Now that Frost Reach has a morph effect let’s brain storm for Flame and Shock Reach

GusTheWizard

Frost reach got a damage increase to make it a spammable I think Flame and Shock Reach should get something as well.

For Flame Reach I have a fun idea, reduce the initial hit damage a bit but while you have the Flame Reach DoT activate on a target your fire damage abilities have a 10% chance to proc blazing heat on the target, enemies afflicted with blazing heat take 5% more flame damage from you and deals flame damage equal to that of the burning status effect for 4 seconds.

I haven’t thought of something for lightning, what do you guys think they could do for the Shock Reach morph, also if you have a better idea for Flame Reach let me know.

the1andonlyskwex

Frost Reach is in a weird place now, where it does significantly more damage per cast than other DoTs. I'm not really convinced that's a good thing (or that it won't be nerfed later).

Additionally, I worry that making Frost Staff a tank weapon AND giving it a high DPS spammable is going to make it OP in PvP. It's not really going to be fun playing against frost mages who get a strong spammable/DoT hybrid and significantly improved damage mitigation from a single weapon choice.

As for the other Destructive Reach variants:

I would argue that Shock Clench is already the Shock spammable, so it definitely shouldn't get the same treatment there. I guess it would be cool if it brought back something like the old Sorcerer Implosion passive that had a chance to deal extra burst damage to low health enemies.

As for Flame Reach, I don't really have any great ideas other than making it some kind of execute too.

tonyblack

I can see that buffing flame reach to the same level would be op and it would make it new bis spammable, but why can’t shock reach get same treatment? Skill sinergize purely with staff type as it is (+10% aoe dmg, yet shock reach is single target), so changing it in a same way will open new themed options for lightning themed builds.

emilyhyoyeon

IMO it can be as simple as:

Fire reach - 60% more initial hit damage with slightly more increased cost
Shock reach - at least 80% more initial hit damage with slightly more increased cost
Frost reach - as it is on PTS, 80% more initial hit damage with increased cost

60% for fire since fire damage is already very strong because of ancient knowledge and burning

I don't really see why there needs to be any more fancy effects for each skill.
They're just meant to be optional spammables for people who want to play destruction elemental mages -- at least, that's the idea behind the frost one.

the1andonlyskwex

Ultimately, I kind of think the whole idea of making Frost Reach a "spammable" is kind of dumb. Destruction Staff is now the only weapon with two spammables, because it still has Force Shock and it's morphs, in addition to Frost Reach.

I haven't really figured out why frost mages get to be unique special snowflakes (pun intended) while all of the other damage types don't really get the same treatment.

emilyhyoyeon

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Ultimately, I kind of think the whole idea of making Frost Reach a "spammable" is kind of dumb. Destruction Staff is now the only weapon with two spammables, because it still has Force Shock and it's morphs, in addition to Frost Reach.

I haven't really figured out why frost mages get to be unique special snowflakes (pun intended) while all of the other damage types don't really get the same treatment.

Honestly I agree that putting two spammables in the destruction staff is kind of dumb. I've suggested a few times in the past making one morph of force shock to take the element of the staff type the player is using, instead of split between the 3 elements, as a solution to the elemental spammable issue. No one seemed to like that idea though.


The special treatment comes from the fact that ice destruction magic is damage-based magic like the other two destruction elements, but it was changed to be a magicka tanking option despite there already being magic-based tanking tools in the lore/previous games, so now ZOS is trying to balance it/make it work for tanks and for DDs.

This wouldn't be a problem now if ZOS made a real magicka tanking staff in the past when people asked for it instead of reworking frost in a way that isn't consistent with the rest of the TES games for no reason other than not wanting to dedicate the time to making another magicka weapon.

the1andonlyskwex

emilyhyoyeon wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Ultimately, I kind of think the whole idea of making Frost Reach a "spammable" is kind of dumb. Destruction Staff is now the only weapon with two spammables, because it still has Force Shock and it's morphs, in addition to Frost Reach.

I haven't really figured out why frost mages get to be unique special snowflakes (pun intended) while all of the other damage types don't really get the same treatment.

Honestly I agree that putting two spammables in the destruction staff is kind of dumb. I've suggested a few times in the past making one morph of force shock to take the element of the staff type the player is using, instead of split between the 3 elements, as a solution to the elemental spammable issue. No one seemed to like that idea though.


The special treatment comes from the fact that ice destruction magic is damage-based magic like the other two destruction elements, but it was changed to be a magicka tanking option despite there already being magic-based tanking tools in the lore/previous games, so now ZOS is trying to balance it/make it work for tanks and for DDs.

This wouldn't be a problem now if ZOS made a real magicka tanking staff in the past when people asked for it instead of reworking frost in a way that isn't consistent with the rest of the TES games for no reason other than not wanting to dedicate the time to making another magicka weapon.

