Getting kicked from vet trials because I'm a stamina DD

SeaGtGruff

KovalskyNestor wrote: »

Its kinda sad when you enter a trial and you see everyone wearing their sticks on the back and you are the only one with swords. This game is heavily advertised as "play how you want" but more and more I see anti melee range mechanics (like dragon slapping you if you enter its range). It's really elder staffs online.

I prefer melee fighting, myself-- my mains on both servers use 2-handed weapons-- so please keep that in mind when I say that I'd be disappointed if a dragon didn't slap me for standing there and poking at it with my sharp objects.

Raddox

Interestingly, I hear for the first time about such discrimination. I play Bow / Bow Warden myself. It's true that I only go to Normal / Veteran Dungeons and Normal Trials (Veteran Trials with random players is not a very good idea). But I must therefore say that if such discrimination (elitism) occurs in ESO, it is sad.

CleymenZero

Cadbury wrote: »

Stamina is for PvP
Magicka is for PvE
That's the way they seem to want it.

I got Gryphon Heart, Dawnbringer and TTT on stam. I top the charts being on a stam in a mag comp so idk about all that stam = pvp, mag = pve.

AuraStorm43

Karm1cOne wrote: »

The entire stam vs mag in trials is bs. With a couple of exceptions like vCR, everyone is in melee range. Shields are a dps loss, so that argument is bs too. The difference at the topest of prog groups is a percent or 2. In a pug vet trial, the difference is marginal.

I have seen a stam comp get Gryphon Heart, its possible to clear every bit of content in this game on stam

Even in VCR if you’re not on orbs and not going downstairs (typically this spots filled by a zen dk) you can use a melee weapon

I get stams not optimal for every raid comp but 1 or 2 stam dps won’t kill most raid comps

OneWingedAnge7

@Sleeping_OwI

I love my stamsorc, he has enough penetration and still pushes a high crit value. This is achieved as follows.

I use a 2h maul that is sharpened, that is best part of 6600 penetration and with my cp passive equalling 700 I have 7300 penetration. All by myself.
Now if you assume the tank is going to be doing their job and applying major and minor breach with an infused crusher enchantment they are giving you 11k.

Now enemies in trials and such have around 18200 resistance, so if the tank is giving you 11k and you can bring 7300, guess what? You have all you need!

With that being said, you may now be wondering where the crit comes from? And it's simple my man. Use crit sets! Drop that awful Kinras for Yokeda or Tzogvin or even Leviathan if you are not sufficiently sticker booked out. You don't need Kinras at all, it's a pain to keep 5 stacks and the minor berserk is already covered from the healers and their combat prayer. You could even drop Deadly too and honestly pair Yokeda with something like Relequen for single target burn fights but that's up to you.

But long story short, I feel you. I've been a stam guy since day 1. I have done most trials, even some of the older ones hard modes and never had any real issue. But in recent times have had to learn a magic dps so as to be most accommodating to the groups composition.

zvavi

Sleeping_OwI wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

vSS is one of the most stam friendly trials out there, excluding HM, which requires a huge amount of cleave damage that stam is lacking. If they can't clear non HM it is not because you are a stam dd (which parses higher this patch!!!), but because group as a whole was weak af.

Edit: additionally the stam crit-> crit damage is a buff. Change you mundus stone to thief and live your life happiner. (Essentially you are trading 5% crit dmg for 3% crit).
Edit 2: I am not saying you were not the issue. you might have been one of the reasons group couldn't pass it (having few weaker dds makes it harder) but if you were, it is not because you are a stam dd.

If I switch to Thief then my penetration will at a pitiful 2300 unbuffed, barely reaching 11k-12k with buffs. That's underpenetration. I'd love more crit chance, but I gotta have enough penetration first, don't you agree?

