Acknowledge Mag DK's burst damage. Maybe make some changes next major update

Veg

I know that the class is kinda made for DoT's but those don't count for jack in pvp. The extra damage reduction is making this class much worse off than the other classes because of the already low burst damage that mag DK's have.

Its to the point where a tanky necro has more burst damage than a glass canon mag DK. I can get burning embers to 20k damage on the tooltip and then do 400 damage per second on target. This just isn't working.

I understand that Mag DK's are not horribly underperforming in PVE dps but that should not be the only reason to make class changes... kinda sad that it seems to be like that

Elo106

I am timing flames of oblivion, deepbreath with my stacked whip and still dealing less damage than a stamcro just timing dizzy with blast bones. Plus they get defile.

Give us a better delayed damage, fix the sustain issues, add major expedition to wings or give us some form of an execute.
Anything would be awesome at this point.

If classic executes dont fit the class make one that increases dots depending on the health of the target or make dots explode for damage at execute threshold.

robpr

Corrosive Armor morph now also makes direct damage to ignore spell resistance as well, so there is possibility for a window of juicy whips. 200 ult though for 10s of boost with very crappy ult gen passive.

YandereGirlfriend

robpr wrote: »

Corrosive Armor morph now also makes direct damage to ignore spell resistance as well, so there is possibility for a window of juicy whips. 200 ult though for 10s of boost with very crappy ult gen passive.

But Corrosive only provides Physical Penetration which would be useless for all magDK skills. You would have to use Onslaught instead.

(Unless they changed this in today's notes, in which case ignore this comment.)

robpr

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

robpr wrote: »

Corrosive Armor morph now also makes direct damage to ignore spell resistance as well, so there is possibility for a window of juicy whips. 200 ult though for 10s of boost with very crappy ult gen passive.

But Corrosive only provides Physical Penetration which would be useless for all magDK skills. You would have to use Onslaught instead.

(Unless they changed this in today's notes, in which case ignore this comment.)

It does on live right now, but on PTS both the tooltip and when I checked the damage it ignored the spell resistance too, Gina forgot to add it to natch potes.

Veg

Elo106 wrote: »

I am timing flames of oblivion, deepbreath with my stacked whip and still dealing less damage than a stamcro just timing dizzy with blast bones. Plus they get defile.

Give us a better delayed damage, fix the sustain issues, add major expedition to wings or give us some form of an execute.
Anything would be awesome at this point.

If classic executes dont fit the class make one that increases dots depending on the health of the target or make dots explode for damage at execute threshold.

Yeah... I wouldn't bother with deep breath mate lol

clearly

"magdk has low damage"

Veg

clearly wrote: »

"magdk has low damage"

You bring a rather compelling argument indeed. Maybe with more frogs you'll have me convinced on mag DK's wonderous burst damage

clearly

Veg wrote: »

clearly wrote: »

"magdk has low damage"

You bring a rather compelling argument indeed. Maybe with more frogs you'll have me convinced on mag DK's wonderous burst damage

i'll the first to ask for dk buffs but trust me, the only thing that works on dk is damage on the magicka spec. other than that, it's the class with the worst defence and the worst sustain.

Alucardo

Personally I think mdk damage is just fine. What I would like to see is a decrease in their skill costs though.

YandereGirlfriend

robpr wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

robpr wrote: »

Corrosive Armor morph now also makes direct damage to ignore spell resistance as well, so there is possibility for a window of juicy whips. 200 ult though for 10s of boost with very crappy ult gen passive.

But Corrosive only provides Physical Penetration which would be useless for all magDK skills. You would have to use Onslaught instead.

(Unless they changed this in today's notes, in which case ignore this comment.)

It does on live right now, but on PTS both the tooltip and when I checked the damage it ignored the spell resistance too, Gina forgot to add it to natch potes.

Well now, that IS interesting!

I remember asking for that change aeons ago (as, I am sure, were many others) - perhaps someone on the dev team really does pay attention to the forums.

Beavisaur13

Give Us Minor sorcery on Mountains blessing, and reduced some of our skill costs. There's no bleeping reason for ash cloud to cost almost 6k mag.