The thing is that almost no damage types have dedicated spammables, regardless of whether they're DPS-centric or not. Nothing was preventing frost wardens from using Force Shock or Screaming Cliff Racer other than a bizarre insistence on damage type purity (which is otherwise only available to magDKs, so it's not like frostDen is missing out on something everyone else already has).

emilyhyoyeon

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

emilyhyoyeon wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Ultimately, I kind of think the whole idea of making Frost Reach a "spammable" is kind of dumb. Destruction Staff is now the only weapon with two spammables, because it still has Force Shock and it's morphs, in addition to Frost Reach.

I haven't really figured out why frost mages get to be unique special snowflakes (pun intended) while all of the other damage types don't really get the same treatment.

Honestly I agree that putting two spammables in the destruction staff is kind of dumb. I've suggested a few times in the past making one morph of force shock to take the element of the staff type the player is using, instead of split between the 3 elements, as a solution to the elemental spammable issue. No one seemed to like that idea though.


The special treatment comes from the fact that ice destruction magic is damage-based magic like the other two destruction elements, but it was changed to be a magicka tanking option despite there already being magic-based tanking tools in the lore/previous games, so now ZOS is trying to balance it/make it work for tanks and for DDs.

This wouldn't be a problem now if ZOS made a real magicka tanking staff in the past when people asked for it instead of reworking frost in a way that isn't consistent with the rest of the TES games for no reason other than not wanting to dedicate the time to making another magicka weapon.

The thing is that almost no damage types have dedicated spammables, regardless of whether they're DPS-centric or not. Nothing was preventing frost wardens from using Force Shock or Screaming Cliff Racer other than a bizarre insistence on damage type purity (which is otherwise only available to magDKs, so it's not like frostDen is missing out on something everyone else already has).

Fire has DK leash which, generally with people who are concerned with playing elemental mages, people consider an elemental spammable. But anyway, a lot of people who are concerned with closing the gap between the damage of the elemental types do want open-class spammables for each element.

Again, ice is getting special treatment on PTS right now because of it being the worst of the three elements in terms of damage by far (especially before brittle or if you don't consider brittle because it's a support buff that any elemental mage can benefit from in non solo content), pretty much exclusively due to the ancient knowledge passive. Fire staff has +8% (+10% on PTS) damage to ALL single target damage. AND enough people have been complaining about this for years. So it's getting special treatment. Because people have been asking for it. For years.

The focus on playing elemental mages is really just for RP purposes (and the destruction element gap closing for consistency with the rest of the franchise). If you don't care about RP, yeah it's bizarre.

Froil

What about making Shock Reach have an AoE component? It still remains a single target ability, but when it hits it also releases a burst dealing additional damage to the main target and to enemies around it.
For Flame Reach, make it more DoT focused and make the DoT stack a bit (3 stacks?) At least one tick would happen after the GCD so you can still use it as a spammable with some additional damage after.

YandereGirlfriend

Shock Reach just needs to be brought up to the ranged spammable standard - just as Frost Reach has. It doesn't need to do anything more flashy than that.

Oh, and increase the range of Shock Clench because it is not a CC ability and thus it should not be bound to CC ability range limitations.

Stx

Force pulse should have just been fully one element depending on your staff just like all the other skills in the tree. One morph could keep the triple element effect, one morph could be a dedicated spammable for each element type so non DKs can have a fire spammable, wardens can have their ice spammable etc.

universal_wrath

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Frost Reach is in a weird place now, where it does significantly more damage per cast than other DoTs. I'm not really convinced that's a good thing (or that it won't be nerfed later).

Additionally, I worry that making Frost Staff a tank weapon AND giving it a high DPS spammable is going to make it OP in PvP. It's not really going to be fun playing against frost mages who get a strong spammable/DoT hybrid and significantly improved damage mitigation from a single weapon choice.

As for the other Destructive Reach variants:

I would argue that Shock Clench is already the Shock spammable, so it definitely shouldn't get the same treatment there. I guess it would be cool if it brought back something like the old Sorcerer Implosion passive that had a chance to deal extra burst damage to low health enemies.

As for Flame Reach, I don't really have any great ideas other than making it some kind of execute too.

Shock clunchhad been double nerfed few patches ag9. First thst its damage has been reduced. Sec9nd nerf was how master destro worked as ut addrd abouy 1500 dmg to destructive touch and its morphs, it made lighting cluch very strong. Now zos changrd destro master and nerfed lightning clunch damage.

Excelsus

Id like to see shock reach lose the dot and do spammable level damage then bounce to up to 2 additional enemies for more damage on each hit. This would give it a little zerg buster power in pvp and give sorcs/shock mages a good cleave utility that follows the usual fantasy trope of chain lightning.