I mean. Just a tank with crusher, minor+major breach is 11k pen. In trial (especially next patch) you can bring alkosh for 6k pen for group (or someone else can bring it) putting you on almost pen cap if you include CP. Now generally trial groups go for shadow in stam comp, since so I assumed you are with shadow mundus. But if you are not in shadow mundus, let's do some maths. Assuming your race is khajit and you are a templar, and you use 1 crit dmg CP (vSS so no backstabber), and the trial group uptime on major force is 30%~, with minor force you were supposed to have 98% crit dmg with 47% crit chance. That's around 46% dmg increase from crit. Changing it to 112% crit dmg and 40% crit, is around 44.8% increase. You are losing barely lose 1.2% dmg increase, which is 0.8% of your 150%~ dmg dealt.

Now assuming you are not a khajit and Templar/nb, which means you had a base of 76% crit dmg, which would change the 46% and 44.8% into 35.7% and 36%.

So in worst case scenario where your class and race dipped into crit dmg, you lose a tiny bit of damage and you actually get damage if you are not a NB/Templar cat.

So I see no issue here.

Edit: with changing shadow to thief the calculation would be different btw, even with the assumption above of khajit Templar, you are going from 117% crit dmg and 47% crit to 112% crit dmg with 50% crit, which is respectively 55% dmg increase from crit to 56% dmg increase from crit (in trial environment).

Soulshine

Fennwitty wrote: »

Best stam participation I achieved in a trial was with a bowblade build at Cloudrest.

Able to put attacks almost wherever, avoid mechanics because I can see them coming a mile away ...

But that was before some of the recent bow changes that reduced damage.

Ranged vs. Melee is one huge piece. Bow in my opinion isn't in a great place for doing damage as a main weapon unless you specifically use the special arena weapons and build for it. So stam doesn't have much in the way of purely ranged damage.

Trials have so much (almost) unavoidable effects and teleporting enemies that melee is at extreme disadvantage. Even if I was ready to do tons of damage with a 2-h or dual wield, it feels like half my time's spent dodge rolling or breaking free. Then the other quarter of my time is running down the real target because they popped up somewhere else.

yep. makes me sad, frankly. I used to play another game where my bow char was god mode basically. came to eso excited I might get to recreate that kind of experience in the combat system here, only to discover wonky bow animations and sound, poor damage, and a whole lot lackluster bow skills. I have some stamblades I play as dw/bow for pvp but have no illusions about bringing them to any pve endgame even with arena bows, it's just not worth it to me.

Ippokrates

Wait a second. According to Trial Dummy, which everyone using to get their perfect parse, standing exactly in the spot behind with vateshran hidden daggers with no defensive skills on both bars and keeping health below 50% with their vampire skills to proc True-sworn or Titanborn and making 150k dps XD in a team play, resist should be reduced to 3,6k?

So penetration is really not an issue for stamina, cause 1 set bonus + 1 weapon + cp should done enough. In fact, light armour losing on overpenetration, while medium could use full bonus to weapon dmg which is btw boosting proc sets too.

And you tell me that you want only magicka dps in your trial group? XD

molecule

1 hour in and still on Ice boss is a terrible group.

You were lucky to be removed.

JTD

Lets be honest this thread isn't about stamina or magicka, it is about not pugging Trials and finding a guild you're comfortable with and who are comfortable with you.

Reverb

molecule wrote: »

1 hour in and still on Ice boss is a terrible group.

You were lucky to be removed.

I think that’s the hardest fight there though. The other two bosses are much easier than the ice dragon

WuffyCerulei

Screw those people. Screw anyone who does that in any trial. Albeit some trials like vAS are pretty punishing on stam dps, but there are ways to work around it. If you like playing stam, then play stam! Same with mag. It says a lot about someone or some people is they solely judge on your playstyle. I mean heck, one of my cores is 7 mag dps and 1 stam, but we don't give the one guy crap for being stam. It's how he likes to play. And we work around it.

