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MULTITHREADED RENDERING BETA - Not on Mac?

BlueRaven
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Hi,

So the "MULTITHREADED RENDERING BETA" is not coming to Mac this patch I take it? So there will be effectively two versions of the game?

Will it ever be coming to Mac?

And (This is not a sarcastic question) is there anyone ACTUALLY working on fixing anything for the Mac client? It's long standing issues? (Crashing to system-os log in, controller support, etc.)

BTW, I am aware of the whole "not supporting the M1 mac" thing, but this is about the CURRENT client on NON-M1 macs.
  • Amottica
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    Matt said they will continue to support mac as long as there are enough mac based players, but ofc they will not port the game to run on the ARM chips. That continued support may not include added enhancements since they probably expect to see a decline in mac users.

    Still would be nice for Mac users to get an official statement for the sake of clarity.
  • katorga
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    Amottica wrote: »
    Matt said they will continue to support mac as long as there are enough mac based players, but ofc they will not port the game to run on the ARM chips. That continued support may not include added enhancements since they probably expect to see a decline in mac users.

    Still would be nice for Mac users to get an official statement for the sake of clarity.

    Thats too bad. arm is the future. The power consumption/performance ratio is massive. That said, Rosetta translation on an M1 Mac is something to behold. If Windows had something equally as good....rough time for Intel/AMD. My wifes M1 mb air runs x86 code as fast as my 2019 2.6Ghz i7 16" mbp. No fan, no heat, no noise.

    Note, Nvidia OWNS arm now. I expect the paradigm of a cpu/motherboard and gpu expansion card to shift to the GPU being the motherboard and the cpu going on an expansion card. Windows runs on ARM natively, all that is missing is something like Apple's rosetta technology to make the transition from x86 seamless.



    Edited by katorga on August 13, 2021 7:43PM
  • vgabor
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    Nope, thats not added for mac client, I asked Gina in a PTS forum thread about multithread rendering and she answered that it wasn't added to the Mac client on PTS.

    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7332291#Comment_7332291
    Edited by vgabor on August 13, 2021 9:20PM
  • ResidentContrarian
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    Not sure why anyone would want it enabled. It's not going to be a magic bullet, and not going to solve FPU bottlenecks.
  • ResidentContrarian
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    katorga wrote: »
    Note, Nvidia OWNS arm now. I expect the paradigm of a cpu/motherboard and gpu expansion card to shift to the GPU being the motherboard and the cpu going on an expansion card. Windows runs on ARM natively, all that is missing is something like Apple's rosetta technology to make the transition from x86 seamless.

    Doesn't matter, ARM is pathetic at floating point tasks, where this game happens to have lots of it and other games as well. It's true that some operations can be converted or ran on a GPU, but that is only true as long as ESO and other games keep supporting older CPUs and don't require AVX/AVX2 or SEE4+.

    Modern games that don't care about older hardware and implement newer and better libraries for multithreding and maximum GPU performance per watt will all have requirements for the newer floating point instructions that ARM would take 4-5x as much time to complete (see PSO2:NGS for a game that requires AVX and SSE4 ).

    That being the case, ARM isn't going to replace anything. Also, Nvidia hasn''t actually acquired ARM yet because it isn't finalized as there is antitrust complaints, and rightfully so:

    https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/04/nvidias-40-billion-bid-for-arm-could-be-in-jeopardy.html
    Edited by ResidentContrarian on August 14, 2021 5:10AM
  • Amottica
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    katorga wrote: »
    Amottica wrote: »
    Matt said they will continue to support mac as long as there are enough mac based players, but ofc they will not port the game to run on the ARM chips. That continued support may not include added enhancements since they probably expect to see a decline in mac users.

    Still would be nice for Mac users to get an official statement for the sake of clarity.

