[Improve the game] Ideas about dungeon finder

Jazraena

Noctume wrote: »

I really can't stand DPS players who tag tank or heal in dungeon finder just to tag quickly!
When you come across this kind of players and you come across DLC dungeons it becomes complex and unmanageable because 90% of the time they rush without caring about the others player of the group !

It would be necessary that the dungeon finder blocks the fact of tag tank or healer if one does not respect certain restrictions:

• Tank : have a sword and shield equipped and a HP cap (30-35k for normal and more for vet) and minimal resistances (base for normal and vet) as well as the presence of at least one taunt skill
  
• Healer : have a recovery staff equipped with at least two healing skills (and more skills in vet)

Because this kind of experience with people who don't have the role and who ruin the tag of the other players who are forced to leave the dungeon because of people who don't respect the others and their role it becomes tiring.

Tell me what do you think about that idea in the comment below, tell me what should be your way to make things better rom your point of view and of course share your bad experience because of that kind of player to show to Zenimax dev that is a real problem.

I have a dedicated tank using Staves only and a dedicated Healer using Destruction Staves only. Both are fully Vet Capable, and not fake by any definition of the word. No DPS with medium and 1hshield and a taunt either; despite even that being enough in many case.

Don't force your limited playstyle perceptions on me.

Heck, a friend of mine does fine tanking - yes, an actual tank build - while double-baring a greatsword.

KhajiitLivesMatter

Noctume wrote: »

I really can't stand DPS players who tag tank or heal in dungeon finder just to tag quickly!
When you come across this kind of players and you come across DLC dungeons it becomes complex and unmanageable because 90% of the time they rush without caring about the others player of the group !

It would be necessary that the dungeon finder blocks the fact of tag tank or healer if one does not respect certain restrictions:

• Tank : have a sword and shield equipped and a HP cap (30-35k for normal and more for vet) and minimal resistances (base for normal and vet) as well as the presence of at least one taunt skill
  
• Healer : have a recovery staff equipped with at least two healing skills (and more skills in vet)

Because this kind of experience with people who don't have the role and who ruin the tag of the other players who are forced to leave the dungeon because of people who don't respect the others and their role it becomes tiring.

Tell me what do you think about that idea in the comment below, tell me what should be your way to make things better rom your point of view and of course share your bad experience because of that kind of player to show to Zenimax dev that is a real problem.

wont work - just save a gear u bought for 3k in dressing room - press 1 button - queue - press another button - still dd flaged as tank

KhajiitLivesMatter

Jazraena wrote: »

Noctume wrote: »

I really can't stand DPS players who tag tank or heal in dungeon finder just to tag quickly!
When you come across this kind of players and you come across DLC dungeons it becomes complex and unmanageable because 90% of the time they rush without caring about the others player of the group !

It would be necessary that the dungeon finder blocks the fact of tag tank or healer if one does not respect certain restrictions:

• Tank : have a sword and shield equipped and a HP cap (30-35k for normal and more for vet) and minimal resistances (base for normal and vet) as well as the presence of at least one taunt skill
  
• Healer : have a recovery staff equipped with at least two healing skills (and more skills in vet)

Because this kind of experience with people who don't have the role and who ruin the tag of the other players who are forced to leave the dungeon because of people who don't respect the others and their role it becomes tiring.

Tell me what do you think about that idea in the comment below, tell me what should be your way to make things better rom your point of view and of course share your bad experience because of that kind of player to show to Zenimax dev that is a real problem.

I have a dedicated tank using Staves only and a dedicated Healer using Destruction Staves only. Both are fully Vet Capable, and not fake by any definition of the word. No DPS with medium and 1hshield and a taunt either; despite even that being enough in many case.

Don't force your limited playstyle perceptions on me.

Heck, a friend of mine does fine tanking - yes, an actual tank build - while double-baring a greatsword.

yea this weird builds are often capable of actually tanking and healing but if this is all u can ur still not a good tank cause in eso tanks and healers are buff bots and the most buffs u get if a tank has atleast 1 snb and a healer atleast 1 healing wand

zelaminator

Larcomar wrote: »

Noctume wrote: »

Larcomar wrote: »

I suppose it's that time of the day again. I think you're conflating two separate problems : rushers and "fake tanks." Stopping rushers queing as a tank isn't going to make them stop rushing. When they finally get in the damn dungeon, they're going to want to get it done at warp speed.

As to fake tanks? You not only don't need a tank in base game normals, you wouldn't really want one. They don't do any damage. And half the groups running them put out about 10k between them. All you really need to tank a normal is inner fire, a source of breach and some basic resists / HP.

Vets, dlcs, sure that's a different kettle of fish. But most of these posts seem to be peopel companining about normals. But liek I say, I think what they're really complaining about is rushers.

