I fixed the map, now it's ZOS's turn.

Vylaera

EDIT: IMPORTANT PLEASE READ
This was the first edit I did, this idea however turned into an addon that is currently a WIP. You can find the new forum thread here
Everything forward is the original post.

My sleep schedule is completely reversed, and since ESO was down for maintenance over the night, and I didn't want to play any other games, I decided to fix the map since nearly all of the other fixes other people have made don't actually accurately fix it.

The map is too wide, foremost. Everyone knows the problem with the Skyrim-Morrowind border, but while making my fix, I discovered a few other problems I've never seen brought up, namely Summerset, Cyrodiil, High Rock, and Hammerfell.

I'm spoiler tagging all the images for easier viewing.

First, I downloaded the launch map from 2014, and downloaded the Anthology map, which is the most recent and up to date map of Tamriel, as well as the most detailed and highest resolution.
I then opened Paint.NET and matched them up as close as I could. This is when I noticed the map is too wide, so I had to match the maps up based on the shores of Northern Skyrim and Southern Elsweyr.
Ironically, the launch map is the most accurate iteration of the map.

Then I traced the borders, rivers, islands, and lakes of the anthology map. This took forever, but I had nothing better to do at 4am.

Then I added a semi-transparent white shadow under the outline to make it easier to see, and hid the anthology map layer.

Then I tried to find a current up to date map of ESO, but I couldn't. However, I did find this 2020 map with the blackwood zone borders drawn over it. Close enough. As you can see, it's atrocious.

After several hours of work cutting out zones, moving them, fixing the patches where they were with water and land, I got this. It matches up pretty well with the anthology map now.
I cut away Skuldafn because other zones also hide certain extended areas, and there's no consistency with the world map and the zone maps anyway (looking at Craglorn and Cyrodiil in particular. They both have completely different shapes between world and zone). Unfortunately, due to how the map is currently designed, there was nothing I could do to fix High Rock extending too far out. It's also worth noting that the Imperial City is in the wrong place, and therefore all of Cyrodiil is off, but like High Rock, there wasn't anything I could do to fix it unless I were to reshape the Cyrodiil zone to be more like it is in its Zone map. And after doing everything else, I didn't feel like it. Maybe if I was hired to fix the map, then I would certainly not leave anything unfinished, but alas, I am not.

And finally, here's my fixed map without the anthology map overlay, and a GIF comparing them directly to more easily see the changes made.

This took me about 5 hours. The map has been wrong for 7 years. 5 hours goes into 7 years 12,267 (twelve thousand two hundred and sixty seven!!!) times. There's no excuse for this. Can ZOS PLEASE FIX THE MAP ALREADY? Before it gets permanently botched because they lock in the current locations by adding more zones????? Like come on, how hard is it to set aside a day or two to fix the map and roll it out in a patch? I made this in Paint.NET for Vehk's sake, which is like default Windows MS Paint but with layers and better tools. The developers have the original project files and can edit it much faster and better than I can.

Ratzkifal

Already commented on this in another thread. This is amazing and even though it's not perfect yet it's already a major improvement and that it just took you 5 hours shows that this issue really should have been fixed already, especially since ZOS seems to be using the bad map as the base when making a zone.

Also going to tag @ZOS_Kevin because this is a long-standing issue that has only been met with bad or no communication so far. The only official statement we got was "the map looks bad because Tamriel's in-lore map makers are bad" and while that might be perfectly reasonable, it isn't an excuse for why we players should have an inaccurate map and even less of an excuse why ZOS should use an inaccurate map as a base for making a new zone.

KovalskyNestor

This is amazing! There is actually another problem with the map and the zones. Zones are not scaled properly in terms of size, and that's why some islands appear much bigger than in comparison to the bigger zones. When you try to place actual size of the zone on the map, it would leave the map with lots of free space and it will be inaccurate again. However I agree that they should use the map you created and later fix the actual position and size of the zones.

Supreme_Atromancer

Awesome work @BroughBreaux ; great job! I agree with you that Cyrodiil is poorly done - that weird arm in the North East doesn't occur in the playable region - it should be pretty much flush with the western border of Stonefalls, before running in a straight line to Bravil. Its pretty perplexing. I guess they originally scaled it wrong, and instead of fixing it, they just awkwardly stretched it out to meet the border.

