NEW PROC SETS SO OP

Lapin_Logic

Foto1 wrote: »

these sets are not dlc

Just because these sets are not DLC does not mean they will not sell new/ returning subs to cash in before the Nerf my young Padawan.

Fhritz

Lapin_Logic wrote: »

Zerg Busting Enabling Sets.

As usual ZOS Dropped the ball, its almost like a pattern, Release Crimson, Raises interest on YouTube, Sells copies/Subs waits, NERFS, Says "We learned this time, Promise", drops PTS with next Ludicrous set, Doesn't reduce it's damage if the wearer is Also in a group/running in proximity to faction mates results in dozens of purple black hole gravity orbs appearing in a 60 meter radius around you while more explosions than the 4th of July happen.

"IF" This was about stopping "Zergs" then maybe they shouldn't have created "Alliance WAR" where Armies face Armies to control keeps/ IC districts.

"IF" This was about stopping Zergs, then Why are reflector tanks almost pointless and receive nerfs.

"IF" this was to stop Super tanks or the Tank meta then add class skills that drop blocks, add morphs that get more powerful (single target) the higher a persons mitigation (but is much much weaker against normal players as a gamble, i,.e Not Hrothgar), Or simply CAP the resist/mitigation at a much lower level in PVP via Battle spirit.

Simply "Adding higher damage set X" has only ever served to push power creep in ESO and in other games too, Just look back at ESO over the years, starts ok, gets crazy, ZOS "Big reset guys" then creep it again, If they carry on then ESO will just look like THIS
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-TGxrUQjkk

These set are obtainable in the vanilla version, without any DLC or ESO+ (and ESO+ doesn't give any advantages for obtaining these set)

And I don't think these set are op at all, you just need to play smarter and change your strats. You can still block, dodge and run (Plus Hrotgar doesn't hit that much against non-tank, sometimes i think the game mess with the proc and make it proc several times on the same attack if it's an aoe stun (You can even desync to proc the set even if your stun was on a bar where the set isn't active, ZoS need to fix the bugs but the set itself is fine) )

aslancik12

Fhritz wrote: »

Hrotgar is fine, but I think sometimes it's bugged. Either for AoE stun the proc take in count resistance of ecery single person hit OR it proc multiples times, both of these situations aren't normal at all.

hrotghar fine ? my friends hits 19k-22k so many times.Where is the skill in this stuation ? you just using streak on them and hrothgar proc.NO SKİLL.

I dont know why ppl wants these proc sets.MMORPG pvp means how much learn about your character and how fast you can use your hand while in pvp.I m not a non-proc player but i hate that kind of no skill sets.close your eyes and let your set do your work for ya.

neferpitou73

Just got hit with a 44k Plague breaker proc. Totally a completely balanced set!

Gilvoth

neferpitou73 wrote: »

Just got hit with a 44k Plague breaker proc. Totally a completely balanced set!

the set is designed to stop zergs.
were you in a zerg?

ResidentContrarian

Gilvoth wrote: »

neferpitou73 wrote: »

Just got hit with a 44k Plague breaker proc. Totally a completely balanced set!

the set is designed to stop zergs.
were you in a zerg?

Come now, we can't call them zergs...we have to call them "organized groups" to make them seem different, even though it makes no difference to the side being chased down and outnumbered.

Don't you know, an organized group is different! More skilled, more experienced, more pro, more ...

Certainly, the set must be unbalanced if an organized group cannot handle it, but regulars can! It's unbalanced because it just is!

Stx

Gilvoth wrote: »

neferpitou73 wrote: »

Just got hit with a 44k Plague breaker proc. Totally a completely balanced set!

the set is designed to stop zergs.
were you in a zerg?

Circumstances don't matter, if a set is even capable of hitting for 44k it's completely broken.

ResidentContrarian

Stx wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

neferpitou73 wrote: »

Just got hit with a 44k Plague breaker proc. Totally a completely balanced set!

the set is designed to stop zergs.
were you in a zerg?

Circumstances don't matter, if a set is even capable of hitting for 44k it's completely broken.

This set is broken, but multiple VD proc is not?

Plaguebreak is only effective when you purge, granted, some players might also think the DoT portion is overtuned when placed with siege and stacked or its duration too long.