Was speaking mostly of normal DLC and vet dungeon with the random queue

Don't know if I have a bad luck or something but 75% of my random dungeon are DLC's (normal or vet) and 80% in normal dungeon I have a fake tank on DLC's runs. For a lot on normal DLC's dungeon, tank is quite needed because of packs and bosses which still have hard dmg mecanics.
Or separate DLC's Dungeon from the random queue... don't know but it's quite a pain to have runs ruined because of that

Yeah, I can appreciate that having a fake tank in one of those would be a problem. A lot of people report that they have this "bad luck." I suspect it's not bad luck at all - more likely there aren't many people who are going to choose to run those dungeons and dungeon finder is using the people asking for random dungeons to fill groups out for those who do.

A problem which is probably exacerbated by .... people like me I can't be the only person who cancelled ESO+ because I'm not going to pay £8.99 a month to be penalised with DLCs in my RND queue... Conversely, I get a large number of low level groups, doing BC, FG etc, often running the quest.

I don't know how it works exactly, but I'm guessing that DF starts with the people who've requested a particular dungeon then fills their group out with people in the RND queue. And it's presumably going to assign people who don't have ESO+ to the basegame dungeons, leaving people who do pay getting a disproportionate number of DLCs....

They really should separate out the queues; an awful lot of people just want an RND for the transmutes, and I'm not sure forcing them into DLCs is in anyone's interests. Until they do, if you *want* DLC's - or still need to run vets - I'd suggest you do then in a guild group; I run them like that during ESO+ trials etc and it's alot less painful.

If you don't, however, I'd suggest you dump ESO+. It makes life alot easier. There is ofc the craft bag but, once you realise that 90% of the stuff you pick up is crap you won't ever need and just auto dump it to junk, it's pretty straighforward. I honestly don't notice not having it anymore.

That doesn't ofc solve the fake tank issue. I ran a bunch of dungeons on a healer alt I was levelling up for the skill pts a while back; I realised after the third dungeon I was going to have tank, heal and probably dps the lot of them, and ended up just slotting a taunt because it was obvious noone else had one.

After that little experience, I just go in as a tank now. You can tank basegame D's just with inner fire and a source of breach but I stick my toons in heavy armor, if only out of laziness; it just makes you pretty impervious to damage. I used to use snb on them all until I realised that you don't really need either the skills or the passives and it crippled you dps. Silver leash is handy, but it's usually quicker to just kill the mob and nowadays I prefer - if I have one - to slot a group heal because if you get low levels, they may not have a self heal. And they love to stand in red....

Maybe that makes me part of the problem. But personally, rather than get stuck with someone who isn't even going to *try* to tank the dungeon and ending up having to do it myself by default, I'd rather go in set up for it and do it properly. Or at least make some effort to do it properly. I think it makes for better groups but sure, YMMV.

You're still going to get rushers but I find - most of the time - if you point out someones on the quest they're actually reasonable. And if they're not, just go at the pace of the quester. The rushers don't always end up dying when they charge ahead, but it's quite satisfying when they do....

KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »

Jazraena wrote: »

Noctume wrote: »

I really can't stand DPS players who tag tank or heal in dungeon finder just to tag quickly!
When you come across this kind of players and you come across DLC dungeons it becomes complex and unmanageable because 90% of the time they rush without caring about the others player of the group !

It would be necessary that the dungeon finder blocks the fact of tag tank or healer if one does not respect certain restrictions:

• Tank : have a sword and shield equipped and a HP cap (30-35k for normal and more for vet) and minimal resistances (base for normal and vet) as well as the presence of at least one taunt skill
  
• Healer : have a recovery staff equipped with at least two healing skills (and more skills in vet)

Because this kind of experience with people who don't have the role and who ruin the tag of the other players who are forced to leave the dungeon because of people who don't respect the others and their role it becomes tiring.

Tell me what do you think about that idea in the comment below, tell me what should be your way to make things better rom your point of view and of course share your bad experience because of that kind of player to show to Zenimax dev that is a real problem.

I have a dedicated tank using Staves only and a dedicated Healer using Destruction Staves only. Both are fully Vet Capable, and not fake by any definition of the word. No DPS with medium and 1hshield and a taunt either; despite even that being enough in many case.

Don't force your limited playstyle perceptions on me.

Heck, a friend of mine does fine tanking - yes, an actual tank build - while double-baring a greatsword.

yea this weird builds are often capable of actually tanking and healing but if this is all u can ur still not a good tank cause in eso tanks and healers are buff bots and the most buffs u get if a tank has atleast 1 snb and a healer atleast 1 healing wand

Buff bots.. That's what some players think it seems.. To me, a tank is onr eho can taunt and take hits.. if he can do damage too, all the better.. you don't need sword and shield to taunt anyway.. same for healers.. they can do all the damage they like, as long as they mend out wounds too.. they don't need to stack buffs for you, that has never been their prime purpose

KhajiitLivesMatter

zelaminator wrote: »

Larcomar wrote: »

Noctume wrote: »

Larcomar wrote: »

I suppose it's that time of the day again. I think you're conflating two separate problems : rushers and "fake tanks." Stopping rushers queing as a tank isn't going to make them stop rushing. When they finally get in the damn dungeon, they're going to want to get it done at warp speed.

As to fake tanks? You not only don't need a tank in base game normals, you wouldn't really want one. They don't do any damage. And half the groups running them put out about 10k between them. All you really need to tank a normal is inner fire, a source of breach and some basic resists / HP.