Bl4ckR3alm93

clearly wrote: »

Veg wrote: »

clearly wrote: »

"magdk has low damage"

You bring a rather compelling argument indeed. Maybe with more frogs you'll have me convinced on mag DK's wonderous burst damage

i'll the first to ask for dk buffs but trust me, the only thing that works on dk is damage on the magicka spec. other than that, it's the class with the worst defence and the worst sustain.

Definitely not. The buffs are more for Stamina DK and Tanks. I mained MagDK for 3 years and just recently changed to StamDK and its a huge difference actually. You can even go on youtube and other threads to see the numbers. Reason being because MagDK has no access to executes no matter what while StamDk has access to atleast 2 executes. Executioner and Poison Injection both can be used for StamDK as an execute and a dot execute. MagDK actually is by far the worse for PVE both in damage and sustain. StamDK gets minor Brutality passively through Earthern Heart while MagDK can not get minor sorcery passively

clearly

Bl4ckR3alm93 wrote: »

clearly wrote: »

Veg wrote: »

clearly wrote: »

"magdk has low damage"

You bring a rather compelling argument indeed. Maybe with more frogs you'll have me convinced on mag DK's wonderous burst damage

i'll the first to ask for dk buffs but trust me, the only thing that works on dk is damage on the magicka spec. other than that, it's the class with the worst defence and the worst sustain.

Definitely not. The buffs are more for Stamina DK and Tanks. I mained MagDK for 3 years and just recently changed to StamDK and its a huge difference actually. You can even go on youtube and other threads to see the numbers. Reason being because MagDK has no access to executes no matter what while StamDk has access to atleast 2 executes. Executioner and Poison Injection both can be used for StamDK as an execute and a dot execute. MagDK actually is by far the worse for PVE both in damage and sustain

sir this is a pvp thread

Bl4ckR3alm93

clearly wrote: »

Bl4ckR3alm93 wrote: »

clearly wrote: »

Veg wrote: »

clearly wrote: »

"magdk has low damage"

You bring a rather compelling argument indeed. Maybe with more frogs you'll have me convinced on mag DK's wonderous burst damage

i'll the first to ask for dk buffs but trust me, the only thing that works on dk is damage on the magicka spec. other than that, it's the class with the worst defence and the worst sustain.

Definitely not. The buffs are more for Stamina DK and Tanks. I mained MagDK for 3 years and just recently changed to StamDK and its a huge difference actually. You can even go on youtube and other threads to see the numbers. Reason being because MagDK has no access to executes no matter what while StamDk has access to atleast 2 executes. Executioner and Poison Injection both can be used for StamDK as an execute and a dot execute. MagDK actually is by far the worse for PVE both in damage and sustain

sir this is a pvp thread

ok and the arguments still apply regardless for PVE and PVP actually. Stamina dominates PVP and StamDK still get minor brutality and other great moves plus executes lol. MagDK still is at the bottom and theres also numbers on youtute and other threads for PVP about this

clearly

Bl4ckR3alm93 wrote: »

clearly wrote: »

Bl4ckR3alm93 wrote: »

clearly wrote: »

Veg wrote: »

clearly wrote: »

"magdk has low damage"

You bring a rather compelling argument indeed. Maybe with more frogs you'll have me convinced on mag DK's wonderous burst damage

i'll the first to ask for dk buffs but trust me, the only thing that works on dk is damage on the magicka spec. other than that, it's the class with the worst defence and the worst sustain.

Definitely not. The buffs are more for Stamina DK and Tanks. I mained MagDK for 3 years and just recently changed to StamDK and its a huge difference actually. You can even go on youtube and other threads to see the numbers. Reason being because MagDK has no access to executes no matter what while StamDk has access to atleast 2 executes. Executioner and Poison Injection both can be used for StamDK as an execute and a dot execute. MagDK actually is by far the worse for PVE both in damage and sustain

sir this is a pvp thread

ok and the arguments still apply regardless for PVE and PVP actually. Stamina dominates PVP and StamDK still get minor brutality and other great moves plus executes lol. MagDK still is at the bottom and theres also numbers on youtute and other threads for PVP about this

except it doesn't apply? stamdk cannot run bow, it crutches on snb for defence, and even if it did, there is no room for poison injection (which is a terrible skill).