Ratzkifal wrote: »

this is a long-standing issue that has only been met with bad or no communication so far. The only official statement we got was "the map looks bad because Tamriel's in-lore map makers are bad" and while that might be perfectly reasonable, it isn't an excuse for why we players should have an inaccurate map and even less of an excuse why ZOS should use an inaccurate map as a base for making a new zone.

"Nords are dumb" is how I paraphrase the response we got from the previous Loremaster on this issue. The problem with this was contrived explanations- after the fact- for things we really want you to get right in the first place is unsatisfying.

Vylaera

KovalskyNestor wrote: »

This is amazing!

Thank you!

KovalskyNestor wrote: »

When you try to place actual size of the zone on the map, it would leave the map with lots of free space and it will be inaccurate again

Very true, but the mountain ranges between zones cover those up well enough. I use Highly Detailed World Map in my game and it puts mountains between the gaps and works really well. Those Mountains are there in the zones anyway.

If you're talking about zone scaling, well that's unfixable. It's fine though. Cyrodiil and the chapters are all much larger than the other zones, and that makes sense. Maybe one day when they overhaul the base game zones (which they said they would do once all the map is filled in), they'll make them all scaled to Cyrodiil and add tons of more scenic countryside for screenshots.

Ratzkifal

Supreme_Atromancer wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

this is a long-standing issue that has only been met with bad or no communication so far. The only official statement we got was "the map looks bad because Tamriel's in-lore map makers are bad" and while that might be perfectly reasonable, it isn't an excuse for why we players should have an inaccurate map and even less of an excuse why ZOS should use an inaccurate map as a base for making a new zone.

"Nords are dumb" is how I paraphrase the response we got from the previous Loremaster on this issue. The problem with this was contrived explanations- after the fact- for things we really want you to get right in the first place is unsatisfying.

"Nords are dumb", he said, referring to the race of sailors that can be found in harbours all over Tamriel, as if accurate maps aren't a big part of navigation...

Lyserus

You good sir, are showing off what it's supposed to be done Bravo!

Vylaera

Speaking of Highly Detailed World Map, it showcases pretty glaringly the disparity between the world map and the zone map as you can see here.


If the shape of the zone on the world map was properly shaped, it could easily be readjusted to match up where it should actually sit on the map. The red outline here is where the Imperial City Isle is on the world map currently, and the black and white outline is the outline I made earlier from tracing the Anthology map.

mikemacon

that's kind of like using modern cartography to fix the maps of europe, africa, and asia from the middle ages.

keep in mind that any maps we see can be considered sourced from in-game sources, and just like everything else in elder scrolls lore, is subject to the unreliable narrator effect.

in other words, the maps don't need to be "fixed". they're broadly true in the same sense that the in-game lore (and therefore what we "know" about tamrielic history) is true.

in essence, they're "true-ish".

that said, what you did was epically cool - bravo zulu.

Ekzorka

Also we can see here the future problem with Bravil if a size of Cyrodiilic triangle will not be increased in size. 🙃

Supreme_Atromancer

mikemacon wrote: »

that's kind of like using modern cartography to fix the maps of europe, africa, and asia from the middle ages.

keep in mind that any maps we see can be considered sourced from in-game sources, and just like everything else in elder scrolls lore, is subject to the unreliable narrator effect.

in other words, the maps don't need to be "fixed". they're broadly true in the same sense that the in-game lore (and therefore what we "know" about tamrielic history) is true.

in essence, they're "true-ish".

that said, what you did was epically cool - bravo zulu.

I think this is a good response, but I disagree strongly.

The map doesn't look like its been designed to be deliberately "somewhat unreliable", but just utterly botched by poor handling, so an excuse like this feels like its being lazily hand-waived after the fact.

The unreliable narrator is an amazing device and used well, its a highlight of Elder Scrolls writing.

It loses its value when it becomes the go-to excuse for lore mistakes and poor handling.