Vets, dlcs, sure that's a different kettle of fish. But most of these posts seem to be peopel companining about normals. But liek I say, I think what they're really complaining about is rushers.

Was speaking mostly of normal DLC and vet dungeon with the random queue

Don't know if I have a bad luck or something but 75% of my random dungeon are DLC's (normal or vet) and 80% in normal dungeon I have a fake tank on DLC's runs. For a lot on normal DLC's dungeon, tank is quite needed because of packs and bosses which still have hard dmg mecanics.
Or separate DLC's Dungeon from the random queue... don't know but it's quite a pain to have runs ruined because of that

Yeah, I can appreciate that having a fake tank in one of those would be a problem. A lot of people report that they have this "bad luck." I suspect it's not bad luck at all - more likely there aren't many people who are going to choose to run those dungeons and dungeon finder is using the people asking for random dungeons to fill groups out for those who do.

A problem which is probably exacerbated by .... people like me I can't be the only person who cancelled ESO+ because I'm not going to pay £8.99 a month to be penalised with DLCs in my RND queue... Conversely, I get a large number of low level groups, doing BC, FG etc, often running the quest.

I don't know how it works exactly, but I'm guessing that DF starts with the people who've requested a particular dungeon then fills their group out with people in the RND queue. And it's presumably going to assign people who don't have ESO+ to the basegame dungeons, leaving people who do pay getting a disproportionate number of DLCs....

They really should separate out the queues; an awful lot of people just want an RND for the transmutes, and I'm not sure forcing them into DLCs is in anyone's interests. Until they do, if you *want* DLC's - or still need to run vets - I'd suggest you do then in a guild group; I run them like that during ESO+ trials etc and it's alot less painful.

If you don't, however, I'd suggest you dump ESO+. It makes life alot easier. There is ofc the craft bag but, once you realise that 90% of the stuff you pick up is crap you won't ever need and just auto dump it to junk, it's pretty straighforward. I honestly don't notice not having it anymore.

That doesn't ofc solve the fake tank issue. I ran a bunch of dungeons on a healer alt I was levelling up for the skill pts a while back; I realised after the third dungeon I was going to have tank, heal and probably dps the lot of them, and ended up just slotting a taunt because it was obvious noone else had one.

After that little experience, I just go in as a tank now. You can tank basegame D's just with inner fire and a source of breach but I stick my toons in heavy armor, if only out of laziness; it just makes you pretty impervious to damage. I used to use snb on them all until I realised that you don't really need either the skills or the passives and it crippled you dps. Silver leash is handy, but it's usually quicker to just kill the mob and nowadays I prefer - if I have one - to slot a group heal because if you get low levels, they may not have a self heal. And they love to stand in red....

Maybe that makes me part of the problem. But personally, rather than get stuck with someone who isn't even going to *try* to tank the dungeon and ending up having to do it myself by default, I'd rather go in set up for it and do it properly. Or at least make some effort to do it properly. I think it makes for better groups but sure, YMMV.

You're still going to get rushers but I find - most of the time - if you point out someones on the quest they're actually reasonable. And if they're not, just go at the pace of the quester. The rushers don't always end up dying when they charge ahead, but it's quite satisfying when they do....

KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »

Jazraena wrote: »

Noctume wrote: »

I really can't stand DPS players who tag tank or heal in dungeon finder just to tag quickly!
When you come across this kind of players and you come across DLC dungeons it becomes complex and unmanageable because 90% of the time they rush without caring about the others player of the group !

It would be necessary that the dungeon finder blocks the fact of tag tank or healer if one does not respect certain restrictions:

• Tank : have a sword and shield equipped and a HP cap (30-35k for normal and more for vet) and minimal resistances (base for normal and vet) as well as the presence of at least one taunt skill
  
• Healer : have a recovery staff equipped with at least two healing skills (and more skills in vet)

Because this kind of experience with people who don't have the role and who ruin the tag of the other players who are forced to leave the dungeon because of people who don't respect the others and their role it becomes tiring.

Tell me what do you think about that idea in the comment below, tell me what should be your way to make things better rom your point of view and of course share your bad experience because of that kind of player to show to Zenimax dev that is a real problem.

I have a dedicated tank using Staves only and a dedicated Healer using Destruction Staves only. Both are fully Vet Capable, and not fake by any definition of the word. No DPS with medium and 1hshield and a taunt either; despite even that being enough in many case.

Don't force your limited playstyle perceptions on me.

Heck, a friend of mine does fine tanking - yes, an actual tank build - while double-baring a greatsword.

yea this weird builds are often capable of actually tanking and healing but if this is all u can ur still not a good tank cause in eso tanks and healers are buff bots and the most buffs u get if a tank has atleast 1 snb and a healer atleast 1 healing wand

Buff bots.. That's what some players think it seems.. To me, a tank is onr eho can taunt and take hits.. if he can do damage too, all the better.. you don't need sword and shield to taunt anyway.. same for healers.. they can do all the damage they like, as long as they mend out wounds too.. they don't need to stack buffs for you, that has never been their prime purpose

in eso it has been there porpose

its cause staying in perma block and "only" tanking is easy
so since a very long time good tanks did more than tanking this means wearing buff sets instead of e.g. max life
than using more buff skills....


sure a tank which is only tanking is still a tank but in eso that person is not a good tank

Facefister

neferpitou73 wrote: »

You mean instead of creating arbitrary and cumbersome systems which will make completing dungeons a slog and turning people off from playing, ZOS should just create content that necessitates having all roles in a group? What a concept!