That said, it's still a set that mainly punishes purge spam.

IF a group cannot heal enough to overcome damage without purge, the problem really lies with the group, considering I've seen random PUGs do it and destroy even an emperor with his group running these new sets while outnumbered.

Greasytengu

ResidentContrarian wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

neferpitou73 wrote: »

Just got hit with a 44k Plague breaker proc. Totally a completely balanced set!

the set is designed to stop zergs.
were you in a zerg?

Come now, we can't call them zergs...we have to call them "organized groups" to make them seem different, even though it makes no difference to the side being chased down and outnumbered.

Don't you know, an organized group is different! More skilled, more experienced, more pro, more ...

Certainly, the set must be unbalanced if an organized group cannot handle it, but regulars can! It's unbalanced because it just is!

some of you lot call any group larger than 4 a zerg

ResidentContrarian

Greasytengu wrote: »

ResidentContrarian wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

neferpitou73 wrote: »

Just got hit with a 44k Plague breaker proc. Totally a completely balanced set!

the set is designed to stop zergs.
were you in a zerg?

Come now, we can't call them zergs...we have to call them "organized groups" to make them seem different, even though it makes no difference to the side being chased down and outnumbered.

Don't you know, an organized group is different! More skilled, more experienced, more pro, more ...

Certainly, the set must be unbalanced if an organized group cannot handle it, but regulars can! It's unbalanced because it just is!

some of you lot call any group larger than 4 a zerg

4 people can spread out easier, so no problem

jerj6925

As with all things the new armor sets will draw in a lot of people to farm them showing an increase in the PVP part of the game and then after enough time has gone by they will nerf the armor sets.

xDeusEJRx

I remember when people thought procs were balanced now because they used scaling, now we have procs that do in the 20k-40ks of damage hitting higher than any ulti can pull in pvp. How on earth zos never thought to put a cap on how much a proc could ever dish out is beyond me. I'm just glad no proc is back

YandereGirlfriend

IMO, Hrothgar should not deal AoE damage - it should deal high single-target damage to tanks (you know, in order to counter actual tanks).

Dark Convergence is an interesting idea but right now it is basically the "Noob Tube" of ESO.

Plaguebreak is another interesting idea but it creates toxic interactions (such as killing yourself thanks to your Netch) and probably needs at least a cooldown placed on the set itself.

Stx

ResidentContrarian wrote: »

Stx wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

neferpitou73 wrote: »

Just got hit with a 44k Plague breaker proc. Totally a completely balanced set!

the set is designed to stop zergs.
were you in a zerg?

Circumstances don't matter, if a set is even capable of hitting for 44k it's completely broken.

This set is broken, but multiple VD proc is not?

Plaguebreak is only effective when you purge, granted, some players might also think the DoT portion is overtuned when placed with siege and stacked or its duration too long.

That said, it's still a set that mainly punishes purge spam.

IF a group cannot heal enough to overcome damage without purge, the problem really lies with the group, considering I've seen random PUGs do it and destroy even an emperor with his group running these new sets while outnumbered.

I also think vicious death is overpowered, that's why so many people use it.

I don't mind plaguebreak punishing purges. That's intuitive game design and you see that with things like unstable affliction in warcraft. The issue is how much the proc hits for. As you said, it should punish purge spam.. not one shot you for purging one time. I personally haven't seen it hit for 44k but anything higher than 8k to me considering it can't crit is too much.

Magio_

Greasytengu wrote: »

Some of you lot call any group larger than 4 a zerg

People have been accused of zerging people down in a Battleground, so even just 4 is enough lol

Emperor_ManBearPig

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

IMO, Hrothgar should not deal AoE damage - it should deal high single-target damage to tanks (you know, in order to counter actual tanks).

Dark Convergence is an interesting idea but right now it is basically the "Noob Tube" of ESO.

Plaguebreak is another interesting idea but it creates toxic interactions (such as killing yourself thanks to your Netch) and probably needs at least a cooldown placed on the set itself.

I totally agree with you. Hrothgar is so broken right now and so many people are running it, including me. I’m super tanky and can dish out high proc damage with this set.

Dark convergence is definitely a noob tube. It can easily be countered by block, roll dodge, RAT, mist form. It is a great Zerg buster though for killing noobs.

