Just started playing again, and the 'meta' is making me really concerned.

Celephantsylvius_Bornasfinmo

There are also some weird 'meta' choices in PvP....

I came across this on a stream which illustrates the lack of care of sets being deployed.

1) Notice the amount of necromancers dying (so the group is composed of this mostly)
2) Notice that one skill is used plus the new Plague Break Set

Enjoy..I found this ridiculous even if the users were having fun.
https://streamable.com/9kbyis

What is going on in combat design? Seriously?

Vevvev

Kadraeus wrote: »

I remember one dude who said you need 100k dps to do Vet dungeons and I'm genuinely confused as to how you'd even get to that

That's a bit over the top. It's more like 20k+ on a normal dummy and 30k+ on a Trial Dummy and I'd consider someone for veteran content.

starkerealm

Kadraeus wrote: »

I remember one dude who said you need 100k dps to do Vet dungeons and I'm genuinely confused as to how you'd even get to that

Short answer? You couldn't.

I mean, we've seen damage ceilings for 12 player content that would exceed 100k, but that's a tiny sliver of the players to begin with. But, a lot of that relies on group synergy that you simply couldn't achieve in dungeons. So, how could you do it? You can't. Maybe someday. Maybe with a broken set that's not calculating properly. But, generally speaking, that kind of damage output is simply not possible. I mean, if you had legitimate 100k dungeon runners, you'd be seeing them clearing final bosses in under 20s. So, yeah, that's not happening.

CasgarTheSomnolent

I'll let you in on a secret that hopefully will make you feel less worried and constrained: The PvE "meta" in ESO is written by trial nerds for trial nerds. It often has little to no applicability outside of standing in one place and hitting one thing over and over. High score DPS target dummy humping has become its own meta game within the game. Don't take it too seriously.

If you would like to do four-man veteran dungeon achievements or arenas (solo and four-man), just go ahead and get the idea of "meta" builds out of your head right now. You may learn something from them, but your job in those scenarios is to stay mobile, execute mechanics, handle multiple minor roles, and keep yourself alive and sustained to a large degree. With only four people, no one is an absolute specialist, and with one person, it's all on you. You need to tailor things to what gets the job done, not what's laid out exactly in a guide. And given that there are 24 base game dungeons, 22 DLC dungeons and counting, 2 solo arenas, and 2 four-man arenas, I'd say there's a crapton of difficult PvE stuff out there that isn't trials.

Unfortunately, as much as I love many of the ESO content creators, they all make the same mistake with their guides of conflating "trial meta" with "works everywhere" which is very confusing to the very people they're trying to help. As an example, I main a stamina nightblade, and I focus mainly on four-man DLC dungeon achievements. The king of stamina meta sets for years has been Relequen. And until this year, the second meta set was Advancing Yokeda. Those sets may parse brilliantly on a dummy or a big immobile dragon, but they're basically worthless in dungeons and arenas. Relequen's stacks are tied to the enemy they're on, so if there are a lot of enemies, they just get spread around and never build up to full. Advancing Yokeda requires melee attacks within a five-second window to keep its stacks up. That's just not feasible when you actually have to switch bars while moving around and in and out of melee range to avoid getting killed in a dungeon or arena. But I've never seen a single creator acknowledge that weakness of both those sets, and they are always marked as "Meta dungeon and trial" sets when dungeons and trials are about as far apart as you can get.

If you want a good starting point for vet dungeons, vet arenas, vet Craglorn trials, and honestly probably vet DLC trials (non-HM), look at the solo builds from creators. Honestly, I think the best resource of practical "solo" builds is Alcast, and I've looked all over the community. He includes solo, self-sustaining builds for every class combination in addition to the standard "meta" fare. And those are much better platforms to build off of and tweak to your needs. And then go out and try it out in real content with multiple enemies. Vet Maelstrom and Vet Vateshran will poke gaping holes in your build and playstyle if there are holes to be poked. You can skip the dummies until you just need to fine tune something later on.

merpins

Builds for the meta can be fun, but take time to get right and change constantly, so unless you have the funds in game to constantly change your build (god knows I don't despite playing since beta), you can just aim for fun builds. Get good at game mechanics, then you can make your own builds just fine without needing to follow the mainstream. Like a class? Play it. Like a skill? Use it. Then when you reach level 50, and eventually cp 160, go for a build that you like the idea of based on your playstyle. I used to like Eloquence, Molag Kena, and Spell Strategist back before Eloquence got changed. By no means was it meta, but it was fun.