Healers are a dead-weight in 4-man content, especially DLC dungeons. In the dungeons, especially in the DLC vets and hardmodes, there are two kinds of damage:
-Damage which you can outheal/absorb as a DD with the usage of self-heals or ults
-Damage which instantly kills you
There is no gray area. And 3 DDs are better since you can either shorten the dangerous phases or the overall fight.

ResidentContrarian

I play a tank, but if I am forced to play the way your or anyone else wants, then I can either: [a] simply not tank, simply only play with friends, or [c] go play something else.

I can see your goals getting achieved already...

Pevey

I have a healer and several tanks. I enjoy playing them in vet dungeons. I don’t queue them in normals. They are not needed. In normals, I queue my dps as tanks. Because I have actual tanks, I know how to do the role. On normal, if you are playing to the mechanics and blocking when you should block, you don’t need more than 25k health as the tank. With or without a healer, including dlc.

Yes, some “tanks” do not even slot a taunt, and this is really annoying. I never run into this now since I queue as tank on normal. Some people will be selfish. That is a problem with humanity that zos cannot fix. But locking out tanks from group finder in normals based on some arbitrary factors will just make the problem worse. It will lock out people like me who actually do taunt and know the mechanics and will keep the boss still for a fast dungeon.

mmtaniac

Just add this requirement to dung finder only ,if you want enter with four dps enter manualy go to the instance by foot and enter dungeon. This should work more like that. Forcing roles are bad but without this some modes just dies. And better rewards for healers and tanks(much better not some crap gear parts). Not every player like to stay in city and spam lfg.

KhajiitLivesMatter

mmtaniac wrote: »

Just add this requirement to dung finder only ,if you want enter with four dps enter manualy go to the instance by foot and enter dungeon. This should work more like that. Forcing roles are bad but without this some modes just dies. And better rewards for healers and tanks(much better not some crap gear parts). Not every player like to stay in city and spam lfg.

you want better loot for tanks / healer? if u do it all u get is even more fake tanks and healer gg mission failes succesfuly

KhajiitLivesMatter

and if u wanna change loot increase the loot of the dds cause if it is worth to wait the time to find a healer / tank than players want fake roles

redlink1979

I understand your suggestions but I don't agree with the role requirements since this is a lot more complex and non linear that you might think because a "non traditional" dungeon group can work really well.

mmtaniac

This game have one problem not have traditional class role(this is problem mostly for new players) like other games where you need choose class to be tank ,healer or dps. Healing is easy to get for everyone that remove healer role ,tank can be everone who have working brain cells and know how to heal self that remove tank role that means every instance require 4dps only and this is problem for dung finder and some weaker or new player. Because new players seeing how long dungeon finder find your dungeon just ignore this and never do instance again . I love this game for not having specified role but new player not know how good this combat is and they leave game faster . Game lose players thanks to combat eso have not every player have enough patience to learn it.

preevious

Arkew wrote: »

Noctume wrote: »

I really can't stand DPS players who tag tank or heal in dungeon finder just to tag quickly!
When you come across this kind of players and you come across DLC dungeons it becomes complex and unmanageable because 90% of the time they rush without caring about the others player of the group !

It would be necessary that the dungeon finder blocks the fact of tag tank or healer if one does not respect certain restrictions:

• Tank : have a sword and shield equipped and a HP cap (30-35k for normal and more for vet) and minimal resistances (base for normal and vet) as well as the presence of at least one taunt skill
  
• Healer : have a recovery staff equipped with at least two healing skills (and more skills in vet)

Because this kind of experience with people who don't have the role and who ruin the tag of the other players who are forced to leave the dungeon because of people who don't respect the others and their role it becomes tiring.

Tell me what do you think about that idea in the comment below, tell me what should be your way to make things better rom your point of view and of course share your bad experience because of that kind of player to show to Zenimax dev that is a real problem.

more simply if you hate fake tank and fake healer

simply ask zos to add spirit buff/nerf like in pvp for each role

Tank spirit: increase max health and armor by X% , you can survive one shoot if you have more of 70 % of you hp, reduce all damage done by 95 % and healing done/shield given to other player by 75 %

DD: increase weapon and spell dmg by X%, increase critical damage done by X%, reduce all healing done/shield by 95 %

Healer: increase healing done by X%, increase buff duration given by X%, reduce all damage done by 95 % (except funnel Health because damage done are turned into heal for other player).

the problem is simply to tighten on the dd simply if they go on other role they simply lost all they'r damage, with this system each role need other for not go to the wipe.

but if you want more horrbile way to fix fake tank just add dps cap on boss like he can only take max 3% of is max health as damage per second and make execute extra damage the only way to bypass this mechanic.