Plaguebreak definately screws over wardens with netch. We don’t run a purger in group anymore because of the sheer amount of damage the set can do to blow up a group. So right now, not having a purge spammer has eliminated that meta part of a group comp.

neferpitou73

Ok having played a couple times with these sets in the game I have to ask: what is the end meta of these sets? Literally every playstyle besides gankers is going to be impossible. Let's examine the individual sets:

Plague Breaker: Essentially makes any organized group play impossible. Not to mention prevents you from using several other sets and skills in the game, including:

Curse Eater
Earthgore
Purge/Cleanse
Templar Purge
Warden Netch

Hrothgar's: Eliminates tanky play. I'm not sure why they thought it was a good idea to make building tanky make you easier to kill. Yes tank meta is bad but you eliminate that by creating a trade-off between tankiness and damage not by making tankiness kill you.

Dark Convergence: An AOE pull that is the sole exception to the CC immunity in the game (that usually doesn't work anyway but that's besides the point). Again hindering organized group play.

So who benefits from all these sets? The only playstyle unaffected by these sets

Stx wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

neferpitou73 wrote: »

Just got hit with a 44k Plague breaker proc. Totally a completely balanced set!

the set is designed to stop zergs.
were you in a zerg?

Circumstances don't matter, if a set is even capable of hitting for 44k it's completely broken.

Precisely. I should mention that was (to my knowledge) with full group buffs like GG. We weren't even in combat, just running out of the door of a keep we just took.

ResidentContrarian wrote: »

Stx wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

neferpitou73 wrote: »

Just got hit with a 44k Plague breaker proc. Totally a completely balanced set!

the set is designed to stop zergs.
were you in a zerg?

Circumstances don't matter, if a set is even capable of hitting for 44k it's completely broken.

This set is broken, but multiple VD proc is not?

Plaguebreak is only effective when you purge, granted, some players might also think the DoT portion is overtuned when placed with siege and stacked or its duration too long.

That said, it's still a set that mainly punishes purge spam.

IF a group cannot heal enough to overcome damage without purge, the problem really lies with the group, considering I've seen random PUGs do it and destroy even an emperor with his group running these new sets while outnumbered.

Try standing on a ram with an organized defense pouring siege on you then come back and tell me that you don't need purge.

Again, I don't have a problem with them nerfing purge. I do have a problem with them adding a set that blows you up when you use a fundamental game mechanic. If you want to end purge spamming you increase the cost, reduce the number of effects cleansed or make it single target. And if you do those things you consider the consider the consequences of those changes in the game as already established.

ResidentContrarian

neferpitou73 wrote: »

Try standing on a ram with an organized defense pouring siege on you then come back and tell me that you don't need purge.

Again, I don't have a problem with them nerfing purge. I do have a problem with them adding a set that blows you up when you use a fundamental game mechanic. If you want to end purge spamming you increase the cost, reduce the number of effects cleansed or make it single target. And if you do those things you consider the consider the consequences of those changes in the game as already established.

I do, but then again I roll and heal a lot and its true not everyone can do that because that requires a certain kind of build

Abyssmol

Emperor_ManBearPig wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

IMO, Hrothgar should not deal AoE damage - it should deal high single-target damage to tanks (you know, in order to counter actual tanks).

Dark Convergence is an interesting idea but right now it is basically the "Noob Tube" of ESO.

Plaguebreak is another interesting idea but it creates toxic interactions (such as killing yourself thanks to your Netch) and probably needs at least a cooldown placed on the set itself.

I totally agree with you. Hrothgar is so broken right now and so many people are running it, including me. I’m super tanky and can dish out high proc damage with this set.

Dark convergence is definitely a noob tube. It can easily be countered by block, roll dodge, RAT, mist form. It is a great Zerg buster though for killing noobs.

Plaguebreak definately screws over wardens with netch. We don’t run a purger in group anymore because of the sheer amount of damage the set can do to blow up a group. So right now, not having a purge spammer has eliminated that meta part of a group comp.

This is great news. Plaguebreak is forcing groups not to abuse purge. The way it was before groups would use purge at least once every 2 seconds.

neferpitou73

ResidentContrarian wrote: »

neferpitou73 wrote: »

Try standing on a ram with an organized defense pouring siege on you then come back and tell me that you don't need purge.