Ratzkifal

mikemacon wrote: »

that's kind of like using modern cartography to fix the maps of europe, africa, and asia from the middle ages.

keep in mind that any maps we see can be considered sourced from in-game sources, and just like everything else in elder scrolls lore, is subject to the unreliable narrator effect.

in other words, the maps don't need to be "fixed". they're broadly true in the same sense that the in-game lore (and therefore what we "know" about tamrielic history) is true.

in essence, they're "true-ish".

that said, what you did was epically cool - bravo zulu.

There have been pretty accurate maps back in the middle ages too. It's only the badly drawn maps that got famous because of how silly they look and people thinking that everyone back then thought they were accurate, but go into an archive and look at some ancient maps and you'll see that they are definitely accurate ones around from that time too.

Also blaming the unreliable narrator doesn't work in this case because while in-universe a map maker looks at the zone and makes the map, in actuallity ZOS makes the world map first and then makes the zone (and then makes the zone specific map last). This means that in this case it's the narrator making the world unreliable, not the narrator being an unreliable source. ZOS is introducing errors and inconsistencies into the world because they are using a bad map and instead of fixing it, they are putting the unreliable narrator up as a strawman to hide behind.
Blacklight and the entire coastal area east of the Velothi mountains are definitely a thing because that is where house Redoran has its mainland. Since this area exists, a map including this area is automatically more reliable than a map that doesn't. Which means that ZOS should model the world and its zones after the most accurate map that exists instead of using the most unreliable one. And if they did, then Fort Virak would not be in Stonefalls and you would not be able to cross from the Rift to Stonefalls by going through the Blessed Crucible. But since they made their zones like that, ZOS is doing their game and its lore and by extension us a disservice.

Vylaera

Ratzkifal wrote: »

This means that in this case it's the narrator making the world unreliable, not the narrator being an unreliable source.

Very well put, I like that.

In any case, not to dogpile mikemacon, but all the world maps in all the previous ES games have been accurate and were not botched and given the unreliable narrator excuse like ESO's. TES IV Oblivion had a paper map and it didn't have any mistakes.

Frankly, I'd be embarrassed if I was in charge of the art world design team (or whatever it is that has domain over the maps) and after 7 years we were still using a terrible map that garners constant, and justified, criticism.

Ratzkifal

I think the stuff that really gets me here is not that the Telvanni peninsula looks different or the regions of Hammerfell that we have never seen before, but that the zones we are intimately familiar with (Cyrodiil, Skyrim) and the things we know there to be (Blacklight) are being mistreated here.
That and the possibility of this poor map management negatively impacting future releases the way it already has impacted current releases (underwhelming Summerset size, Stonefalls and the Rift being treated as neighbouring zones)

SeaGtGruff

The ESO map is accurate for its time.

Any differences between it and future maps are explained by... tectonic plate movements.

It's all those Dark Anchors, you see-- dropping out of the sky, digging into the ground, and pulling upward. Slippage was bound to happen sooner or later.

Ratzkifal

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

The ESO map is accurate for its time.

Any differences between it and future maps are explained by... tectonic plate movements.

It's all those Dark Anchors, you see-- dropping out of the sky, digging into the ground, and pulling upward. Slippage was bound to happen sooner or later.

You had me there for a moment, ngl xD

TX12001rwb17_ESO

The zone maps are accurate, the world map however is not, the arrogance of the High Elves may lead them to drawring their homeland on the map to be significantly larger then it actually is, on the world map Summerset appears to be as large as Vvardenfell, the truth is however its about the half the size but the High Elves wont admit it, we do see this problem on RL maps as well, observe....



Shocking isn't it, it seems the World Map of Tamriel suffers from the exact same problem, the biggest sinner would be none other then Craglorn which appears huge on the Tamriel map but the zone map says otherwise, if your going to scale Tamriel it is best to do it using the zone maps and not the Tamriel map because the zone maps are accurate.

SpaceElf

Ratzkifal wrote: »

Already commented on this in another thread. This is amazing and even though it's not perfect yet it's already a major improvement and that it just took you 5 hours shows that this issue really should have been fixed already, especially since ZOS seems to be using the bad map as the base when making a zone.

Also going to tag @ZOS_Kevin because this is a long-standing issue that has only been met with bad or no communication so far. The only official statement we got was "the map looks bad because Tamriel's in-lore map makers are bad" and while that might be perfectly reasonable, it isn't an excuse for why we players should have an inaccurate map and even less of an excuse why ZOS should use an inaccurate map as a base for making a new zone.