Problem solven

writen by a tank/healer player so if your not happy dd go play true healer/tank role instead of plague the most overpopulated role in eso.

the proof with blackwood update , the legendary shadowfen node war who show we have to many dd population.

That's pretty clever. It should be implemented, but for dungeon finder only.

I don't mind premade 3/4 DDs runs. They don't impose anything on anyone.

On dungeon-finder groups, however, fake-somethings are a bane, and that idea should force them to behave like decent humans.

AcadianPaladin

I've seen loads of similar topic but have never seen a proposed solution that was not worse than the problem. Magic tanks w/o sword & board are a thing. If my healer has to eat a 95% reduction to damage to slot as a healer, she's not gonna pug.

The best solution to fake pug roles already exists. Vote to kick. Is it ideal? No way. But of all the solutions I've ever seen proposed, it is the least restrictive/onerous.

Jazraena

KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »

Jazraena wrote: »

Noctume wrote: »

I really can't stand DPS players who tag tank or heal in dungeon finder just to tag quickly!
When you come across this kind of players and you come across DLC dungeons it becomes complex and unmanageable because 90% of the time they rush without caring about the others player of the group !

It would be necessary that the dungeon finder blocks the fact of tag tank or healer if one does not respect certain restrictions:

• Tank : have a sword and shield equipped and a HP cap (30-35k for normal and more for vet) and minimal resistances (base for normal and vet) as well as the presence of at least one taunt skill
  
• Healer : have a recovery staff equipped with at least two healing skills (and more skills in vet)

Because this kind of experience with people who don't have the role and who ruin the tag of the other players who are forced to leave the dungeon because of people who don't respect the others and their role it becomes tiring.

Tell me what do you think about that idea in the comment below, tell me what should be your way to make things better rom your point of view and of course share your bad experience because of that kind of player to show to Zenimax dev that is a real problem.

I have a dedicated tank using Staves only and a dedicated Healer using Destruction Staves only. Both are fully Vet Capable, and not fake by any definition of the word. No DPS with medium and 1hshield and a taunt either; despite even that being enough in many case.

Don't force your limited playstyle perceptions on me.

Heck, a friend of mine does fine tanking - yes, an actual tank build - while double-baring a greatsword.

yea this weird builds are often capable of actually tanking and healing but if this is all u can ur still not a good tank cause in eso tanks and healers are buff bots and the most buffs u get if a tank has atleast 1 snb and a healer atleast 1 healing wand

There is nothing 'weird' or 'bad' about these builds. Random dungeons are entirely different environments than optimized trial premades. In said optimized trial premades, the combination of setups is the relevant bit, not the individual merits of Staff/Staff vs S&B/Staff or Destro/Destro vs Resto/Destro.

[Edit to remove flaming]

Eso101rus

As someone who plays several real tanks, in veteran content, the group finder issues are not just fake tanks, low dps, pvp builds, dds running Restos and snb, people who are unaware of mechanics are a far bigger problem. There is an option to deal with fake tanks, it’s the kick button. Sadly waiting for another tank that might be fake is an issue, but maybe Zos could think of rewarding real tanks somehow, or rewarding players for their dps/ healing performance?

Fake tanks are an issue, but bad DPS is not helping.

thorwyn

So put yooour pretty little hand in miiiiine!

Noctume

Eiregirl wrote: »

It has been mentioned a few times on the forums that there is only one way to drastically reduce the number of fake tanks, healers or even DD's in a random if not put an end to people faking their role. To do this ZOS would need to make every dungeon absolutely require an actual tank to take damage from the boss and multiple mobs that would quickly kill a healer or DD. This system would also require an actual healer to heal the tanks missing health back up and spread some out to the damage dealers that with the new system have learned they need to let the tank go first or they will absolutely die.

Under the new system these dungeons could still be cleared quickly but just not as fast as the current system because people would have to actually perform their roles.

If something like this was implemented for the dungeon finder only it would NOT put an end to people being able to solo dungeons. Which is what I would prefer because I like soloing and short grouping dungeons.

If something like this was implemented across the board for dungeons then it would put an end to soloing dungeons which is something I would not like to happen.

What would happen to the dungeon queues if this was implemented? Would this reduce the time for people to get in a dungeon from the queue or would it increase the time? I would hope more people would take up tanking and healing but honestly it would only help if there a lot of real tanks and healers hiding out there than I think. I would dust off my tanks and healers how about you?

A system like this would make it more interesting and more challenging but do people want that? I do but I don’t know about you.

The vast majority of players in dungeon finder seem to only want to get in and get out as fast as possible and do not seem to even want to be there to start with.

I do dungeons for fun and I like to make them challenging which is why I solo whatever I can and sometimes take a friend along for company and take an extra friend or two along on ones that I cannot. I like to loot and pick up heavy sacks and treasure chests. I have done my speed run achievements and don’t care to do them again unless someone I am running with needs it.

