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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8235739/
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8235739/
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PTS 7.1.2: Battle Spirit: Reduced the damage taken bonus to 50% on this effect, down from 55%.
taugrim
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From the PTS 7.1.2 notes:
Thank goodness the change from 44->55% was reduced to 44->50%. 55% would be way too much mitigation.
I think reducing Battle Spirit mitigation in Blackwood from 50->44% may have been unneeded in the first place, given that with proc sets scaling with stats, proc sets are no longer meta and players switched to DD and burst builds. In some cases today, TTK is very low.
Some folks would rather leave Battle Spirit mitigation at 44% to limit TTK, but I want to try it out @ 50% before passing judgment.
Edited by taugrim on July 26, 2021 7:41PM Reduced the damage taken bonus to 50% on this effect, down from 55%.
Thank goodness the change from 44->55% was reduced to 44->50%. 55% would be way too much mitigation.
I think reducing Battle Spirit mitigation in Blackwood from 50->44% may have been unneeded in the first place, given that with proc sets scaling with stats, proc sets are no longer meta and players switched to DD and burst builds. In some cases today, TTK is very low.
Some folks would rather leave Battle Spirit mitigation at 44% to limit TTK, but I want to try it out @ 50% before passing judgment.
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Jameson18✭✭✭✭✭I'm not a fan of the healing adjustment. Really should have just left them all set at 50% and then look for outliers later.
All these mass sweeping changes and nerfs and/or buffs to things to compensate for adding a flat 1k wep/spell dmg that never should happened.6 -
Tommy_The_Gun✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Well, there is still Major Protection on flare. 10% damage reduction from all sources just for slotting a skill...
I mean, I know that they want to make it so slotting this ability when you are not using it, would not feel like you are wasting space on your, but... 10% damage reduction is waaayy to much.
Just compare it to other "stealth" counters and what those give when you slot them. Expert Hunter and Magelight give you 10% more crit chance, not 10% flat dmg boost from all sources. And Flare is equivalent of that since it gives 10% flat damage reduction from all sources. To put it into perspective, to get 10% less damage taken you have to be WW Pack Leader and transformed...
I can not see how it would not be abused (PvE, PvP, Trials etc.) if it reaches live server. I guess if it wont be nerfed in PTS it is gonna be nerfed a patch or two later. It is just too good with almost 0 sacrifice & trade-off.
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neferpitou73✭✭✭✭✭
✭From the PTS 7.1.2 notes:Reduced the damage taken bonus to 50% on this effect, down from 55%.
Thank goodness the change from 44->55% was reduced to 44->50%. 55% would be way too much mitigation.
Don't you mean "Tank goodness"....
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WrathOfInnos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »Well, there is still Major Protection on flare. 10% damage reduction from all sources just for slotting a skill...
I mean, I know that they want to make it so slotting this ability when you are not using it, would not feel like you are wasting space on your, but... 10% damage reduction is waaayy to much.
Just compare it to other "stealth" counters and what those give when you slot them. Expert Hunter and Magelight give you 10% more crit chance, not 10% flat dmg boost from all sources. And Flare is equivalent of that since it gives 10% flat damage reduction from all sources. To put it into perspective, to get 10% less damage taken you have to be WW Pack Leader and transformed...
I can not see how it would not be abused (PvE, PvP, Trials etc.) if it reaches live server. I guess if it wont be nerfed in PTS it is gonna be nerfed a patch or two later. It is just too good with almost 0 sacrifice & trade-off.
