Should base Crit Chance be increased?

Narvuntien

I am like many medium armour users that losing crit when it is so important to PVE damage will make stamina dps disappear or swap to strange medium/light set ups which limit set usage.
Crit chance is effectively unimportant in PVP but core to PVE making it one of the primary ways to separate PVP and PVE.

I remember base crit chance did get nerfed a few patches back perhaps that should be undone with the changes to medium armor.
Alternatively, you can buff the Crit chance star in the CP.

It is true it doesn't make sense to have both light and medium have Crit chance so perhaps just removing it from armor passives completely and placing it as a shared base stat might be better way to handle it.

Then give crit damage to medium (melee should do more damage) and penetration to light. Maybe replace the crit chance on light with spell damage.

DrSlaughtr

Yes. People are babies. Increase crit chance. Buff impen sightly for those who are mad about NBs.

Phaedryn

Crit chance was reduced specifically to *reduce* PvE DPS. It was intentional as it had been stated, repeatedly, that DPS was so high it was allowing people to skip mechanics entirely, which wasn't the intent.

In short, I do not expect an increase in Crit. Quite the opposite of the changes currently proposed increase overall DPS much. I wouldn't be surprised to see Crit chance further reduced.

SaintSubwayy

Well yes and no....

Yes in the terms of making other sets more viable, since every Mag DD is forced to run MS or Medusa.

No in the Terms, that the DDs will keep MS or Medusa and just switch Mundus to Shadow since they^re sitting at such a High critchance anyways.

So its not just a simple matter of increasing cirtchance. And it has to be solved with more drastic changes overall so buildvariety can become a bit wder again. (or atleast not so much punishing, when not running MS or Medusa)

Some suggestions:
Increase Base Critchance up to 20%
Decrease Critdmg Modifiers form CP, Race, Class etc
Increase Critchance on Setbonis
Increase values of Mudusstones

Now increasing Critbonis on sets or the Thief Mundus might seem counterintuitive, however if the Critdmg Modifiers would be lowered, and your critical strike Chance is very high (when running MS & Thief), other sets might be a better fit, due to them giving more SD which may be more valuable then increasing your critchance.

However there will once again always be a new BiS Setup, it might just not be Thief & MS / Medusa anymore ^^

YandereGirlfriend

There need to be more sources of Critical Resistance via buffs and debuffs.

Every source of Critical Damage stacking:

Minor Force
Major Force
Minor Brittle
Major Brittle (when it arrives)

should be balanced out with an equal magnitude Critical Resistance buff.

Nowadays though, with the insane mitigation increase slated for Battle Spirit to arrive in the next patch... anything that reduces damage is a bad idea. Players will need all hands on deck in the damage department to kill any above-average player next patch.

Everest_Lionheart

Phaedryn wrote: »

Crit chance was reduced specifically to *reduce* PvE DPS. It was intentional as it had been stated, repeatedly, that DPS was so high it was allowing people to skip mechanics entirely, which wasn't the intent.

In short, I do not expect an increase in Crit. Quite the opposite of the changes currently proposed increase overall DPS much. I wouldn't be surprised to see Crit chance further reduced.

Except it didn’t reduce the damage at all. Further to that effect though the one shot mechs are still the same one shot mechs and that’s where most people die. The devs have also adjusted to add mechs where straight burn will get you killed. It’s a good balance to be honest.

Where we got hurt the most was the first iteration of CP2.0 and armor passive changes when we lost all of our mit which made some of the things we were able to survive before become extra one shot mechs. When they cut CP passives in half and buffed preparation they may have overturned mit slightly, but the one shots are still the one shots.

Groups aren’t necessarily skipping mechanics other than a very select few. Most groups are limiting the deaths to the actual mechs giving them more time on target which equates to more DPS which equals less repetition of mechs. That’s the key to it all, limit the mistakes, limit the deaths and try to get out of the fight dealing with the least mechs possible.

Milli_Rabbit

Narvuntien wrote: »

I am like many medium armour users that losing crit when it is so important to PVE damage will make stamina dps disappear or swap to strange medium/light set ups which limit set usage.
Crit chance is effectively unimportant in PVP but core to PVE making it one of the primary ways to separate PVP and PVE.