Again, I don't have a problem with them nerfing purge. I do have a problem with them adding a set that blows you up when you use a fundamental game mechanic. If you want to end purge spamming you increase the cost, reduce the number of effects cleansed or make it single target. And if you do those things you consider the consider the consequences of those changes in the game as already established.

I do, but then again I roll and heal a lot and its true not everyone can do that because that requires a certain kind of build

Thank you for insulting our healers. If you roll out of the siege you are not staying on the ram

I've been playing for 3 years; I have never met a group that doesn't get pressured by siege on the ram and I was in (what was once) one of the best ball groups in Raven DC. So either you've discovered some magical method of not taking siege damage...or you're not standing on the ram.

Regardless, I'm going to stop discussing this with you since neither of us is going to convince the other.

ResidentContrarian

neferpitou73 wrote: »

ResidentContrarian wrote: »

neferpitou73 wrote: »

Try standing on a ram with an organized defense pouring siege on you then come back and tell me that you don't need purge.

Again, I don't have a problem with them nerfing purge. I do have a problem with them adding a set that blows you up when you use a fundamental game mechanic. If you want to end purge spamming you increase the cost, reduce the number of effects cleansed or make it single target. And if you do those things you consider the consider the consequences of those changes in the game as already established.

I do, but then again I roll and heal a lot and its true not everyone can do that because that requires a certain kind of build

Thank you for insulting our healers. If you roll out of the siege you are not staying on the ram

I've been playing for 3 years; I have never met a group that doesn't get pressured by siege on the ram and I was in (what was once) one of the best ball groups in Raven DC. So either you've discovered some magical method of not taking siege damage...or you're not standing on the ram.

Regardless, I'm going to stop discussing this with you since neither of us is going to convince the other.

You do know when you roll and dodge, direction and actual movement doesn't matter right?

You do know you can roll towards the door right?

You do know on door there is a gap where you will still be on siege and out of the range of oils, right?

Just asking because the response makes zero sense. Rolling does not mean you have to move out of the range of siege.

Also, I am not bashing any healers. Many type of healing builds are effective in the game.

But the fact is, if you are in a ball group and they built specifically for tanky play, which you probably have considering Hrothgar post, then that means that you cannot have you stam pool as high or stam regen as someone that did not. You also will not heal as much, because you cannot boost your stats otherwise.

That's simply the game mechanics at work and "balance." It has nothing to do with any personal viewpoint on the matter.

There are only a set number of actions and stat configurations in the game. Don't worry I have seen nearly all of them

spacefracking

neferpitou73 wrote: »

ResidentContrarian wrote: »

neferpitou73 wrote: »

Try standing on a ram with an organized defense pouring siege on you then come back and tell me that you don't need purge.

Again, I don't have a problem with them nerfing purge. I do have a problem with them adding a set that blows you up when you use a fundamental game mechanic. If you want to end purge spamming you increase the cost, reduce the number of effects cleansed or make it single target. And if you do those things you consider the consider the consequences of those changes in the game as already established.

I do, but then again I roll and heal a lot and its true not everyone can do that because that requires a certain kind of build

Thank you for insulting our healers. If you roll out of the siege you are not staying on the ram

I've been playing for 3 years; I have never met a group that doesn't get pressured by siege on the ram and I was in (what was once) one of the best ball groups in Raven DC. So either you've discovered some magical method of not taking siege damage...or you're not standing on the ram.

Regardless, I'm going to stop discussing this with you since neither of us is going to convince the other.

This is the point though. If the counter siege has gotten to the point where there are 4 oils, a couple of trebuchets, some lancers, and ballistae firing at a ball, then they need to reach their healing cap with a siege shield, or unball. Purging dot ticks every second shouldn't be an escape hatch for a 10 man to bulldoze down 50 people guarding a keep, without even needing to switch to ranged siege.

I see a lot of complaints in this thread about Plaguebreak. A few are valid, and the rest are missing the point that "organized group" should not mean "able to reliably 10 v 50". The skilled organized groups pull it off when inev dets are on the field. It requires breaking formation. Balling is the problem. There shouldn't be any conceivable way for a group to stay in ball formation constantly and remain invulnerable.