Tip OP, avoid these sorts of players/guilds/groups. There are so many kind, considerate people who'd want you around. Don't let a few rotten eggs wreck your whole meal.

mickeyx

ESO Dev's be like. "Play the way you like. Build your character as you want" also ESO Dev's "but not as stamina though".

zvavi

mickeyx wrote: »

ESO Dev's be like. "Play the way you like. Build your character as you want" also ESO Dev's "but not as stamina though".

There are stam clears for most trial trifectas (not sure rockgrove has one yet). Play the way you want always meant that everything is viable but not optimal.

Reverb wrote: »

molecule wrote: »

1 hour in and still on Ice boss is a terrible group.

You were lucky to be removed.

I think that’s the hardest fight there though. The other two bosses are much easier than the ice dragon

Hard disagree. I sometimes solo tank it for pugs, and while I can manage holding boss + 3 ice atros, if I am overwhelmed by iron atros or adds on nhavi (out of resources) it is rip.

OutLaw_Nynx

Having a main that is Stam is rough.

Having my main being a Stam DK is even rougher.

I started a healer, and I’m having much more luck getting into groups. It sucks as I have most of my achievements on my stam DK 😢

Ippokrates

OutLaw_Nynx wrote: »

Having a main that is Stam is rough.

Having my main being a Stam DK is even rougher.

I started a healer, and I’m having much more luck getting into groups. It sucks as I have most of my achievements on my stam DK 😢

What race do you have? Because i also started DK as stam (Imperial) but now i have transfered my imp to mdk and sometimes I can make around 12-15% trial group dps. Bah, in trash situations even more, up to 20%.

So maybe try to experiment with magicka dd? The gameplay, especially with dragon breathe is so much fun ^^

Lucozade85

Stam needs to be made more viable for trials.

redlink1979

Sleeping_OwI wrote: »

(...) "You're stam dd. Stam not for trials lol." (...) What do you guys think about all this?

Misleading.

Sindrik8x

Posted this in another trials thread today but, thought I'd share here as it made sense to me:

For the record, for those discussing elitism in here as the main reason for not playing, if that's the only reason, go ahead and hit me up.

My son and I run a new progressive trials guild. Any race, any role, any build. We play for fun. Time to clear doesn't matter particularly to us. We're just working to form some core groups, learn mechanics slowly in mostly vHRC, vAA, vAS right now. Waiting on vSO to be fixed of it's bugs before we jump in there. But, we've already even got some timed run achievements and we've been a guild for two weeks.

We are looking to advance into vCR and vSS soon.

No need to be, "carried". No worrying about people complaining. Sure people can get frustrated. But, as long as you are working to improve and get better each go, and focusing on making your build effective for your role (growing gradually), then we're happy to have you.

Sinful Valor on PC. Or just hit me up in game @Sindrik8x

Mumbles_the_Tank

Lucozade85 wrote: »

Stam needs to be made more viable for trials.

Stamina is fine - the uninformed player base stuck in its ways is the issue.

https://youtu.be/Dcw47ggS-AY
Mixed comp works - that’s been obvious on paper since new CP landed. Simply very few willing to swap away from their comfy mag meta.

Celephantsylvius_Bornasfinmo

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Youyouz06 wrote: »

Lady_Galadhiel wrote: »

Didin't the first Godslayer consist in like 3 or 4 stamcros in the team back in the day?
I know that stamina is not needed/wanted now but how can a team kick one player for something everyone is responsible for?
I mean if you wipe at one boss over and over it is not the fault of one player but of everyone.

They possibly did it when the dot meta was deployed (on VSS launch basically), all stams had the VMA daggers and were boosting out crazy DPS for that time (might be wrong on the way they achieved it, but it existed)

I think it was more about the fact that Necros were the new Meta with Colossus rotations when VSS launched, and as stated, VSS is VERY stamina friendly as trials go. It was the first class/spec our raid lead at the time told us to power level. Between Colossus and Lokkestiiz (from VSS), you had absurd uptimes on Major Slayer and Vulnerability. Lokk played well to StamCro with there ability to self synergize. DPS was off the charts. I dont remember VMA weapons being part of that setup. Lokk Daggers (and 2 handers) were all the rage.