I remember base crit chance did get nerfed a few patches back perhaps that should be undone with the changes to medium armor.
Alternatively, you can buff the Crit chance star in the CP.

It is true it doesn't make sense to have both light and medium have Crit chance so perhaps just removing it from armor passives completely and placing it as a shared base stat might be better way to handle it.

Then give crit damage to medium (melee should do more damage) and penetration to light. Maybe replace the crit chance on light with spell damage.

No, the damage is already too high. Stamina toons on PTS are hitting 112k in full 7 medium armor. Just use Advancing Yokeda.

yoo_mr_white

Milli_Rabbit wrote: »

Narvuntien wrote: »

I am like many medium armour users that losing crit when it is so important to PVE damage will make stamina dps disappear or swap to strange medium/light set ups which limit set usage.
Crit chance is effectively unimportant in PVP but core to PVE making it one of the primary ways to separate PVP and PVE.

I remember base crit chance did get nerfed a few patches back perhaps that should be undone with the changes to medium armor.
Alternatively, you can buff the Crit chance star in the CP.

It is true it doesn't make sense to have both light and medium have Crit chance so perhaps just removing it from armor passives completely and placing it as a shared base stat might be better way to handle it.

Then give crit damage to medium (melee should do more damage) and penetration to light. Maybe replace the crit chance on light with spell damage.

No, the damage is already too high. Stamina toons on PTS are hitting 112k in full 7 medium armor. Just use Advancing Yokeda.

So one heavy set is hitting higher than the rest big whoop. I'm pretty sure all other sets hit lower.

Easy fix to this problem is to leave the crit chance on medium and light armour this way Stam still has build diversity. It's not like even if they are hitting 112k people will start snubbing mag players for them.

NeillMcAttack

I would much rather it was removed tbh, and adjust sources of crit to balance the difference. Building for crit is not rewarding in PvP. But since this is mostly a PvE thread I will just say that, with everyone's damage increasing next patch, this is really a non-issue there!

Milli_Rabbit

yoo_mr_white wrote: »

Milli_Rabbit wrote: »

Narvuntien wrote: »

I am like many medium armour users that losing crit when it is so important to PVE damage will make stamina dps disappear or swap to strange medium/light set ups which limit set usage.
Crit chance is effectively unimportant in PVP but core to PVE making it one of the primary ways to separate PVP and PVE.

I remember base crit chance did get nerfed a few patches back perhaps that should be undone with the changes to medium armor.
Alternatively, you can buff the Crit chance star in the CP.

It is true it doesn't make sense to have both light and medium have Crit chance so perhaps just removing it from armor passives completely and placing it as a shared base stat might be better way to handle it.

Then give crit damage to medium (melee should do more damage) and penetration to light. Maybe replace the crit chance on light with spell damage.

No, the damage is already too high. Stamina toons on PTS are hitting 112k in full 7 medium armor. Just use Advancing Yokeda.

So one heavy set is hitting higher than the rest big whoop. I'm pretty sure all other sets hit lower.

Easy fix to this problem is to leave the crit chance on medium and light armour this way Stam still has build diversity. It's not like even if they are hitting 112k people will start snubbing mag players for them.

Its just not a problem, though, that I have seen from people actually testing the PTS. The problem with stam is still the same: Too many support sets.

yoo_mr_white

Milli_Rabbit wrote: »

yoo_mr_white wrote: »

Milli_Rabbit wrote: »

Narvuntien wrote: »

I am like many medium armour users that losing crit when it is so important to PVE damage will make stamina dps disappear or swap to strange medium/light set ups which limit set usage.
Crit chance is effectively unimportant in PVP but core to PVE making it one of the primary ways to separate PVP and PVE.

I remember base crit chance did get nerfed a few patches back perhaps that should be undone with the changes to medium armor.
Alternatively, you can buff the Crit chance star in the CP.

It is true it doesn't make sense to have both light and medium have Crit chance so perhaps just removing it from armor passives completely and placing it as a shared base stat might be better way to handle it.