So, the problem is: how do you force ball groups to break formation, so they're individually 1-2-3 v 1-2-3ing people on places like inner keep or courtyard, and how do you make it so a 10 man has to bail on their ram if they have 4 oils, lancers, trebs, and ballistae on them from 40 defenders.

^^^^thats the problem to solve, Plaguebreak needs a tweak, as there are some valid complaints, but I have no sympathy for any who support the type of gameplay I have described above. Makes experienced players give up, let alone attracting new players.

Danse_Mayhem

Literally none of these new sets do anything to counter zergs.

Zerg = Swarms of uncoordinated players surrounding keeps, following the masses and likely attacking 4 different places on a keep to get in.

Not a zerg = Up to 12 players in a coordinated group, all on mic pushing the same direction and agenda.

Do any of these sets / strategies actually counter a zerg?

No. Dark convergence, proxy det, bomb blades and all this other stuff that apparently 'Counter' zergs wont do anything to an actual zerg. Sure they might take out a few players but an actual zerg will just absorb that with numbers and revive / out heal it.

What those sets DO do, very well, is demolish organised smaller groups of 4-6 players who are all just trying to be in one place. Any tether bomber will get much more success against a small group, or even a duo, than trying to bomb a zerg (an actual one) and these sets are no different. They decimate the idea of organised group play on the smallest level whilst enabling the zergs who can just slap them on and be even stronger in pvp.

Despite this, im all for zerging and big scale combat based on numbers - Its how the game has always been and likely always will be, but these new sets coming out that kill off smaller group play are just getting crazy now.

PhoenixGrey

They are not. Stop playing in a zerg lol

ResidentContrarian

Danse_Mayhem wrote: »

No. Dark convergence, proxy det, bomb blades and all this other stuff that apparently 'Counter' zergs wont do anything to an actual zerg. Sure they might take out a few players but an actual zerg will just absorb that with numbers and revive / out heal it.

What those sets DO do, very well, is demolish organised smaller groups of 4-6 players who are all just trying to be in one place. Any tether bomber will get much more success against a small group, or even a duo, than trying to bomb a zerg (an actual one) and these sets are no different. They decimate the idea of organised group play on the smallest level whilst enabling the zergs who can just slap them on and be even stronger in pvp.

Despite this, im all for zerging and big scale combat based on numbers - Its how the game has always been and likely always will be, but these new sets coming out that kill off smaller group play are just getting crazy now.

The sets won't do anything to a zerg? Tell that to AD faction on Greyhost PC NA @ Ash last night, they got wiped by a smaller number of DC. Granted there were many reasons for that, the new sets was very effective at turning the tide on them and is prompting a lot of them to come to these forums and complain about these sets. It's also bringing all the ball group leaders out to complain about them, so they must be fit for purpose somewhere.

"Organized groups of 4-6 players" don't actually get demolished by the sets if they actually play in a way that isn't balling up. The evidence for that is BG. The set is used all over the place and it's not exactly changing anything, except when used on a mag sorc -- something that always has and always will be overtuned in the BG environment in the first place.

I saw players cheesing with the sets in BGs, or attempting to, and it made little to no difference except the pull range bugging out and sometimes dropping over an empty space and killing. Still won the overall game with little problem, and no one on my side was running those sets.

And, even if players die, that says nothing about whether or not an overall objective is reached or if they are defeated. Dying in PvP is not the litmus test for success, and if dying in PvP is to you or anyone in a small group, then the solution is to run more healing and/or damage reduction + take actions that reduce the damage you will take.

Players live, players die. Why people think a small man or ball group shouldn't have to face the same problems as a solo player in the game is beyond me at this point.

divnyi

neferpitou73 wrote: »

Try standing on a ram with an organized defense pouring siege on you then come back and tell me that you don't need purge.

Maybe, just maybe, you shouldn't be standing on the ram when someone is pouring oil on you? Like, there are different types of sieges with different range and different speed just specifically for this purpose. If it is impossible to delay breaking into the walls with oil, then the base game mechanics aren't working properly.

Danse_Mayhem

ResidentContrarian wrote: »

Danse_Mayhem wrote: »

No. Dark convergence, proxy det, bomb blades and all this other stuff that apparently 'Counter' zergs wont do anything to an actual zerg. Sure they might take out a few players but an actual zerg will just absorb that with numbers and revive / out heal it.

