a lesson from WoW that ESO should probably look at (FF14 got this right btw)

UGotBenched91

Eiagra wrote: »

Meh. No sexy orcs over in FF14 land. I'll pass.

I've seen a lot of people having fun with FF14, and I'm glad they have something different that works for them. That's important -- if all MMOs were the same and not trying new things, the genre would stagnate (think of the days of WoW clones). That said, asking a different MMO to change to "what works" is also asking to homogenize the genre and introduce stagnation.

Let the devteams do what they will with the games they're working on. All games don't have to be all things to all players. It's okay if there's a mix of philosophies and development vision. Be excited about the features you love in the games you have fun with. Ponder opportunities for improvement where you see them. But if you have a really want to remix what you observe as cool and fun, go by the adage, "If you want something done right, do it yourself" -- take courses that will get you onto a devteam (or gain the skills to form your own) and build that dream from the inside.

@Eiagra

I also enjoy the orc life but ESO Orcs are far from sexy. Perhaps the ugliest interpretation of Orcs I’ve witnessed. Giant forehead wrinkles and open gaping mouth breathers. Now lineage 2. Those are some fierce and intelligent looking Orcs.

Sephyr

UGotBenched91 wrote: »

Eiagra wrote: »

Meh. No sexy orcs over in FF14 land. I'll pass.

I've seen a lot of people having fun with FF14, and I'm glad they have something different that works for them. That's important -- if all MMOs were the same and not trying new things, the genre would stagnate (think of the days of WoW clones). That said, asking a different MMO to change to "what works" is also asking to homogenize the genre and introduce stagnation.

Let the devteams do what they will with the games they're working on. All games don't have to be all things to all players. It's okay if there's a mix of philosophies and development vision. Be excited about the features you love in the games you have fun with. Ponder opportunities for improvement where you see them. But if you have a really want to remix what you observe as cool and fun, go by the adage, "If you want something done right, do it yourself" -- take courses that will get you onto a devteam (or gain the skills to form your own) and build that dream from the inside.

@Eiagra

I also enjoy the orc life but ESO Orcs are far from sexy. Perhaps the ugliest interpretation of Orcs I’ve witnessed. Giant forehead wrinkles and open gaping mouth breathers. Now lineage 2. Those are some fierce and intelligent looking Orcs.

Has uh...

Has this turned into an Orc thirst thread now? Cause I'm down.

rageofodin

Wing wrote: »

"As for the Covenant campaign skip for alts and the ability to freely swap Covenants on alts, that change is one outgrowth of many ongoing discussions within the development team, focused on feedback that at times players feel that the WoW content they most enjoy is locked behind experiences that aren’t nearly as appealing to them. Some of that feedback revolves around different playstyles and content types, but a consistent theme is that experiences that were fun the first time through start to lose their luster on repeat playthroughs on alts, especially when required for power progression."

-Psijic
-Undaunted
-EVERY guild, though fighters levels the most passively
-Achievements (though not required for power progression.)
-etc.

FF14 avoids this with the job system, every player can level and switch between every "class" on a single character, THEY HAVE 18 JOBS btw with comparable depth to ESO classes, the only reason you would level an alt, is the DESIRE to level another character.

this, is why I and others want class change.

nobody wants class change as a feature because they cannot level another character to 50, that is not the problem.

I wonder if it will take a mass exodus of players and ESO experiencing unprecedented failure as well before we get some of these very basic requested features that were previously "impossible" to magickly become possible. . .I guess time will tell.

I would love to see them even mix and match some skill lines within existing classes!

Eiagra

Sephyr wrote: »

UGotBenched91 wrote: »

Eiagra wrote: »

Meh. No sexy orcs over in FF14 land. I'll pass.

I also enjoy the orc life but ESO Orcs are far from sexy. Perhaps the ugliest interpretation of Orcs I’ve witnessed. Giant forehead wrinkles and open gaping mouth breathers. Now lineage 2. Those are some fierce and intelligent looking Orcs.

Has uh...

Has this turned into an Orc thirst thread now? Cause I'm down.

I mean, it'd be better to stay on topic and discuss Orc thirst separately. (And I can also acknowledge the art-dev criticisms brought up here, but I suspect the underbite is to keep assets and resources consistent and easy to code, and isn't truly representative of the fiercely tusked orcs of Tamriel.)

Kel

Jeirno wrote: »

If you like FF go play FF, if you dont like ESO dont play ESO.

It's weird....it's almost like you can have multiple interests and play many different games.

What a time to be alive....

Gythral

Dont add Pandas

thadjarvis

Gaebriel0410 wrote: »

Though I'm not a fan of a game with a mandatory sub having a huge store as well, that's too much double dipping for my liking.

ESO should definitely take a good look at the Psijic skill line, doing it once is fine but doing that on alts is absolutely soul destroying, I think that's the only thing in ESO that felt like an unnecessary grind to me.

Another way to solve would be so that the monthly crowns you get for subbing is about equal to the purchase of one skill line.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

I think an optional account wide achievement page (not suggesting removing character achievement pages) accomplishes a lot of the same goals without being pay 2 play. Leveling alts is frankly pretty fast. I will concede that mages and psijic guild could be looked at for their overt grindyness.

