ever continue killing the boss, loot it an finish the trial.

Now they say it wasn't intented, if that's true or not i leave in the middle. But if you want to record an bug/exploit. Make sure you don't benefit from it/do it on pts. They got past bahsei because of this, so Zos says on their turn they used the exploit.

Ban, imo is deserved. They should have known better. Perm ban, maybe an bit to much.

divnyi

DonHardstyle wrote: »

Ban, imo is deserved. They should have known better.

If they just didn't care and didn't record anything, they would never get a ban.

Banning a whistleblower means lots of people will just use the bug, lots of people will use bug unknowingly, and devs won't get the critical information to patch up their game.

And if devs would try to search and ban everyone, who used the bug (if that's even possible to search for that specific interaction), that would be huge blanket ban that would drag lots of people who didn't even understand what was happening.

You should never ban people reporting a bug. That's application development 101. It's such a horrible practice that I find it hard to believe this is actually happening.

kojou

DonHardstyle wrote: »

Unpopular opinion probably,

To say first, it unfortunate and f*cked up for them to be banned. But, when you discover an bug/exploit in an trial you should just wipe it, reset the trial or whatever else. Make sure you don't clear the trial with the bug/exploit active. Never ever continue killing the boss, loot it an finish the trial.

Now they say it wasn't intented, if that's true or not i leave in the middle. But if you want to record an bug/exploit. Make sure you don't benefit from it/do it on pts. They got past bahsei because of this, so Zos says on their turn they used the exploit.

Ban, imo is deserved. They should have known better. Perm ban, maybe an bit to much.

We don't have the full story, and we probably never will. We have their (the accused) side of the story, but we don't have what the support reps saw in the logs. For all we know they reproduced the issue 4 or 5 times (just to be sure of course) and then reported it. They are going to make things sound more unfair in a post, because obviously they want sympathy from the community.

If they were unfairly banned then I am certain someone in support will review it and overturn it. I can't imagine ZOS perma-nuking the accounts of 12 (potentially ESO+) players without a good reason.

Casul

Didn't people get necromancer for free with a bug and ZoS just slapped them on the wrist. But these guys try to out a bug before it gets abused (anyone remember CWC trials being sold) and get banned. Very foolish if you ask me.

Celephantsylvius_Bornasfinmo

kojou wrote: »

DonHardstyle wrote: »

Unpopular opinion probably,

To say first, it unfortunate and f*cked up for them to be banned. But, when you discover an bug/exploit in an trial you should just wipe it, reset the trial or whatever else. Make sure you don't clear the trial with the bug/exploit active. Never ever continue killing the boss, loot it an finish the trial.

Now they say it wasn't intented, if that's true or not i leave in the middle. But if you want to record an bug/exploit. Make sure you don't benefit from it/do it on pts. They got past bahsei because of this, so Zos says on their turn they used the exploit.

Ban, imo is deserved. They should have known better. Perm ban, maybe an bit to much.

We don't have the full story, and we probably never will. We have their (the accused) side of the story, but we don't have what the support reps saw in the logs. For all we know they reproduced the issue 4 or 5 times (just to be sure of course) and then reported it. They are going to make things sound more unfair in a post, because obviously they want sympathy from the community.

If they were unfairly banned then I am certain someone in support will review it and overturn it. I can't imagine ZOS perma-nuking the accounts of 12 (potentially ESO+) players without a good reason.

Agreed.

Follow our steps above and good luck! Hope it works out for all concerned.

OutLaw_Nynx

Insane.

I remember when you could streak behind gates in Maw. One of my friends replicated the glitch and sent it to the support. He didn’t pick up any items, so maybe that is why he didn’t get banned. Hope this team can be unbanned.

DonHardstyle

divnyi wrote: »

DonHardstyle wrote: »

Ban, imo is deserved. They should have known better.

If they just didn't care and didn't record anything, they would never get a ban.

Banning a whistleblower means lots of people will just use the bug, lots of people will use bug unknowingly, and devs won't get the critical information to patch up their game.

And if devs would try to search and ban everyone, who used the bug (if that's even possible to search for that specific interaction), that would be huge blanket ban that would drag lots of people who didn't even understand what was happening.