I think this edited map looks beautiful, but as a cartographer, maps are always going to have to compromise on at least one of these aspects: Distance, size, scale, area, or shape. Maps are inherently inaccurate by their limitations - spreading a three-dimensional object on a 2D plane will cause distortion. Combine that with what is likely primitive cartographic techniques that likely fit lore, and it makes sense for it to be off, and it's not necessarily a poor choice in design to go that route. Granted, this assumes Nirn is a sphere or ellipsoid.

I've always wondered what coordinate system or projection would work well for this world, to be honest.

There are valid arguments to be made for the design decisions taken by ZoS, is all I am saying.

As the saying goes, the best map is... a globe.

zelaminator

Unless the maps are so imprecise that we can't navigate, and they are not, there are better things for them to spend their time on

Ratzkifal

SpaceElf wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

Already commented on this in another thread. This is amazing and even though it's not perfect yet it's already a major improvement and that it just took you 5 hours shows that this issue really should have been fixed already, especially since ZOS seems to be using the bad map as the base when making a zone.

Also going to tag @ZOS_Kevin because this is a long-standing issue that has only been met with bad or no communication so far. The only official statement we got was "the map looks bad because Tamriel's in-lore map makers are bad" and while that might be perfectly reasonable, it isn't an excuse for why we players should have an inaccurate map and even less of an excuse why ZOS should use an inaccurate map as a base for making a new zone.

I think this edited map looks beautiful, but as a cartographer, maps are always going to have to compromise on at least one of these aspects: Distance, size, scale, area, or shape. Maps are inherently inaccurate by their limitations - spreading a three-dimensional object on a 2D plane will cause distortion. Combine that with what is likely primitive cartographic techniques that likely fit lore, and it makes sense for it to be off, and it's not necessarily a poor choice in design to go that route. Granted, this assumes Nirn is a sphere or ellipsoid.

I've always wondered what coordinate system or projection would work well for this world, to be honest.

There are valid arguments to be made for the design decisions taken by ZoS, is all I am saying.

As the saying goes, the best map is... a globe.

I don't think I agree on that. Suspension of disbelief holds for me on that front. A fictional world is allowed to hand perfectly ideal maps to players because it is not necessarily restricted by the things that are true for our world. We don't even know if Nirn is flat or a sphere! It's likely a sphere simply because of all the weird effects that appear in flat geometry, like ships never disappearing behind the horizon, but what we don't know is Nirn's true size and how much it curves and thus we also don't know how much it distorts on a map. Telling us how large the Nirn is would also demystify the world a bit, so I'm not sure I'd even want to know the answer to that.

Also, remember that since this is fiction it's the map makers that make the world, not the other way around. So there must be a true map around that serves as the basis for what is real and then from that, if you wanted to make a map that is unreliable by design, you make an intentionally distorted map. But such a map would still not include the mistakes our current map has! For starters Skuldafn would not cover up the city of Blacklight, and anyone with two eyes in their head can see that if you look north of Windhelm there is actually more snow and mountains still, and not the ocean like our current map suggests. That has nothing to do with distance, size, scale, area, or shape. That has everything to do with no two things can occupy the same space at the same time and even the worst mapmaker would realize that they made a mistake if they can't fit in one of the places they still need to fit in because something else is already drawn there.

If the unreliable map was made well, I would be a fan. In this old video at 6:24 you can see what maps in ESO used to look like. If our maps were in that old style, had landmarks drawn in them with nothing but their relative directions as the only point of reference, and distances completely screwed up because there was no way of measuring the distances accurately, then I would be on board, because then it would be clear that the map has nothing to do with actual area, shape, distance, size or scale of the world. But I think it's pretty clear given the way how all the current zones fit neatly into each other like a puzzle that ZOS does use the unreliable map as gospel, and in certain areas it really shows.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlEipFtHw7o&ab_channel=IGN

Ratzkifal

zelaminator wrote: »

Unless the maps are so imprecise that we can't navigate, and they are not, there are better things for them to spend their time on

@zelaminator Please navigate to the city of Blacklight using our current map. Or navigate from Windhelm to Winterhold. Also OP has shown that it literally only takes two days to fix all this and ZOS has had 7 years. The poorly drawn map has lead to issues already and it will lead to more issues the longer it remains inaccurate.