magdk on the other hand has some of the highest damage in pvp, both single target and aoe, which is only held back by its terrible sustain and lack of mitigation/healing over time. in fact inhale is magdk's best tool when outnumbered as it's both a burst heal and a delayed burst. literally a built in crimson which you can boost to very high numbers when building for it (varen's legacy). the rest of it's aoe kit is obvious: talons, engulfing (10% vulnerability is way better than minor brutality by the way) and leap or standard.

so while yes dots usually for around 800 per 2s (400 dps), what happens if you stack 4 or 5 of them? free 2k dps, which is insane in duels. it also has the best stun in the game (fossilize/shatter rocks) and stacked whip can reach absurdly high numbers (8k on vamp3 necro at around 40% hp). and fwiw 800 ticks is what skills that are literally only dots hit for (debilitate, entropy, consuming trap), while the dk dots deal that much while also having an initial hit from half to two thirds of a spammable, which helps with pressure.

if you actually think stamdk is better than magdk in pvp, then maybe you need to play against good players and not pveers that get one shot by uppercut + leap.

really the problem with the class is its lack of defence which can be solved in 1v1 by playing extremely aggressively on magdk, not so much on stamdk. (and don't think about larger unless "smallscale")

HeroOfNone

The major issue for flame dks is purge and purify, and subsequently sets like curse eater. Flame dk can feel good in sub-50 campaigns, but as soon as you hit the big leagues its feast or famine.

If dks had abilities that granted spell/weapon damage or gave back resources if they were purged prematurely, I think that might help. I find it frustrating though that they want to increase the TTK but slower dot and debuff builds are constantly shut down with one cast of an ability.

ajkb78

Veg wrote: »

I know that the class is kinda made for DoT's but those don't count for jack in pvp. The extra damage reduction is making this class much worse off than the other classes because of the already low burst damage that mag DK's have.

Its to the point where a tanky necro has more burst damage than a glass canon mag DK. I can get burning embers to 20k damage on the tooltip and then do 400 damage per second on target. This just isn't working.

I understand that Mag DK's are not horribly underperforming in PVE dps but that should not be the only reason to make class changes... kinda sad that it seems to be like that

Except Mag DKs pretty much *are* horribly underperforming in pve right now. Taking a random bit of content from esologs, Yolna hard mode, and the 10th best score to eliminate outliers, DK comes in at 89k, sorc comes in at 98k, magblade 97k, magcro 97k, magden 96k, magplar 82k. Or looking at parsers, Liko's DK gets 101k on the dummy, his sorc gets 107k. Given magdks are by design a melee magicka class they should have raw damage more like a stam toon's level to account for having to move out of range for mechanics. They could do with around a 8-10% overall buff to damage and some sustain improvements (most of the people I know who do play one go Breton just for tolerable sustain, foregoing another 2% DPS or thereabouts). They're in a terrible spot. (And I'm not just a whining DK player, I do have one but I also have sorc, blade, necro and warden DDs, I just think it's a shame my DK never gets an outing.)

lucky_Sage

[snip] dks they wont ever be put on par with other classes tool kits. they have no mobility no defense in there tool kit. no execute ,weak dots. all they have is leap and whip, gina even said they clipped wings and is no longer needed for force pulse rule set [snip]

[edited for bashing]

Veg

lucky_Sage wrote: »

[snip] dks they wont ever be put on par with other classes tool kits. they have no mobility no defense in there tool kit. no execute ,weak dots. all they have is leap and whip, gina even said they clipped wings and is no longer needed for force pulse rule set [snip]

That was pretty harsh lol

gariondavey

clearly wrote: »

Bl4ckR3alm93 wrote: »

clearly wrote: »

Veg wrote: »

clearly wrote: »

"magdk has low damage"

You bring a rather compelling argument indeed. Maybe with more frogs you'll have me convinced on mag DK's wonderous burst damage

i'll the first to ask for dk buffs but trust me, the only thing that works on dk is damage on the magicka spec. other than that, it's the class with the worst defence and the worst sustain.