I would rather have alts of multiple classes with account based achievements than to constantly have to respec the same toon to different classes, especially because you know they would charge for the later.

Chips_Ahoy

UGotBenched91 wrote: »

Eiagra wrote: »

Meh. No sexy orcs over in FF14 land. I'll pass.

I've seen a lot of people having fun with FF14, and I'm glad they have something different that works for them. That's important -- if all MMOs were the same and not trying new things, the genre would stagnate (think of the days of WoW clones). That said, asking a different MMO to change to "what works" is also asking to homogenize the genre and introduce stagnation.

Let the devteams do what they will with the games they're working on. All games don't have to be all things to all players. It's okay if there's a mix of philosophies and development vision. Be excited about the features you love in the games you have fun with. Ponder opportunities for improvement where you see them. But if you have a really want to remix what you observe as cool and fun, go by the adage, "If you want something done right, do it yourself" -- take courses that will get you onto a devteam (or gain the skills to form your own) and build that dream from the inside.

@Eiagra

I also enjoy the orc life but ESO Orcs are far from sexy. Perhaps the ugliest interpretation of Orcs I’ve witnessed. Giant forehead wrinkles and open gaping mouth breathers. Now lineage 2. Those are some fierce and intelligent looking Orcs.

What did you just say?

Orcs are the most noble and beautiful creatures in Nirn, you have just won a sworn enemy.

zelaminator

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Jeirno wrote: »

If you like FF go play FF, if you dont like ESO dont play ESO.

This is not productive advice.

Of course you should if you dislike enough things, but learning good things from other games is a way to improve the game. Just telling people to leave ultimately leads to what WoW is facing now.

Preeeeeeeetty sure that WoWs current mass exodus is rooted in more serious matters

NotaDaedraWorshipper

UGotBenched91 wrote: »

I also enjoy the orc life but ESO Orcs are far from sexy. Perhaps the ugliest interpretation of Orcs I’ve witnessed. Giant forehead wrinkles and open gaping mouth breathers. Now lineage 2. Those are some fierce and intelligent looking Orcs.

Hard pass. Those are looking way too samey to the other races. That game looks to suffer greatly from "humans but with pointy ears and different skin colour".
I take our glorious toothy orsimer any day over that.

Viyvos

I agree. Class change token is the only token missing in the collection. It's about time it gets released. I hope they do it next year in the next chapter like they released alliance change token.

Amottica

This has nothing to do with why WoW has been bleeding players recently. As someone who has played WoW, FF14, and ofc, ESO, it is also not a significant driver in a game's success or failure. It is fairly insignificant compared to what really matters to a game's success.

Also, with ESO every character can perform every role so the job thing is not very relevant.

Wizardry

UGotBenched91 wrote: »

Eiagra wrote: »

Meh. No sexy orcs over in FF14 land. I'll pass.

I've seen a lot of people having fun with FF14, and I'm glad they have something different that works for them. That's important -- if all MMOs were the same and not trying new things, the genre would stagnate (think of the days of WoW clones). That said, asking a different MMO to change to "what works" is also asking to homogenize the genre and introduce stagnation.

Let the devteams do what they will with the games they're working on. All games don't have to be all things to all players. It's okay if there's a mix of philosophies and development vision. Be excited about the features you love in the games you have fun with. Ponder opportunities for improvement where you see them. But if you have a really want to remix what you observe as cool and fun, go by the adage, "If you want something done right, do it yourself" -- take courses that will get you onto a devteam (or gain the skills to form your own) and build that dream from the inside.

@Eiagra

I also enjoy the orc life but ESO Orcs are far from sexy. Perhaps the ugliest interpretation of Orcs I’ve witnessed. Giant forehead wrinkles and open gaping mouth breathers. Now lineage 2. Those are some fierce and intelligent looking Orcs.

There's no need for them to be look beautiful I can't understand the argument really, all races of tamriel and beyond looks ugly af, since Daggerfall/Battlespire concept arts till recently Skyrim, just look at the High Elf, Wood Elf and Orc concept arts from Skyrim here.https://imgur.com/a/DDIaUpg

Wizardry

Completely agree, this game needs an overhaul something bigger than One Tamriel. Aside from that, the game became easy and the content feels so bland since Eslweyr.

Hotel6

I mean, I do sometimes enjoy to level a new class. But, mount, mages guild and psijic are the no go for me. And the issue can be resolved, but they chose to lock it behind a paywall.

Mandragora

The only lession I want from FF is proffesion system and the only lession from WoW I want is the zones immersion. They can have the rest Only I want that really badly in ESO. Why there are no black trees in Blackwood? It feels like single trees, but nothing immersive, the most immersive place is public dung, which is strange.

Mythreindeer

Is it just me or is this thread meandering aimlessly?

Rhetorical.

Jameson18

What's with the WoW exodus? I thought I saw something in one of the content folks' vids about legal trouble as well?

wildbear247

Jeirno wrote: »

If you like FF go play FF, if you dont like ESO dont play ESO.

Such a bad response to someone giving feedback on how ESO can evolve. The OP's topic is relevant and has arisen many times over the years. There is very little counter-argument to having more flexibility in a game, especially where it allows players to bypass repetitive grind. I say this as someone with 17 characters, 6 of which I regularly plan now. I've done my share of repetitive grinding and it's not a fun aspect of the game.