Frostbite has to get a 2% buff before live!

lQrukl

According to lightning and fire staff changes (8% -> 10%).
As i see, this set was designed as Ancient Knowledge alternative, to make frost mages more viable compared to common fire staff builds.
But with that passive's buff it would be too weak again, because it increases the gap to 7% from 5% before:

1) 8% Frostbite + 10% Warden passive = +18% max to frost damage (to light attacks, spammable, few other abilities)

2) 8 (10)% AK + 10% Engulfing + 5% Behemoth = +23% (+25% on PTS) max (to light attacks, spammable, etc).

Too much difference!

ESO_Nightingale

it's probably fine if we just got more actual skills via damage type changes and a rework or 2 to some winter's embrace morphs. frost reach was a step in the right direction. Those new frost damage skills will work with the set/others that focus on frost damage. specifically frost damage shalks would help a significant amount.

they've also acknowledged the problem, kinda:

With the introduction of the Frostbite set in Update 30, we saw a lot of discussion on the viability of Frost damage sets and how their main drawback - regardless of their power - was there was no Frost damaging ability that could be used as a spammable attack. Rather than bloating those sets further, we've decided to let Frost Touch and its morphs stand out; Frost Touch and Reach now deal ranged spammable damage on initial hit.

the spammable was one part of it, but the actual overarching problem is a fundamental lack of frost damage skills in general.

ToxicOutrage

I hate that they added behemoth monster set. Fire was already the most dominant staff type

ESO_Nightingale

ToxicOutrage wrote: »

I hate that they added behemoth monster set. Fire was already the most dominant staff type

i think they need to do something about the group fire damage done bonuses, since their existence just makes the damage type dominant on every mag class. there's no group equivalent for frost or shock so whenever you have the option to run fire based options over anything of any other type, fire will always be the better option. this is mostly a problem with the staff, but also with the flame enchant. then there is fire wall which does 20% extra damage to burning enemies and gets that additional 15% bonus from E+E, shock wall only really gets 8/10% more from shock staff's bonus, and the off balance utility it used to offer is now gone, frost provides projectile damage shields and immobilizes chilled enemies, but it in turn costs more, when unstable wall of frost could have been spared to instead have a more damage focused role instead of offering another, but worse projectile shield when it explodes(?) it doesn't help that the flame staff's st damage bonus effects light attacks as well. it's overall just really poorly balanced. i think if they wanted to give utility to the destruction staff, it's best to spread it around the different types and lesser used morphs rather than just dedicate one staff to it.

hell, the fire staff even gets the only hard cc and execute on the line as well, even if they're both pretty meh, it's still the case.

Tannus15

the frost reach as spammable buff is huge. I recommend testing that out.

ESO_Nightingale

Tannus15 wrote: »

the frost reach as spammable buff is huge. I recommend testing that out.

It's fantastic by itself but it's not enough to make the archetype great

ADarklore

I'm just thankful that ZOS is finally, albeit slowly, coming to the realization that many players (including myself) want to play a ice mage DPS. As such, I am hoping they continue to add more support for ice DPS in the future... perhaps increasing frost damage on other destro skills as well. I don't want ice to relegated to a 'Warden only' option either, so continue to increase frost damage in the destro skill lines would be beneficial for any class wanting to add a bit of ice to their life!

@ZOS_Kevin Are there any continuing discussions about increasing frost damage so make it further on par with Inferno and Lightning staff for DPS? It's nice they have the tank options, but like with what has been done with Destructive Reach this patch... could you possibly rework other morphs to increase Frost DPS as well; keeping tanking an option for one morph, but increased DPS for the other?

the1andonlyskwex

Putting frost staff damage on par with shock and inferno staff damage is a bad idea unless frost staff's additional defensive bonuses get removed. Otherwise, frost staff will just become massively overpowered in PvP, where both offensive and defensive bonuses matter.

If the defensive bonuses do get removed, I guess that's fine from a DPS perspective, but then there isn't really a magicka tanking option anymore, and none of the destruction staffs are all that useful for healers.

YandereGirlfriend

ADarklore wrote: »

I'm just thankful that ZOS is finally, albeit slowly, coming to the realization that many players (including myself) want to play a ice mage DPS. As such, I am hoping they continue to add more support for ice DPS in the future... perhaps increasing frost damage on other destro skills as well. I don't want ice to relegated to a 'Warden only' option either, so continue to increase frost damage in the destro skill lines would be beneficial for any class wanting to add a bit of ice to their life!