Giving up a bar slot is a significant sacrifice. I talked about the strength some in another thread, and it’s really not far off compared to what Inner Light or Camo Hunter offer. It could maybe be 8 or 9% for perfect balance, but then it wouldn’t be a named buff and likely would be made stronger by stacking. At 10% it’s reasonably close to balanced, and I have no problem with the defensive option being slightly better than the offensive ones. For comparison:
Flare:
- 10% mitigation
- 10% Magicka recovery
- Reveal stealth enemies
Inner Light
- 12% Spell Crit
- 7% Max Magicka
- 2% Magicka Recovery
- Empower for 4s after cast
- Reveal stealth enemies
Camo Hunter
- 12% Weapon Crit
- 3% Weapon + Spell Damage
- 3 ultimate gained from kills
- 5s of Minor Berserk (5% damage) after a flanking crit
- Reveal stealth enemies
It’s almost like each was designed as a reveal tool for a specific build: Light/Medium/Heavy or Magicka damage/Stamina damage/Health tank.8 -
divnyi✭✭✭✭✭
✭I love the changes, and love the healing nerf specifically. I asked for this change and I don't think I will have any regrets.1 -
Stx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I don't like the healing nerf.. when you nerf healing too much the cost of some healing spells make them completely non-viable. But I'll keep an open mind, it might turn out to be okay.0 -
Mitaka211✭✭✭✭This may be an unpopular opinion but I think these passives are a lazy fix to a lack of balance. I personally don't like these morphed versions of out character's stats. These passives are like a bandate in my eyes. 5% this 10% that, give me a break. I understand , the game is not balanced for bgs, but how about finally doing that so we can play our normal characters. I hate MMOs that do that crap, I like it when things are consistant, oh I have this amount of Health and this amount of Stam, this is the damage I do , I go to a bg and it is the same ...good. But no not here, here we have to pretend we are balancing and protect people from getting their feelings hurt....IN PVP. For god sakes.1
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Alucardo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I don't understand why they don't just reintroduce soft caps. Power creeps are going to keep happening, then they just have to rebalance battle spirit every time. At least with soft caps you tweak it until you find a nice balance and you're done. No more changing.2 -
Zabagad✭✭✭✭✭
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I think its not a fair compare if you only mention "Reveal stealth enemies" and use the 6m morph of IL and CH which nobody would use if he/she really want to reveal enemies...WrathOfInnos wrote: »For comparison:
Flare:
- 10% mitigation
- 10% Magicka recovery
- Reveal stealth enemies
Inner Light
- 12% Spell Crit
- 7% Max Magicka
- 2% Magicka Recovery
- Empower for 4s after cast
- Reveal stealth enemies
Camo Hunter
- 12% Weapon Crit
- 3% Weapon + Spell Damage
- 3 ultimate gained from kills
- 5s of Minor Berserk (5% damage) after a flanking crit
- Reveal stealth enemies
Edited by Zabagad on July 27, 2021 9:21AMPC EU (noCP AD) Grey/Grau AD
Please raise the population caps.
@ZOS - Convert the heal on "Hardened Ward" into a HoT pls.0 -
divnyi✭✭✭✭✭
✭
I think its not a fair compare if you only mention "Reveal stealth enemies" and use the 6m morph of IL and CH which nobody would use if he/she really want to reveal enemies...WrathOfInnos wrote: »For comparison:
Flare:
- 10% mitigation
- 10% Magicka recovery
- Reveal stealth enemies
Inner Light
- 12% Spell Crit
- 7% Max Magicka
- 2% Magicka Recovery
- Empower for 4s after cast
- Reveal stealth enemies
Camo Hunter
- 12% Weapon Crit
- 3% Weapon + Spell Damage
- 3 ultimate gained from kills
- 5s of Minor Berserk (5% damage) after a flanking crit
- Reveal stealth enemies
They are buffing it. +2m range and ticks twice per second, might actually work.I don't understand why they don't just reintroduce soft caps. Power creeps are going to keep happening, then they just have to rebalance battle spirit every time. At least with soft caps you tweak it until you find a nice balance and you're done. No more changing.
Soft Caps on what?I don't like the healing nerf.. when you nerf healing too much the cost of some healing spells make them completely non-viable. But I'll keep an open mind, it might turn out to be okay.
Healing spells will never stop being viable in PvP.
Problem of strong healing is actually the cornerstone of all other balance issues in ESO. Healing is way too strong, even without cross-heals, thus you need oneshot burst to kill. Thus DPS doesn't matter. Thus META is being tough and have some ways to raise damage teporarily to nuke.
Reducing healing would mean that some builds won't be able to completely outheal incomming damage they used to outheal by stacking HoTs + using burst heal to negate burst spikes.