Dungeon finder is not something I use often but I would be all for a system like the one I described above where I would have fun again using my tank or healer in a role they were actually needed for. In the current system on normal dungeons 4 dps can clear everything and many vet dungeons. Vet dlc is a bit of a different story for some dungeons but even then if those 4 dps know what they are doing they can clear most of them if not all.

I really appreciate your comment because you understand the base problem I tried vaguely to point.

There is a problem of balance about DLC's dungeon and base dungeon. I would really love have a rnd dungeon finder without DLC's and an other one only DLC's (same for vet)
To let transmute farmer farm as they want and rushing as they want but let people who wants to do a dlc dungeon proprely (or almost) in normal do that without rush

I also had a bad xp as a tank, I have all roles on my account, I tagged as a tank to get my transmute but dps just rushed letting me at the entrance with the first pack without helping me.... Bad luck for me I get the famous Arx Corinium so i had 3 farmers only rushing to get the end boss... Why did they use the dungeon finder for that ?
When I have to farm a normal dungeon, I only port myself with my main inside from a shrine to get in ! I NEVER use the group finder to farm a dungeon ! WTF

I think I really don't get the idea behind that kind of logic.

Bot ZOS need to find a way to let rushers do their thing without ruining dungeon from new players because I'm very sad for the poor lvl 20 who get that kind of player with him when he tags for his second dungeon of the game....

Amottica

KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »

Jazraena wrote: »

Noctume wrote: »

I really can't stand DPS players who tag tank or heal in dungeon finder just to tag quickly!
When you come across this kind of players and you come across DLC dungeons it becomes complex and unmanageable because 90% of the time they rush without caring about the others player of the group !

It would be necessary that the dungeon finder blocks the fact of tag tank or healer if one does not respect certain restrictions:

• Tank : have a sword and shield equipped and a HP cap (30-35k for normal and more for vet) and minimal resistances (base for normal and vet) as well as the presence of at least one taunt skill
  
• Healer : have a recovery staff equipped with at least two healing skills (and more skills in vet)

Because this kind of experience with people who don't have the role and who ruin the tag of the other players who are forced to leave the dungeon because of people who don't respect the others and their role it becomes tiring.

Tell me what do you think about that idea in the comment below, tell me what should be your way to make things better rom your point of view and of course share your bad experience because of that kind of player to show to Zenimax dev that is a real problem.

I have a dedicated tank using Staves only and a dedicated Healer using Destruction Staves only. Both are fully Vet Capable, and not fake by any definition of the word. No DPS with medium and 1hshield and a taunt either; despite even that being enough in many case.

Don't force your limited playstyle perceptions on me.

Heck, a friend of mine does fine tanking - yes, an actual tank build - while double-baring a greatsword.

yea this weird builds are often capable of actually tanking and healing but if this is all u can ur still not a good tank cause in eso tanks and healers are buff bots and the most buffs u get if a tank has atleast 1 snb and a healer atleast 1 healing wand

1. ESO is clearly not built for S&B to be a tanking requirement as the frost staff is intended for tanking as well.
2. This is about dungeons, not trials, which have significantly lower demands on the tank and healer. Yes, I know a healing templar who never leveled up a resto staff on that character and has healed dungeons and was the second healer in a vet trial so these "requirements" are not actual requirements in the game's design.
3. For those who have specific requirements for their dungeon tank should form their own group.

[Deleted User]

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Franchise408

Players who fake their roles are frustrating, but I am against skill / stat checks, because it becomes a slippery slope to imposing that roles have to be played a specific way. Fake roles are a much preferred consequence for me that mandating that roles have to be played in a specific way. I properly tank, heal, and damage whenever I play any of those roles, and yes it can be frustrating when others aren't carrying their weight in a dungeon, but I also don't want to be dictated by other players or by the game how I setup my builds.

Noctume

Franchise408 wrote: »

Players who fake their roles are frustrating, but I am against skill / stat checks, because it becomes a slippery slope to imposing that roles have to be played a specific way. Fake roles are a much preferred consequence for me that mandating that roles have to be played in a specific way. I properly tank, heal, and damage whenever I play any of those roles, and yes it can be frustrating when others aren't carrying their weight in a dungeon, but I also don't want to be dictated by other players or by the game how I setup my builds.

I know that my first proposition isn't the right thing that's why i ask for comment to debate and discuss about point of your of others

The real point is we perhaps should create new queue to separate rusher and faker from the real people who really wants to do a proper dungeon normal or vet

Sylvermynx

Noctume wrote: »

Franchise408 wrote: »

Players who fake their roles are frustrating, but I am against skill / stat checks, because it becomes a slippery slope to imposing that roles have to be played a specific way. Fake roles are a much preferred consequence for me that mandating that roles have to be played in a specific way. I properly tank, heal, and damage whenever I play any of those roles, and yes it can be frustrating when others aren't carrying their weight in a dungeon, but I also don't want to be dictated by other players or by the game how I setup my builds.

I know that my first proposition isn't the right thing that's why i ask for comment to debate and discuss about point of your of others

The real point is we perhaps should create new queue to separate rusher and faker from the real people who really wants to do a proper dungeon normal or vet

How would you enforce veracity? It's like asking a 14 year old to input her DOB on an 18+ site - she's going to tweak her DOB so it fits.