No one remembers the dot meta?
I think I've been around too long

Sindrik8x

Youyouz06 wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Youyouz06 wrote: »

Lady_Galadhiel wrote: »

Didin't the first Godslayer consist in like 3 or 4 stamcros in the team back in the day?
I know that stamina is not needed/wanted now but how can a team kick one player for something everyone is responsible for?
I mean if you wipe at one boss over and over it is not the fault of one player but of everyone.

They possibly did it when the dot meta was deployed (on VSS launch basically), all stams had the VMA daggers and were boosting out crazy DPS for that time (might be wrong on the way they achieved it, but it existed)

I think it was more about the fact that Necros were the new Meta with Colossus rotations when VSS launched, and as stated, VSS is VERY stamina friendly as trials go. It was the first class/spec our raid lead at the time told us to power level. Between Colossus and Lokkestiiz (from VSS), you had absurd uptimes on Major Slayer and Vulnerability. Lokk played well to StamCro with there ability to self synergize. DPS was off the charts. I dont remember VMA weapons being part of that setup. Lokk Daggers (and 2 handers) were all the rage.

No one remembers the dot meta?
I think I've been around too long

[img][/img]

hafgood

At the moment stam are not popular in trials, that said I'm the lone stam in my trials group and we have done all trials on vet, craglirns and vHOF HM's.

Being the lone stam has its limitations as the healers and tanks set are all geared towards mag characters. Assuming I meet the leads dps requirements I'll be joining them in vMOL, vSS and vKA hard modes wearing alkosh for the extra penetration that gives at the next patch. At the current time vCR + vAS hard modes (+1, +2, +3) are deemed non stam friendly, but that may well change with a future patch.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Youyouz06 wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Youyouz06 wrote: »

Lady_Galadhiel wrote: »

Didin't the first Godslayer consist in like 3 or 4 stamcros in the team back in the day?
I know that stamina is not needed/wanted now but how can a team kick one player for something everyone is responsible for?
I mean if you wipe at one boss over and over it is not the fault of one player but of everyone.

They possibly did it when the dot meta was deployed (on VSS launch basically), all stams had the VMA daggers and were boosting out crazy DPS for that time (might be wrong on the way they achieved it, but it existed)

I think it was more about the fact that Necros were the new Meta with Colossus rotations when VSS launched, and as stated, VSS is VERY stamina friendly as trials go. It was the first class/spec our raid lead at the time told us to power level. Between Colossus and Lokkestiiz (from VSS), you had absurd uptimes on Major Slayer and Vulnerability. Lokk played well to StamCro with there ability to self synergize. DPS was off the charts. I dont remember VMA weapons being part of that setup. Lokk Daggers (and 2 handers) were all the rage.

No one remembers the dot meta?
I think I've been around too long

Oh I remember the DOT meta. I have been here for ALL the metas. Haha. I just don't think it coincided with VSS release. If memory serves, that was the stack StamCros with Colossus and Lokk Meta.

Celephantsylvius_Bornasfinmo

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Youyouz06 wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Youyouz06 wrote: »

Lady_Galadhiel wrote: »

Didin't the first Godslayer consist in like 3 or 4 stamcros in the team back in the day?
I know that stamina is not needed/wanted now but how can a team kick one player for something everyone is responsible for?
I mean if you wipe at one boss over and over it is not the fault of one player but of everyone.