You should never ban people reporting a bug. That's application development 101. It's such a horrible practice that I find it hard to believe this is actually happening.

Yeah you're right. Let's say it like this: Punishment ( in the way of removing possible loot and or achievement) is deserved

Tandor

Ratzkifal wrote: »

Wouldn't be the first time a big company banned people who were only trying to help and do the right thing...

Nor would it be the first time players who had been rightly banned came to the forum to protest their innocence !

I'm not remotely claiming that is the case here, merely pointing out that a lot of players are quick to take sides having only heard one side.

Also, people tend to misuse the word "ban". It should refer to a permanent exclusion, not merely a suspension for a day or two as it often does, or as may be the case here (again, we know none of the details) putting a pause on the accounts pending thorough investigation.

DrackoreUSAF

I really wish I thought this wasn't true but in my years of playing this game I've seen ZoS do this before.

If they looted and got achievements, take it away - but don't freaking ban them for reporting the bug.

I'll definitely not be reporting anything I find moving forward.

ssewallb14_ESO

I know it's against company policy but it would be nice to get some clarification on this just so everyone knows what to expect regarding recording exploits.

Like were they actually banned for recording the exploit, or did they exploit it as much as they could for gear/achievements and then report their "discovery" as an attempt to avoid a ban?

coop500

Moral of the story: Don't report things I guess

heaven13

BuildMan wrote: »

Didn't people get necromancer for free with a bug and ZoS just slapped them on the wrist. But these guys try to out a bug before it gets abused (anyone remember CWC trials being sold) and get banned. Very foolish if you ask me.

I don't think they even got a slap on the wrist. Everyone who exploited that to get the class free got to keep it.

ajkb78

No more bug reports from me then, unless this gets reversed really quickly. Pretty shoddy treatment for people who are providing for free the QA that it seems wasn't done before release. I'm not risking my account if this is how bug reporters are treated.

Amottica

Thor199389 wrote: »

DragonRacer wrote: »

@ZOS_Kevin

Tag done, now add your ticket number, OP

OP is banned from forum aswell afaik.

You merely have to look at their forum account to see they are not.

corrosivechains

DonHardstyle wrote: »

divnyi wrote: »

DonHardstyle wrote: »

Ban, imo is deserved. They should have known better.

If they just didn't care and didn't record anything, they would never get a ban.

Banning a whistleblower means lots of people will just use the bug, lots of people will use bug unknowingly, and devs won't get the critical information to patch up their game.

And if devs would try to search and ban everyone, who used the bug (if that's even possible to search for that specific interaction), that would be huge blanket ban that would drag lots of people who didn't even understand what was happening.

You should never ban people reporting a bug. That's application development 101. It's such a horrible practice that I find it hard to believe this is actually happening.

Yeah you're right. Let's say it like this: Punishment ( in the way of removing possible loot and or achievement) is deserved

This is exactly the way to handle it on ZoS's end. You go back, review the logs, test internally to see if the bug exists, and if it's exploitable. You then, with the information you have from those logs, remove any of the "ill gotten gains" that were had from the team who reported the bug, with a message of thanks for reporting and an apology for having to remove any items/achievements that were had by figuring out the exploit/bug, but it was necessary due to review and determining it was indeed a bug.

Banning people, and having others come in and defend the banning, is just going to convince other players to not report any bugs or exploits they come across, and allow the proliferation of abuse until there are too many offenders to just blanked ban everyone who has used it.

It really shouldn't be necessary to explain that incentivizing people to report bugs is the way to handle such issues. They reported the issue, if they did it repeatedly before doing so again, just remove any of the gains they acquired.

joseayalac

How on earth can something like this happen? It's almost mindblowing.

[snip]

[Edit for Bashing.]

joseayalac

etchedpixels wrote: »

You can always report exploits or holes in any Microsoft prroduct (and Microsoft owns Zenimax) through security@microsoft.com, they have a set of very strong policies on proper handling of things, non-retaliation etc.

Maybe going directly to Microsoft is what OP's group should do, instead of losing time with ZOS.