Supreme_Atromancer

Ratzkifal wrote: »

such a map would still not include the mistakes our current map has! For starters Skuldafn would not cover up the city of Blacklight, and anyone with two eyes in their head can see that if you look north of Windhelm there is actually more snow and mountains still, and not the ocean like our current map suggests. That has nothing to do with distance, size, scale, area, or shape. That has everything to do with no two things can occupy the same space at the same time and even the worst mapmaker would realize that they made a mistake if they can't fit in one of the places they still need to fit in because something else is already drawn there.

@SpaceElf what Ratzkifal wrote here is the crux of the problem for me. There seems to be a tendency to write the issues we have off with explanations like mapping technology, unreliable narrator, changing geography and all sorts of stuff but its clear to see that none of these things were intended by the designers - they've simply made a lot of bloopers and haven't given the world the care that a lot of people coming from the Elder Scrolls games for lore and exploration tend to expect. Most of us are OK with some degree of license or rationalisation to make it all work - that's not the issue. But its important that they get it largely right, and recognise and work to address where they've simply gotten it wrong. This is a world we love and have enjoyed exploring and the simple fact is zos inherited an already installed -and passionate fanbase who came because they want to explore that world.

zelaminator wrote: »

Unless the maps are so imprecise that we can't navigate, and they are not, there are better things for them to spend their time on

Is "better things" just the things that you, yourself find important? Because the map and the world stuff happens to be pretty important to a lot of us. The franchise is known for its world-building and exploration so it shouldn't be shocking to learn that we want them to get this stuff right. As posters above have pointed out, the map is the promise to allow us to "explore all of Tamriel", and its alarming to see the developers seem to obliterate regions of a world we've been dreaming about exploring forever by a map that does nothing but demonstrate that maybe they don't get it. For me, its about exploring the world, too. If we know this region connects to that one, it suggests story to explore and gives personality to the world. The Elder Scrolls is *about Tamriel* - the world has always been the main character, and its important they git it right.

That was a big appeal for a huge amount of people who bought into this game - people ZOS inherited, and who helped launch this game to success. So, yes, the small things we're appealing to ZOS to please get right ARE just as important to a game about Tamriel as the pages and pages of complaints about performance, balance, meta, housing, development philosophy and so on.

zelaminator

Supreme_Atromancer wrote: »

Is "better things" just the things that you, yourself find important? Because the map and the world stuff happens to be pretty important to a lot of us. The franchise is known for its world-building and exploration so it shouldn't be shocking to learn that we want them to get this stuff right. As posters above have pointed out, the map is the promise to allow us to "explore all of Tamriel", and its alarming to see the developers seem to obliterate regions of a world we've been dreaming about exploring forever by a map that does nothing but demonstrate that maybe they don't get it. For me, its about exploring the world, too. If we know this region connects to that one, it suggests story to explore and gives personality to the world. The Elder Scrolls is *about Tamriel* - the world has always been the main character, and its important they git it right.

That was a big appeal for a huge amount of people who bought into this game - people ZOS inherited, and who helped launch this game to success. So, yes, the small things we're appealing to ZOS to please get right ARE just as important to a game about Tamriel as the pages and pages of complaints about performance, balance, meta, housing, development philosophy and so on.

I never said that it was irrelevant, or should not be looked at/fixed.. I just said that there are more important things to do before playing around with the world map

Meredy

zelaminator wrote: »

Supreme_Atromancer wrote: »

Is "better things" just the things that you, yourself find important? Because the map and the world stuff happens to be pretty important to a lot of us. The franchise is known for its world-building and exploration so it shouldn't be shocking to learn that we want them to get this stuff right. As posters above have pointed out, the map is the promise to allow us to "explore all of Tamriel", and its alarming to see the developers seem to obliterate regions of a world we've been dreaming about exploring forever by a map that does nothing but demonstrate that maybe they don't get it. For me, its about exploring the world, too. If we know this region connects to that one, it suggests story to explore and gives personality to the world. The Elder Scrolls is *about Tamriel* - the world has always been the main character, and its important they git it right.