What those sets DO do, very well, is demolish organised smaller groups of 4-6 players who are all just trying to be in one place. Any tether bomber will get much more success against a small group, or even a duo, than trying to bomb a zerg (an actual one) and these sets are no different. They decimate the idea of organised group play on the smallest level whilst enabling the zergs who can just slap them on and be even stronger in pvp.

Despite this, im all for zerging and big scale combat based on numbers - Its how the game has always been and likely always will be, but these new sets coming out that kill off smaller group play are just getting crazy now.

The sets won't do anything to a zerg? Tell that to AD faction on Greyhost PC NA @ Ash last night, they got wiped by a smaller number of DC. Granted there were many reasons for that, the new sets was very effective at turning the tide on them and is prompting a lot of them to come to these forums and complain about these sets. It's also bringing all the ball group leaders out to complain about them, so they must be fit for purpose somewhere.

"Organized groups of 4-6 players" don't actually get demolished by the sets if they actually play in a way that isn't balling up. The evidence for that is BG. The set is used all over the place and it's not exactly changing anything, except when used on a mag sorc -- something that always has and always will be overtuned in the BG environment in the first place.

I saw players cheesing with the sets in BGs, or attempting to, and it made little to no difference except the pull range bugging out and sometimes dropping over an empty space and killing. Still won the overall game with little problem, and no one on my side was running those sets.

And, even if players die, that says nothing about whether or not an overall objective is reached or if they are defeated. Dying in PvP is not the litmus test for success, and if dying in PvP is to you or anyone in a small group, then the solution is to run more healing and/or damage reduction + take actions that reduce the damage you will take.

Players live, players die. Why people think a small man or ball group shouldn't have to face the same problems as a solo player in the game is beyond me at this point.

Ok then look at it like this ;

Dark convergence - Attacks a groups ability to move as a unit
Hrothgars Chill - Attacks the ability to build somewhat tanky to survive being ganked
Plaguebreak - Attacks the ability to cleanse

They might seem like cool counters right, and even necessary ones? I would agree, but the issue is that these "zerg busting" sets can be used by those same zergs for much greater, or at very least equal effectiveness against smaller groups or solo players.

Same can be said for Volendrung. The way that an emperor cant pick it up suggests that it was brought in as a counter to the winning faction.. Except the faction with the emperor and the zerg online almost always ends up with it, enabling them to just sweep the map even faster. Different topic but same principle that again just doesnt work in practice. There have already been threads about ball groups / double ball groups all equipping dark convergence together and nuking whole groups from a distance with one AOE to proc the "balanced" set

I mentioned before that I have no problem with zergs - Its a numbers game after all and after all this time we should just accept that. I just dont thing bringing in new OP sets that target organised play more than zergs is the way forward.

relentless_turnip

Everyone keeps saying that Hrothgar punishes people for being tanky. It does the same percentage of damage to everyone, it's a set the promotes equality 😂 bugs aside. Which seems to be the chilled dot afterwards from the death recaps I've seen. I personally haven't seen it hit that hard... Yet...

I am enjoying these sets a lot 👏 I don't tend to group up though and when I do small-scale stuff we don't bunch up. So they haven't been an issue for me yet. I'm sure it will get worse, but I would say every fight I am already seeing layers on layers of these sets, so it's hard to imagine worse 😂

Emperor_ManBearPig

Hrothgar is so buggy right now and everyone and their mother is using this set it feels like. ZoS did a good job with toning down the proc set pvp meta with their scaling changes. However, a proc set that can deal 10k+ damage every 7 seconds in an AOE seems a bit cheeze mode. Why even run a purge state/damage build when you can just run Hrothgar?

Greasytengu

Emperor_ManBearPig wrote: »

Hrothgar is so buggy right now and everyone and their mother is using this set it feels like. ZoS did a good job with toning down the proc set pvp meta with their scaling changes. However, a proc set that can deal 10k+ damage every 7 seconds in an AOE seems a bit cheeze mode. Why even run a purge state/damage build when you can just run Hrothgar?

Why purge debuffs when you can purge the battlefield of enemies!