People are going to continue to find ways to do what they want in group content. There's almost nothing you can do to force people to "be good". My friends who spend a good amount of time in dungeons vote to kick if things go south - but that doesn't always work either.

"The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers." Princess Leia Organa, Star Wars Episode IV: A New Hope

No, that's not specific to what goes on in ESO dungeons - other than that "tightening the grip" just makes people more determined to do as they wish instead of "being good".

Merforum

ZOS can fix this overnight but popping a huge banner to anyone entering NORMAL RANDOM dungeon finder without a 3 or 4 person group that says "THIS DUNGEON IS FOR BEGINNERS AND THOSE WILLING TO TRAIN BEGINNERS IN THEIR ROLES/MECHS, ANYONE SPEEDRUNNING OR NOT DOING THEIR ROLE WILL NOT GET REWARD".

Just the message itself may discourage them or encourage the other people to kick them more often. But along with that I think they should actually enforce it with very simple tests.
1. tank ACTUALLY taunts a few boss
2. healer ACTUALLY (over)heals someone else
3. no one runs ahead of group, initiates boss fight without group

Sylvermynx

Merforum wrote: »

ZOS can fix this overnight but popping a huge banner to anyone entering NORMAL RANDOM dungeon finder without a 3 or 4 person group that says "THIS DUNGEON IS FOR BEGINNERS AND THOSE WILLING TO TRAIN BEGINNERS IN THEIR ROLES/MECHS, ANYONE SPEEDRUNNING OR NOT DOING THEIR ROLE WILL NOT GET REWARD".

Just the message itself may discourage them or encourage the other people to kick them more often. But along with that I think they should actually enforce it with very simple tests.
1. tank ACTUALLY taunts a few boss
2. healer ACTUALLY (over)heals someone else
3. no one runs ahead of group, initiates boss fight without group

Won't work. People for the most part don't operate that way. First thing is, everyone's going to click past the message to get rid of it. Second thing is, people are going to do what they do regardless.

Merforum

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Noctume wrote: »

Franchise408 wrote: »

Players who fake their roles are frustrating, but I am against skill / stat checks, because it becomes a slippery slope to imposing that roles have to be played a specific way. Fake roles are a much preferred consequence for me that mandating that roles have to be played in a specific way. I properly tank, heal, and damage whenever I play any of those roles, and yes it can be frustrating when others aren't carrying their weight in a dungeon, but I also don't want to be dictated by other players or by the game how I setup my builds.

I know that my first proposition isn't the right thing that's why i ask for comment to debate and discuss about point of your of others

The real point is we perhaps should create new queue to separate rusher and faker from the real people who really wants to do a proper dungeon normal or vet

How would you enforce veracity? It's like asking a 14 year old to input her DOB on an 18+ site - she's going to tweak her DOB so it fits.

People are going to continue to find ways to do what they want in group content. There's almost nothing you can do to force people to "be good". My friends who spend a good amount of time in dungeons vote to kick if things go south - but that doesn't always work either.

"The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers." Princess Leia Organa, Star Wars Episode IV: A New Hope

No, that's not specific to what goes on in ESO dungeons - other than that "tightening the grip" just makes people more determined to do as they wish instead of "being good".

You might be right to imply these fakers act just like 12-14 year olds but the scary thing is most I think are physically if not mentally full grown adults.

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Merforum wrote: »

ZOS can fix this overnight but popping a huge banner to anyone entering NORMAL RANDOM dungeon finder without a 3 or 4 person group that says "THIS DUNGEON IS FOR BEGINNERS AND THOSE WILLING TO TRAIN BEGINNERS IN THEIR ROLES/MECHS, ANYONE SPEEDRUNNING OR NOT DOING THEIR ROLE WILL NOT GET REWARD".

Just the message itself may discourage them or encourage the other people to kick them more often. But along with that I think they should actually enforce it with very simple tests.
1. tank ACTUALLY taunts a few boss
2. healer ACTUALLY (over)heals someone else
3. no one runs ahead of group, initiates boss fight without group

Won't work. People for the most part don't operate that way. First thing is, everyone's going to click past the message to get rid of it. Second thing is, people are going to do what they do regardless.

That's fine, then they'll never get the 100K XP or 10 transmutes. Unless you think they are just griefing and don't care about the rewards, then just kick.

Sylvermynx

Merforum wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Noctume wrote: »

Franchise408 wrote: »

Players who fake their roles are frustrating, but I am against skill / stat checks, because it becomes a slippery slope to imposing that roles have to be played a specific way. Fake roles are a much preferred consequence for me that mandating that roles have to be played in a specific way. I properly tank, heal, and damage whenever I play any of those roles, and yes it can be frustrating when others aren't carrying their weight in a dungeon, but I also don't want to be dictated by other players or by the game how I setup my builds.