That was a big appeal for a huge amount of people who bought into this game - people ZOS inherited, and who helped launch this game to success. So, yes, the small things we're appealing to ZOS to please get right ARE just as important to a game about Tamriel as the pages and pages of complaints about performance, balance, meta, housing, development philosophy and so on.

I never said that it was irrelevant, or should not be looked at/fixed.. I just said that there are more important things to do before playing around with the world map

You ignored the guy's first question.

Besides, the content within the game is handled by different dedicated people. People who work on the map art, wouldn't be bothered to work on Cyrodiil issues, for example. There isn't an overlap.

I would like to know what you had in mind by "better things".

zelaminator

Meredy wrote: »

zelaminator wrote: »

Supreme_Atromancer wrote: »

Is "better things" just the things that you, yourself find important? Because the map and the world stuff happens to be pretty important to a lot of us. The franchise is known for its world-building and exploration so it shouldn't be shocking to learn that we want them to get this stuff right. As posters above have pointed out, the map is the promise to allow us to "explore all of Tamriel", and its alarming to see the developers seem to obliterate regions of a world we've been dreaming about exploring forever by a map that does nothing but demonstrate that maybe they don't get it. For me, its about exploring the world, too. If we know this region connects to that one, it suggests story to explore and gives personality to the world. The Elder Scrolls is *about Tamriel* - the world has always been the main character, and its important they git it right.

That was a big appeal for a huge amount of people who bought into this game - people ZOS inherited, and who helped launch this game to success. So, yes, the small things we're appealing to ZOS to please get right ARE just as important to a game about Tamriel as the pages and pages of complaints about performance, balance, meta, housing, development philosophy and so on.

I never said that it was irrelevant, or should not be looked at/fixed.. I just said that there are more important things to do before playing around with the world map

You ignored the guy's first question.

Besides, the content within the game is handled by different dedicated people. People who work on the map art, wouldn't be bothered to work on Cyrodiil issues, for example. There isn't an overlap.

I would like to know what you had in mind by "better things".

I did not, because what I like was not relevant.. And yes there are different teams, so I believe that the art team has better things to do.. upgrade old models, upgrade old armor sets, fix clipping, floating armor, make hairstyles work with hats.. stuff like that.. I know that the map issues are annoying for a group of people.. we all have our issues like that.. but overall, it seems like a minor detail when you look at the big picture

Vylaera

SpaceElf wrote: »

Granted, this assumes Nirn is a sphere or ellipsoid.

Lore time

Nirn, and all the other Plane(t)s are infinite planes, which are actually flat. However, mortal minds can only comprehend infinite planes as spheres, and so we see planets in the void.

In any case, we have tons of other maps that are accurate and have been used in the Elder Scrolls series for decades. ZOS just botched the map and made up a really lame lore excuse because they're too lazy to fix it.

Ratzkifal

zelaminator wrote: »

Meredy wrote: »

zelaminator wrote: »

Supreme_Atromancer wrote: »

Is "better things" just the things that you, yourself find important? Because the map and the world stuff happens to be pretty important to a lot of us. The franchise is known for its world-building and exploration so it shouldn't be shocking to learn that we want them to get this stuff right. As posters above have pointed out, the map is the promise to allow us to "explore all of Tamriel", and its alarming to see the developers seem to obliterate regions of a world we've been dreaming about exploring forever by a map that does nothing but demonstrate that maybe they don't get it. For me, its about exploring the world, too. If we know this region connects to that one, it suggests story to explore and gives personality to the world. The Elder Scrolls is *about Tamriel* - the world has always been the main character, and its important they git it right.

That was a big appeal for a huge amount of people who bought into this game - people ZOS inherited, and who helped launch this game to success. So, yes, the small things we're appealing to ZOS to please get right ARE just as important to a game about Tamriel as the pages and pages of complaints about performance, balance, meta, housing, development philosophy and so on.

I never said that it was irrelevant, or should not be looked at/fixed.. I just said that there are more important things to do before playing around with the world map

You ignored the guy's first question.

Besides, the content within the game is handled by different dedicated people. People who work on the map art, wouldn't be bothered to work on Cyrodiil issues, for example. There isn't an overlap.

I would like to know what you had in mind by "better things".