@ZOS_Kevin Are there any continuing discussions about increasing frost damage so make it further on par with Inferno and Lightning staff for DPS? It's nice they have the tank options, but like with what has been done with Destructive Reach this patch... could you possibly rework other morphs to increase Frost DPS as well; keeping tanking an option for one morph, but increased DPS for the other?

Lightning Staff is not currently any more viable for DPS than an Ice Staff is.

Frost Mages and Shock Mages are together in the same boat and both should advocate for buffs for each other. Presenting a united front against the dark reign of Flame Damage is the only path to victory.

Tannus15

From my testing on a mag sorc lightning staff is now easily the worst destro staff.

ESO_Nightingale

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

I'm just thankful that ZOS is finally, albeit slowly, coming to the realization that many players (including myself) want to play a ice mage DPS. As such, I am hoping they continue to add more support for ice DPS in the future... perhaps increasing frost damage on other destro skills as well. I don't want ice to relegated to a 'Warden only' option either, so continue to increase frost damage in the destro skill lines would be beneficial for any class wanting to add a bit of ice to their life!

@ZOS_Kevin Are there any continuing discussions about increasing frost damage so make it further on par with Inferno and Lightning staff for DPS? It's nice they have the tank options, but like with what has been done with Destructive Reach this patch... could you possibly rework other morphs to increase Frost DPS as well; keeping tanking an option for one morph, but increased DPS for the other?

Lightning Staff is not currently any more viable for DPS than an Ice Staff is.

Frost Mages and Shock Mages are together in the same boat and both should advocate for buffs for each other. Presenting a united front against the dark reign of Flame Damage is the only path to victory.

damn right, we're in this together.

ESO_Nightingale

ADarklore wrote: »

I'm just thankful that ZOS is finally, albeit slowly, coming to the realization that many players (including myself) want to play a ice mage DPS. As such, I am hoping they continue to add more support for ice DPS in the future... perhaps increasing frost damage on other destro skills as well. I don't want ice to relegated to a 'Warden only' option either, so continue to increase frost damage in the destro skill lines would be beneficial for any class wanting to add a bit of ice to their life!

@ZOS_Kevin Are there any continuing discussions about increasing frost damage so make it further on par with Inferno and Lightning staff for DPS? It's nice they have the tank options, but like with what has been done with Destructive Reach this patch... could you possibly rework other morphs to increase Frost DPS as well; keeping tanking an option for one morph, but increased DPS for the other?

this line of thinking needs to be followed for winter's embrace skills too.
Northern Storm, Expansive Frost Cloak, Winter's Revenge, Arctic Blast, Crystallized Slab and Frozen Retreat are the best options for this though i'm unsure if EFC and Slab should be reworked, but it's very easy to make arguments for Arctic Blast and Frozen Retreat.

emilyhyoyeon

Ancient knowledge should be reworked

Tannus15

Frostbite is fine from what I'm seeing. Perfectly inline for an overland set and significantly better than other elemental offerings like silks of the sun.

ESO_Nightingale

Tannus15 wrote: »

Frostbite is fine from what I'm seeing. Perfectly inline for an overland set and significantly better than other elemental offerings like silks of the sun.

i agree, it just lacks skills that it can be used with.

ESO_Nightingale

emilyhyoyeon wrote: »

Ancient knowledge should be reworked

i agree. the tanking component and minor brittle effects should be shifted to cp/ non dps destro skill morphs

axi

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

I'm just thankful that ZOS is finally, albeit slowly, coming to the realization that many players (including myself) want to play a ice mage DPS. As such, I am hoping they continue to add more support for ice DPS in the future... perhaps increasing frost damage on other destro skills as well. I don't want ice to relegated to a 'Warden only' option either, so continue to increase frost damage in the destro skill lines would be beneficial for any class wanting to add a bit of ice to their life!

@ZOS_Kevin Are there any continuing discussions about increasing frost damage so make it further on par with Inferno and Lightning staff for DPS? It's nice they have the tank options, but like with what has been done with Destructive Reach this patch... could you possibly rework other morphs to increase Frost DPS as well; keeping tanking an option for one morph, but increased DPS for the other?

Lightning Staff is not currently any more viable for DPS than an Ice Staff is.

Frost Mages and Shock Mages are together in the same boat and both should advocate for buffs for each other. Presenting a united front against the dark reign of Flame Damage is the only path to victory.

What is truly funny is that even in AoE fights flame staff is better then shock staff. Flame pulsar des way more dmg then shock pulsar desapite lightning staff and lightning pulsar buffing AoE dmg.