I know that my first proposition isn't the right thing that's why i ask for comment to debate and discuss about point of your of others

The real point is we perhaps should create new queue to separate rusher and faker from the real people who really wants to do a proper dungeon normal or vet

How would you enforce veracity? It's like asking a 14 year old to input her DOB on an 18+ site - she's going to tweak her DOB so it fits.

People are going to continue to find ways to do what they want in group content. There's almost nothing you can do to force people to "be good". My friends who spend a good amount of time in dungeons vote to kick if things go south - but that doesn't always work either.

"The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers." Princess Leia Organa, Star Wars Episode IV: A New Hope

No, that's not specific to what goes on in ESO dungeons - other than that "tightening the grip" just makes people more determined to do as they wish instead of "being good".

You might be right to imply these fakers act just like 12-14 year olds but the scary thing is most I think are physically if not mentally full grown adults.

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Merforum wrote: »

ZOS can fix this overnight but popping a huge banner to anyone entering NORMAL RANDOM dungeon finder without a 3 or 4 person group that says "THIS DUNGEON IS FOR BEGINNERS AND THOSE WILLING TO TRAIN BEGINNERS IN THEIR ROLES/MECHS, ANYONE SPEEDRUNNING OR NOT DOING THEIR ROLE WILL NOT GET REWARD".

Just the message itself may discourage them or encourage the other people to kick them more often. But along with that I think they should actually enforce it with very simple tests.
1. tank ACTUALLY taunts a few boss
2. healer ACTUALLY (over)heals someone else
3. no one runs ahead of group, initiates boss fight without group

Won't work. People for the most part don't operate that way. First thing is, everyone's going to click past the message to get rid of it. Second thing is, people are going to do what they do regardless.

That's fine, then they'll never get the 100K XP or 10 transmutes. Unless you think they are just griefing and don't care about the rewards, then just kick.

Well.... yeah. That's my point - the only thing that really works is kick. And the problem there is that sometimes you don't have enough votes to actually kick....

Merforum

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Merforum wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Noctume wrote: »

Franchise408 wrote: »

Players who fake their roles are frustrating, but I am against skill / stat checks, because it becomes a slippery slope to imposing that roles have to be played a specific way. Fake roles are a much preferred consequence for me that mandating that roles have to be played in a specific way. I properly tank, heal, and damage whenever I play any of those roles, and yes it can be frustrating when others aren't carrying their weight in a dungeon, but I also don't want to be dictated by other players or by the game how I setup my builds.

I know that my first proposition isn't the right thing that's why i ask for comment to debate and discuss about point of your of others

The real point is we perhaps should create new queue to separate rusher and faker from the real people who really wants to do a proper dungeon normal or vet

How would you enforce veracity? It's like asking a 14 year old to input her DOB on an 18+ site - she's going to tweak her DOB so it fits.

People are going to continue to find ways to do what they want in group content. There's almost nothing you can do to force people to "be good". My friends who spend a good amount of time in dungeons vote to kick if things go south - but that doesn't always work either.

"The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers." Princess Leia Organa, Star Wars Episode IV: A New Hope

No, that's not specific to what goes on in ESO dungeons - other than that "tightening the grip" just makes people more determined to do as they wish instead of "being good".

You might be right to imply these fakers act just like 12-14 year olds but the scary thing is most I think are physically if not mentally full grown adults.

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Merforum wrote: »

ZOS can fix this overnight but popping a huge banner to anyone entering NORMAL RANDOM dungeon finder without a 3 or 4 person group that says "THIS DUNGEON IS FOR BEGINNERS AND THOSE WILLING TO TRAIN BEGINNERS IN THEIR ROLES/MECHS, ANYONE SPEEDRUNNING OR NOT DOING THEIR ROLE WILL NOT GET REWARD".

Just the message itself may discourage them or encourage the other people to kick them more often. But along with that I think they should actually enforce it with very simple tests.
1. tank ACTUALLY taunts a few boss
2. healer ACTUALLY (over)heals someone else
3. no one runs ahead of group, initiates boss fight without group

Won't work. People for the most part don't operate that way. First thing is, everyone's going to click past the message to get rid of it. Second thing is, people are going to do what they do regardless.

That's fine, then they'll never get the 100K XP or 10 transmutes. Unless you think they are just griefing and don't care about the rewards, then just kick.

Well.... yeah. That's my point - the only thing that really works is kick. And the problem there is that sometimes you don't have enough votes to actually kick....

I know what you mean, last several times I tried to kick a toxic player, someone either didn't know what to do or disagreed. That is why the message pop up will let people know what is expected so they won't be afraid to kick. Unless there is more than 1 of them.

Skullstachio

@Arkew
You may have just given me an idea on as to how to possibly solve the issue of running through dungeons and leaving others behind. (It will be a while though.)

@Noctume
You aren’t the only one, I get kinda Livid when that happens with an LFG, people faking their roles for a quick geode (transmute wise.) is not healthy gameplay in which it also in on itself, ends up promoting discouraging gameplay that ends up with less players than intended which can eventually extend to trials to some veritable degree.(Why does anyone think the top percentage of top trials players on the leaderboards is so marginally small.) and trust me when I say That I am practically just “Barely Scratching the proverbial Surface” of these issues.