Definitely not. The buffs are more for Stamina DK and Tanks. I mained MagDK for 3 years and just recently changed to StamDK and its a huge difference actually. You can even go on youtube and other threads to see the numbers. Reason being because MagDK has no access to executes no matter what while StamDk has access to atleast 2 executes. Executioner and Poison Injection both can be used for StamDK as an execute and a dot execute. MagDK actually is by far the worse for PVE both in damage and sustain

sir this is a pvp thread

Sir, this is a Wendy's

xHotguy6pack

Mag dks burst damage is just fine. If you're having trouble dealing burst damage it's a L2P issue or a build issue. I hit constant 10k leaps and molten whips. (Even have a clip hitting a 31k leap).The best way to play Mag DK is to play aggressive. If you're not an aggressive player then don't play Mag DK. The only things that need to be updated on the DK would be chains, cauterize and a few skills get a cost reduction.

WaltherCarraway

Glass cannon potato smasher ok

Jameson18

I've always been fine with the damage. I understand the paper/rock/scissors to a degree with all my dots getting stripped. The problem is, due to that and ability costs in general, there is no sustain.

Combustion is a joke when all of your skills still cost 3300-3900 magicka depending on your build. As a breton, without vampire, with 3-5 pieces of light. That's just nuts. My other mag toons can spam for days. When I buff myself and move in with my engagement skills, I'm already down 50% of my mag with a 30k+ pool. (Talking pvp here btw.)

the1andonlyskwex

Jameson18 wrote: »

I've always been fine with the damage. I understand the paper/rock/scissors to a degree with all my dots getting stripped. The problem is, due to that and ability costs in general, there is no sustain.

Combustion is a joke when all of your skills still cost 3300-3900 magicka depending on your build. As a breton, without vampire, with 3-5 pieces of light. That's just nuts. My other mag toons can spam for days. When I buff myself and move in with my engagement skills, I'm already down 50% of my mag with a 30k+ pool. (Talking pvp here btw.)

While I wouldn't turn down a proper execute, sustain is definitely the main magDK problem. My magDK is my only character who needs to run a sustain set (lich) and the atronach mundus just to feel usable. Just being able to trade one of those for something else would be a huge improvement.

StaticWave

On live a full dmg magdk in malacath hits my 28k resistance stamsorc for 9-10k molten whips and 4-5k flames of oblivion. I also have duelist rebuff CP slotted. They can pretty much 1 shot me if they time those with leap, and if I don't die then the dots will finish me off.

On PTS a full dmg necro with 7k weapon dmg and 29k pen in malacath does around 5.7k blastbones to my 24k armor stamsorc with evasion...

Veg

StaticWave wrote: »

On live a full dmg magdk in malacath hits my 28k resistance stamsorc for 9-10k molten whips and 4-5k flames of oblivion. I also have duelist rebuff CP slotted. They can pretty much 1 shot me if they time those with leap, and if I don't die then the dots will finish me off.

On PTS a full dmg necro with 7k weapon dmg and 29k pen in malacath does around 5.7k blastbones to my 24k armor stamsorc with evasion...

I'm calling bs on that. Blast bones does more damage than whip. Plain and simple.

WaltherCarraway

full dmg mdk* = piercearmor / hurricane, dizzy, crystal weapon, dawnbreaker, 2h /dw execute on his/her death recap

Alchimiste1

ah yes magdk has such low damage on live.

thats why it does 5k+ dps and hits 9k molten whips

StaticWave

Veg wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

On live a full dmg magdk in malacath hits my 28k resistance stamsorc for 9-10k molten whips and 4-5k flames of oblivion. I also have duelist rebuff CP slotted. They can pretty much 1 shot me if they time those with leap, and if I don't die then the dots will finish me off.

On PTS a full dmg necro with 7k weapon dmg and 29k pen in malacath does around 5.7k blastbones to my 24k armor stamsorc with evasion...

I'm calling bs on that. Blast bones does more damage than whip. Plain and simple.

Do you want me to screenshot it to you? You mentioned a full dmg magdk so I gave you the numbers of what I took

WaltherCarraway

before getting destroyed by playstyles that utilize class purge skills.