Then give crit damage to medium (melee should do more damage) and penetration to light. Maybe replace the crit chance on light with spell damage.

No, the damage is already too high. Stamina toons on PTS are hitting 112k in full 7 medium armor. Just use Advancing Yokeda.

So one heavy set is hitting higher than the rest big whoop. I'm pretty sure all other sets hit lower.

Easy fix to this problem is to leave the crit chance on medium and light armour this way Stam still has build diversity. It's not like even if they are hitting 112k people will start snubbing mag players for them.

Its just not a problem, though, that I have seen from people actually testing the PTS. The problem with stam is still the same: Too many support sets.

I've seen a few people say everything but AY hits lower on dummy. Which u could definitely see considering kinras doesn't give much crit. Still I suppose we should give it time, it just seems head scratching to give la the two superior offensive stats when they already have the best one.

the1andonlyskwex

The change from 1% crit chance to 2% crit damage per piece is a buff to medium armor, not a nerf. Additionally, the hybridization of armor passives makes it possible to slot 1-2 pieces of light armor if you need more penetration (which medium armor builds can't get at all on live) or if you want to mitigate the loss of crit chance.

On PTS compared to live, a 6/1 MA/LA build is sacrificing 5% crit chance for 12% crit damage and 939 penetration, which seems like a pretty obvious buff to me (unless your crit chance is already unusually low).

Pevey

Milli_Rabbit wrote: »

No, the damage is already too high. Stamina toons on PTS are hitting 112k in full 7 medium armor. Just use Advancing Yokeda.

And yet, stamina dps is still unwelcome in vet trials for a reason. That DPS is not realistic in a real combat environment, and it is set to be further nerfed with the changes to med armor. This will widen the gap that already exists between mag and stam in PVE dps.

L_Nici

Its very bad for PvP and PvE to kill mediums critchance. In PvP especially for classes that use Critchance like Stamsorc, the rest runs Malacath anyway which gets passively buffed even more now. While NBs can be very happy now, they will take that Critdamage with delight, because they can crit on demand. On my Stamblade I would have 134% Critdamage on a Bosmer with 4 Divine, 3 Well fitted and still retain 43% Critchance via Class passives. While my Stamsorc will fall below 20% Critchance unless I use an entire 5 piece like Leviathan to get up to 34% (that is even with camouflaged hunter slotted...) thats absolutely not worth it anymore, so Critsurge for example is a dead skill now.
Its so hard already to get Critchance on any Stamina Class aside NBs to make it even harder is bad for PvP and PvE and the class that did deal that insane damage over the past weeks gets even buffed. In PvE Stamina is already *** compared to Magicka and is not even worth leveling by now anymore, because no one will want you near their group because you would even lower the group DPS...

Narvuntien

I finally got around to testing my DPS.

Stam warden.
Reliquin, AY, selenes and Perfected Maelstrom Bow. Warrior stone.

I hadn't done it on live in a bit and turns out Perfected Maelstrom Bow boosted my DPS by 3K.
To 67K, I am no top tier dps

On PTS 66K err okay not much change so not losing a ton of damage there.

L_Nici

@Narvuntien 66k is about half the DPS that Magicka Classes do. So you just have proven how wide the gap to Stamina already is, and that nerfing Stamina is a pretty bad move.

Kusto

L_Nici wrote: »

@Narvuntien 66k is about half the DPS that Magicka Classes do. So you just have proven how wide the gap to Stamina already is, and that nerfing Stamina is a pretty bad move.

I would like to see a 132k mag parse lol.

He's just not experienced. I also play stamden and hit 104k, some even 120k.
Stam parses are still higher than mag. In content it's the opposite tho, mainly thanks to no support and lower pen. Also its difficult to stay in melee range in some fights. Thankfully theres this new tank set (forgot the name) from the new dungeons, that will be meta providing needed pen for stam.

Narvuntien

I would encourage you to test yourself to see the difference.

I don't compare my DPS to other people's, for starters I have 300 ping, using realistic food (dubious throne) and combat metrics is my only addon.

My Mag dps pass (MagDK, Sun, BSW, Grothdar) is 54K