    Thats too bad. arm is the future. The power consumption/performance ratio is massive. That said, Rosetta translation on an M1 Mac is something to behold. If Windows had something equally as good....rough time for Intel/AMD. My wifes M1 mb air runs x86 code as fast as my 2019 2.6Ghz i7 16" mbp. No fan, no heat, no noise.

    Note, Nvidia OWNS arm now. I expect the paradigm of a cpu/motherboard and gpu expansion card to shift to the GPU being the motherboard and the cpu going on an expansion card. Windows runs on ARM natively, all that is missing is something like Apple's rosetta technology to make the transition from x86 seamless.



    It may be the future but it is currently niche for gaming level PCs and PCs are also the majority of what the player base, and gaming community, use. I am not arguing about your comments as I am merely pointing out the majority of the current client side of this business.

    If what @ResidentContrarian points out is correct then it would seem that ARM will remain niche in the PC gaming world. That could be unfortunate for Macs.
    Edited by Amottica on August 14, 2021 5:16AM
  • blktauna
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    I bought a mid-range gaming laptop (on sale) for this game so I could free up my Mac to go back to doing actual work. Sadly the devs are not even remotely responsive to fatal game bugs let alone supporting an OS they do not understand or even wish to accomodate. I just took the hint.
  • katorga
    katorga
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    katorga wrote: »
    Note, Nvidia OWNS arm now. I expect the paradigm of a cpu/motherboard and gpu expansion card to shift to the GPU being the motherboard and the cpu going on an expansion card. Windows runs on ARM natively, all that is missing is something like Apple's rosetta technology to make the transition from x86 seamless.

    Doesn't matter, ARM is pathetic at floating point tasks, where this game happens to have lots of it and other games as well. It's true that some operations can be converted or ran on a GPU, but that is only true as long as ESO and other games keep supporting older CPUs and don't require AVX/AVX2 or SEE4+.

    Modern games that don't care about older hardware and implement newer and better libraries for multithreding and maximum GPU performance per watt will all have requirements for the newer floating point instructions that ARM would take 4-5x as much time to complete (see PSO2:NGS for a game that requires AVX and SSE4 ).

    That being the case, ARM isn't going to replace anything. Also, Nvidia hasn''t actually acquired ARM yet because it isn't finalized as there is antitrust complaints, and rightfully so:

    https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/04/nvidias-40-billion-bid-for-arm-could-be-in-jeopardy.html

    The GPU is going to replace the CPU in order of priority.

    Thanks for the link. Had not seen that one yet.
  • SirAndy
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    The Mac OS does not allow you to set processor affinity for a thread which really screws with trying to balance resources between threads, especially in a rendering pipeline.

    dry.gif

  • Deter1UK
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    blktauna wrote: »
    I bought a mid-range gaming laptop (on sale) for this game so I could free up my Mac to go back to doing actual work. Sadly the devs are not even remotely responsive to fatal game bugs let alone supporting an OS they do not understand or even wish to accomodate. I just took the hint.

    Yup , I took the hint as well, installed Windows on bootcamp. The game runs fine. It's no hassle to reboot into MacOS for everything else.
  • Norgaerth
    Norgaerth
    Soul Shriven
    Deter1UK wrote: »
    blktauna wrote: »
    I bought a mid-range gaming laptop (on sale) for this game so I could free up my Mac to go back to doing actual work. Sadly the devs are not even remotely responsive to fatal game bugs let alone supporting an OS they do not understand or even wish to accomodate. I just took the hint.

    Yup , I took the hint as well, installed Windows on bootcamp. The game runs fine. It's no hassle to reboot into MacOS for everything else.

    I'm struggling with this decision, bootcamp, buying a PC/laptop (and yet another display...), but also curious about whether Parallels would be an option. Does the game play decently in a VM? Is that just too much for my iMac to handle?
  • BlueRaven
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    @Norgaerth While I have not tested it personally, this thread may be of interest to you.

    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/583809/how-to-solve-all-your-issues-with-eso-on-the-mac
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