DPS will start mattering. Taking damage will start mattering. That's good change overall.0 -
Tommy_The_Gun✭✭✭✭✭
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Yep. Also, Inner Light & Camo Hunter give 10% weapon & spell crit, not 12%. Besides we should not compare additional skill line passives here, just what each ability gives you. 10% Mitigation just for slotting is just way too much. Even WW ulit does not give THAT strong bonus for slotting (and that ability occupies an ultimate slot).
I think its not a fair compare if you only mention "Reveal stealth enemies" and use the 6m morph of IL and CH which nobody would use if he/she really want to reveal enemies...WrathOfInnos wrote: »For comparison:
Flare:
- 10% mitigation
- 10% Magicka recovery
- Reveal stealth enemies
Inner Light
- 12% Spell Crit
- 7% Max Magicka
- 2% Magicka Recovery
- Empower for 4s after cast
- Reveal stealth enemies
Camo Hunter
- 12% Weapon Crit
- 3% Weapon + Spell Damage
- 3 ultimate gained from kills
- 5s of Minor Berserk (5% damage) after a flanking crit
- Reveal stealth enemiesEdited by Tommy_The_Gun on July 27, 2021 10:41AM0 -
Abyssmol✭✭✭✭✭
I think its not a fair compare if you only mention "Reveal stealth enemies" and use the 6m morph of IL and CH which nobody would use if he/she really want to reveal enemies...WrathOfInnos wrote: »For comparison:
Flare:
- 10% mitigation
- 10% Magicka recovery
- Reveal stealth enemies
Inner Light
- 12% Spell Crit
- 7% Max Magicka
- 2% Magicka Recovery
- Empower for 4s after cast
- Reveal stealth enemies
Camo Hunter
- 12% Weapon Crit
- 3% Weapon + Spell Damage
- 3 ultimate gained from kills
- 5s of Minor Berserk (5% damage) after a flanking crit
- Reveal stealth enemies
Next patch it's 8m, not0 -
Jaimeh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭This may be an unpopular opinion but I think these passives are a lazy fix to a lack of balance. I personally don't like these morphed versions of out character's stats. These passives are like a bandate in my eyes.
This ^ Knee-jerk reactions that will be again revised in a few months.0 -
maxjapank✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »
10% Mitigation just for slotting is just way too much.
I think its not a fair compare if you only mention "Reveal stealth enemies" and use the 6m morph of IL and CH which nobody would use if he/she really want to reveal enemies...WrathOfInnos wrote: »For comparison:
Flare:
- 10% mitigation
- 10% Magicka recovery
- Reveal stealth enemies
Inner Light
- 12% Spell Crit
- 7% Max Magicka
- 2% Magicka Recovery
- Empower for 4s after cast
- Reveal stealth enemies
Camo Hunter
- 12% Weapon Crit
- 3% Weapon + Spell Damage
- 3 ultimate gained from kills
- 5s of Minor Berserk (5% damage) after a flanking crit
- Reveal stealth enemies
Have to disagree. What makes it less op that others think is that it is a Major buff which will likely only be one-barred. There are other sources of Major protection that players get from time to time, but this cannot be stacked as it is the same buff. If we really want to talk about too much mitigation, we should point out sources of dmg reduction that aren't major or minor, sources of dmg reduction that can be stacked. This is what will lead to too much mitigation.
Finding bar space is also not as easy as some think. To be perfectly honest, I have too many better skills to use that will make me and my teammates more effective.0 -
Tommy_The_Gun✭✭✭✭✭
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I would like to believe in that and hope that some players will not use it, but, just look at other sources of Major Protection:Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »
10% Mitigation just for slotting is just way too much.
I think its not a fair compare if you only mention "Reveal stealth enemies" and use the 6m morph of IL and CH which nobody would use if he/she really want to reveal enemies...WrathOfInnos wrote: »For comparison:
Flare:
- 10% mitigation
- 10% Magicka recovery
- Reveal stealth enemies
Inner Light
- 12% Spell Crit
- 7% Max Magicka
- 2% Magicka Recovery
- Empower for 4s after cast
- Reveal stealth enemies
Camo Hunter
- 12% Weapon Crit
- 3% Weapon + Spell Damage
- 3 ultimate gained from kills
- 5s of Minor Berserk (5% damage) after a flanking crit
- Reveal stealth enemies
Have to disagree. What makes it less op that others think is that it is a Major buff which will likely only be one-barred. There are other sources of Major protection that players get from time to time, but this cannot be stacked as it is the same buff. If we really want to talk about too much mitigation, we should point out sources of dmg reduction that aren't major or minor, sources of dmg reduction that can be stacked. This is what will lead to too much mitigation.