They possibly did it when the dot meta was deployed (on VSS launch basically), all stams had the VMA daggers and were boosting out crazy DPS for that time (might be wrong on the way they achieved it, but it existed)

I think it was more about the fact that Necros were the new Meta with Colossus rotations when VSS launched, and as stated, VSS is VERY stamina friendly as trials go. It was the first class/spec our raid lead at the time told us to power level. Between Colossus and Lokkestiiz (from VSS), you had absurd uptimes on Major Slayer and Vulnerability. Lokk played well to StamCro with there ability to self synergize. DPS was off the charts. I dont remember VMA weapons being part of that setup. Lokk Daggers (and 2 handers) were all the rage.

No one remembers the dot meta?
I think I've been around too long

Oh I remember the DOT meta. I have been here for ALL the metas. Haha. I just don't think it coincided with VSS release. If memory serves, that was the stack StamCros with Colossus and Lokk Meta.

Yup I think you may be right.

kringled_1

Dot meta I think was scale breaker to dragon hold, so the patch after SS launched till the next patch.

Everest_Lionheart

Sleeping_OwI wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

vSS is one of the most stam friendly trials out there, excluding HM, which requires a huge amount of cleave damage that stam is lacking. If they can't clear non HM it is not because you are a stam dd (which parses higher this patch!!!), but because group as a whole was weak af.

Edit: additionally the stam crit-> crit damage is a buff. Change you mundus stone to thief and live your life happiner. (Essentially you are trading 5% crit dmg for 3% crit).
Edit 2: I am not saying you were not the issue. you might have been one of the reasons group couldn't pass it (having few weaker dds makes it harder) but if you were, it is not because you are a stam dd.

If I switch to Thief then my penetration will at a pitiful 2300 unbuffed, barely reaching 11k-12k with buffs. That's underpenetration. I'd love more crit chance, but I gotta have enough penetration first, don't you agree?

Kilt for every fight in vSS except ice boss. 1 piece Kra’gh monster helm and a 2H maul and you will be fine. If you are running DW run a sharpened dagger on your off hand. Try not to overthink penetration for PVE. Stacking every possible source of crit is the answer these days.

I still use a precise 2H battle axe on my Stamden and a vMA inferno back bar and have no problems going over 100K on the dummy. I’m not even doing the Kra’gh monster piece, just running kilt and Slimecraw. I’m leaning into the hybrid method next patch and running orbs as well as winters and wearing Bahsei on the body. They want to put pen and crit on the same armor line with an OP cheese set like that with an easy proc condition to meet on stam and I plan to abuse it to the fullest. I hit 94K in it now on current patch without the armor changes.

As for the PUG groups vSS problem half of them are probably still wearing their kilts, the other half are still probably using backstabber and there’s probably one of your supports that is a one trick pony usually it’s a healer that only spams combat prayer or a tank wearing 2 selfish sets and not contributing to group DPS in any way.

Everest_Lionheart

KovalskyNestor wrote: »

Its kinda sad when you enter a trial and you see everyone wearing their sticks on the back and you are the only one with swords. This game is heavily advertised as "play how you want" but more and more I see anti melee range mechanics (like dragon slapping you if you enter its range). It's really elder staffs online.

You know you can block that right? Not in vSS of course the wing slap will send everyone for a death ride except a tank. If you are going over there in vSS that definitely a LTP issue, but overland dragons I stand there and stab them right between the wing and the foot. Look for the tell and block. You’ll be glad you did. Same trick works for tail slap by the way.

Everest_Lionheart

See my post 2 above this. DOT meta will make a comeback. Already building for it hybrid Stamden in Bahsei + Deadly. With all dots getting boosted from Deadly by 18% plus the ability to drain mag on stam toons to meet Bahsei threshold we are looking at 30%+ boost to dots. My build is running 7 plus enchants. Everyone is up in arms about mag running medium armor but I don’t think people understand how much stam can take advantage of light if you build for it.

Pevey

I filled out my sticker book for deadly in anticipation of next patch. Already, my stamden has been running ice comet in situations where bear is not ideal. Bashei is something I had not considered yet. Should be interesting.