I did not, because what I like was not relevant.. And yes there are different teams, so I believe that the art team has better things to do.. upgrade old models, upgrade old armor sets, fix clipping, floating armor, make hairstyles work with hats.. stuff like that.. I know that the map issues are annoying for a group of people.. we all have our issues like that.. but overall, it seems like a minor detail when you look at the big picture

And I think it's the other way around. The "big picture" has major content releases at its focus. These "minor details" decide whether a zone becomes a chapter or just a DLC. That, I think, is way way more important than if the hip plates on this style float if your character has maximum posterior dimensions and is wearing these kinds of pants with them.
The art team is not the zone team, but the art team is influencing the zone team in a very big way by letting this issue go unattended.

Vylaera

Spent the past 2 days completely remaking the map, just made a new discussion for it and a call to action at the bottom of the post, would love it if you guys checked it out.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/584604/i-remade-the-map-this-time-everything-is-perfect/p1?new=1

zelaminator

Ratzkifal wrote: »

zelaminator wrote: »

Meredy wrote: »

zelaminator wrote: »

Supreme_Atromancer wrote: »

Is "better things" just the things that you, yourself find important? Because the map and the world stuff happens to be pretty important to a lot of us. The franchise is known for its world-building and exploration so it shouldn't be shocking to learn that we want them to get this stuff right. As posters above have pointed out, the map is the promise to allow us to "explore all of Tamriel", and its alarming to see the developers seem to obliterate regions of a world we've been dreaming about exploring forever by a map that does nothing but demonstrate that maybe they don't get it. For me, its about exploring the world, too. If we know this region connects to that one, it suggests story to explore and gives personality to the world. The Elder Scrolls is *about Tamriel* - the world has always been the main character, and its important they git it right.

That was a big appeal for a huge amount of people who bought into this game - people ZOS inherited, and who helped launch this game to success. So, yes, the small things we're appealing to ZOS to please get right ARE just as important to a game about Tamriel as the pages and pages of complaints about performance, balance, meta, housing, development philosophy and so on.

I never said that it was irrelevant, or should not be looked at/fixed.. I just said that there are more important things to do before playing around with the world map

You ignored the guy's first question.

Besides, the content within the game is handled by different dedicated people. People who work on the map art, wouldn't be bothered to work on Cyrodiil issues, for example. There isn't an overlap.

I would like to know what you had in mind by "better things".

I did not, because what I like was not relevant.. And yes there are different teams, so I believe that the art team has better things to do.. upgrade old models, upgrade old armor sets, fix clipping, floating armor, make hairstyles work with hats.. stuff like that.. I know that the map issues are annoying for a group of people.. we all have our issues like that.. but overall, it seems like a minor detail when you look at the big picture

And I think it's the other way around. The "big picture" has major content releases at its focus. These "minor details" decide whether a zone becomes a chapter or just a DLC. That, I think, is way way more important than if the hip plates on this style float if your character has maximum posterior dimensions and is wearing these kinds of pants with them.
The art team is not the zone team, but the art team is influencing the zone team in a very big way by letting this issue go unattended.

So whether a map works well, is what separates DLC from Chapters.? That seems a little stretched.. I think you'll find more people annoyed by floating hip plates, than by a map with some inaccuracies

Vylaera

zelaminator wrote: »

So whether a map works well, is what separates DLC from Chapters.?

Yes, if there isn't enough space to fit a chapter on the wrong and botched map, it won't be made a chapter.

zelaminator wrote: »

I think you'll find more people annoyed by floating hip plates, than by a map with some inaccuracies

Here's an idea: they can fix both.

SeaGtGruff

Which map is "most accurate"? Arena was the first TES game, so shouldn't Arena's map carry the greatest weight? Have the later maps been compared and contrasted to Arena's to see how they stack up?

And we know that there have been at least a few geographical (nirnographical?) changes, such as the changes in and around Winterhold. Also cities have been moved and their spellings have changes.

Then there are all the changes in the flora, fauna, and people-- the changes in Argonians, Khajiiti, Orcs, Mudcrabs, Nix Hounds, and so on, from game to game.

I think it's best to let each game have its own identity and not get bent out of shape about things like one game's map being, well, bent out of the exact shape of another game's map. But that's just me.