Finding bar space is also not as easy as some think. To be perfectly honest, I have too many better skills to use that will make me and my teammates more effective.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Buffs
- Consuming Darkness - class ultimate
- Deaden Pain - Necromancer skill
- Deliberation - Psijic Order passive (that only works when you channel something)
- Rite of Passage - class ultimate
- Sleet Storm - class ultimate
Notice how almost all of those are ultimate abilities or something that is very situational and short (Deaden Pain is 2 seconds) None of the other sources give you 100% uptime. Only way to have something like that is to use 5 pcs set or WW Pack Leader. I simply can not see how some one will not use it.1 -
divnyi✭✭✭✭✭
✭Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »
I would like to believe in that and hope that some players will not use it, but, just look at other sources of Major Protection:Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »
10% Mitigation just for slotting is just way too much.
I think its not a fair compare if you only mention "Reveal stealth enemies" and use the 6m morph of IL and CH which nobody would use if he/she really want to reveal enemies...WrathOfInnos wrote: »For comparison:
Flare:
- 10% mitigation
- 10% Magicka recovery
- Reveal stealth enemies
Inner Light
- 12% Spell Crit
- 7% Max Magicka
- 2% Magicka Recovery
- Empower for 4s after cast
- Reveal stealth enemies
Camo Hunter
- 12% Weapon Crit
- 3% Weapon + Spell Damage
- 3 ultimate gained from kills
- 5s of Minor Berserk (5% damage) after a flanking crit
- Reveal stealth enemies
Have to disagree. What makes it less op that others think is that it is a Major buff which will likely only be one-barred. There are other sources of Major protection that players get from time to time, but this cannot be stacked as it is the same buff. If we really want to talk about too much mitigation, we should point out sources of dmg reduction that aren't major or minor, sources of dmg reduction that can be stacked. This is what will lead to too much mitigation.
Finding bar space is also not as easy as some think. To be perfectly honest, I have too many better skills to use that will make me and my teammates more effective.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Buffs
- Consuming Darkness - class ultimate
- Deaden Pain - Necromancer skill
- Deliberation - Psijic Order passive (that only works when you channel something)
- Rite of Passage - class ultimate
- Sleet Storm - class ultimate
Notice how almost all of those are ultimate abilities or something that is very situational and short (Deaden Pain is 2 seconds) None of the other sources give you 100% uptime. Only way to have something like that is to use 5 pcs set or WW Pack Leader. I simply can not see how some one will not use it.
They need to buff those skills then. Would make no harm doubling value at Deaden Pain. And remove Consuming Darkness and replace it with some actual ultimate.
Psijic passive is reworked to give 30% instead of major protection, to work as it did before.
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maxjapank✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »None of the other sources give you 100% uptime.
It isn't 100% uptime unless you are going to double bar it. Other sources, including some sets, can allow for a duration of major protection and it doesn't matter what bar you are on afterwards.
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Xeniph✭✭✭✭✭Had they left CP1.0 alone, there would have been no need to adjust Battlespirit.
They knee-jerk double blanket nerfed everyone's mitigation due to the last tank meta.
Effectively when they changed over to CP 2.0, they removed around 20-30% mitigation from everyone, then they "adjusted" Battlespirit all the while giving access to nearly the same level (higher in some cases) of damage.
It's like they don't play their own game and thought " Folks will balance mitigation and damage in slottables, for pvp" LOL
Obviously that's flawed thinking as the vast majority of people slot 3 damage CP's and MAYBE one defencive. There are of coarse outliers, tank builds and heavy brawlers, healers etc..
They simply need to move the defensive slottables into another tree. Maybe split them into the red and green tree. A for the love of al that is holy, adjust ONE system at a time.Here since Beta.
Characters: All of them, both Stamina and Magicka.0