Grandchamp1989

CasgarTheSomnolent wrote: »

I'll let you in on a secret that hopefully will make you feel less worried and constrained: The PvE "meta" in ESO is written by trial nerds for trial nerds. It often has little to no applicability outside of standing in one place and hitting one thing over and over. High score DPS target dummy humping has become its own meta game within the game. Don't take it too seriously.

If you would like to do four-man veteran dungeon achievements or arenas (solo and four-man), just go ahead and get the idea of "meta" builds out of your head right now. You may learn something from them, but your job in those scenarios is to stay mobile, execute mechanics, handle multiple minor roles, and keep yourself alive and sustained to a large degree. With only four people, no one is an absolute specialist, and with one person, it's all on you. You need to tailor things to what gets the job done, not what's laid out exactly in a guide. And given that there are 24 base game dungeons, 22 DLC dungeons and counting, 2 solo arenas, and 2 four-man arenas, I'd say there's a crapton of difficult PvE stuff out there that isn't trials.

Unfortunately, as much as I love many of the ESO content creators, they all make the same mistake with their guides of conflating "trial meta" with "works everywhere" which is very confusing to the very people they're trying to help. As an example, I main a stamina nightblade, and I focus mainly on four-man DLC dungeon achievements. The king of stamina meta sets for years has been Relequen. And until this year, the second meta set was Advancing Yokeda. Those sets may parse brilliantly on a dummy or a big immobile dragon, but they're basically worthless in dungeons and arenas. Relequen's stacks are tied to the enemy they're on, so if there are a lot of enemies, they just get spread around and never build up to full. Advancing Yokeda requires melee attacks within a five-second window to keep its stacks up. That's just not feasible when you actually have to switch bars while moving around and in and out of melee range to avoid getting killed in a dungeon or arena. But I've never seen a single creator acknowledge that weakness of both those sets, and they are always marked as "Meta dungeon and trial" sets when dungeons and trials are about as far apart as you can get.

If you want a good starting point for vet dungeons, vet arenas, vet Craglorn trials, and honestly probably vet DLC trials (non-HM), look at the solo builds from creators. Honestly, I think the best resource of practical "solo" builds is Alcast, and I've looked all over the community. He includes solo, self-sustaining builds for every class combination in addition to the standard "meta" fare. And those are much better platforms to build off of and tweak to your needs. And then go out and try it out in real content with multiple enemies. Vet Maelstrom and Vet Vateshran will poke gaping holes in your build and playstyle if there are holes to be poked. You can skip the dummies until you just need to fine tune something later on.

This is very good observations.

I have seen similar. The “one size fits all” is just not good.

In Many trials you got long phases of stack and burn, so when you stand still and burn 80 million hp you want to optimize by using the dummy. Sets like relequen, sioria, domihause etc are amazing for this.

In Many dungeon dlc hardmodes you move around -all the time- so you need to be able to put out as much damage while being mobile. Sets that require you to be stationary are wasted in these fight.

Like fang Lair hardmodes or RPB doing dmg while dodging walls and killing adds.
Medusa, FG, MS, maw etc are often much better options.

Same problems I see with tanks.
People Think the yolna-pa works on everything.
Then they go into vBRP without purge and they melt, while only keeping taunt on half the stuff.

Instead if they went in with something like Leeching and Wyrd their survivability would increase 10x and they can help the team by you know.. not dying, while keeping taunt on almost everything.

Same for healers.. I dont have count in how Many times I que with 2 stam DDs and the healer insist on wearing hollowfang or worms, which is pretty much a complete waste.
“But the guide said SPC-Hollow and symphony is great”
Yes it is, for trials which is 99% mag groups.

Not for a stamina based dungeon run…